Manchester City banned from CL for 2 seasons and fined 30 million euros | CAS - Ban lifted, fined 10 million

City deserved it. It makes no sense to make it now a crime, what many other clubs in the past used to do.
Don't be so naive!

1- The scale of the investment that City and PSG have access too is monumental. They are state-backed clubs with access to billions upon billions of capital. We have seen investment in football and also corrupt deals but never before have we been faced by such a sheer wealth inequality as shown by City and PSG. You really think its fair or just to allow a team unlimited investment just because of an owner, what about the hard work that many teams have had to put in to climb the ladder. More money shouldn't always equal more power!

2- City clearly broke the rules, this was proven in the leaks and to be honest even in this ruling. CAS is basically saying that City was, guilty but that too much time has elapsed, while also conveniently forgetting that City also obstructed UEFA access to said information. Its corruption plain and simple and if you think this is not a crime then you are part of the problem.
 
As I posted before the verdict, City likely did not cooperate precisely because they knew UEFA were pursuing a flawed case that would not stand up in an independent court. The fine is purely on that basis - refusing to cooperate.
If you thought someone was pursuing a flawed case why wouldn’t you just prove to them they are by cooperating?

‘I think you might be doing something against the rules’
‘Yeh well we aren’t but you can’t see the proof’
Vs
‘I think you might be doing something against the rule’
‘We aren’t, why don’t you take a look and after you see there is nothing wrong then stop pestering us.’
 
This must be on the cards now. For owners like the Glazers and FSG, City are terrible for business - all they do is jack up wages and transfer fees.

Uefa and Fifa are clearly impotent. The best people to police football are the (non-state-funded) clubs themselves.

I'm slowly coming round to this idea. City, PSG and Newcastle can play each other in UEFA's competition for the rest of time.

What are the repercussions of the traditional big clubs quitting a UEFA competition en masse? That would actually be entertaining. :lol:
 
That would also be problematic in most courts. Trying to prosecute using evidence that was illegally obtained. Far better if the rules allow for the harshest possible penalties for refusing to co-operate in UEFA investigations, than trying to nail a club using evidence from dodgy sources.
Yeah, but the authorities didnt illegally obtain the evidence?
There are whistleblowers throughout history who hand in evidence.
 
Im confused. If the decision was made because of time-barring (ie City were guilty but the information was brought forward too late) but City themselves have been found guilty of not cooperating (ie kicking the can down the road) then surely that should impact the decision to throw the case out purely on a time technicality??
To be honest I don't understand this element either, I don't think you'd get away with this in a UK court.
 
That would also be problematic in most courts. Trying to prosecute using evidence that was illegally obtained. Far better if the rules allow for the harshest possible penalties for refusing to co-operate in UEFA investigations, than trying to nail a club using evidence from dodgy sources.
CAS has precedent of using hacked data as evidence (the drugs case) - so that doesn't hold. Nor does time-barring - since this could be argued (in courts of law) as "fresh evidence" that came up later and could not reasonably have been found previously. It's corruption. Plain and simple.
 
It always seemed like UEFA had a bit of an agenda against City in fairness. There was a lot of noise coming from the likes of Barca and Bayern around the time that the investigation was being conducted by UEFA, it did seem like there was a bit of 'appeasing the old boys' kind of thing.

Still, doesn't shed a good light on either City or UEFA. UEFA botched the original investigation in 2015 so not that surprising that no further action has been taken. For City, and the likes of PSG, Chelsea etc. it does seem like open season has been declared. UEFA should use this as a motivator to do FFP correctly. At the moment, the only clubs suffering are the ones that actually are in need of the UEFA money for their own sustainability.

Best not to focus on this too much. Win our games and we get third, and we are in Europe on our own merits. Win Eurpoa League and we get a better seeding for the draw. Let's focus on our own house. This obsession with City is a bit like the small minded noise that was coming out of City years ago, 'noisy neighbours' etc and all that. Morally and ethically, all the noise that comes out of that club is just wrong, and somewhere down the line the right thing will be done.

Great post.
 
- no they say this was not established or was time barred therefore they are not saying city broke FFP
- no they are saying they did not cooperate with the investigation
- some of them are too far back - some not proven
- for not cooperating which isnt the same thing as deliberatly hiding things (basically its being in a police station and saying no comment - CAS are saying in this case city could have been more helpful in establishing the facts - they are not saying city lied and deliberately hid facts )
- no cas says there is no proven rules broken within admissible time frames... I guess like if yu get sent a speeding fine or a parking ticket too late you can simply say its time barred so f off
1. They say most of the breaches are either not established or time-barred. Most is doing a lot of work there, and even implies that there are breaches which are neither unestablished nor time-barred. But either way, CAS is unambiguously stating that City did do things that breached FFP.
2. Not cooperating with an investigation in this context did mean hiding offences
3. Ok, but this 'time-barring' is doing an awful lot of the heavy lifting. We can criticise UEFA for how the regulations we written, or for failing to investigate thoroughly enough within that period — but clearly they have breached the regulations otherwise no-one would need to mention the time that has elapsed.
4. Tomato tomato. I don't have the time or desire to read up on the original case but I will assume given City's attitude and behaviour in the leaked emails that they deliberately and intentionally mislead UEFA
5. It's more like disputing a parking ticket on the basis that you were never there, getting off, and then evidence later emerging that you were there and should have an even greater fine. You take it to an arbitration court who rule that you cannot be fined because it was too long ago.

If UEFA basically said we cant prove it but we think you did X and then imposed the sanctions they were stupid for letting it get this far - they need to sack their laywers and re-examine FFP as its clearly not something they themselves understand how to administer

I don't think they expected the time-barring, 5 year statute of limitations excuse to pay off because, at face value, it's so incredibly dumb. I also am finding it incredibly hard to find anything explaining where it comes from. It appears City have exploited rules that were written re. a five year reporting period to generate a statute of limitations excuse, and that is a bullshit judgement from CAS.

a.) MCFC has contravened Article 56 of the Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations.
b.) MCFC shall pay a fine of EUR 10,000,000 to the UEFA, within 30 days as from the date of issuance of the arbitral award. The CAS award emphasized that most of the alleged breaches reported by the Adjudicatory Chamber of the CFCB were either not established or time-barred.

As the charges with respect to any dishonest concealment of equity funding were clearly more significant violations than obstructing the CFCB’s investigations, it was not appropriate to impose a ban on participating in UEFA’s club competitions for MCFC’s failure to cooperate with the CFCB’s investigations alone.
However, considering
i) the financial resources of MCFC;
ii) the importance of the cooperation of clubs in investigations conducted by the CFCB, because of its limited investigative means; and
iii) MCFC’s disregard of such principle and its obstruction of the investigations, the CAS Panel found that a significant fine should be imposed on MCFC and considered it appropriate to reduce UEFA’s initial fine by 2/3, i.e. to the amount of EUR 10 million.

But why? If the failure to cooperate meant that CFCB was unable to find them guilty of violations that would have required a competition ban, then the non-cooperation should have been punished similarly.

I mean that just speaks to how much of joke the ruling is. 'A significant fine should be imposed' – continues to reduce an already insignifcant fine

the UEFA lawyers either knew that or are incompetent ... perhaps UEFA will change the time limit on their own rules but as I say perhaps fully revisiting FFP and how they administer it is a better starting point

They are going to have to revisit FFP. Salary cap incoming.
 
City was always going to win, the richest men on the planet will have the best legal team, access to as much information as possible and an ability to spot any minor detailed mistake that could get this charge thrown out of court.

Pathetic.
 
What a joke.


I hope we challenge for the league so we can stop rooting for these bastards to stop Liverpool from winning.

Tinpot club.
Still don’t know why we were rooting for them over Liverpool. These are our local rivals who only became relevant because of what amounts to a lottery win. They represent the worst aspects of modern society and the monetary corruption that comes with it. Always hated them more than Liverpool. Bitter blues can feck right off back to the second or third division where they belong.
 
it's the exact same thing that happens in Italy, with fictitious capital gains, Juve had 157 million euros in debt, managed to earn 160 million euros in a week with tricks and unclear operations as to evaluate a player of the under 23 (our second division) 8 million euros.
Madness.
 
So, UEFA should at the very least amend FFP to include failure to cooperate and provide required insight as a banworthy offense. Seeing as it will be very hard to prove any wrongdoing (including holding back information tbh) without any authority.
How about offering amnesty to agents/players who have been payed under the table for providing information?
 
It's not their decision, only governements could do that the UEFA is a private organization, as is FIFA. And it's unlikely that any government ever will, the EU supported it but I don't see any agreement happen anytime soon, it would have too much collateral damages regarding freedom of entrepreneurship.
Ahhhh, I understand..... I think :lol:

Guess sportsmanship used to be alot more common before the oil states got interested in football.
 
I get that, but don't you think its odd to talk of "significant fines" ... only to talk of reducing that fine in the same sentence?

Not cooperating fully with your governing body should be cause for a heavy fine, not a reduction of one.

Not at all. UEFA's fine was on the basis of charges that they felt merited a two-year ban. If CAS are overturning the ban, then it logically follows that the fine UEFA imposed alongside that is also going to be deemed to be unsuitable - now it's a fine just for refusing to cooperate, not a fine for that + the other charges.
 
T

There is literally an e-mail exchange saying pretty much exactly that. I can't remember off the top of my head, but something along the lines of "You the company pays City 14m, 2m is your own money and 12m is coming from Sheikh"
Yeah but I guess that's from ages ago though, before City wised up and realised they didn't need to be so obvious. It's probably beyond the statute of limitations.
 
T

There is literally an e-mail exchange saying pretty much exactly that. I can't remember off the top of my head, but something along the lines of "You the company pays City 14m, 2m is your own money and 12m is coming from Sheikh"
It's about those figures.

Also the Etihad airlines annual payments email. Quote from Guardian (sorry, first I found);

In one of the emails City’s then chief financial officer, Jorge Chumillas, had sent two invoices internally for the £67.5m 2015‑16 sponsorship, stating that “£8m should be funded directly by Etihad and £59.5 [sic] by ADUG” – Mansour’s company vehicle.
 
I'm slowly coming round to this idea. City, PSG and Newcastle can play each other in UEFA's competition for the rest of time.

What are the repercussions of the traditional big clubs quitting a UEFA competition en masse? That would actually be entertaining. :lol:
The threat would be enough to prompt a rule-change hopefully.
 
Just kinda sad that a plastic manufactured club owned by a state can go on spending insane amounts of money which no one can compete with, while they dismantle historic clubs like Villa, Everton, Arsenal 4 or 5 nil.

When they’re true standing in football should be mid table with them but there you go, modern football
 
It reminds me of Italy in 2006, the final report from the Italian Federation prosecutor stated that the worst offences in calciopoli scandal were on charge to Inter Milan but the report was put out just one day after the statute of limitations expired. And they also got a bonus league title as a gift........
 
It appears that most people commenting don't even understand the case. The whole case was that the owners were injecting money directly not the club and disguising it as sponsorship money. CAS have vindicated them and the fine is NOT for breaking FFP rules, but for NOT co-operating with UEFA's investigation.

If anything, this shows incompetency and perhaps an agenda from UEFA. Every sponsorship deal with ties to the owner is investigated by UEFA, as per their FFP rules. Any deal found not to be fair market value will be adjusted to fall in line with it. Sponsorships cannot be inflated.

Could you point out where?
 
CAS has precedent of using hacked data as evidence (the drugs case) - so that doesn't hold. Nor does time-barring - since this could be argued (in courts of law) as "fresh evidence" that came up later and could not reasonably have been found previously. It's corruption. Plain and simple.

I have no idea what Cas would accept or not, I was referring generally to competent courts. I don't think incentivising people to commit crimes to obtain evidence is a great way of functioning as a court. That's just my opinion though. :)

I think UEFA's own rules should allow for the time-barring to be overridden in circumstances where reasonable co-operation has not been forthcoming. My initial understanding from what journos are saying is it's UEFA who didn't have any clauses in relation to co-operation and time-barring, so the rule on time-barring had to be upheld by Cas. If the time-barring is a Cas thing that forms part of arbitration in general then it's a huge problem for the future of FFP going forwards.
 
It's about those figures.

Also the Etihad airlines annual payments email. Quote from Guardian (sorry, first I found);

In one of the emails City’s then chief financial officer, Jorge Chumillas, had sent two invoices internally for the £67.5m 2015‑16 sponsorship, stating that “£8m should be funded directly by Etihad and £59.5 [sic] by ADUG” – Mansour’s company vehicle.

But City did nothing wrong. :lol::wenger:
 
Not at all. UEFA's fine was on the basis of charges that they felt merited a two-year ban. If CAS are overturning the ban, then it logically follows that the fine UEFA imposed alongside that is also going to be deemed to be unsuitable - now it's a fine just for refusing to cooperate, not a fine for that + the other charges.

Well then they probably shouldn't go branding terms like "significant" around...

Considering this sets a precedent for clubs not to share information they may deem to be harmful with UEFA (I mean why after this any sane club would be open/assist with any investigation I do not know) I would say that's a pretty big deal. Is 10million the standard fine for not cooperating? Seems pretty low if it is.

Also do we definitely know the ban was just for the breach and the fine was for the breach+not sharing info? I assume this must be the case/we do know this but I'm not sure.
 
If you thought someone was pursuing a flawed case why wouldn’t you just prove to them they are by cooperating?

‘I think you might be doing something against the rules’
‘Yeh well we aren’t but you can’t see the proof’
Vs
‘I think you might be doing something against the rule’
‘We aren’t, why don’t you take a look and after you see there is nothing wrong then stop pestering us.’

No. Any single lawyer would advise you the exact opposite. Whether you are guilty or not becomes immaterial. If they cannot prosecute you, (a) it is not in your benefit to cooperate, (b) you would likely conclude they are not acting fairly or impartially if they want to prosecute you for something on a clearly flawed basis.
 
Is this really a surprise to anyone? The governing bodies have been turning a blind eye to City's activities for long enough now. Slip them a cheeky brown envelope and all will be forgotten about.
 
No. Any single lawyer would advise you the exact opposite. Whether you are guilty or not becomes immaterial. If they cannot prosecute you, (a) it is not in your benefit to cooperate, (b) you would likely conclude they are not acting fairly or impartially if they want to prosecute you for something on a clearly flawed basis.

Especially if you are guilty as feck
 
It obviously wasn't UEFA who hacked City. But when that information is in the public domain, then its fair game for anyone to use. Notable that City never claimed the emails weren't legitimate.
UEFA have bodged this badly, the equivalent of a Ronny Rosenthal miss in their world cup final..............

City always claimed the emails were out of context, there is a big difference
 
Is the corruption behind this decision.as blatant as death of Epstein or Khassogi?!

It’s so brazen.
When you factor in that the €10m fine is basically City's entrance fee to the CL next season, yes it is. It's essentially a legal bribe. UEFA only ever wanted the money anyway.
 
Is this really a surprise to anyone? The governing bodies have been turning a blind eye to City's activities for long enough now. Slip them a cheeky brown envelope and all will be forgotten about.
UEFA did it’s bit. They just never knew they didn’t have ultimate jurisdiction over their own business!
 
Insignificant evidence or time barred. Looks to me like no real evidence of any wrong doing and more than likely the time barred ones would be the same. I'd like to apologise to city for believing them guilty.

Would now be great to see uefa go over the books of the leagues 19 other clubs so they can drag them through the mud wrongly too.
 
I’m reading that the 5 year clause is stipulated by uefa.
Sounds like they just threw a load of shit at the wall and hope some of it stuck.
It didn’t.

Wrong way round. City's defence was to throw a load of shit at the wall a hope some of it stuck. It did.

Not at all. UEFA's fine was on the basis of charges that they felt merited a two-year ban. If CAS are overturning the ban, then it logically follows that the fine UEFA imposed alongside that is also going to be deemed to be unsuitable - now it's a fine just for refusing to cooperate, not a fine for that + the other charges.

But you are assuming here (and CAS too) that the initial fine was 'significant' which it wasn't. The significant punishment was the ban, which was worth 100s of millions.

In the context of a top European football club a significant fine is probably €100m +.