Don't ruin my journey through his career
. I was getting to that part with one of the upcoming picks, ffs.Manager draft
- Thread starter Annahnomoss
- Start date
. I was getting to that part with one of the upcoming picks, ffs.Well, firstly Bozsik was more advanced in years in '48 than Ronaldo during his Sporting stint. And secondly it's a moot point, since Guttmann managed him much later too - in 56-57 (for Honved).
Don't ruin my journey through his career
Sorry
The 'peak' is doing my head in. Think I'll give it a rest unless it is used on my pick.
@Balu that was a nice article. Goes into my saved pages for future reference.
@Balu that was a nice article. Goes into my saved pages for future reference.
We really shouldn't overcomplicate the peak thing or we all go completely mental. We shouldn't dissect the careers of all those great players to come up with something to criticise. As long as there wasn't some sort of signifcant drop in form or some specific role never played before and after during their time with the manager in question, let it go and accept that they are great players.
Don't think people should worry all that much about this peak business - unless it's a question of obvious flaws, like the ones already mentioned. The players who will make a difference here are pretty damn good - and such players generally were pretty damn good throughout their careers.
Unless they were toddlers or too long in the tooth to be any good anymore, I can't see it becoming a major issue for a manager arguing their case.
Unless they were toddlers or too long in the tooth to be any good anymore, I can't see it becoming a major issue for a manager arguing their case.
Yeah, I agree. Somehow got carried away a bit. Tedious and not fun at all.
I'm not sure MJJ will be on as it's like 2am there. Let's see in a bit...
Yeah, the idea behind the draft was more to tell the story about the players a manager has managed and his path of his career as that hasn't been done before. I'd love it with some more Balu'esque stories being told when we start reaching the less obvious picks. That'd be brilliant.
This will be a fun draft to follow. Kudos to @Annahnomoss for the criteria
This would be the only draft Beckham is rated, that too probably because CR was taken. Last draft I chose Becks and Chester promptly benched him!
Don't exactly see why he is not a more popular pick in here. Not many other 'draft popular' players provide the threat of crossing as much as he does and I think having him to other pass/dribble players adds a new dimension to the team. Workrate is good too!
Is it ebcuase he is not considered a fit outside of a 4-4-2? I think he'll be a good fit in right of a 4-3-3 or even in a diamond.
It's a good point, I can't think of a single draft where Beckham has had a good innings. Maybe the Prem one with the team @Theon had?
Problem is folk try to re-jig him into a winger or a central midfielder. He can do a solid job there but it's sub-par.
Problem is folk try to re-jig him into a winger or a central midfielder. He can do a solid job there but it's sub-par.
He's highly rated but wins no points. People have a hard time giving him credit for what he did to be honest and it is understandable. People label all his passes as crosses, while Veron/Scholes/Pirlo gets much more appreciation for their "cross field passes" or what not. Fact is Beckham relied more on incredible cross field passes which found a striker/winger behind the enemy lines than he did "crossing" from the corner flags.
For me the absolutely best thing with Beckham was when he received a ball in the defense he turned around, found an opponent making a run and it nearly always was pin point accurate. That is something really unique and I rarely see it mentioned at all when Beckham is in one of these teams, Blind's best moment in this WC was something Beckham pulled consistently in every match.
RVN and him were just a joy to watch.
Don't think his position matters too much. He'd do a similar job in a diamond Di Maria role as he did as a side midfielder. Same kind of issue we have with all the strikers who can't dribble or create chances on their own. Voters have a difficult time actually seeing them score unless it is served with a silver spoon. In reality of course somebody like van Basten or RVN would score consistently by making great runs and finishing it incredibly well etc, but that gets no credit.
Well he played a role akin to that at times with Madrid, and did it well. But he would lack Di Maria's ball carrying ability and off-the-ball penetration.
Last game, I planned for
..Nedved...Neeskens...Becks...
.............Mascherano................
Think I had Henry too.... in my favourity 4-1-3-2 formation. I thought it was a stellar midfield and with good defence and supporting striker, one that would be worth to progress. Sadly not!
..Nedved...Neeskens...Becks...
.............Mascherano................
Think I had Henry too.... in my favourity 4-1-3-2 formation. I thought it was a stellar midfield and with good defence and supporting striker, one that would be worth to progress. Sadly not!
This is how they lined up in 04-05;
-------Gravesen
Beckham-----Figo
-------Zidane
-Ronaldo-----Raul
Real had quite the history playing a diamond from Redondo's days until Zidane's days and Figo was as well brilliant there and he never gets credit for that role. Beckham's passing range was even more emphasized in this role.
The thing is you don't need that of all players. You have Di Maria on one wing to carry the ball and then have Becks in other to get pinpoint passing/crossing. Best of both worlds. Don't see why that is considered a negative trait.
Ah here we go
Yeah had to secure Becks with Cristiano gone. He should be rated pretty highly in this setup when I get his mates (who there's no rush on to pick) alongside him. The problem with him usually in drafts is the strange positions he finds himself in. Right wing forward, wingback etc.
If MJJ appears in the morning and Skizzo after, Ill be logging on here about 1 in the afternoon to give my pick just to give the rest of the lads a heads up
4 more hours for mjj to pick I think?
Ill be around for a while if you want to leave your pick with me.
i dont think he is showing up tonight but ill email you my pick for when you next come on anyway
Sounds good. Got your message.
I have no problem with him on the right side of a diamond. It's when he's shunted in on as a right-sided attacker in a 4-3-3 that I start to ask questions. He has been highly underrated in these drafts though. He was a machine in terms of creating chances during his peak.
With good reason. As you suggest yourself he is very hard to sell. So, unless you a) play him in what is the one position in which he will undoubtedly be rated highly by the voters (which has huge consequences for the rest of your set-up) or b) he is a particular, personal favourite of yours (and you don't care how he's rated by voters) - you don't pick him. It ain't a mystery, in fairness.
Beckham was a world class player at his best - for United, as a wide midfielder. He was never as good at any point later in his career - he was never bad either, be it said, but there you go. You don't impress anyone with "never bad". The job he can do (and yes, he can certainly do that job) in a diamond will most likely be easy to upgrade on in a draft where all sorts of players are available.
Not a criticism, just to expand on the fact about Becks and these drafts. We predominantly played 4-4-2, so he ended up on wide right. I thought he can be sold in right middle of a 4-3-3 too, for example. But then, next draft I'll make it my personal agenda to build a non 4-4-2 side around Beckham.
Didn't he win the assist league in La Liga for Real Madrid too in 05-06? Became Real Madrid player of the year too. Beckham was good at Real, adapted really quickly and started playing good football even from his diamond midfield role.
Obviously the team is notorious because of the president forcing the managers to play certain players. Gravesen replaced Makelele and he fell flat, Raul and Ronaldo got older and older but were too big as names to be forced out. I think the role of Figo/Di Maria/Beckham in a diamond is very different from how a Seedorf/Davids would play it.
You don't replace one with the other, as the team would play completely different styles of football. Real were very attacking with Beckham-Zidane-Figo-Raul-Ronaldo while the more classic diamond like Milan was more about a rock solid defense and quick counters.
will make my pick in an hour Or two from office.
w.r.t ronaldo we did discuss but since he spent his two seasons under lippi injured decided to pass as didn't think that should count as his peak.
w.r.t ronaldo we did discuss but since he spent his two seasons under lippi injured decided to pass as didn't think that should count as his peak.
I think your time is up in 30 mins. Ill wait to make mine if youll be around though.
Then what is the point of even having the 'peak' rule? Ronaldo only scored one goal from open play in 99/00 but we should ignore that because he was a great player before and after that? The rule states players should be judged on their peak form under the manager chosen by the drafters, if we start picking and choosing who the rule applies to based on perceived 'greatness' then it devalues the whole thing.
Yeap, it does not make any sense.
According to what everyone has said, even if Lahm had stunk up the shop as a CM for Pep and had a bad year, he still should be rated very highly for Pep because of his exploits as RB previously. I don't believe his performances at RB under Pep were enough for him to be rated properly as a RB for this draft for Pep.
I just realised an added bonus in this draft: you actually have to go out and research all the other managers to check for overlaps. Not that most aren't bleeding obvious, but I'm sure there will be 1 or 2 picks that come as a complete shock to someone.
If I may butt in, it has nothing to do with whether picking managers first is or isn't advantageous.
You start picking players with Crappy, by the time you finish the snake in round 13 you finish with harms. It follows the snake carries on from harms. Ignore crappy for a moment here, he is largely irrelevant given his manager pick, but it's harsh on harms that he picks after Gio in the first round and then again in the reinforcement round.
It was nowhere in the rules that the reinforcement would start from the opposite end to the management picking and common sense would have indicated otherwise.
My 2p.
Roberto Baggio.
Wouldn't both those cases clearly fall into the 'some sort of signifcant drop in form or some specific role never played before' category? I never said ignore everything, I said don't overdo it.
I simply disagree with that. According to transfermarkt, Lahm started 16 competitive games at rightback since Pep took over and I'm sure in another 10-15 games he was shifted to rightback in the 2nd half of games when Pep changed the tactics. Saying he shouldn't be judged on what we know about him, even though he proved in 15-20 games that he's still easily the best rightback in the world is just silly nitpicking in my opinion. It's not even a small samplesize.
But that's all from me to the topic. If people want to take that rule to the extreme, fair enough. I definitely won't when I judge the teams.