Great post @Enigma_87 ❤
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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I think he can be blamed for what happened when Van Gaal left at least, it showed that there's no coherent vision. He should have known Van Gaal was a short term appointment given his age and propensity to fall out with people, the whole logic of getting "philosophy" driven manager like that should have been to give time to the club to find a younger version who would also want a lot of possession but have more progressive ideas of how to press and be more ruthless in the final third (e.g. Guardiola, Tuchel, Pochettino etc). None of those might have succeeded but it would have shown an overriding plan.
Instead Woodward was briefing the press in early December 2015 that Van Gaal was a genius and they were planning to extend his contract. A few days later we were out of the Champions League and by the end of the month his job was almost untenable. Naturally no succession plan was in place so we just went after the biggest name (Mourinho) who was available following probably the worst (half) season by any high profile manager in modern times.
I think Mourinho has done a very ordinary job, I didn't want him as I don't like him, I don't like his football and it's now got to the stage that I turn off when the manager of the club is talking because I can't deal with his moodiness and continual horseshit. However he is here because of Woodward having no plan and part of the reason he's so moody is because his chief executive hasn't bought the players he wanted yet also seemingly hasn't agreed on alternative targets with him.
Re 8) - you can add Ramos, Vidal and Lewandowski. Great when it comes off (Pogba) but on most occasions it just makes the team look incompetent. Meanwhile, there are many players who would suit the United system available but United don't seem interested unless it fits their target age (23-26) or marketing goals. This season we'll see how Maguire does, but there will be others who will develop and we'll again be linked with a crazy bid. Someone like Tarkowski from Burnley, as an example (not him specifically). We'll also see many right wingers that changed teams this summer become highly rated as the season progresses. It's not just Woodward I blame (but he's a leading problem) but the entire scouting network and structure at the club. What is the point in Jose providing his targets, (and presumably the scouts providing their information) at the start of the summer if this information isn't utilized?
Look, I'm not totally writing off this season just yet. If nothing else, even if it's rubbish and we collapse due to injuries with our limited squad, we might seem youngsters develop. But something is definitely wrong with our approach to transfers. And any business owner in their right mind would change it immediately.
Woodward is a effin Flip Flop.
I agree with this. Apart from leaving LvG's sacking too late (He should have walked in January), Ed has tried his best to correct the Moyes disaster and generally made what were good managerial appointments at the time.
His only area of failure is transfers. This gallivanting around Europe looking for Bale, Varane and other ungettable targets has to stop. In addition, a proper scouting network + DoF is needed to offer the manager alternative targets when his first choices are rejected.
What was the process of manager appointment? Which parameters? What kind of football the club want to play?
I think Woodward just looking in wikipedia, and selecting the free manager with most titles. Football management not working like that.
I'm not surprised that Zidane named as candidate. Again just managers with many trophies.
But no one is asking if he capable to build team. In Real he didn't need to.
Who will build this Man Utd to team? Woody?
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This is the issue. Not that he didn't agree with the list of targets at CB, RW and, presumably, LB that Jose submitted, but that he then didn't bother to discuss alternatives in the market with him. Instead he's been happy to brief the press to make sure they know he didn't buy because Jose's list was too old and expensive to make sure the blame shifts elsewhere.
Meanwhile top talents at positions of need like Malcom moved for a relative pittance in the window. If you're gonna whine about a lack of vision and long term planning, maybr exhibit some of it on your own. If you're entirely dependent on the manager to direct your targets in the market, then back him. If not move on and get somebody with a vision in line with what you want.
Jose isn't perfect at all, but Woodward and the board are the overarching problem creating the football issues plaguing the club.
Exactly mate.
Keep Woodward on to do the business side of the club, he's a genuinely world class out and has revolutionised the methods you can use to earn money out of a large global fanbase. So keep Ed as a the CEO or whatever his position is and bring in a top class director of football to work with Jose for transfer targets.
I think your half right. However, Jose doesn’t know the cost of players, the club only knows that once they open a dialogue with the clubs.
There doesn’t always have to be someone to blame.
The club worked through Jose’s list, and found all were not viable transfers/ or too expensive. That doesn’t then mean we go to our 6,7,8,9 choice CB - we have good players there already (not great), and if there’s no-one realistically available who are better and worth paying for, let’s stick with what we have got. Other opportunities will come up.
I guess you missed the part that we didn't even inquire for some players like Toby, cause they were swatted aside by Ed, being deemed not good enough.
No I didn’t. This is according to one article, whereas others state that we had conversations throughout the summer, but spurs wanted too much money. We can’t beleive much of what is written, and we can twist is either way based on spurious journalism.
I refuse to believe that Jose asked for Toby, and Woodward decided that he didn’t want him and didn’t even bother to make a call. I expect he enquired and was quoted an outrageous price.
The club knows the cost of players. When that cost far exceeds their valuation that doesn't mean you don't address shortcomings with the squad.
I also don't care very much that they didn't add another CB in this scenario. However RW and LB were also positions of need they neglected in the market. RW in particular was a position in which options were available that fit their supposed long-term vision like Malcom (21) and Mahrez (27). They also didn't show much interested in a player like Bailey (20) who hasn't moved yet in this window, but certainly seems gettable.
Again, I don't care if they disagree with Jose's list and preferred options, but the issue doesn't end there. If you want to be part of the decision making with transfers you have to bring something to the table beyond simply making or not making deals for players the manager has shortlisted.
Albeit Poch also saying they have received no offers for their players in recent presser?
That doesn’t change anything, if Levy tells Utd that the only fee they will accept in (for example) £75m - then it’s more than reasonable we don’t even make a bid. Why spend time and effort on a player who has been out of of reasonable reach.
My impression is that FM bids like 'here is 30m, no we want 60m, what about 42m, no we want 50m, okay' don't happen in real world. More like CEOs have their own evaluation, they sit together for a few hours (or days) until they reach a deal. Then an official bid is made and the transfer goes.
If Levy said, 70m or Martial otherwise there is no point to discuss about it, then it makes no sense for us to start bidding.
Exactly this.
Well, apparently he went full FM mode in 2014 for Muller, which irritated Rummenige and kind of made Ed a meme figure.Has that ever stopped Ed before?
Of course, that was his second summer and since then he has signed 20+ players or so, including some very big deals for which the media had no idea that they were happening until the last day. He might be a bit wiser than he was when he started the job.
Like Bale this very Summer?
Or even Godin if we're to believe reports?
We signed 1 player a CM and a young full back who is also injured at the start of the season. The man has clearly no plan B.
Leaking the press we wanted Varane and were prepared to spend 100m on him. Come on mate...
Not sure how many still defend him.
We never made a bid for Bale bar in 2013 when we offered more than Madrid.Like Bale this very Summer?
Or even Godin if we're to believe reports?
We signed 1 player a CM and a young full back who is also injured at the start of the season. The man has clearly no plan B.
Leaking the press we wanted Varane and were prepared to spend 100m on him. Come on mate...
Not sure how many still defend him.
On Godin's case, he had a cheap clause, so if he had accepted to come here, Atletico wouldn't have been able to stop him. He used us to get a better contract, but you cannot stop trying to get top players cause they might be using us to get a new contract on their clubs.
On general, as far as I know, it isn't common to make an official bid without having an agreement on principle. Unless it is a release clause, but even then, as a matter of courtesy, clubs talk with each other instead of just exercising the clause. Unless it it with Bilbao, of course. feck them!
Like Bale this very Summer?
Or even Godin if we're to believe reports?
We signed 1 player a CM and a young full back who is also injured at the start of the season. The man has clearly no plan B.
Leaking the press we wanted Varane and were prepared to spend 100m on him. Come on mate...
Not sure how many still defend him.
Sometimes I wonder if fans are just stupid. Lol.
What difference does it make that a player is injured for a month; The Bale saga lasted 2 weeks if that. Godin if reports are true just wanted a new contract we hardly chased him.
Varane was obviously an example of what the boards plan of value for money was, no where did they say he was a realistic or main target.
To be honest I don't really believe that mate. Bale did bring some controversy over his future and IMO we were interested in him this Summer.
We vetoed Willian and apart from him or Bale I don't think we either had another RW option. So again we either didn't have a plan B(considering if you don't want to buy Willian due to age it's only Bale that remains).
If we're going with personal insults mate, I'm not sure if some fans bother to read what the manager actually says, or what the press release with that Varane example was. Mourinho was banging the whole pre-season that he lacks players in certain position and that some players lack training and you buy nobody bar a CM with the season already starting.
Don't bother responding if you don't have anything constructive to say.
Ed didnt blow anything. It's easy to be a smartass now how it turned out but in more cases he will be right. He was more 45m punds though and at the time it was a high price for a player like him. Mourinho blew it when he splashed money on fecking Lindelof who is not even better than our academy product Axel Tuanzebe, and injury and error prone E. Bailly, surely he will get another money for another CB now
I have to respond because it’s like you can’t see logic when it’s right in front of you. So because the players lacked training we had to buy players to replace the ones that lacked training but would evidently be back. That’s as dumb as him saying he can’t implement new tactics until the players returned.
He had 5 targets supposedly and the bored veoted those that were unattainable due to price and business sense. Yes they probably could have backed him but as far as they was concerned the extra £100m it would have cost would have probably got them 2nd in the league and another speech about Heritage.
its not the signings that im even that bothered about. What is worrying is how we just can't get rid of the deadwood which is about 50% of the squad. We even had the blessing of Fellaini's contract being over yet we decide to keep players of his nature. We refuse to get rid of the bench warmers. I would rather we sack 50% of the squad and just play kids. Team would honestly be so much better
You really that gullible mate? We had to buy players because your manager addresses 5 key positions we have shortage in. The manager moans that he doesn't even has a backup striker and has to play Alexis up top.
Even Alexis comes up and says the club needs to bring more class players in.
You ok with going into a season where we are in 4 competitions without addressing key positions in CB, LB, RW, ST(backup) and bringing a 19 years old who by all accounts we knew would miss the start of the season?
I'm not against signing young players and players like Dalot, but we're in the same cycle since Fergie left - buying young and unproven players who turn average and then we need to ship them.
Do you like our transfer success rate before Jose?
Is Rashford not a striker?
Wasn't very good playing up top last season. His best should be as a wide forward where he can put his pace and trickery to a good use.
Should play more on the right mind and that's one on Jose.
I fully agree with this, but..and here's the caveat..those were three HUGE mistakes, not just in personality but in the order they were hired. Jose should have been hired after Fergie if at all for the best case scenario. He'd probably have won the league the year after with that title-winning team (and borught in more than Fellaini vs Dithering Dave), bought a few overpriced stars then vamoosed. Moyes was a disaster that set us back 3 years - we lost our invulnerability and reputation for ruthlesness that year. LvG another that set us back another year overall, at which point we lost our ability to attack and score goals - teams were completely over us as a team to be afraid of. Mou applied his usual 30-year old band-aids & negative football tourniquet, but we're still bleeding and no surgery has been done. Now as he leaves with his first aid kit and a whole lot of doctor fees we will still have to do the surgery that was required from year one at greater cost. There had to be along-term strategy..it was tried with Moyes failed miserably then we've been short-terming it ever since.
Woodward wants to keep the young, marketable valuable players that Jose doesn't have teh patience to cuddle and coach, but this half-way house serves neither the short-term ro long-term. We';ve gone back into the limbo of LvG's last season.
The thing is nothing much will change if we get top 4 this year - Jose probably has no other big jobs/clubs willing to touch him with a 10 foot pole,and all the well-known progressive modern coaches have all been taken while we danced with the devils of lvG and Mou. We might have to take this for the next 2 seasons unless (a) Jose prefers to get the pay-off and tries a meltdown (b) Pochettinno gets fed up on the shoestring budget at Spurs (c) we actually start to use our scouts not just for players but coaches and find a diamond somewhere.
We have 6 CB’s and 2LB’s we are not short. Lukaku is not out for the season he’s just not match fit because he did well in a World Cup. But so what so is Harry Kane, Jesus and Firmino. Alexis played upfront for the last two season it’s hardly forgreign to him.
Our policy is totally different from 5 years ago we hardly are just signing Nick Powell’s. But this alone is the reason I won’t be able to talk sense into you. Your lost with your views on our transfers. You must want us to have a world class 11.
Ok, mere speculation but what if Ed was acting under tacit instructions from the Glazers not to invest any more in players because they have had enough and were maybe entertaining takeover bids from interested parties? They have also curtailed any plans to improve the stadium, after all, might not be their problem in near future.
There could be secret negotiations going on outside the scrutiny of the media. This may not be as far fetched as it seems because Ed has pulled off some signings in the past while blindsiding the media.
It might be wishful thinking on my part but how long can the Glazers go on with this business model, content to eventually let our bitter rivals outstrip us?
I'm just surmising so roast me if you like!
There could be secret negotiations going on outside the scrutiny of the media. This may not be as far fetched as it seems because Ed has pulled off some signings in the past while blindsiding the media.
It might be wishful thinking on my part but how long can the Glazers go on with this business model, content to eventually let our bitter rivals outstrip us?
I'm just surmising so roast me if you like!
Apparently that is what Woodward wants if we're going by his press leaks - going for 100m rated players or bust.
You are failing to grasp the idea of going into a season short on not one but 2-3 positions that not only the manager is aware of but every United fan and his dog have recycled over the last year, but as I've said don't let that stop you talking sense.
This is factually wrong on several levels. Woodward was miles away from escaping blame, half the internet was full of jokes regarding his departure from the tour to Australia on "urgent transfer business" and "where is Woodward now". It wasn't until the season was over that people started looking at Moyes and arguing that maybe Woodwards role in all of it wasn't so bad after all.
Regarding Fellaini, this is what Moyes said:
"I never wanted Marouane Fellaini to be my first Manchester United signing, that is the last thing me and my staff wanted.
"We looked at Nemanja Matic first. He did not do well at Chelsea and had gone back to Benfica.
I am not sure how much blame should be pinned on Woodward for that transfer window, considering Moyes was worried about Fellaini being the first signing as it would be the wrong signal...It's a bit telling that the manager is worried about things like that, instead of just focusing on getting the player as early as possible and integrating him to into the squad. It more or less seems that Woodward was trying to deliver the players Moyes wanted, but the issue was the players he had identified.
Agreed if only we appointed Jose when we should have. We would have been on 22 titles by now even though probably requiring a rebuild as we speak. But would have been worth it.
Players? One player in a position where we had 6 already. To me that makes sense. We are always going to be short so what. City are short in positions too, doesn’t stop them going for the title again.
It wasn’t just one position but whatever mate. Let’s see how the season will pan out and we can discuss afterward.
Sorry if I might have sounded more offensive during the last remarks, was never my intention.
The reason why Zidane would join United is simple €£$ money he was on 9M at Madrid for wining 3 CLs back to back not 16M for wining 0 !
Don't understimate how much of a draw Man
aging Man United in the PL is plus to be given more freedom to do the job they way he wants without Perez constant interferrences! But Hey the new season starts so I'm supporting Jose and United Tonight 100% with the hope he will play the brand of football he played early season last year, What did he say " You have to let Horses run free!"
Average out that spend over the duration of time they've been in charge and look at our wage to turnover ration and it doesn't speak for itself. The larger spends followed years of underspending.
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