Manager draft

01. Harms:-Giovanni Trapattoni - 1. Platini 2. Scirea
02. AngeloHenriquez/Stobzilla:-Fabio Cappello - 1. Baresi 2. Gullit
03. Jayvin:- Carlo Ancelotti - 1. Edgar Davids 2. Kaka
04. Paolo Di Canio:-Louis Van Gaal - 1. Frank Rijkaard 2. Rivaldo
05. Skizzo:-Udo Lattek - 1. Diego Maradona 2. Gerd Müller
06. MJJ:-Marcello Lippi - 1. Roberto Baggio 2. Thuram
07. Joga Bonito:-Udo Lattek - 1. Beckenbauer
08. Balu/PedroMendez:-Béla Guttmann - 1. Bozsik
09. Raees:-Vicente Del Bosque - 1. Ronaldo
10. Cutch:-Alex Ferguson - 1. Beckham
11. Gio:-Giovanni Trapattoni - 1. Matthäus
12. Edgar Allan Pillow:-Fabio Capello - 1. Maldini
13. The Red Viper:-Pep Guardiola - 1. Philipp Lahm
14. DanNistelrooy:-Carlo Ancelotti - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo
15. Annahnomoss:-Vanderlei Luxemburgo - 1. Zinedine Zidane 13. Romario
16. Crappycraperson:-Rinus Michels - 1. Migueli

@Joga Bonito
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Not as good/central for United as he was for Leeds - less of an obvious Busby player, I'd say.

Nobby could easily feature, of course - I had him in the first version I did, but this is the W-M one and he's less of a fit here, I feel.
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Obviously his best was for Leeds but he was still good for United.
 
harms said:
Platini from Juve surely is better than Barca's Maradona though.
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I think this is going to be the most difficult part of getting fair scores for this draft. People will see the names and vote. Despite Ancelotti having Ronaldo for 1 season at Milan he was still on my shortlist as would no doubt get votes
 
Annahnomoss said:
Romario in his peak VS Ronaldo of '03?
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I'm just offended that there is no one from my team here :lol:
Platini was superior to Maradona until 1985/6 in my opinion. Then things changed, of course
 
The Red Viper said:
Obviously his best was for Leeds but he was still good for United.
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Great player, no doubt - and I reckon most neutrals would have him above, say, Crerand - for whom one might certainly make a case too. But it wouldn't be right or proper to include Giles in an all time Busby line-up for me.
 
crappycraperson said:
I prefer Zidane+Romario or who ever lines up before Platini. Barca's Diego would fail to make the top 10 players of this draft for me
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Still 38 goals in 58 games over injury hit 2 seasons is still exceptional. Maybe not his Napoli peak, but somewhere just below that. And add Muller to that now!

Though I'm not the expert here, I thought Muller would fit in better with Baggio than Maradona. Movement and passing over dribbling or something like that!
 


Passin' the ball for Barca.

Not too shabby. Bit of a genius, actually, that Armando lad.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Still 38 goals in 58 games over injury hit 2 seasons is still exceptional. Maybe not his Napoli peak, but somewhere just below that. And add Muller to that now!

Though I'm not the expert here, I thought Muller would fit in better with Baggio than Maradona. Movement and passing over dribbling or something like that!
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That's quite reasonable, although it's not like he wouldn't work with either. How the rest of the team shapes up will be far more important in determining who the better partner is.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Still 38 goals in 58 games over injury hit 2 seasons is still exceptional. Maybe not his Napoli peak, but somewhere just below that. And add Muller to that now!

Though I'm not the expert here, I thought Muller would fit in better with Baggio than Maradona. Movement and passing over dribbling or something like that!
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He actually played in 13 league games under Lattek and scored 6 goals, 2 of them were penalties.
He was good in Cup Winners' Cup though, scored a hat-trick against Apollon Limassol and 2 goals against Red Star Belgrade (Estrella Roja, ffs :lol:)

Yes, he missed half of the Lattek's time in 82/83 due to the his injuries, but still - not on a GOAT level. Brilliant, and non-deniable genius, but not quite that. His best was later


Edit - of course, he was assisting too (and firstly, probably), but I'm addressing to yours 38 in 58.
 
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Maradona under Lattek is really difficult to judge. It didn't take long until Maradona hated Lattek and his focus on discipline and in the end it became a stupid power struggle between them. At one point they basically forced the board to get rid of one of them and of course Lattek drew the short straw there. From what I've seen, I wouldn't say it influenced Maradona's performances on the pitch though. He was his usual self, which wasn't peak Maradona yet, but obviously brilliant.
 
I think the best way would have been a minimum games requirement. A minumum game requirement of fifty odd games would have been good because we would have then had a good sample size for the performance. How do you judge someone who played only ten to fifteen games?
 
I don't think it's all that important in this context - given that there is no particular focus on the manager in terms of tactics or...philosophy as Aloysius would say. If the latter had been a major point, then yes - it would be important whether someone played ten matches or a hundred, and the fact that Maradona fell out with Lattek would be highly interesting too.

But as it stands, the focus remains more on the players and their respective qualities - so unless a player positively underperformed (compared to his normal level) or was too young or too old (compared to his peak level), the sample size under manager X is actually irrelevant, because the player's known level at the time is the main thing.
 
The Red Viper said:
I think the best way would have been a minimum games requirement. A minumum game requirement of fifty odd games would have been good because we would have then had a good sample size for the performance. How do you judge someone who played only ten to fifteen games?
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Agree
 
The Red Viper said:
I think the best way would have been a minimum games requirement. A minumum game requirement of fifty odd games would have been good because we would have then had a good sample size for the performance. How do you judge someone who played only ten to fifteen games?
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Though I agree with the idea in theory, 50 games usually mean more than 1 season and that would not be favourable to manangers who had one season, but a successful one at that. should be more optimal.

Chesterlestreet said:
But as it stands, the focus remains more on the players and their respective qualities - so unless a player positively underperformed (compared to his normal level) or was too young or too old (compared to his peak level), the sample size under manager X is actually irrelevant, because the player's known level at the time is the main thing.
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This was highlighted before. In Ronaldo/Lippi arguement. Assuming MJJ picked Ronaldo, compared to career Peak level, he was near the top. But compared to Peak under manager (which is the criteria), he was injured and had a overall terrible season playing only 7 matches. Had the criteria been 25 matches, it would be more easy to judge what his level should have been.

Too late to change now, but I think it is good to note for future.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Though I agree with the idea in theory, 50 games usually mean more than 1 season and that would not be favourable to manangers who had one season, but a successful one at that. should be more optimal.



This was highlighted before. In Ronaldo/Lippi arguement. Assuming MJJ picked Ronaldo, compared to career Peak level, he was near the top. But compared to Peak under manager (which is the criteria), he was injured and had a overall terrible season playing only 7 matches. Had the criteria been 25 matches, it would be more easy to judge what his level should have been.

Too late to change now, but I think it is good to note for future.
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50 was just a number. We could have changed it to 30 or something which is good enough, imo.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I don't think it's all that important in this context - given that there is no particular focus on the manager in terms of tactics or...philosophy as Aloysius would say. If the latter had been a major point, then yes - it would be important whether someone played ten matches or a hundred, and the fact that Maradona fell out with Lattek would be highly interesting too.

But as it stands, the focus remains more on the players and their respective qualities - so unless a player positively underperformed (compared to his normal level) or was too young or too old (compared to his peak level), the sample size under manager X is actually irrelevant, because the player's known level at the time is the main thing.
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My first thought when I see that name is always about the teddy bear from Brideshead Revisited. I got really confused for the first few times
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I don't think it's all that important in this context - given that there is no particular focus on the manager in terms of tactics or...philosophy as Aloysius would say. If the latter had been a major point, then yes - it would be important whether someone played ten matches or a hundred, and the fact that Maradona fell out with Lattek would be highly interesting too.

But as it stands, the focus remains more on the players and their respective qualities - so unless a player positively underperformed (compared to his normal level) or was too young or too old (compared to his peak level), the sample size under manager X is actually irrelevant, because the player's known level at the time is the main thing.
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Yup. If we had kept with the original idea then it would have been incredibly important exactly how they performed under the manager as you'd be trying to replicate a team and tactic from that manager. Like you say though, as we skipped that part of the idea now it is mainly down to what the players level as an individual was at the time. A team which was doing shite, with one superstar, still makes that superstar a good pick.

You're not going to play him with the same teammates, repeating the same mistakes as the manager etc.
 
Sorry for the delay. I pick

images


01. Harms:-Giovanni Trapattoni - 1. Platini 2. Scirea
02. AngeloHenriquez/Stobzilla:-Fabio Cappello - 1. Baresi 2. Gullit
03. Jayvin:- Carlo Ancelotti - 1. Edgar Davids 2. Kaka
04. Paolo Di Canio:-Louis Van Gaal - 1. Frank Rijkaard 2. Rivaldo
05. Skizzo:-Udo Lattek - 1. Diego Maradona 2. Gerd Müller
06. MJJ:-Marcello Lippi - 1. Roberto Baggio 2. Thuram
07. Joga Bonito:-Udo Lattek - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Schuster
08. Balu/PedroMendez:-Béla Guttmann - 1. Bozsik
09. Raees:-Vicente Del Bosque - 1. Ronaldo
10. Cutch:-Alex Ferguson - 1. Beckham
11. Gio:-Giovanni Trapattoni - 1. Matthäus
12. Edgar Allan Pillow:-Fabio Capello - 1. Maldini
13. The Red Viper:-Pep Guardiola - 1. Philipp Lahm
14. DanNistelrooy:-Carlo Ancelotti - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo
15. Annahnomoss:-Vanderlei Luxemburgo - 1. Zinedine Zidane 13. Romario
16. Crappycraperson:-Rinus Michels - 1. Migueli

@Balu @PedroMendez
 
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Still in Hungary, we pick up another player, the next door neighbour of Bozsik. From the age of five onwards, they were life-long friends and both together went on to form one of the most fruitful footballing partnerships in history. They'll continue that in our team:

Ferenc-Puskas-007.jpg


Ferenc Puskás

I would be a liar if I said we were not pretty nervous on the day of the match. I was in my kit, hanging about in the corridor, when I saw the England inside-right [Ernie] Taylor, who wasn't very tall. I popped back into the dressing room and said to the others: 'Listen, we're going to be all right, they've got someone even smaller than me'
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Ferenc Puskas before Hungary demolished England 6-3 at Wembley in 1953.

Of course, if his best friend scored in that game, Puskás had to as well. I'm sure everyone has seen it, but it's still beautiful:



I also found this little gem of a story about Puskás playing in a Merseyside charity match:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2011/nov/17/the-forgotten-story-ferenc-puskas-merseyside
 
01. Harms:-Giovanni Trapattoni - 1. Platini 2. Scirea
02. AngeloHenriquez/Stobzilla:-Fabio Cappello - 1. Baresi 2. Gullit
03. Jayvin:- Carlo Ancelotti - 1. Edgar Davids 2. Kaka
04. Paolo Di Canio:-Louis Van Gaal - 1. Frank Rijkaard 2. Rivaldo
05. Skizzo:-Udo Lattek - 1. Diego Maradona 2. Gerd Müller
06. MJJ:-Marcello Lippi - 1. Roberto Baggio 2. Thuram
07. Joga Bonito:-Udo Lattek - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Schuster
08. Balu/PedroMendez:-Béla Guttmann - 1. Bozsik 2. Puskás
09. Raees:-Vicente Del Bosque - 1. Ronaldo
10. Cutch:-Alex Ferguson - 1. Beckham
11. Gio:-Giovanni Trapattoni - 1. Matthäus
12. Edgar Allan Pillow:-Fabio Capello - 1. Maldini
13. The Red Viper:-Pep Guardiola - 1. Philipp Lahm
14. DanNistelrooy:-Carlo Ancelotti - 1. Cristiano Ronaldo
15. Annahnomoss:-Vanderlei Luxemburgo - 1. Zinedine Zidane 13. Romario
16. Crappycraperson:-Rinus Michels - 1. Migueli

@Raees
 
Any excuse to post this:

I was with (Bobby) Charlton, (Denis) Law and Puskás, we were coaching in a football academy in Australia. The youngsters we were coaching did not respect him including making fun of his weight and age...We decided to let the guys challenge a coach to hit the crossbar 10 times in a row, obviously they picked the old fat one. Law asked the kids how many they thought the old fat coach would get out of ten. Most said less than five. The old fat coach stepped up and hit nine in a row. For the tenth shot he scooped the ball in the air, bounced it off both shoulders and his head, then flicked it over with his heel and cannoned the ball off the crossbar on the volley. They all stood in silence then one kid asked who he was, I replied, "To you, his name is Mr. Puskás".

- George Best
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Joga Bonito said:
Cheers. Just thought he is a bit unique and offers that extra creative spark from Udo's arsenal of fantastic midfielders.
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Yeah, with Maradona gone, you definitely needed him. Would have been a huge risk to let him get back to Skizzo again, especially because him and Maradona worked surprisingly well together.
 
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