Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"

[Raees]

Did you ever go to Maine Rd? Or are you talking about current fan base? I go to home and a few away games every season and you see the same faces at most prem aways but really different folk in CL aways - my guess is money dictates a lot. All in all I don't know how or why a west brom fan is criticising city fans when we were getting an average of 28K in the old division 2 and 46k before the takeover.

I'm not a West Brom fan fwiw, they were just my local team and as going to Old Trafford as a young lad was unrealistic, they were the best option to watch premier league football.

I'm fully aware of the numbers you were getting in those divisions, they're impressive. But are you telling me that from the perspective of Pep, a guy whose managed Barca and Bayern.. it wouldn't feel bit of a come down that he isn't playing to a full house every week and that in some big european games, the stadium could be 1/3 empty.

Obviously compared to WBA, you're not going to be found wanting in terms of number comparisons.. but City, with Pep at the helm want to become the biggest in the world.. so it is only fair that you get compared to the bigger clubs and in that context, the level of support isn't something to brag about and can be a hindrance. If I was a manager who had managed at top clubs and found myself at city, I would honestly feel a bit down at the size of the fan base if I felt.. jeez we're CL contenders, yet it feels like no one cares. As a player it isn't great to be playing in half empty stadiums. Anyone that saw the CL semi from last year against Real was in agreement that it was a shit atmosphere. United are not the best in terms of atmosphere ourselves, but our away fans are highly rated and for big games we can definitely make some noise.

Anyway it is early days, so i am sure once Pep gets his brand of football going and it is successful, the next stage of evolution in the City brand can begin and your fan base should theoretically get even bigger. The Jose effect on Chelsea's fan base was huge, he turned them into a club of greater significance, one of the elite in europe now and I am sure Pep will have a similar effect on City.

 

[M18CTID]

Managed the math myself actually. They weren't big numbers, so simples.

I would struggle to think of any other big club in Europe that would have sold that few tickets. City returned shit loads too. Amazing how practical and financial factors affect City way more than seemingly anyone else - I hear City are the only fans that go on holiday in August too.

Snide jibes aside, it's a fairly pathetic turn out, regardless of any mitigating circumstances. Will you get 30,000 at the return leg?

To be honest, I expected us to take about that number. We took a similar number to Timisoara - the last time we played in Romania - in 2010 and although this was a more high profile competition it was at a similar stage of the season. Practical and financial factors certainly do come into play and for all clubs as well - Manchester to Bucharest isn't the easiest journey in the world to make, and many fans would probably save themselves for a more palatable fixture should we get through to the group stage. Speaking of logistics, didn't United take about 500-600 for a CL group game against Besiktas a few years back? I'm sure there was a thread on here about it where you'd been allocated about 1500 tickets and although all were sold, most reds didn't travel as they bought the tickets solely for purchase history purposes and giving them an edge over most other United fans in the event of applying for semi-final or final tickets. I think incidents like this led to the club changing the policy about European away tickets and putting in place a system where the tickets had to be collected in person from the destination town/city by the supporter that had purchased the ticket on presentation of their passport, a move that was also introduced by City for European aways last season.

IMHO, City's true hardcore following (the ones that go to every away game) isn't any less loyal than that of any other club - it just happens to be a smaller hardcore than that of some other clubs. Applications for United's domestic aways are routinely over-subscribed by 6 or 7 thousand every match so you're far more likely to get "Chubbed" when applying for an away ticket than we are. City are nowhere near that level and I'd never claim that to be the case.

 

[M18CTID]

Never tempted thankfully by that 13/2. Sounded like an impressive performance.

You're right of course that dominance of the league for any length of time is possibly a thing of the past. That's a good thing. This season looks wide open and, as a result, I for one am more engaged with it all than I have been.

I was expecting it to be a banana skin and although it was an impressive display I've no idea at what level Steaua are at these days when compared to the teams in our own league - put it this way, I'm expecting a far more serious examination at Stoke on Saturday.

Yeah, it's going to be an interesting season for sure. So many good managers and different styles of play.

 

[Xaviesta]

This thread is about City under Guardiola or is it? Swear the last two or three pages have been all about crowd related dick measuring. On topic, City were very good last night and you can only beat what is in front of you. Stoke on the weekend will be much tougher for them. If they can pass their test at the Brtiannia with flying colours, it'll be great for him and them to pass a big test early on in the season.

 

[Treble]

Dr. Fuentes says hi

Can't comment on that. Other teams, also non-Spanish, have played with no less intensity than Guardiola's Barcelona. Dortmund come to mind. Maybe some domestic Herr Dr Fuenter was responsible for it.

 

[rotherham_red]

Can't comment on that. Other teams, also non-Spanish, have played with no less intensity than Guardiola's Barcelona. Dortmund come to mind. Maybe some domestic Herr Dr Fuenter was responsible for it.

1. They were a team of athletes, not the midgets barca were
2. Even though they were athletes, they were still burnt out within 2 years, requiring a rennovation of the team and eventually Klopp left the club when he couldn't find the alternatives
3. Even though Barca were a team of unathletic midgets, they still went on for 4-5 years in that intense high pressing style, conveniently stopping once the Fuentes shaped shit hit the fan.

And I won't even get started on Guardiola's own personal history of PED abuse.

 

[Treble]

1. They were a team of athletes, not the midgets barca were
2. Even though they were athletes, they were still burnt out within 2 years, requiring a rennovation of the team and eventually Klopp left the club when he couldn't find the alternatives
3. Even though Barca were a team of unathletic midgets, they still went on for 4-5 years in that intense high pressing style, conveniently stopping once the Fuentes shaped shit hit the fan.

And I won't even get started on Guardiola's own personal history of PED abuse.

Midgets can press even better than tall players, obviously. To claim that they weren't athletes is stupid. And to present hypothetical explanations as proven facts is no better either. I get you hate Guardiola and Barcelona but until it is proven that they have used PED, it is just empty talk. They won the treble 3 years after he left them.

 

[marukomu]

@Gentleman Jim

I was a season ticket holder and a coach at West Brom for 6 years, so I am hardly an arm chair critic. Since work has become priority, can't travel to games anymore so I totally sympathise with your explanation as to why people can't make it to games but end of the day if the Baggies were a champions league club with the players you have and Pep was their manager, you can guarantee.. there'd be a huge fecking spike in interest - even in obscure away games in Europe. We get 25K attendance on average, now add CL and everything I mentioned above and a bigger stadium, I can easily see that hitting 40K+ at the very minimum and that is in a city where loyalties are split across a number of clubs, Villa, Blues, Wolves, Walsall.

You're getting average 50k attendances now, which is fine but I was seeing a lot of empty seats last season in big european games last year and that tells me the numbers could possibly be there, but the passion on the whole is not.

The one club in Manchester wasn't intended as a jibe, just saying if Everton were in Europe and in the CL, they would not do so half heartedly. The merseyside derby is a real derby, there is a substantial fanbase for both sides, one clearly more successful than the other but Everton is a real significant football club. It isn't about who is the biggest club in the city, its about whether there is a passionate fan base there who are appreciative of what they have in front of them.. whereas you get the vibe that City fans on the whole don't have a large collective of that mad passionate fan base unless it is games involving the rags.

I used to play footie when I lived in Walsall and Brendan Batson's son used to play. 15 years old and he wiped the floor with everyone, including some blokes that were bloody good players. He only liked rugby though.
I always wondered what happened to him.

 

[Raees]

I used to play footie when I lived in Walsall and Brendan Batson's son used to play. 15 years old and he wiped the floor with everyone, including some blokes that were bloody good players. He only liked rugby though.
I always wondered what happened to him.

Don't know how old you are mate but Batsons wife died in 2010, so if the son was young at the time.. might have had a huge impact on him. Couldn't find anything on what he is up to now.

 

[marukomu]

Don't know how old you are mate but Batsons wife died in 2010, so if the son was young at the time.. might have had a huge impact on him. Couldn't find anything on what he is up to now.

It was about 20 years ago. If you knew Walsall and Birmingham around that time you may remember a guy on the news that changed his name by deed poll to Batman. That was me, although I didn't actually do it. We just told the papers I did for publicity for our comic shop.
I suppose he would be mid thirties now.

 

[Piratesoup]

It was about 20 years ago. If you knew Walsall and Birmingham around that time you may remember a guy on the news that changed his name by deed poll to Batman. That was me, although I didn't actually do it. We just told the papers I did for publicity for our comic shop.

What happened to the shop?

 

[marukomu]

What happened to the shop?

It closed pretty quickly. There was no interest in comics in Walsall,
The Birmingham 6 o'clock news made a short film for the end of program comedy spot and brought an outfit for me, but I have never managed to find anything about it on the net. Only this link mentions the shop.

• • Nowhere Comics is supposed to be good.
  • Can't remember the name but it's in the Mews shopping hall on the same road as KFC - run by a guy who changed his name by deed pole to Bat Man - committed or what??!!

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[rotherham_red]

Midgets can press even better than tall players, obviously. To claim that they weren't athletes is stupid. And to present hypothetical explanations as proven facts is no better either. I get you hate Guardiola and Barcelona but until it is proven that they have used PED, it is just empty talk. They won the treble 3 years after he left them.

I'm sorry I offended the alter of your hallowed angels of Catalonia, but there is more than a whiff of dodgyness surrounding them. The fact that they had the energy to go game after game for such a prolonged period of time, almost instantly raises my suspicion. The fact that the Spanish courts ordered the blood samples be destroyed in the Fuentes case almost confirms it.

Please tell me how someone like Iniesta, who at the age of 23 was struggling to complete 90 mins, was almost overnight able to be some sort of high intensity pressing freak? Or a languid defender like Pique, who couldn't hack it in the Prem was suddenly able to do the same in the space of 3 months? Messi suddenly not having his customary injuries? How a high intensity pressing style didn't result in multiple hamstring injuries during the early stages of the process a la Klopp's Dortmund and Liverpool?

Surely you can't all accept that as being coincidence?

And I don't hate Barcelona, and especially Pep. I am on record as stating that I would have loved Pep at Utd. Look through my post history and it'll show that fact.

Barca won their second treble because they changed their style of play. They were more direct and less dependent upon the press. They adapted to their new reality.

 

[Taxx]

I have no love of City, and it is certainly the case that our fanbase is larger, but are we genuinely suggesting here that City have a small support, who are somehow collectively "lesser" fans than ours? Sure they've picked up a lot of new fans of late due to success (so have Utd across the last 2 decades) but let's not pretend City didn't have, and don't continue to have, a good sized core fanbase.

I quote my own post from earlier in this thread:

"City have the 5th highest average attendance since the PL was created at 37971, irrespective of which league they were in, (this has, of course, increased greatly in the last decade), with Utd top at 64452, Arsenal next at 46139, Newcastle third at 45036 and Liverpool fifth at 42312. It's worth noting that ground capacity limits some of these numbers (Anfield's low capacity, Old Trafford redevelopment, Highbury, etc).

Right now, they have the third highest attendance. Whilst they may not always fill their ground, and UTD's attendance dwarfs city's it is certainly true that their attendances have increased greatly and they were, even 20 years ago, hovering around the top 10 attendances in England.

Relative to us, they may seem small, but that's still a sizable support. Given the irrelevance of the cost of stadium redevelopment, and irrespective of atmosphere or whether they have exhausted their current fan base, investing in a bigger stadium makes sense from a financial and growth perspective long term."

I want to beat City on all fronts and there is much about the clubs PR management and ownership I dislike, but wild generalisations about the fanbase is a meaningful as the wild generalisations made about our fanbase that we rightly deride and dismiss.

Just wanted to say that I think this is a terrific post - so much being well said.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Incorrect. United's travelling support is pretty much 100% local and longstanding.
A sizeable proportion no doubt but pretty much 100%? You know that's a large exaggeration.
As such it has a well deserved reputation for turning up, no matter the location, and giving it plenty. Committed fans who have been going year in year and there has been plenty of travelling to be done. You get feck all tourists in the United end at European aways and I can tell you that from experience. Same goes for the Premier League.
Agree with most of this. Of course you won't get the club shop day trippers there but I would imagine that there's a good number of non-local devoted fans there. I work in public transport now and have previously worked 20 years in making flight and hotel arrangements for people. I have an insight as to who is traveling where and why.
Pre and post match fan interviews on such as Full Time Devils also give some clue as to who is attending.
And what is this about United fans being more "affluent"? A link please to any research, anything, that has identified United fans (or any other) as having more money. Or are you another City fan trying to peddle this myth that your lot are humble working class whilst the rest of football is watched by the well off?
Can't find any recent research on the subject (maybe somebody should do some) but common sense tells me that success attracts success.
The majority of middle class people who take an interest in sport won't be bothered with the local mediocre team battling to stay in Div 1 when they can hook up to a club like United (amongst others) who pretty much guarantee success on the field and whose top players are on TV and other media on a regular basis.
To mitigate this, though, I live in a pretty deprived area where United outnumber City by a large number. There are plenty of Reds who are potless and genuinely would struggle to afford the cost of any football match anywhere.

People take the piss out of the "Ikle City" attitude because a lot of the time City fans such as yourself propogate it when it suits. "Oh there's only a few of us and we're a bit skint". fecking give over with the excuses and you'll get taken a bit more seriously.
Do you not agree that going to Bucharest at a weeks notice is a stretch for all but the wealthiest fans? Have you ever done a similar trip at such notice?
No excuses, just opinions. If you don't rate them then feel free to ignore them.

 

[TsuWave]

they have some really exceptional attacking players that seem tailor made for his style, though i don't necessarily agree with some of the "impressive that only after two games pep has already playing them like this" sentiment because i feel like even before pep, city already played some of the football they played yesterday. it also helps that the opposition was quite poor. still, some delightful football and pep will likely turn them into a force considering the attacking talent available to him.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Meh, even LvG's United looked good against a team like Club Brügge. The display against Sunderland was more telling than the game yesterday. Let's see if Pep got a proper plan b for teams that will look to hit him on the counter in the PL, or teams like us, chelsea, arse, pool, tottenham etc.

You're so desperate for him to fail, aren't you?
You'll clutch to any straw that's handy. Even the "no plan B" chestnut comes out to play.
Won't you feel a bit sick cheering Pool on when they play City?

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

I imagine all the Pep hate has something to do with this little poll that was taken in the Pep V Mou V Ancelotti thread a while back.

Ideal next manager of Man United

1. 
   Jose Mourinho
   55 vote(s)
   13.3%
2. *
   Pep Guardiola
   307 vote(s)
   74.3%
3. 
   Carlo Ancelotti
   51 vote(s)
   12.3%
   

 

[SwansonsTache]

You're so desperate for him to fail, aren't you?
You'll clutch to any straw that's handy. Even the "no plan B" chestnut comes out to play.
Won't you feel a bit sick cheering Pool on when they play City?

Football-supporter-in-wanting-the-manager-of-one-of-their-biggest-domestic-rivals-to-fail-shocker.

Pep isn't known to have a plan b, largely because he has always been at clubs and with squads where plan a most often was enough, or pieces of individual skill would carry them through when the plan failed.
And I wont cheer Liverpool on against City, I will be hoping for a draw with all of the players kicking eachother violently in the nuts and getting red cards.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Typical small time City fan jibes. Even somehow slyly digging our history and (genuinely) massive fanbase.

What's small time about preferring Gentleman Joe Mercer and Big Mal, Bell, Lee and Summerbee over Sir Matt, Bestie, Law and Charlton?
There was a terrific team either side of town an I chose City.
I gave not one single stuff whether we had won more Leagues, FA Cups or had more fans in outlying bits of the world.
It was all about the club and the football and still is.

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

Football-supporter-in-wanting-the-manager-of-one-of-their-biggest-domestic-rivals-to-fail-shocker.

Pep isn't known to have a plan b, largely because he has always been at clubs and with squads where plan a most often was enough, or pieces of individual skill would carry them through when the plan failed.
And I wont cheer Liverpool on against City, I will be hoping for a draw with all of the players kicking eachother violently in the nuts and getting red cards.

Absolute crap. He changed formation and tactics quite frequently at Bayern.

 

[ash_86]

Pep should have no problems facing European sides but his real challenge lies domestically. This is a new problem for him and differentiates the other jobs he's been in. Couple of back to back defeats in-between CL games and the entire media will be up in arms. Will be good to see how he handles that.

 

[roonster09]

I imagine all the Pep hate has something to do with this little poll that was taken in the Pep V Mou V Ancelotti thread a while back.

Ideal next manager of Man United

1. 
   Jose Mourinho
   55 vote(s)
   13.3%
2. *
   Pep Guardiola
   307 vote(s)
   74.3%
3. 
   Carlo Ancelotti
   51 vote(s)
   12.3%

His antics at Chelsea might have had impact.

In 2013,
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/replacing-fergie-guardiola-vs-mourinho.365003/

Also there are multiple Jose Vs Guardiola threads and there are many who said they wanted Jose and question Guardiola even before he was linked with City job. For some reason many on the CAF loved Jose before he joined Chelsea second time, maybe everyone was sure he will replace SAF.

BTW it's easy to see why there is hate for Guardiola on Redcafe, if you can't see the reason then you have to think harder (Hint: Club he is managing). It's just that City fans are getting very precious about their manager.

Edit: One more thread it was in 2015 when Jose was champion at Chelsea and had no chance of joining us and Pep was at Bayern and not linked with City or ManUtd.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/guardiola-vs-mourinho.404342/

Even then many wanted Jose and there are few who had doubts on Pep. It's nothing new.

 

[RedCurry]

One thing that I instantly felt watching Man City on TV, that the commentators consider him a foreign coach(yea well no shit), with their constant subtle snide remarks about his formation, substitutions etc. There are foreign coaches in the league that get the domestic manager treatment. Even when Mourinho used to park the bus and make the game incredibly boring, these guys would always somehow twist it around to make it seem like some work of a genius.

But I suppose Pep has to earn that.

 

[soapythecat]

As a United fan, I want Klopp and Pep to fail but there is something still about those two managers that you can't help admire. Personally, I think both will do very well in England and I think the PL is a better place for thier football. However, it is up to United to find a way to be better than them and we have done the best we possibly can by employing Mourinho and buying Pogba. I can't wait for this season but I've resind myself to both City and Liverpool doing well. Can't wait for these games to come around.

 

[Synco]

One thing that I instantly felt watching Man City on TV, that the commentators consider him a foreign coach(yea well no shit), with their constant subtle snide remarks about his formation, substitutions etc. There are foreign coaches in the league that get the domestic manager treatment. Even when Mourinho used to park the bus and make the game incredibly boring, these guys would always somehow twist it around to make it seem like some work of a genius.

But I suppose Pep has to earn that.

The same happened in Germany, he was treated as an alien from the beginning right to his last day by most of the public. Only winning the Champions League would have changed something (though I really can't say in which way exactly).

Since the culture shock for English football is even bigger, I expect the same acceptance problems there. It will probably be very difficult for Guardiola to earn the "domestic manager treatment" as you call it, unless he is outrageously successful.

 

[VeevaVee]

What's small time about preferring Gentleman Joe Mercer and Big Mal, Bell, Lee and Summerbee over Sir Matt, Bestie, Law and Charlton?
There was a terrific team either side of town an I chose City.
I gave not one single stuff whether we had won more Leagues, FA Cups or had more fans in outlying bits of the world.
It was all about the club and the football and still is.

I was referring more to your wording at our expense.

 

[RedCurry]

The same happened in Germany, he was treated as an alien from the beginning right to his last day by most of the public. Only winning the Champions League would have changed something (though I really can't say in which way exactly).

Since the culture shock for English football is even bigger, I expect the same acceptance problems there. It will probably be very difficult for Guardiola to earn the "domestic manager treatment" as you call it, unless he is outrageously successful.

I agree. Although if he wins the PL with City within the next couple of years, he will start getting the respect. On the other hand, if he doesn't manage to win the league within a year or two, I can see him getting more alienated in press with the know-it-all Sky pundits claiming that this whole building from the back is useless in the league and they would be better off just punting the ball with wingers running to the byline etc. etc. It happened to LVG here and he didn't take it very well I think.

 

[Gasolin]

I imagine all the Pep hate has something to do with this little poll that was taken in the Pep V Mou V Ancelotti thread a while back.

Ideal next manager of Man United

1. 
   Jose Mourinho
   55 vote(s)
   13.3%
2. *
   Pep Guardiola
   307 vote(s)
   74.3%
3. 
   Carlo Ancelotti
   51 vote(s)
   12.3%

Opinions change (though I don't like Pep due to the way he wanted to play the game at Barcelona).
I do respect the man though for his will to try things.

Mourinho is closer to SAF anyway.
Let's not forget SAF was more a leader rather than an unbelievable tactician.

Most of his "innovative" tactics were those he took from other managers, e.g. Spaletti.

But at this point, Pep will be the more "fascinating" one.

 

[Treble]

Opinions change (though I don't like Pep due to the way he wanted to play the game at Barcelona).
I do respect the man though for his will to try things.

Mourinho is closer to SAF anyway.
Let's not forget SAF was more a leader rather than an unbelievable tactician.

Most of his "innovative" tactics were those he took from other managers, e.g. Spaletti.

But at this point, Pep will be the more "fascinating" one.

I think there are important similarities between Fergie and Mou: they do not have a special footballing philosophy and are very pragmatic in their approach. Both are winners. Yet I never thought of Fergie that he was narcissistic whereas I'm not sure about the special one.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I was referring more to your wording at our expense.

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to discuss City's football on this thread but it's always derailed by some genius who wants to compare size of fanbases and empty seats rather than tactics and likely outcome of Pep's tenure at City (the thread title, after all).
Even some Red posters on here have made mention of it.

 

[totaalvoetbal]

Opinions change (though I don't like Pep due to the way he wanted to play the game at Barcelona).
I do respect the man though for his will to try things.

Mourinho is closer to SAF anyway.
Let's not forget SAF was more a leader rather than an unbelievable tactician.

Most of his "innovative" tactics were those he took from other managers, e.g. Spaletti.

But at this point, Pep will be the more "fascinating" one.

Except he didn't take anything from Spaletti. Lord Cruijff played as a fake striker for Ajax in the 70s in his last two seasons and Michael Laudrup was a false striker for Barcelona in the seasons before Romario joined them. Before Lord Cruijff, Nandor Hidegkuti was the predecessor of the withdrawn forward.

 

[Raees]

As a United fan, I want Klopp and Pep to fail but there is something still about those two managers that you can't help admire. Personally, I think both will do very well in England and I think the PL is a better place for thier football. However, it is up to United to find a way to be better than them and we have done the best we possibly can by employing Mourinho and buying Pogba. I can't wait for this season but I've resind myself to both City and Liverpool doing well. Can't wait for these games to come around.

I think the EPL is the best place for Klopp and Pep to conduct their footballing experiments. They might suffer in the short term and may never master the league, but they will learn shit loads just by being here.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I think the EPL is the best place for Klopp and Pep to conduct their footballing experiments. They might suffer in the short term and may never master the league, but they will learn shit loads just by being here.

I think both Pep and Klopp are savvy enough to pick up much of what the PL has to throw at them fairly quickly and devise a strategy to counteract it.
The main obstacle for both could be the inability to get in the players that they really want for one reason or another.
Things like the lack of a winter break will certainly be a big handicap and one that Mourinho and Wenger looking to as a big plus to them.

 

[Raees]

I think both Pep and Klopp are savvy enough to pick up much of what the PL has to throw at them fairly quickly and devise a strategy to counteract it.
The main obstacle for both could be the inability to get in the players that they really want for one reason or another.
Things like the lack of a winter break will certainly be a big handicap and one that Mourinho and Wenger looking to as a big plus to them.

Agreed. I hope they do because I want a competitive league with all the top teams becoming CL contenders including Liverpool and yourselves. It would make any success we achieve more satisfactory and more entertaining from a general footballing perspective.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Agreed. I hope they do because I want a competitive league with all the top teams becoming CL contenders including Liverpool and yourselves. It would make any success we achieve more satisfactory and more entertaining from a general footballing perspective.

I had a conversation with a good United supporting mate a few years ago telling him that I don't want or expect domination of the PL from City. I want to be involved every year, winning some when we get our stuff together and losing some when we fook up as we did last year.
I want United, Liverpool and Arsenal involved too together with surprise packets like Leicester.
Plenty of glory on offer for well run clubs.

 

[Raees]

I had a conversation with a good United supporting mate a few years ago telling him that I don't want or expect domination of the PL from City. I want to be involved every year, winning some when we get our stuff together and losing some when we fook up as we did last year.
I want United, Liverpool and Arsenal involved too together with surprise packets like Leicester.
Plenty of glory on offer for well run clubs.

The period of 03-08 was some glorious stuff for the EPL, the top 4 clubs were very competitive in that era.. if only City had got their team earlier, it would have been an even better era of football.

I am excited for the next few years, I think all our teams are in transition and we all need transfer windows and more investment to produce XI's which the managers in question are totally comfortable with. If Wenger leaves, Arsenal will undergo transition too.

United, City, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal... and with teams like West Ham, Everton pushing as well as teams like Leicester, there is big things to come from the EPL next few years.

 

[Womp]

I had a conversation with a good United supporting mate a few years ago telling him that I don't want or expect domination of the PL from City. I want to be involved every year, winning some when we get our stuff together and losing some when we fook up as we did last year.
I want United, Liverpool and Arsenal involved too together with surprise packets like Leicester.
Plenty of glory on offer for well run clubs.

About time too, the Spanish and Germans have left us in the dust. About time we start taking steps to re-establishing the English as one of the European greats in football again.

First step to doing that is making our league even more competitive imo, we're making the right decisions by bringing the best managers and players here.

 

[Barca84]

Incorrect. United's travelling support is pretty much 100% local and longstanding.
A sizeable proportion no doubt but pretty much 100%? You know that's a large exaggeration.
As such it has a well deserved reputation for turning up, no matter the location, and giving it plenty. Committed fans who have been going year in year and there has been plenty of travelling to be done. You get feck all tourists in the United end at European aways and I can tell you that from experience. Same goes for the Premier League.
Agree with most of this. Of course you won't get the club shop day trippers there but I would imagine that there's a good number of non-local devoted fans there. I work in public transport now and have previously worked 20 years in making flight and hotel arrangements for people. I have an insight as to who is traveling where and why.
Pre and post match fan interviews on such as Full Time Devils also give some clue as to who is attending.
And what is this about United fans being more "affluent"? A link please to any research, anything, that has identified United fans (or any other) as having more money. Or are you another City fan trying to peddle this myth that your lot are humble working class whilst the rest of football is watched by the well off?
Can't find any recent research on the subject (maybe somebody should do some) but common sense tells me that success attracts success.
The majority of middle class people who take an interest in sport won't be bothered with the local mediocre team battling to stay in Div 1 when they can hook up to a club like United (amongst others) who pretty much guarantee success on the field and whose top players are on TV and other media on a regular basis.
To mitigate this, though, I live in a pretty deprived area where United outnumber City by a large number. There are plenty of Reds who are potless and genuinely would struggle to afford the cost of any football match anywhere.

People take the piss out of the "Ikle City" attitude because a lot of the time City fans such as yourself propogate it when it suits. "Oh there's only a few of us and we're a bit skint". fecking give over with the excuses and you'll get taken a bit more seriously.
Do you not agree that going to Bucharest at a weeks notice is a stretch for all but the wealthiest fans? Have you ever done a similar trip at such notice?
No excuses, just opinions. If you don't rate them then feel free to ignore them.

I'm not sure if I've read more of a pile of unsubstantiated nonsense on this forum before. Briefly and in order:

• Unless you've been doing United aways on the sly you haven't a clue have you? The reason they've got such a great reputation is precisely for the reasons I've given you.
• Full Time Devils is pretty much despised by our core travelling fanbase and as such is unrepresentative at best.
• So as suggested by myself you've made this up. Your opinion that successful teams attract more middle class than working class fans is frankly bizarre but you use this baseless assertion to prop up this oft repeated myth that City are more working class in some way. They're not and never have been and I find it frankly odd that even now, with City about as less about the working man as a football club can be, that some City fans still feel the need to cling on to this bogus identity. A few years back as some sort of stick to beat a far more successful United with but now?
• Doing aways has always been a sign of commitment partly due to the time and financial outlay. As such it's a young man's game mostly (which you'd know if you did them?) but some lads do well enough to manage it for many a year. I used to hop on a plane before family life took priority yes and the spontaneous aways were often the best ta. Not any more.
• You post as fact unsubstantiated and entirely subjective opinion re United matters. I'll continue to take you up on that.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

I'm not sure if I've read more of a pile of unsubstantiated nonsense on this forum before. Briefly and in order:

• Unless you've been doing United aways on the sly you haven't a clue have you? The reason they've got such a great reputation is precisely for the reasons I've given you.
• Of course my opinions are only based on second hand info from Red relatives, workmates and drinking buddies but you're the sole source required, aren't you?
• Full Time Devils is pretty much despised by our core travelling fanbase and as such is unrepresentative at best.
• So their interviewees aren't United supporters who are at the ground at the time?
• So as suggested by myself you've made this up. Your opinion that successful teams attract more middle class than working class fans is frankly bizarre but you use this baseless assertion to prop up this oft repeated myth that City are more working class in some way. They're not and never have been and I find it frankly odd that even now, with City about as less about the working man as a football club can be, that some City fans still feel the need to cling on to this bogus identity. A few years back as some sort of stick to beat a far more successful United with but now?
• If City had been more successful over the years then it stands to reason that they would have more fans from non-urban areas where disposable cash is more plentiful. But they weren't so they don't and United, Arsenal, Liverpool do. City do have plenty of support in the Cheshire stockbroker belt but this is small beer compared with the clubs mentioned above. It will take years of achievement before that changes markedly.
• Doing aways has always been a sign of commitment partly due to the time and financial outlay. As such it's a young man's game mostly (which you'd know if you did them?) but some lads do well enough to manage it for many a year. I used to hop on a plane before family life took priority yes and the spontaneous aways were often the best ta. Not any more.
• Ha Ha! You're guessing that I don't do always. You're right, I don't these days but as you rightly say it's a young mans game. United, Liverpool, Oldham, Huddersfield, Leeds, Notts Co, Forest, Sheffield Wed, Derby, Leicester, Wolves, West Brom, Villa, Shrewsbury, Arsenal and Wembley several times are the only always I've done so shame on me.
• You post as fact unsubstantiated and entirely subjective opinion re United matters. I'll continue to take you up on that
• This being a forum, not a Court of Law, is full of that from fans of many different teams. I suppose that if a Red does it in respect to an opponent then ho-hum, it's a United Forum, if they don't like being misrepresented then they can do one. Would you be happier if I suffixed my views with IMO or similar to indicate that I cannot prove my opinion as absolute fact?