Manchester Arena Bombing 22.05.17

manufanatic said:
Reading several posts on this and it is clear that Europe is already lost. People blaming colonialism for today's terrorism or oil and the west being involved in the Middle East but somehow forgetting the stating goal of Islam is to rule the world with the sword or As imams in Europe and in Manchester have being saying for decades they are going to breed out the native population and you lot still want accceptance of this lunacy. Most in England support hate speech laws when someone calls out this awful religion but all speech should be protected England Canada Australia Germany France etc have all gone down this path changing western values because it might offend Muslims. When 1/3 of Muslims in your country will not report someone who is about to kill innocents and your answer is still have something to say on Twitter or change your social media supporting the good Muslims? Other say it is because of poverty and while in Syria that might be a factor it wasn't here or in Boston or in Orlando this individuals had the western experience and the idiotic religion of Islam still compelled them to kill. Western men for hundreds of years have died in the millions defending Europe from Islam. Unfortunately today's men with there nihilism and narcissism are still sleeping. 1400 girls and boys raped in England by Muslim gangs hundred women are girls groped and raped in Germany and Sweden numerous attacks in Europe and you are still giving them excuses while claiming the west needs to be responsible for what we have done in the Middle East. Let's be clear most liberal leaning men have been walking around with guilt because apparently it is only the west and in particular white men who are to blame. Schools in the west, media in the west and nearly all of left leaning politics has this view. When you continually shame and blame men for decades this is the result and wether you like the term **** it is abundantly clear that it is true. Either way in the end Europe is killing itself without a real awaking your kids or grandkids will be governed under a theocracy Islamic state.
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I've read some shite after the bombing, but that's up there with the worst of it.
 
manufanatic said:
Reading several posts on this and it is clear that Europe is already lost. People blaming colonialism for today's terrorism or oil and the west being involved in the Middle East but somehow forgetting the stating goal of Islam is to rule the world with the sword or As imams in Europe and in Manchester have being saying for decades they are going to breed out the native population and you lot still want accceptance of this lunacy. Most in England support hate speech laws when someone calls out this awful religion but all speech should be protected England Canada Australia Germany France etc have all gone down this path changing western values because it might offend Muslims. When 1/3 of Muslims in your country will not report someone who is about to kill innocents and your answer is still have something to say on Twitter or change your social media supporting the good Muslims? Other say it is because of poverty and while in Syria that might be a factor it wasn't here or in Boston or in Orlando this individuals had the western experience and the idiotic religion of Islam still compelled them to kill. Western men for hundreds of years have died in the millions defending Europe from Islam. Unfortunately today's men with there nihilism and narcissism are still sleeping. 1400 girls and boys raped in England by Muslim gangs hundred women are girls groped and raped in Germany and Sweden numerous attacks in Europe and you are still giving them excuses while claiming the west needs to be responsible for what we have done in the Middle East. Let's be clear most liberal leaning men have been walking around with guilt because apparently it is only the west and in particular white men who are to blame. Schools in the west, media in the west and nearly all of left leaning politics has this view. When you continually shame and blame men for decades this is the result and wether you like the term **** it is abundantly clear that it is true. Either way in the end Europe is killing itself without a real awaking your kids or grandkids will be governed under a theocracy Islamic state.
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I think you are not fully understand some of the debate. It's actually quite a good discussion imo, and most on both sides of each opinion accept it's not really as black and white as you think it is.

I think it's quite a stretch to land at that conclusion.
 
manufanatic said:
Reading several posts on this and it is clear that Europe is already lost. People blaming colonialism for today's terrorism or oil and the west being involved in the Middle East but somehow forgetting the stating goal of Islam is to rule the world with the sword or As imams in Europe and in Manchester have being saying for decades they are going to breed out the native population and you lot still want accceptance of this lunacy. Most in England support hate speech laws when someone calls out this awful religion but all speech should be protected England Canada Australia Germany France etc have all gone down this path changing western values because it might offend Muslims. When 1/3 of Muslims in your country will not report someone who is about to kill innocents and your answer is still have something to say on Twitter or change your social media supporting the good Muslims? Other say it is because of poverty and while in Syria that might be a factor it wasn't here or in Boston or in Orlando this individuals had the western experience and the idiotic religion of Islam still compelled them to kill. Western men for hundreds of years have died in the millions defending Europe from Islam. Unfortunately today's men with there nihilism and narcissism are still sleeping. 1400 girls and boys raped in England by Muslim gangs hundred women are girls groped and raped in Germany and Sweden numerous attacks in Europe and you are still giving them excuses while claiming the west needs to be responsible for what we have done in the Middle East. Let's be clear most liberal leaning men have been walking around with guilt because apparently it is only the west and in particular white men who are to blame. Schools in the west, media in the west and nearly all of left leaning politics has this view. When you continually shame and blame men for decades this is the result and wether you like the term **** it is abundantly clear that it is true. Either way in the end Europe is killing itself without a real awaking your kids or grandkids will be governed under a theocracy Islamic state.
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"These days if you say you're English, you get arrested and thrown in jail..."
 
SteveJ said:
92554d1336764850-honesty-really-best-policy-19_harryhillfight.gif
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Who is that guy?
 
JustAFan said:
Try reading my post again, specifically the part where I said "WW2 in Europe" clearly indicating I was speaking about, well the part of the conflict that took place in Europe. No internet points for you!
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Yes. How convenient to leave out the entire Pacific Theater. It wasn't a "World War" without it, was it? No history points for you!
 
moses said:
Must have been mental. So many people are going to need a lot of post trauma counselling for a long time.
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The crazy things is that for the people who work in emergency services it may not have been all that out of the ordinary. I guess the main difference would have been so many different centres being overwhelmed all at once. A really nasty multi-vehicle car crash (which is not all that uncommon) can easily overwhelm individual Emergency departments and create a night of endless trauma for everyone involved. Which is something I've personally experienced. I lacked the cojones to do it as a career, though and sacked it all off for a desk job toot sweet. So much admiration for people who can cope with that shit, over the course of their whole working life. Doesn't bear thinking about.
 
Jaxdan said:
Yes. How convenient to leave out the entire Pacific Theater. It wasn't a "World War" without it, was it?
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Historians often talk of the various theaters of the war, IE the Pacific, European, African, so yes even if it is a concept you can not grasp, you can talk about the various theaters separately. Now run along and let the adults talk.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The crazy things is that for the people who work in emergency services it may not have been all that out of the ordinary. I guess the main difference would have been so many different centres being overwhelmed all at once. A really nasty multi-vehicle car crash (which is not all that uncommon) can easily overwhelm individual Emergency departments and create a night of endless trauma for everyone involved. Which is something I've personally experienced. I lacked the cojones to do it as a career, though and sacked it all off for a desk job toot sweet. So much admiration for people who can cope with that shit, over the course of their whole working life. Doesn't bear thinking about.
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Yeah, it'd take a strength I know I don't have.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Took me a second viewing to see at least one asian looking dude joining in the singing. Which took the sting out of it. Until then it was uncomfortably reminiscent of Ingerland fans and their anti-IRA chants.
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I agree with the sentiment. ISIS can shove it up their arse!

The problem is I doubt any of these people know that the next step for their protest is to force their leaders to engage in regime change in Saudi Arabia, instead of supplying them with £100 billion worth of weapons which will help them further spread their wahabi doctrines. Anyone with an interest in this subject really needs to understand the founding origins of wahabi-ism and the significant difference it has vs prophet Muhammad (pbuh) intended sunni teachings. I recommend this book for anyone who is interetsed: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6533039-after-the-prophet

Millions of naive and spiritually pure migrants move the middle eastern states such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE. Once there they earn relative fortunes to what they are able to earn in Muslim dominated countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Libya, Phillipinnes or Indonesia. Also whilst there, they are exposed to the state sponsored hardcore corrupted wahabi ideology.

And so when they return to their home country villages, as newly wealthy, aspirational and respected role models, they also take their Wahabi principles with them. Money is power, and with their new found power, these returning migrants insist their family and others adopt their newly found ideological principles.

It's such a core part of the current problem, as so many are ignorant to it. Instead, we allow our western Governments to worsen the situation, so they an elite few can benefit at the cost of the plebs, which we all are.
 
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Smores said:
Really? fecking twats. I really do despise the Daily Mail and i mean that word in its full force.
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They're trying to claim that shes a target as these extremists believe women should not dress the way she does
pauldyson1uk said:
OK I am confused 21 murdered and 1 twat dead and the Police have contacted all the families of the injured in hospital and the dead BUT there is still I think 7 missing. WHERE ARE THEY !!!
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Hate to say it, and I hope I'm wrong but given the nature of the attack they are probably dead and unidentifiable.
 
Just explained to some bint on twitter that this man was a british national after she said 'we should have just deported him'. For saying that, I'm just as bad as him apparently.
 
manufanatic said:
Reading several posts on this and it is clear that Europe is already lost. People blaming colonialism for today's terrorism or oil and the west being involved in the Middle East but somehow forgetting the stating goal of Islam is to rule the world with the sword or As imams in Europe and in Manchester have being saying for decades they are going to breed out the native population and you lot still want accceptance of this lunacy. Most in England support hate speech laws when someone calls out this awful religion but all speech should be protected England Canada Australia Germany France etc have all gone down this path changing western values because it might offend Muslims. When 1/3 of Muslims in your country will not report someone who is about to kill innocents and your answer is still have something to say on Twitter or change your social media supporting the good Muslims? Other say it is because of poverty and while in Syria that might be a factor it wasn't here or in Boston or in Orlando this individuals had the western experience and the idiotic religion of Islam still compelled them to kill. Western men for hundreds of years have died in the millions defending Europe from Islam. Unfortunately today's men with there nihilism and narcissism are still sleeping. 1400 girls and boys raped in England by Muslim gangs hundred women are girls groped and raped in Germany and Sweden numerous attacks in Europe and you are still giving them excuses while claiming the west needs to be responsible for what we have done in the Middle East. Let's be clear most liberal leaning men have been walking around with guilt because apparently it is only the west and in particular white men who are to blame. Schools in the west, media in the west and nearly all of left leaning politics has this view. When you continually shame and blame men for decades this is the result and wether you like the term **** it is abundantly clear that it is true. Either way in the end Europe is killing itself without a real awaking your kids or grandkids will be governed under a theocracy Islamic state.
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Your profound insight has given me a moment of epiphany.

I say we should exterminate all Muslims from the entire country. They are obviously to blame and the cause of all this.

It's so obvious. Make it law.
 
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manufanatic said:
Reading several posts on this and it is clear that Europe is already lost. People blaming colonialism for today's terrorism or oil and the west being involved in the Middle East but somehow forgetting the stating goal of Islam is to rule the world with the sword or As imams in Europe and in Manchester have being saying for decades they are going to breed out the native population and you lot still want accceptance of this lunacy. Most in England support hate speech laws when someone calls out this awful religion but all speech should be protected England Canada Australia Germany France etc have all gone down this path changing western values because it might offend Muslims. When 1/3 of Muslims in your country will not report someone who is about to kill innocents and your answer is still have something to say on Twitter or change your social media supporting the good Muslims? Other say it is because of poverty and while in Syria that might be a factor it wasn't here or in Boston or in Orlando this individuals had the western experience and the idiotic religion of Islam still compelled them to kill. Western men for hundreds of years have died in the millions defending Europe from Islam. Unfortunately today's men with there nihilism and narcissism are still sleeping. 1400 girls and boys raped in England by Muslim gangs hundred women are girls groped and raped in Germany and Sweden numerous attacks in Europe and you are still giving them excuses while claiming the west needs to be responsible for what we have done in the Middle East. Let's be clear most liberal leaning men have been walking around with guilt because apparently it is only the west and in particular white men who are to blame. Schools in the west, media in the west and nearly all of left leaning politics has this view. When you continually shame and blame men for decades this is the result and wether you like the term **** it is abundantly clear that it is true. Either way in the end Europe is killing itself without a real awaking your kids or grandkids will be governed under a theocracy Islamic state.
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Careful manufanatic. Your putting me out of my job as the cafe's token neocon, fascist, zionist, blood drinking, islamaphobic, warmongering, white supremacist extremist.
 
2cents said:
I tend to agree. Here's a quote I like:

"the European wish to make the world in its own image is not necessarily to be disparaged as ungenerous. If one believes oneself to be the source of salvation, the wish to make others reflect oneself is not unbenign, however terrible the practices by which this desire is put into effect."

I think this applies equally to Islam and its own world mission. And hence, the apparent conflict between 'the West' and 'Islam' is due as much to what makes them similar - i.e. their universal impulse - as to what distinguishes them from each other.
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Allow me to put it another way. Both religions believe they come from the same God. The difference being Muslims being the most recent, or the final word. Just as apple wants iPhone users to upgrade to the latest model, so radical Islamists believe that is their divine purpose. Likewise, many practising or radical Christians refuse to acknowledge Islam or quite rightly refuse to 'upgrade'.

I think the western crusade of moral superiority is based on its Christian enlightenment. It's just as radical as the Islamist phenomena working in the opposite direction. These two worlds lived in relative harmony for so many centuries. The conflicts accelerated and became more common after the creation of Isreal, intended as a western base to be near the oil. Once Saudi oil runs out, so will western support for Israel, and there will be little interest from the west to 'reform' the middle east. That's when this nonsense will quickly peter out.

You have profound objective knowledge on this subject. Is the above too simplistic?
 
sammsky1 said:
Allow me to put it another way. Both religions believe they come from the same God. The difference being Muslims being the most recent, or the final word. Just as apple wants iPhone users to upgrade to the latest model, so radical Islamists believe that is their divine purpose. Likewise, many practising or radical Christians refuse to acknowledge Islam or quite rightly refuse to 'upgrade'.

I think the western crusade of moral superiority is based on its Christian enlightenment. It's just as radical as the Islamist phenomena working in the opposite direction. These two worlds lived in relative harmony for so many centuries. The conflicts accelerated and became more common after the creation of Isreal, intended as a western base to be near the oil. Once Saudi oil runs out, so will western support for Israel, and there will be little interest from the west to 'reform' the middle east. That's when this nonsense will quickly peter out.

You have profound objective knowledge on this subject. Is the above too simplistic?
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I would basically agree with you up until "These two worlds lived in relative harmony for so many centuries."
 
The issue gets talked about for a few days after every tragedy, but it won;t be solved simply because those in charge will never take the action required.

One one side you have the 'its islam that is the problem', and on the other you have the 'its our fault after decades of middle eastern slaughter'.

The reason they can never get over this is that both are right. Wahhabism is a problem, rather than Islam as a whole, and wahhabism uses the slaughter, abuse and pillaging of resources of the middle east as fuel to propagate its hate around the world.

Until we have leaders prepared to setp back from middle eastern military interference in general, and isolate Saudi Arabia as the prime source of wahhabism through sanctions, things cannot ever improve.
 
2cents said:
I would basically agree with you up until "These two worlds lived in relative harmony for so many centuries."
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I meant in the last 200 years or so until the creation of Israel.

Can you foresee conditions to an equitable agreement to disagree?
 
manufanatic said:
Reading several posts on this and it is clear that Europe is already lost. People blaming colonialism for today's terrorism or oil and the west being involved in the Middle East but somehow forgetting the stating goal of Islam is to rule the world with the sword or As imams in Europe and in Manchester have being saying for decades they are going to breed out the native population and you lot still want accceptance of this lunacy. Most in England support hate speech laws when someone calls out this awful religion but all speech should be protected England Canada Australia Germany France etc have all gone down this path changing western values because it might offend Muslims. When 1/3 of Muslims in your country will not report someone who is about to kill innocents and your answer is still have something to say on Twitter or change your social media supporting the good Muslims? Other say it is because of poverty and while in Syria that might be a factor it wasn't here or in Boston or in Orlando this individuals had the western experience and the idiotic religion of Islam still compelled them to kill. Western men for hundreds of years have died in the millions defending Europe from Islam. Unfortunately today's men with there nihilism and narcissism are still sleeping. 1400 girls and boys raped in England by Muslim gangs hundred women are girls groped and raped in Germany and Sweden numerous attacks in Europe and you are still giving them excuses while claiming the west needs to be responsible for what we have done in the Middle East. Let's be clear most liberal leaning men have been walking around with guilt because apparently it is only the west and in particular white men who are to blame. Schools in the west, media in the west and nearly all of left leaning politics has this view. When you continually shame and blame men for decades this is the result and wether you like the term **** it is abundantly clear that it is true. Either way in the end Europe is killing itself without a real awaking your kids or grandkids will be governed under a theocracy Islamic state.
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Wow.

Anyway, back to work at Salford Royal today, still feel a bit guilty about being out of the country on Monday. Can't stress how much I'm proud of my fellow doctors, nurses and paramedics. All from innumerable backgrounds, but all Manc as feck.
 
sammsky1 said:
I meant in the last 200 years or so until the creation of Israel.
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If you're talking in blunt terms of the relationship between 'Islam' and 'Christianity'/'the West' then I'm not sure how you could describe the relationship as harmonious, and certainly not in the 200 years preceding 1948. In any case, I think Israel is just one issue among a great many that impacts upon these things.
 
I like new words - not sure how 'cuckservative' is gonna be utilised in everyday conversation but it's a good one to know if & when the opportunity arises.
 
JustAFan said:
Historians often talk of the various theaters of the war, IE the Pacific, European, African, so yes even if it is a concept you can not grasp, you can talk about the various theaters separately. Now run along and let the adults talk.
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Oh yes, how adult of you. No shit Sherlock. :rolleyes: It's a subject I actually know far more than you realize. Back on point, was the Soviet Union also a 'Western Power' Mr. Adult?
 
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