Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

[lysglimt]

Pep also inherited 5 world class players in Aguero/Silva/KDB/Kompany/Sterling. Who are the world class talents Mourinho inherited?

Kompany is injured most of the time - and seriously you can't honestly say that anyone would claim Sterling was World-class Before last season

 

[spiriticon]

That statement is from early February after just signing Sanchez. Since then Martial has asked to leave (with Mourinho reportedly happy to sell), Mata has shown huge signs of decline and we know directly from Willian quotes that he's been asking his agent to make a transfer to United happen.

Sounds to me like he was in the market for a right forward/winger.

What still irks me is that we never went for No.2 on the list for right wingers. Chelsea did not want to sell Willian so there was no point wasting time.

Instead we spent all summer chasing CBs when Woody should have told Mourinho to STFU and play Bailly and Lindelof.

I do blame Woody for not being more stern with Jose early on in the transfer window. But I suppose Woody never expected Jose to stab him in the back like he did.

 

[JPRouve]

That statement is from early February after just signing Sanchez. Since then Martial has asked to leave (with Mourinho reportedly happy to sell), Mata has shown huge signs of decline and we know directly from Willian quotes that he's been asking his agent to make a transfer to United happen.

Sounds to me like he was in the market for a right forward/winger.

Willian didn't told you that it was this summer though, we haven't really been linked with attacking players since Sanchez signed. To me it seems that we purchased our attacker earlier than anticipated and crossed that from the list. Which I don't really understand.

Edit: Bear in mind that what Willian said this month is exactly what he said a year ago, the time frame is far from clear.

 

[Minimalist]

I find this a really weird view to take since it is yet again deliberately ignoring the fact that who the manager of the team is, is Woodward's responsibility.

The tons of money thing is a complete and utter non argument, unless you cheer wildly whenever we sign a new sponsorship deal and shrug your shoulders uncaringly whenever we score a goal.

I wish I wasn’t defending a pen pusher but on paper what has Woodward done wrong in the grand scheme of things? Hired the wrong managers? That’s basically it.

I don’t mind him getting the boot for that but I’m not directly mad at him for the shite we’re seeing on the pitch. He (Mourinho) has more of a direct impact on that than Woodward despite this recent anger at our chief exec.

 

[MadMike]

Willian didn't told you that it was this summer though, we haven't really been linked with attacking players since Sanchez signed. To me it seems that we purchased our attacker earlier than anticipated and crossed that from the list.

He doesn't have to, it's directly implied when he's using present rather than past tense. His statements were form the 6th of August. This August.

Willian has been a target of Mourinho's since the Portuguese arrived at Old Trafford in 2016, but is unsure if any formal offers have been made to acquire him this summer.

"I don't know if there was any official bid [from Manchester United], but some things have happened," he said.

"Also, everything comes out on the internet, too. But Mourinho talks to my agent all the time, he says 'bring him, bring him'.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/socc...affinity-for-jose-mourinho-wants-chelsea-stay

I think that very clearly indicates there was recent interest on him, moreso than 6 month old quotes from Mourinho.

 

[VP89]

You see I don't think that it's obvious at all, in fact I'm 100% sure that it wasn't in his plan, like he said himself he used it during preseason because it's the one time where he can familiarize the players with it. The potential new CB was a direct replacement for one of the two starters.

I don't see why he'd try to familiarise his players with a 352 without having the intention to use it.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

I wish I wasn’t defending a pen pusher but on paper what has Woodward done wrong in the grand scheme of things? Hired the wrong managers? That’s basically it.

I don’t mind him getting the boot for that but I’m not directly mad at him for the shite we’re seeing on the pitch. He has more of a direct impact on that than Woodward despite this recent anger at our chief exec.

Focused on "marketable stars" rather than quality players that fit in the team. Helped the Glazers take over the club and saddle Manchester United with nearly a billion in debts. Refused to spend on Mou targets this year, and then refuse to fire Mou when he wasn't backing him, thereby allowing the team to go into this season ready to finish outside the Champions League spots. Woodward has basically treated the fans like trash throughout his time as United CEO and this has caused the club significant harm. And yet there'll be many who want Mou out, even though he hasn't been given the resources to build a side. Yes, Mou has been given money, but he hasn't been able to finish the job. If you're building a Ferrari and then stop building when you get to the back right tire, you'll end up with a great looking vehicle that goes around in circles. This is what's happened to our great club, and Woodward is a leading reason why behind the Glazers.

 

[JPRouve]

He doesn't have to, it's directly implied when he's using present rather than past tense. His statements were form the 6th of August. This August.



I think that very clearly indicates there was recent interest on him, moreso than 6 month old quotes from Mourinho.

Like I edited he said the exact same thing a year ago, there is a fair chance that he is just repeating old stories.

 

[MadMike]

I do blame Woody for not being more stern with Jose early on in the transfer window. But I suppose Woody never expected Jose to stab him in the back like he did.

How did Mourinho stab him in the back? Saying that he didn't get the players he wanted, which we all knew, was stubbing him in the back? The affront of the man to point out the obvious!

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know shit about what's going n behind the scenes and who the real targets were or what not. But at a wild guess, Mourinho was happy to sacrifice Rojo and Martial to bring a better defender and a RW. The first didn't happen and the second hit the stumbling block that the club did not want to sell Martial.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't see why he'd try to familiarise his players with a 352 without having the intention to use it.

Because managers like to be able to change things if necessary. It doesn't mean that plan to use regularly.

 

[Kapardin]

Mourinho has spent the money well in general. I doubt we'd lose much money on anyone he's brought in. The collective improvement has been obvious, just look at the league table.

Debatable.

Assuming his signings continue to play at their current level with no improvement or decline, his scorecard reads like this:

Successes - Zlatan (left), Matic, Pogba, Lukaku.

Flops - Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhi (left), Alexis, Fred.

Developing - Dalot.

Again, I am just assuming Fred and Alexis continue to play at their current levels. Accept that it's too early to say how either of them will shape up, though time is running out for Alexis.

Basically, only 3 successful signings still at the club out of 10. And Matic will need replacing pretty soon. So just 2, and that's assuming Raiola doesn't throw a fit and force a transfer for Pogba.

The new manager will need a new CB, a FB, a DM, a #10, a midfielder or two and a RW. Maybe even a LW if he doesn't fancy Martial, dumps Sanchez and makes Rashford a backup to Lukaku.

I'd say we seriously need a new DoF before we even contemplate scouting for new players.

 

[spiriticon]

How did Mourinho stab him in the back? Saying that he didn't get the players he wanted, which we all knew, was stubbing him in the back? The affront of the man to point out the obvious!

Even if Woodward failed this summer, Mourinho didn't need to complain about it to the press. Should have been done in private.

It doesn't matter anyway. Woodward has seen fit to give one media based bitchslap back to Jose and the real losers are Manchester United.

 

[MadMike]

Like I edited he said the exact same thing a year ago, there is a fair chance that he is just repeating old stories.

I don't think that's a fair chance, more like a minimal chance based on mental gymnastics. Most likely scenario by far, is Mourinho has been trying to bring him over during both summers. Re-iterating the same thing two summers in a row doesn't somehow invalidate the latest statements. More like re-enforces them.

He was asked about whether Man United made an offer for him this summer, to which replied that he doesn't know but that Mourinho talks to his agent all the time asking him to bring him. I'm not sure how that can be interpreted differently really

 

[VanGaalyTime]

Debatable.

Assuming his signings continue to play at their current level with no improvement or decline, his scorecard reads like this:

Successes - Zlatan (left), Matic, Pogba, Lukaku.

Flops - Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhi (left), Alexis, Fred.

Developing - Dalot.

Again, I am just assuming Fred and Alexis continue to play at their current levels. Accept that it's too early to say how either of them will shape up, though time is running out for Alexis.

Basically, only 3 successful signings still at the club out of 10. And Matic will need replacing pretty soon. So just 2, and that's assuming Raiola doesn't throw a fit and force a transfer for Pogba.

The new manager will need a new CB, a FB, a DM, a #10, a midfielder or two and a RW. Maybe even a LW if he doesn't fancy Martial, dumps Sanchez and makes Rashford a backup to Lukaku.

I'd say we seriously need a new DoF before we even contemplate scouting for new players.

Yikes. Bailly has been our best defender since he signed and Fred has played 2 games. Very harsh to label them flops. Alexis hasn't been great so far but he's turned up in important games. I'd say Alexis will be about the same as Ibra - pretty good but could have been better.

 

[spiriticon]

I think placing Pogba under 'Success' is very very debatable....

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I think placing Pogba under 'Success' is very very debatable....

Debatable my arse. Plenty of good performances from him, and even with a busted knee and Raiola blackmailing us we would make a profit when selling him. Shite, if Barca, PSG or Real Madrid come for him it's going to be a 200 million euro transfer in the current market, how is that not a good signing?

 

[Kapardin]

Yikes. Bailly has been our best defender since he signed and Fred has played 2 games. Very harsh to label them flops. Alexis hasn't been great so far but he's turned up in important games. I'd say Alexis will be about the same as Ibra - pretty good but could have been better.

I said assuming they neither improve or decline and specifically mentioned something along the lines od Fred's inclusion being taken with a pinch of salt.

Bailly is so overrated that it's ridiculous. He has had a few good games like Jones, Rojo and the rest and been either terrible or injured otherwise. Smalling remains our best defender and that's pretty damning.

 

[spiriticon]

Debatable my arse. Plenty of good performances from him, and even with a busted knee and Raiola blackmailing us we would make a profit when selling him. Shite, if Barca, PSG or Real Madrid come for him it's going to be a 200 million euro transfer in the current market, how is that not a good signing?

Plenty of equally shite performances from him too, in addition to talking too much in the media and bringing disrepute to the club.

We fecking wish we could value him at 200 million, but last I heard Barca valued him at 50 million plus Mina and Gomes.

 

[Moonwalker]

Pep also inherited 5 world class players in Aguero/Silva/KDB/Kompany/Sterling. Who are the world class talents Mourinho inherited?

I agree that Guardiola 'inherited' a better group of players, as I've already said in this thread. However, what you've just done there is taken a group of players in their present state and then treated that as if it were a given, instead as a contingency which is what it actually is.

I remember vividly the speculation regarding Guardiola's next club on red cafe. The perception about just how 'world class' some of those players were, was anything but uniform. People actually argued that we have just as good a squad (I wasn't one of them). Questions were asked about the concerning age of their squad, the injury proneness, the issues of hunger and desire because they are all mercenaries and so on and so forth. Of course, now that a great manager has made some of that dubious potential an actuality, you can claim that "well he's had it good all along". To say that is to ignore the fact that the manger is actually important part of why some* of those players are still considered 'world class', instead of being talked of as ageing, past it, and dispensable, as they were under Pellegrini.

*And I say some, because whatever Guardiola has achieved he didn't achieve because of any great help from Kompany, who even if you wanted to be charitable and call him world class, simply can't string two games without getting injured. Calling Sterling world class is also highly dubitable, but whatever claim he might have to that description, he does only after and because Guardiola arrived.

 

[MadMike]

Even if Woodward failed this summer, Mourinho didn't need to complain about it to the press. Should have been done in private.

It doesn't matter anyway. Woodward has seen fit to give one media based bitchslap back to Jose and the real losers are Manchester United.

I don't know about a bitchslap. All this has played more favourably for Jose than Ed. If the season doesn't turn out well Mourinho will have a valid excuse, the lack of signings from his list. If the season turns out great and he wins a major trophy, it'd be a remarkable achievement accomplished in spite of (rather than thanks to) the board. Win-win for him.

Ed on the other hand looks like the guy who, despite not being a football man, doubted Mourinho's choices without having any alternatives of his own to pursue. Leaving the manager without reinforcements only 6 months after he gave him a contract extension. And this after previously bringing in Van Gaal and sanctioning all the dross he signed. He doesn't come off in any good light from this.

The focus by a lot of the fans and the media was on Mourinho at the end of last season. Now it's both on Mourinho and Ed. For Jose that's a small victory. He's not the type of manager to just take things lying down, like Pochettino did when Levi failed to sign him a single player. Love him or hate him that's Jose and he's always been outspoken like this.

 

[goin4glory]

Well if he spent well, he doesn't really need to replace his good signings and he told us that Valencia and Young were his starter and that we didn't need attackers. This leaves us with one conclusion...

I said good for the most part, Lindelof and Miki have looked average but he used Miki for Sanchez and Bailly simply can't stay fit. Mourinho said Young was a starter as he expected us to be spending money on a CB.

 

[spiriticon]

Umm if we win a major trophy, it will just prove Ed right that the squad was good enough to win trophies all along without further 'investment' and Jose just needed to pull his finger out.

Not sure where this is heading to be honest, apart from in circles.

At the end of the day whichever point of view you look at it, Jose is underneath Ed on the hierachy and will always be the guy to get sacked first if there is bad blood between them.

 

[goin4glory]

Kompany is injured most of the time - and seriously you can't honestly say that anyone would claim Sterling was World-class Before last season

Sterling got sold for £50m on merit (before the market had seen massive inflation) and starts for an incredible City side ahead of quality on merit. He would walk onto our 11.

Debatable.

Assuming his signings continue to play at their current level with no improvement or decline, his scorecard reads like this:

Successes - Zlatan (left), Matic, Pogba, Lukaku.

Flops - Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhi (left), Alexis, Fred.

Developing - Dalot.

Again, I am just assuming Fred and Alexis continue to play at their current levels. Accept that it's too early to say how either of them will shape up, though time is running out for Alexis.

Basically, only 3 successful signings still at the club out of 10. And Matic will need replacing pretty soon. So just 2, and that's assuming Raiola doesn't throw a fit and force a transfer for Pogba.

The new manager will need a new CB, a FB, a DM, a #10, a midfielder or two and a RW. Maybe even a LW if he doesn't fancy Martial, dumps Sanchez and makes Rashford a backup to Lukaku.

I'd say we seriously need a new DoF before we even contemplate scouting for new players.

wow

Yikes. Bailly has been our best defender since he signed and Fred has played 2 games. Very harsh to label them flops. Alexis hasn't been great so far but he's turned up in important games. I'd say Alexis will be about the same as Ibra - pretty good but could have been better.

This is correct and we were able to use Miki in order to sign Sanchez too, so £30m to get a player of his ability is a steal in this market.

I agree that Guardiola 'inherited' a better group of players, as I've already said in this thread. However, what you've just done there is taken a group of players in their present state and then treated that as if it were a given, instead as a contingency which is what it actually is.

I remember vividly the speculation regarding Guardiola's next club on red cafe. The perception about just how 'world class' some of those players were, was anything but uniform. People actually argued that we have just as good a squad (I wasn't one of them). Questions were asked about the concerning age of their squad, the injury proneness, the issues of hunger and desire because they are all mercenaries and so on and so forth. Of course, now that a great manager has made some of that dubious potential an actuality, you can claim that "well he's had it good all along". To say that is to ignore the fact that the manger is actually important part of why some* of those players are still considered 'world class', instead of being talked of as ageing, past it, and dispensable, as they were under Pellegrini.

*And I say some, because whatever Guardiola has achieved he didn't achieve because of any great help from Kompany, who even if you wanted to be charitable and call him world class, simply can't string two games without getting injured. Calling Sterling world class is also highly dubitable, but whatever claim he might have to that description, he does only after and because Guardiola arrived.

Dubious potential? Aguero/Silva/Kompany/KDB? Bayern wanted KDB after he won POTY in Germany but City offered him a huge deal, dubious potential is utter delusion. All the other 3 were undeniable world class performers. People will always have a different standard for world class so the sterling debate won't ever get resolved, so i'll say this then, pep inherited 6 players who would have walked onto our starting 11. Aguero/Silva/KDB/Kompany/Sterling/Fernandinho.

I have no doubt that some posters on here claimed we had a squad that was just as good as city because I've seen people on here actually argue that Cleverly was quality and we should resign Evans/never have sold Welbeck.

Guardiola deserves credit because even though he inherited some great players he's got them breaking records/playing amazing football and generally look like a very well coached team.

What he didn't do was hold onto the total deadwood in the squad which he knew simply wasn't good enough. If United had players like Nasri/Jovetic/Bony/Hart/Clichy/Sagna/Mangala people would be complaining that Mourinho has all these quality guys that cost X amount and he's just a bad coach. Why didn't Pep keep any of these guys? Mangala cost more than Bailly or Lindelof, Joe Hart was Englands number 1 when he arrived, Bony cost more than Miki/Sanchez, I could go on.

City were ruthless in recognising that a decent part of the squad simply wasn't good enough and needed to be replaced, unfortunately we aren't ruthless and it's not being helped with fans claiming that duds who have consistently average like Jones/Smalling/Rojo are going to lead us to a league title.

 

[Handsome Devil]

Could our current predicament ultimately stem from an ancient spat over racehorse jizz?

 

[Barca84]

Could our current predicament ultimately stem from an ancient spat over racehorse jizz?

Yes. All empires fall at some point but with this one this time that was the moment.

 

[Moonwalker]

Dubious potential? Aguero/Silva/Kompany/KDB? Bayern wanted KDB after he won POTY in Germany but City offered him a huge deal, dubious potential is utter delusion. All the other 3 were undeniable world class performers. People will always have a different standard for world class so the sterling debate won't ever get resolved, so i'll say this then, pep inherited 6 players who would have walked onto our starting 11. Aguero/Silva/KDB/Kompany/Sterling/Fernandinho.

I have no doubt that some posters on here claimed we had a squad that was just as good as city because I've seen people on here actually argue that Cleverly was quality and we should resign Evans/never have sold Welbeck.

Guardiola deserves credit because even though he inherited some great players he's got them breaking records/playing amazing football and generally look like a very well coached team.

What he didn't do was hold onto the total deadwood in the squad which he knew simply wasn't good enough. If United had players like Nasri/Jovetic/Bony/Hart/Clichy/Sagna/Mangala people would be complaining that Mourinho has all these quality guys that cost X amount and he's just a bad coach. Why didn't Pep keep any of these guys? Mangala cost more than Bailly or Lindelof, Joe Hart was Englands number 1 when he arrived, Bony cost more than Miki/Sanchez, I could go on.

City were ruthless in recognising that a decent part of the squad simply wasn't good enough and needed to be replaced, unfortunately we aren't ruthless and it's not being helped with fans claiming that duds who have consistently average like Jones/Smalling/Rojo are going to lead us to a league title.

I didn't say dubious because it was my dubium, I said it because people were doubting it. To take one example - There was no question whether David Silva was a world class player at one point, the only question was whether he would sustain his level of form, or tail off into the sunset a la Rooney and Van Persie, hence the question marks. Now if you're gonna ignore your hindsight benefit in that, and say that no matter who the manager was, they would just continue to be world class regardless, then fine, but actually all I wanted to say is that Guardiola deserves a lot of credit for how we now still perceive those players, when it wasn't necessary but contingent.

The deadwood they have in their squad is a by-product of their superior spending power and bad investments, however, none of those players showed any sort of form previously at Manchester City so they aren't really comparable to those players in our squad that are held in high regard by United fans. Jose has a tendency to shun some of these 'duds' in such a way that they turn world class at other clubs, like De Bruyne. His apodictic potential certainly didn't seem that way to Jose Mourinho, did it? Perhaps someone should have pointed out to him how utterly delusional he was for not keeping him at Chelsea. Conversely none of these shit players that Guardiola offloaded have a tendency to re-emerge somewhere as world beaters.

No one thinks Mourinho is a bad manger, it's just that he isn't quite as good as Guardiola, and you can't just explain the entire discrepancy in performance between the two as a function of money.

 

[spwd]

Fact is, for the moaning about transfers this summer, Woodward can literally look at Mourinho and use the Marky Mark line from The Departed: “I’m the guy doing his job, you must be the other guy...”

Woodward and those around him make tons of money for the club and since Fergie retired they’ve spent loads for whatever each manager wanted (almost always).

But obviously Ed isn’t doing his job correctly this year because he overruled one of the best managers ever, the only thing he’s doing right is getting shitloads of sponsorship, the football side of things hes useless and it’s affecting the club greatly.

Sterling got sold for £50m on merit (before the market had seen massive inflation) and starts for an incredible City side ahead of quality on merit. He would walk onto our 11.



wow



This is correct and we were able to use Miki in order to sign Sanchez too, so £30m to get a player of his ability is a steal in this market.



Dubious potential? Aguero/Silva/Kompany/KDB? Bayern wanted KDB after he won POTY in Germany but City offered him a huge deal, dubious potential is utter delusion. All the other 3 were undeniable world class performers. People will always have a different standard for world class so the sterling debate won't ever get resolved, so i'll say this then, pep inherited 6 players who would have walked onto our starting 11. Aguero/Silva/KDB/Kompany/Sterling/Fernandinho.

I have no doubt that some posters on here claimed we had a squad that was just as good as city because I've seen people on here actually argue that Cleverly was quality and we should resign Evans/never have sold Welbeck.

Guardiola deserves credit because even though he inherited some great players he's got them breaking records/playing amazing football and generally look like a very well coached team.

What he didn't do was hold onto the total deadwood in the squad which he knew simply wasn't good enough. If United had players like Nasri/Jovetic/Bony/Hart/Clichy/Sagna/Mangala people would be complaining that Mourinho has all these quality guys that cost X amount and he's just a bad coach. Why didn't Pep keep any of these guys? Mangala cost more than Bailly or Lindelof, Joe Hart was Englands number 1 when he arrived, Bony cost more than Miki/Sanchez, I could go on.

City were ruthless in recognising that a decent part of the squad simply wasn't good enough and needed to be replaced, unfortunately we aren't ruthless and it's not being helped with fans claiming that duds who have consistently average like Jones/Smalling/Rojo are going to lead us to a league title.

Great post, especially the bits about Nasri etc, they were better than what they had previously but they knew they weren’t good enough for where they wanted to be, so they got rid and got better replacements, they didn't allow the ceo or whoever to tell pep that they’re good enough and sit on their hands and say “well hes shit, but I know better than you pep and they’re the best players available in their position “ like Ed just did.


Mourinho hasnt got the best out of some players but how is he expected to when half the time the defenders are injured and make brainfarts every other game, and the other half are either not trying or sulking or keep performing way lower than everyone knows they can because they didn’t have the right attitude or whatever excuse.

We’re so inconsistent because our players are so inconsistent , its not Jose’s fault a professional footballer cant make a ten yard pass or do whatever those performances from Bailly and Lindelof were, he may instruct them to play safe and sideways but its not his fault they cant pick a team mate out from ten yards away.

 

[Coops73]

Could our current predicament ultimately stem from an ancient spat over racehorse jizz?

I’ve said the same thing for years, McManus and Magnier may have sold to the Glazers whether they were mates of Ferguson or not but their subsequent fall out with him over the Rock of Gibraltar crap probably made their decision a lot easier and although we’ve had success with their ownership for me the club hasn’t felt right since they took over and I’m afraid things may only get worse despite their investments into the “Disneyland” us no marks call Manchester United.

 

[goin4glory]

@Moonwalker

David Silva was 29 when Pep took over and had shown no sign of slowing down. Rooney had come off 3 absolutely horrendous seasons for United under Moyes/LVG which had most United fans wanting him gone, it wasn't a shock to any United fans who saw the writing on the wall with Rooney that he was poor for Everton and shipped off to the MLS just one season later. Aguero was even younger than Silva. If the crux of your point is that some posters debated wether or not world class players would continue to perform at a world class level then I'm certainly not going to attribute that to Pep. Messi was world class before Pep arrived and long after. Sticking the cones out on a monday morning does not deserve a lot of credit. This isn't unique to Pep, I'm not giving Zidane credit that Ronaldo continued to perform at a world class level into his 30's either, he's a machine and Zidane had nothing to do with it.

The deadwood in their squad largely resembles the deadwood in our squad, speculative buys that turned out to be very poor. I'll point out that Nasri/Hart had certainly performed at a very high level so there is absolutely a comparison to those players held in high regard by United fans. Who exactly in the United squad Mourinho inherited has he shunned that have performed to the same level as those 2 in the past?

KDB is a case of hindsight is 20/20. First of all he was signed and remained in Genk for 6 months, he then joined Chelsea in the summer who immediately loaned him to Werder Bremen, Mourinho had nothing to do with either of these moves as he wasn't manager at the time. 2013 he stayed at Chelsea under Mourinho for 6 months before leaving, no Chelsea fans were outraged that he wasn't getting into the team ahead of Oscar/Hazard/Willian/Schurrle and no top clubs around Europe showed much interest in him either.

How many of the players that Mourinho has sold at United have re emerged as world beaters elsewhere?

 

[The Purley King]

Sterling got sold for £50m on merit (before the market had seen massive inflation) and starts for an incredible City side ahead of quality on merit. He would walk onto our 11.



wow



This is correct and we were able to use Miki in order to sign Sanchez too, so £30m to get a player of his ability is a steal in this market.



Dubious potential? Aguero/Silva/Kompany/KDB? Bayern wanted KDB after he won POTY in Germany but City offered him a huge deal, dubious potential is utter delusion. All the other 3 were undeniable world class performers. People will always have a different standard for world class so the sterling debate won't ever get resolved, so i'll say this then, pep inherited 6 players who would have walked onto our starting 11. Aguero/Silva/KDB/Kompany/Sterling/Fernandinho.

I have no doubt that some posters on here claimed we had a squad that was just as good as city because I've seen people on here actually argue that Cleverly was quality and we should resign Evans/never have sold Welbeck.

Guardiola deserves credit because even though he inherited some great players he's got them breaking records/playing amazing football and generally look like a very well coached team.

What he didn't do was hold onto the total deadwood in the squad which he knew simply wasn't good enough. If United had players like Nasri/Jovetic/Bony/Hart/Clichy/Sagna/Mangala people would be complaining that Mourinho has all these quality guys that cost X amount and he's just a bad coach. Why didn't Pep keep any of these guys? Mangala cost more than Bailly or Lindelof, Joe Hart was Englands number 1 when he arrived, Bony cost more than Miki/Sanchez, I could go on.

City were ruthless in recognising that a decent part of the squad simply wasn't good enough and needed to be replaced, unfortunately we aren't ruthless and it's not being helped with fans claiming that duds who have consistently average like Jones/Smalling/Rojo are going to lead us to a league title.

Bottom line. Pep inherited better players but shipped out the dross in ruthless fashion got players in who fit his profile and most importantly put his stamp on everything.
Took him a year to sort it out.
We are regressing in our third year.......
We still haven’t sold Darmian ffs. How long do you think he would have lasted under pep?

 

[Moonwalker]

@Moonwalker

David Silva was 29 when Pep took over and had shown no sign of slowing down. Rooney had come off 3 absolutely horrendous seasons for United under Moyes/LVG which had most United fans wanting him gone, it wasn't a shock to any United fans who saw the writing on the wall with Rooney that he was poor for Everton and shipped off to the MLS just one season later. Aguero was even younger than Silva. If the crux of your point is that some posters debated wether or not world class players would continue to perform at a world class level then I'm certainly not going to attribute that to Pep. Messi was world class before Pep arrived and long after. Sticking the cones out on a monday morning does not deserve a lot of credit. This isn't unique to Pep, I'm not giving Zidane credit that Ronaldo continued to perform at a world class level into his 30's either, he's a machine and Zidane had nothing to do with it.

The deadwood in their squad largely resembles the deadwood in our squad, speculative buys that turned out to be very poor. I'll point out that Nasri/Hart had certainly performed at a very high level so there is absolutely a comparison to those players held in high regard by United fans. Who exactly in the United squad Mourinho inherited has he shunned that have performed to the same level as those 2 in the past?

KDB is a case of hindsight is 20/20. First of all he was signed and remained in Genk for 6 months, he then joined Chelsea in the summer who immediately loaned him to Werder Bremen, Mourinho had nothing to do with either of these moves as he wasn't manager at the time. 2013 he stayed at Chelsea under Mourinho for 6 months before leaving, no Chelsea fans were outraged that he wasn't getting into the team ahead of Oscar/Hazard/Willian/Schurrle and no top clubs around Europe showed much interest in him either.

How many of the players that Mourinho has sold at United have re emerged as world beaters elsewhere?

Just go back and read what people were writing about David Silva at the time. The Rooney tangent is completely pointless if you don't acknowledge the role bad managers might have played in his decline. I've given two players off the top of my head just to illustrate the banal fact that it's not a given that a player will continue to be world class into his thirties even if he previously was. If you're gonna construct an a priori It was always gonna turn out that way, then no amount of individual cases can persuade you. It's an exercise in futility, because it's just an unfalsifiable stance. You're impervious to the concept of contingency.

What you wrote about De Bruyne is errant nonsense. You can google what was said about him at the time and what the fans thought, and you'll realise (if you're honest) that he was hot property and highly sought after. Everyone seemed to have been aware of it but Mourinho.

 

[Neo_Mufc]

Glad to see Gaz digging into Ed on MNF.

 

[Beaucoup]

Bottom line. Pep inherited better players but shipped out the dross in ruthless fashion got players in who fit his profile and most importantly put his stamp on everything.
Took him a year to sort it out.
We are regressing in our third year.......
We still haven’t sold Darmian ffs. How long do you think he would have lasted under pep?

It could be argued that Pep didn’t have as big a rebuild on his hands, and he also bought some stinkers like Bravo, Nolito and Danilo, difference being he had the finances to replace two of them straight away, he bought Stones for big money, clearly isn’t 100% sold on him and then brought in Laporte for big money. He also has the luxury or spending big on bit part players.

We still have Darmian, because we simply can’t go out and spend 130m on fullbacks

Where we are now, as far as building a squad is concerned is probably where City were 2 yrs ago, and let’s not sugar coat it, they were also pretty shit.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Glad to see Gaz digging into Ed on MNF.

Good. What did he say?

 

[Bastian]

Glad to see Gaz digging into Ed on MNF.

What's he saying?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Bottom line. Pep inherited better players but shipped out the dross in ruthless fashion got players in who fit his profile and most importantly put his stamp on everything.
Took him a year to sort it out.
We are regressing in our third year.......
We still haven’t sold Darmian ffs. How long do you think he would have lasted under pep?

Who is responsible for not clearing out the dead wood?

Dead Woodward?

*I'll get my coat*

 

[VanGaalyTime]

Who is responsible for not clearing out the dead wood?

Dead Woodward?

*I'll get my coat*

Exactly. Why do people think it's Mou's responsibilty to sell players? It's insane how Woodward and the Glazers escape blame.

 

[Dumbat12]

Bottom line. Pep inherited better players but shipped out the dross in ruthless fashion got players in who fit his profile and most importantly put his stamp on everything.
Took him a year to sort it out.
We are regressing in our third year.......
We still haven’t sold Darmian ffs. How long do you think he would have lasted under pep?

Is that really down to Mourinho or Woodward? We know for a fact that Mourinho wants to sell Darmian, he even said it in the media. We can also be pretty sure he wanted to sell Shaw and probably our entire defense. Pep has full control of the club, Mourinho does not. He relies on Woodward and Woodward doesn't want to sell these players because that will mean some investment which he doesn't want.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Lack of investments this summer still confuse me. We compete against team who buy for 50-60 mil backup players for their manager. When he says that he wants full backs they buy him 3. So only way to compete with that is to give your manager what he wants. Board decided against it. So what is our( ed's) plan for future? Top 4 until sheikh decides to sell club?
Yes we must play better and jose must do this and that but in reality whoever is our manager, only way is to have world class team.

 

[Neo_Mufc]

Good. What did he say?

What's he saying?

I don't remember the whole piece entirely but to summarise he's basically reiterating what some have said here and what Carragher said.


Why back Jose midway through his contract with an extension knowing that he requires players but not get them for him. Mentioned about the commercial success but that we need more focus on the footballing success.