If Pep fails to win the FA Cup, it will be such an underwhelming first season for him.
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
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Pep the doping god is back at it again i see. His players need top dope more here, in Spain it was too easy.
Glad this is being highlighted by people with genuine insight.
I've always maintained that the heavy lifting at Barcelona was done by Rijkaard. Guardiola essentially inherited a champions league winning team with Xavi, Inesta & Messi as emerging talents. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_UEFA_Champions_League_Final). Not that hard to take that platform and become what they became.
Mancini comments sound just like @Wumminator
I don't think he is, but don't let the Pep fanboys on here hear any of that otherwise Mancini will be labelled a PL fanboy.
He makes fair and good points. However IMO its far too early to judge Pep, lets see how he does next season.
Mancini IS a PL fanboy
You should've heard some of the stuff he said at inter. Mental
He's not entirely wrong, though as always it's kind of a lazy argument. I mean sure Spain might be a two horse race(well, actually 3 horse race in 2 of the last 4 seasons), but it's a two horse race where you can't make mistakes. It also doesn't really take 4 of the last 5 premier league title races into account
@sammsky1 what does Rijkaard have to do with Guardiola?
Guardiola inherited Rijkarad's fully developed squad at Barcelona, a year or so after they had won the Champions League.
2 years after the CL, but what does Rijkaard have to with that? That wasn't Rijkaard's squad. Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Puyol were all academy products. Pique was signed back that summer, and Busquets and Pedro were brought up to the first team that season by Guardiola's own decision
I mean, if you want to consider that Rijkaard's squad, we might as well say that that was Cruijff's squad and all the managers who came after him and had success have him to thank for that. Which, actually, is precisely what they think in Barcelona
Not at all. Barcelona were in a mess when Rijkaard took over. He built his team from scratch including developing young versions of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. He provided the foundations and blueprint which Guardiola simply took to fruition.
Thats how I saw it at the time. Barcelona and Pep Fan boys have rewritten history because Pep is one of their own so makes a better story.
See, you look at it from the perspective of a british fan. Rijkaard did not build anything. Laporta did. Barcelona have been playing in largely the same way since Cruijff rebuilt the club in his image in the early 90s. Every coach they hire, they hire because his philosophy fits with theirs, that is to say, Cruijff's. Van Gaal was the only guy actually given power to build a team himself in the late 90s, back when they had to rebuild after the end of the Cruijff era. Since him, it's always been the board's job. Rijkaard got the players that came out of the academy and the players Laporta signed and coached them to great success using the same style of football the club had been playing under several managers since 1988.
Guardiola did the same
I'm surprised how bad he really spent about 150 mil in the last summer. I always thought that he had a good eye in the market, but this time around he got it horribly wrong.
He knew what he was getting himself into with Gundogan, an unkown kid from Brazil, a keeper who's acting mental on the field, a boy who he's unable to teach how to defend properly, an average Spanish attacker and a young German kid who needed a lot of time to play ok.
Didn't see that one coming, sure, he will throw as much as he can so it hopefully for him will stick, but he's been a bit exposed, isn't he? Getting spanked by Monaco, chanceless in the league and playing -after a brilliant start, average football with a highly talented squad must be so disappointing for him.
I really wonder for whom he'll go in the summer. Anything less than 100 mil and there's no chance that he'll take them to the next level. I was happy that we didn't go for him and he isn't doing himself any favours to think differently.
He knew what he was getting himself into with Gundogan, an unkown kid from Brazil, a keeper who's acting mental on the field, a boy who he's unable to teach how to defend properly, an average Spanish attacker and a young German kid who needed a lot of time to play ok.
Didn't see that one coming, sure, he will throw as much as he can so it hopefully for him will stick, but he's been a bit exposed, isn't he? Getting spanked by Monaco, chanceless in the league and playing -after a brilliant start, average football with a highly talented squad must be so disappointing for him.
I really wonder for whom he'll go in the summer. Anything less than 100 mil and there's no chance that he'll take them to the next level. I was happy that we didn't go for him and he isn't doing himself any favours to think differently.
Xavi was 28 to be fair.
But you are right about them being a bit of a mess, finishing 18 points behind a pretty average Real and 10 points behind Villarreal.
Xavi was 28 when Rijkaard took over? Never knew that! Would it be fair to say that he reached his peak levels under Rijkaard?
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Ok - that makes sense. I remember when Laporte/Riykaard was ridiculed for tryng to sign Beckham because they were not worthy of such a player and he joined Madrid instead.
I don't have any issues with Guardioa except those who think he is some kind of managerial guru. He's not at all: he has lucked himself into a niche identity of being able to organise highly motivated and talented players.
He is nothing compared to Ferguson, Mourinho, a young Wenger who have repeatedly built teams from scratch. I doubt he will be a iconic success at Manchester City for all the reasons Mancini stated.
But it happens again and again and again where pep is involved, too often for it to be as innocent as it appears
He's just another in a long list of WUMs. Me, Mourinho, Mancini etc etc etc
Not true. LVG's version of total football is different from; for short more pragmatic/ridgid Dutch vs Latin flair. Sir Bobby Robson also played differently & Radomir Antic were only considered as short term fix; which they altered the style heavily (much more direct). Rijkaard was when the total football & Cruyff ideas were revived.
Agree on the board & directors were the one who hold more responsibility to build thing. LVG was very close to a former Barcelona president that the latter lost election & LVG followed him despite being quite successful & having a good team for his ambition.
No, he wasn't... I read that all wrong, sorry
He was 28 when Guardiola took over, which was 5 years after.Xavi already had an incredible season in 2004/05, when he was named La Liga's POTY. The season after he tore his ACL, so he didn't feature much in the CL win.
This is true. They hired Van Gaal because they wanted to keep their identity of positional football, but after nunez fell out with Cruijff they went for Van Gaal and gave him as much power as they gave Cruijff because he was seen as the closest thing to Crujff, but different. Rijkaard did bring back Cruijff's version of positional football, but again, that was what Laporta was aiming for in the first place and we hired him. Laporta was the main man in Barcelona's rebuilding, Rijkaard was just a cog in the machine
Guardiola was the same. That said, Guardiola did revolutionize football. He won a lot by combining Cruijff's ideas with some new specific tactical spins which he took mostly from Bielsa and La Volpe. And his barcelona was so dominant that pretty much everyone in europe had to adapt to them. Either they tries to copy his style, or they took only some ideas, or went about trying to create a system to play against that.
That does not make him the best manager ever of course, he's just a brilliant manager who happened to came at the right time in the right place.
Arrigo Sacchi was the same at Milan
They're two of the greatest football minds in history, which does not mean they are the two best managers in history
hence why Xavi was on the subs bench for the CL final?No, he wasn't... I read that all wrong, sorry
Xavi already had an incredible season in 2004/05, when he was named La Liga's POTY. The season after he tore his ACL, so he didn't feature much in the CL win.
Still at 23, plenty of talent to fulfil under Rijkaard's coaching and tactics?
Great post coming from a Real Madrid fan. I totally agree with what giorno says.
You mean the same coaching and tactics he got from the age of 5 until the age of 19?
yeah like what Pogba also got between those ages, but between 24-29 it will hopefully all be from Mourinho.Sorry, your rationale is way too convenient, as though Barcelona manager plays zero role. I doubt accept that at all.
Barcelona plays the same football from the 5 year olds to the first team. What Xavi did under Rijkaard is literally the same stuff he did all his life.
Sorry, your rationale is way too convenient, as though Barcelona manager plays zero role. I doubt accept that at all.
Of course. I concede
Probably the most intelligent manager going atm, but not the best, too arrogant for that. How many times does his tactics have to be shown up in Europe before he realises? Has been pretty underwhelming since his time at Barca, and no, winning the Bundesliga with Bayern for someone of his past achievements isn't good enough.
He left and Carlo looks like he has a proper shot at winning the Champions League in his first season with Bayern, given how they're playing.
Best manager ever is still SAF imo. To stay at one club for so long and to remain relevant for all those years by constantly adapting is an incredible feat.
He left and Carlo looks like he has a proper shot at winning the Champions League in his first season with Bayern, given how they're playing.
Best manager ever is still SAF imo. To stay at one club for so long and to remain relevant for all those years by constantly adapting is an incredible feat.
Point being, Xavi didn't become what he became thanks to Rijkaard. Rijkaard had his impact on him, just as Van Gaal did, but Xavi was 1) a natural born football genius and 2) a product of barcelona's football. Coaches don't mean as much there as they do elsewhere in terms developing a player's tactical understanding of the game and playing style
He does adjust his tactics from time to time. Just that thehe has ideals that the fundamentals of his philosophy is untouchable. The fundamentals is the core to enable his team to carry out the positional play & possession football. Hoofing the ball upfield while having small players would likely mean conceding possession so contrary to his philosophy. He needs his team to build from the top regardless opposition's pressing play.
That's part and parcel of the game, that's all down to preparation. He should be aware that his style of play isn't going to be effective against some teams and should have players who are capable of playing a different game.
It's a bad example, but we have players like Herrera for when we want to press and dominate play or players like Fellaini when we want to avoid the opposition's press and go hoofing. Lingard for when we need speed in behind and quick transitions or Mata if we need good movement and build-up etc. Even so, he's come up short in the Champions league, hasn't even been a close contest, was embarrassed on several occasions due to his refusal to change. He played one midfielder in an away game against Monaco, one in which it was obvious they were going to throw everything they had at, his tactics are baffling at times.
He wanted City to press high up the pitch to force Monaco into mistakes or to go long. Unfortunately the players didn't follow his instructions and dropped deep which, of course, then looks like he picked the wrong team.
After being reminded of the game plan the players followed instructions in the second half where but for poor finishing (again) City would have won the tie.
Peps tactics aren't so baffling. He basically wants to defend in the opposition half.
Against a Monaco side that can't stop scoring, that attacks with pace and power? Especially when they have players like B. Silva who are immense on the ball and can play their way out of a press. He showed how he was wriggling his way out of City's press in the first leg. Everyone is aware of how good this Monaco side is. It genuinely seems like he is too smart for his own good sometimes. City had the tie just about done and dusted, there was no need to try and go to France and adopt such a risky style imo. Stick Yaya or whoever next to Fernandinho, get some pace in behind their defence (which was shaky as they were committing everything into the attack) and kill the tie off.
Sorry but the second half proved he was correct. The players let Pep down in the first half.
The tie wasn't done and dusted and your plan makes no sense to me at all. Yaya provides a rhythm to the team when in possession, he is absolutely not a defensive shield and as you saw in the second half City used the pace of Sane in particular to get in behind their defence.
I'd love for some of the keyboard warriors who think they know about football tactics to have the opportunity to explain to someone like Pep why he is wrong. It would be hilarious !
Or even more hilarious to set up a team to play against a Pep team
Definitely, throw in the penalty they should have in the 1st leg then could be a different result - mostly though, I think the players failed to deliver and that will absolutely change, guaranteed
Sorry but the second half proved he was correct. The players let Pep down in the first half.
The tie wasn't done and dusted and your plan makes no sense to me at all. Yaya provides a rhythm to the team when in possession, he is absolutely not a defensive shield and as you saw in the second half City used the pace of Sane in particular to get in behind their defence.
I'd love for some of the keyboard warriors who think they know about football tactics to have the opportunity to explain to someone like Pep why he is wrong. It would be hilarious !
Or even more hilarious to set up a team to play against a Pep team
Where exactly did I say Yaya provided a shield? What he simply provides is another body in midfield against a team that attacks with pace and power, not to add it's a known fact your defence is a bit shite. If his decision was right and he didn't need another body in the midfield, why did KDB get pushed deeper in the second half? Also the second half doesn't justify his decision as you guys managed a single touch in Monaco's box in the whole first half. So much for "pressuring them in their own half", that's not just shit performances, that's shit tactics too. He made a mistake as he's done constantly in Europe since leaving Barca. Two different teams, similar tactics, similar results.
Your defence is a bit shite, your keeper situation is a bit shite and your midfield was plagued by injuries, so he insists on pressuring players who are great at getting pressed with one central midfielder, providing literally no cover to his terrible defence? Genius at work, far beyond other managers. Maybe he's just getting slapped around in the CL because the game isn't evolved enough for his tactics yet.
I don't need to explain to Pep why he's wrong. Other managers seem to be doing that for me.
Edit: Also, calling him out on his bollocks hardly makes me a keyboard warrior, only an arrogant manager would lose 6-1 and then repeat the same mistake a year later. I don't claim to know more about football than Pep, simply that he makes mistakes like anyone else. His mistakes unfortunately seem to be a result of his arrogance though, rather than lack of understanding. Results speak for themselves. You wouldn't understand though, you're infatuated by the fact that he's at your club and all, so I understand, continue on your way.
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Thing is there is different type of coaches who sink with his ship (philosophy). He knows full well, the situation, but he chooses to pursuit his way: perfect his play & dominate other teams than change the philosophy. Just like how LVG claimed his team playing attacking football while we barely registered couple shot on target all game.
It's football; there is no absolute right or wrong. With the right conditions; we all saw how dominating his Barcelona team was. We know there is possibility for the philosophy to work. This guy believes he can replicate it; so let wait & see how it turns out. It maybe his eventual downfall or he can make it work in the end, time will tell.
I never wish him luck as City coach; and most of the time I would say he is very one dimensional in his coaching style; but I acknowledge that different people have different workable (not disastrous) views. I am only disagreeing with you on the part that: he doesn't realize the issue nor he didn't try to tweak; and football coach should do things the same way.
Edit: I defended LVG when people said he was clueless, too. I acknowledged his philosophy doesn't fit our club & he is trying to change our identity by his philosophy. His sacking is after the result is justified. I questioned people who saw Pep as good United coach when there was some wild link by the papers, by explaining that if you feel well with purist in LVG, you wouldn't with Pep. They are different but are same as purist.
Pep getting his excuses ready..
http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/8/main/...rs-we-will?utm_referrer=http://m.facebook.com
http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/8/main/...rs-we-will?utm_referrer=http://m.facebook.com
I think they'll be serious contenders next season tbh. That is, of course, if he addresses the needs in the areas of the squad that need addressing. If he fecks up again next season, he'll have no excuse. But he's still arguably the best manager in football so I fully expect a much better season next year. Hopefully they come 2nd behind Chelsea. 