Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

[OleGunnar20]

It's like we're trying to reinvent the wheel while insisting that it has to be an isosceles triangle.

Look at what city have done. Look at the results. Learn and implement ya numpties it's not that complicated is it.

 

[clarkydaz]

Woodward led us a dance for 18 months about a DOF, now after signing a young lad from swansea cheap, we dont need one anymore. Guy is a complete blag artist

 

[Fluctuation0161]

We aren't going to return to the top by copying and pasting another clubs structure, besides it's such a plastic thing to do.

The reason City did it is because they don't have a history or culture to return to or rebuild, they're a clean slate trying to build one, but when Guardiola leaves it'll fall apart within 5 years at best (probably immediately) and they'll then try to copy whoever else is successful at that time.

We're a completely different prospect, we need to rebuild our club not build one from scratch, we should do this in our own way not by trying to copy someone else's success. I seriously doubt just transplanting another clubs management structure would work for us anyway, we're simply too big a club to begin with.

Times change. As long as our philosophy is an attacking one that brings through youth then it can be the United philosophy.

 

[red thru&thru]

Times change. As long as our philosophy is an attacking one that brings through youth then it can be the United philosophy.

Our most successful periods as a club have always been this philosophy. We just need to get the best people to allow to implement it.

 

[Cassidy]

Our most successful periods as a club have always been this philosophy. We just need to get the best people to allow to implement it.

Some of those people are at clubs that have been mentioned, United are not the only club on the planet to successfully adopt such a philosophy

First and foremost though, identifying managers who fit that philosophy both current and successful and up and coming (because you need to be keeping tabs on who your next manager is going to be at all times) is something that should obviously not be done by anyone currently at the club...

 

[sunama]

We are not hiring a DOF.

I think most of us worked this out a couple of years ago, mate.
Unfortunately, there are some very young fans who don't understand that adults lie, too.

 

[JPRouve]

Some of those people are at clubs that have been mentioned, United are not the only club on the planet to successfully adopt such a philosophy

First and foremost though, identifying managers who fit that philosophy both current and successful and up and coming (because you need to be keeping tabs on who your next manager is going to be at all times) is something that should obviously not be done by anyone currently at the club...

That's my number one criteria and to be honest I criticize the club but over the years I have completely failed to name anyone outside of Tuchel when he was at Dortmund. I'm curious to see more from Nagelsmann with a bigger budget but after that I have no idea about who is the best candidate.

 

[Cassidy]

That's my number one criteria and to be honest I criticize the club but over the years I have completely failed to name anyone outside of Tuchel when he was at Dortmund. I'm curious to see more from Nagelsmann with a bigger budget but after that I have no idea about who is the best candidate.

Well for one it isn't your day job...
However I didn't mean in the sense that they were reading to hire, but there should be a watch list of managers which at present would include the likes of Nagelsmann, Rose etc
The most important thing though is to know the list of managers that fit the philosophy, track their progress etc

I don't get the feeling the club know that list given our track record of hiring.

 

[red thru&thru]

Some of those people are at clubs that have been mentioned, United are not the only club on the planet to successfully adopt such a philosophy

First and foremost though, identifying managers who fit that philosophy both current and successful and up and coming (because you need to be keeping tabs on who your next manager is going to be at all times) is something that should obviously not be done by anyone currently at the club...

Such as which people?

Manager should come after the DoF, not before.

 

[JPRouve]

Well for one it isn't your day job...
However I didn't mean in the sense that they were reading to hire, but there should be a watch list of managers which at present would include the likes of Nagelsmann, Rose etc
The most important thing though is to know the list of managers that fit the philosophy, track their progress etc

I don't get the feeling the club know that list given our track record of hiring.

Firstly, it's true but it's always nice to have an idea or believe that you know better. As for the second part, that's how I understood your post and I totally agree but this club doesn't seem to anticipate anything which is why I want a DOF, I want someone at the club that has for only job to anticipate and work on the mid to long term instead of focusing on keeping his job on a week to week basis.

 

[Cassidy]

Firstly, it's true but it's always nice to have an idea or believe that you know better. As for the second part, that's how I understood your post and I totally agree but this club doesn't seem to anticipate anything which is why I want a DOF, I want someone at the club that has for only job to anticipe and work on the mid to long term instead of focusing on keeping his job on a week to week basis.

Pretty much my thoughts too

 

[Rhyme Animal]

They obviously don't want an independent thinker / expert coming in and seeing what they've been up to with the club (and then it becoming clear to the fans).

They're just trying to blag it and buy time until they piss off, imo.

They need to be driven out - starting with Woodward.

 

[Cassidy]

Such as which people?

Manager should come after the DoF, not before.

That is what I am saying...
It was mentioned before that we shouldn't be looking to do what City did and bring in the backroom team from another club because we apparently have our own philosophy which is only unique to United.

The point I was attempting to make was that

1. Being successful by investing in youth and playing attacking football is not unique to United
2. There are plenty of clubs who adopt the same philosophy and have been successful and we should be looking to poach staff from said clubs

Where that be a DOF or a technical director, sporting director, head of recruitment, scouting departments heads or whatever we need

 

[Bepi]

If you had gone for the Marotta (DoF) & Conte (coach) combo, you’d be in top 4 already. But no... as a truly incredible banned user happily used to say many times here on the cafe, Conte could only be appointed as Mourinho’s assistant at mighty United, while Marotta could only work as a clerk for a very strong owner.

 

[red thru&thru]

That is what I am saying...
It was mentioned before that we shouldn't be looking to do what City did and bring in the backroom team from another club because we apparently have our own philosophy which is only unique to United.

The point I was attempting to make was that

1. Being successful by investing in youth and playing attacking football is not unique to United
2. There are plenty of clubs who adopt the same philosophy and have been successful and we should be looking to poach staff from said clubs

Where that be a DOF or a technical director, sporting director, head of recruitment, scouting departments heads or whatever we need

Oh, apologise. I agree with what you have said, it is not about reinventing the wheel, it's just about making it better.

But all these discussions keep coming back to the same people, Ed and the board. We need to do something for them to change.

 

[The Irish Connection]

The lad Paul Mitchell who is currently at RB Leipzig is the perfect candidate, and it’s shocking that we’ve barely been linked with him.
He grew up in Manchester for one!
But importantly, he is very experienced in the roll, and worked for Southampton and Tottenham who have strong track records of bringing good youth through.

Him and Pochetinno or Nagelsmann would give us a good chance of getting back to the top.

 

[red thru&thru]

The lad Paul Mitchell who is currently at RB Leipzig is the perfect candidate, and it’s shocking that we’ve barely been linked with him.
He grew up in Manchester for one!
But importantly, he is very experienced in the roll, and worked for Southampton and Tottenham who have strong track records of bringing good youth through.

Him and Pochetinno or Nagelsmann would give us a good chance of getting back to the top.

He hasn't worked as a DoF.

 

[The Irish Connection]

He hasn't worked as a DoF.

Head of recruitment? Similar roles really, he would handle transfers and contracts and make sure we sign the correct players for a certain style of play, plus he has good football knowledge. Him working together with Ole as technical director if you want to be pedantic.
He would take the football decisions away from Ed Woodward in an ideal world and ensure continuity if a manager doesn’t work out.

Get him in.

 

[Cassidy]

The lad Paul Mitchell who is currently at RB Leipzig is the perfect candidate, and it’s shocking that we’ve barely been linked with him.
He grew up in Manchester for one!
But importantly, he is very experienced in the roll, and worked for Southampton and Tottenham who have strong track records of bringing good youth through.

Him and Pochetinno or Nagelsmann would give us a good chance of getting back to the top.

We were heavily linked with him for about a year, and his club promoted him

 

[red thru&thru]

Head of recruitment? Similar roles really, he would handle transfers and contracts and make sure we sign the correct players for a certain style of play, plus he has good football knowledge. Him working together with Ole as technical director if you want to be pedantic.
He would take the football decisions away from Ed Woodward in an ideal world and ensure continuity if a manager doesn’t work out.

Get him in.

You may want to go away and understand what a DoF is. From your reply, you haven't quite grasped what they do at a club.

 

[The Irish Connection]

We were heavily linked with him for about a year, and his club promoted him

I wouldn’t say heavily, but linked yes. He is quoted as saying he is ‘flattered ‘ and ‘a Manchester lad’, so why can’t we go and get him?
(Obviously Woodward doesn’t want to appoint anyone)

 

[The Irish Connection]

You may want to go away and understand what a DoF is. From your reply, you haven't quite grasped what they do at a club.

Ok. Can you explain briefly what a director of football does and I will check to see whether it is what I understand it to be?

 

[Johan07]

You may want to go away and understand what a DoF is. From your reply, you haven't quite grasped what they do at a club.

The problem with what you just stated is that there is not a clear answer to the question. A DoF can have very different work assignments at different clubs. Its not like the powers of a DoF is statuted by law or anything. Its different from club to club. So its actually a very valid question that was posed to you. You should take some time and try to answer it coherently.

 

[Cassidy]

I wouldn’t say heavily, but linked yes. He is quoted as saying he is ‘flattered ‘ and ‘a Manchester lad’, so why can’t we go and get him?
(Obviously Woodward doesn’t want to appoint anyone)

Do not disagree

 

[JPRouve]

Head of recruitment? Similar roles really, he would handle transfers and contracts and make sure we sign the correct players for a certain style of play, plus he has good football knowledge. Him working together with Ole as technical director if you want to be pedantic.
He would take the football decisions away from Ed Woodward in an ideal world and ensure continuity if a manager doesn’t work out.

Get him in.

For Woodward it would change nothing, currently football decisions are mainly taken by the manager, Butt and allegedly Murtough and since Woodward is the CEO no one take any decision away from him at the exception of the owners. Now fair questions would be, what is the dynamic between Ole, Murtough, Woodward and Butt? Who has the initiative and in which domains? After answering those questions you should be able to determine if the club needs a DOF and what role he should precisely have.

 

[red thru&thru]

Ok. Can you explain briefly what a director of football does and I will check to see whether it is what I understand it to be?

Here you go...

What is a director of football?

A director of football is an executive employed by a football club to oversee medium and long-term strategy. They work with owners and the manager to identify a club philosophy and ensure it is implemented. The aim is to ensure that the club remains on the right path and is not forced into short-term measures.

At Old Trafford, a director of football would be tasked with implementing a 'United Way', which would set out what the club expects, what behaviours it looks for from players and what values best represent United. They would influence the style of football, from the academy to the first team.

Be in charge of the recruiting the footballing staff. Head up contract negotiations for players contracts...all with the blessing of the CEO.

 

[red thru&thru]

The problem with what you just stated is that there is not a clear answer to the question. A DoF can have very different work assignments at different clubs. Its not like the powers of a DoF is statuted by law or anything. Its different from club to club. So its actually a very valid question that was posed to you. You should take some time and try to answer it coherently.

Done. Thank you for your reply.

 

[The Irish Connection]

The problem with what you just stated is that there is not a clear answer to the question. A DoF can have very different work assignments at different clubs. Its not like the powers of a DoF is statuted by law or anything. Its different from club to club. So its actually a very valid question that was posed to you. You should take some time and try to answer it coherently.

Exactly, thanks. Basically, we want someone to come in and leave the coaching to the coach/manager and focus on using the transfer budget well and targeting the right players for a continuous style of play. Get someone in with good football knowledge and experience in similar roles to take the decision making away from the likes of Woodward.
The fact that Mitchell is from Manchester is a bonus. If we were serious we would get him.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Here you go...

What is a director of football?

A director of football is an executive employed by a football club to oversee medium and long-term strategy. They work with owners and the manager to identify a club philosophy and ensure it is implemented. The aim is to ensure that the club remains on the right path and is not forced into short-term measures.

At Old Trafford, a director of football would be tasked with implementing a 'United Way', which would set out what the club expects, what behaviours it looks for from players and what values best represent United. They would influence the style of football, from the academy to the first team.

Be in charge of the recruiting the footballing staff. Head up contract negotiations for players contracts...all with the blessing of the CEO.

“In other cases, the role of the director of football may include control over transfer dealings and targets and aspects outside coaching and squad selection, which are handled by the manager.”

And yes, exactly what I thought, in helping to implement a long term style of play despite changes in coaches, by targeting the right players from youth to first team.
He could work together with someone also as technical director to solidify the playing style/philosophy.

 

[red thru&thru]

“In other cases, the role of the director of football may include control over transfer dealings and targets and aspects outside coaching and squad selection, which are handled by the manager.”

And yes, exactly what I thought, in helping to implement a long term style of play despite changes in coaches, by targeting the right players from youth to first team.
He could work together with someone also as technical director to solidify the playing style/philosophy.

But you originally said just head of recruitment. That's not just what a DoF would be doing. He would have to be in charge of all the staff. Getting in the correct coaches, scouts etc. Mitchell has mainly worked as a head scout, who doesn't have to deal with all the other stuff mentioned.

But anyway, I've been singing the praises of Mitchell for a long time and been saying he should be included in our set up.

 

[The Irish Connection]

For Woodward it would change nothing, currently football decisions are mainly taken by the manager, Butt and allegedly Murtough and since Woodward is the CEO no one take any decision away from him at the exception of the owners. Now fair questions would be, what is the dynamic between Ole, Murtough, Woodward and Butt? Who has the initiative and in which domains? After answering those questions you should be able to determine if the club needs a DOF and what role he should precisely have.

Yes. In an ideal world, Woodward sets a rough budget and then leaves the scouting and recruitment to Mitchell and the manager. But it clearly won’t happen because the Glazers and Woodward want to hold the reigns.

 

[thomas porter]

Ed Woodward appoints Ed Woodward to be the new Director of Football...shocker.

 

[The Irish Connection]

But you originally said just head of recruitment. That's not just what a DoF would be doing. He would have to be in charge of all the staff. Getting in the correct coaches, scouts etc. Mitchell has mainly worked as a head scout, who doesn't have to deal with all the other stuff mentioned.

No, I said director of football. But it’s a title that covers a lot of different roles like Johan7 said, so can vary. Mitchell has worked as head of recruitment, so he would be in charge of recruiting youth team players to first team and also coaches.
He has a good track record of this role for teams who have brought through good young talent and has spotted potential.
All of that would cover the club philosophy.
Anyway, it’s unlikely to happen so we’ll leave it there.

 

[Johan07]

Here you go...

What is a director of football?

A director of football is an executive employed by a football club to oversee medium and long-term strategy. They work with owners and the manager to identify a club philosophy and ensure it is implemented. The aim is to ensure that the club remains on the right path and is not forced into short-term measures.

At Old Trafford, a director of football would be tasked with implementing a 'United Way', which would set out what the club expects, what behaviours it looks for from players and what values best represent United. They would influence the style of football, from the academy to the first team.

Be in charge of the recruiting the footballing staff. Head up contract negotiations for players contracts...all with the blessing of the CEO.

So do you believe that this is what Martin Edwards at Liverpool is doing? Serious question. Really?
IMO its not. The role of a DoF is exaggerated. There is not one club (maybe City is close to becoming one) in the UK that has applied a similar system to Ajax or Barcelona. Who are actually anomalies in the world of football. And thats what you are describing. A system that no PL-clubs actually apply and people still think that it will change everything for us?
The idea of that a DoF would change how the club operates and especially performance instantly is naive.
And I am saying this as someone that would like a DoF at the club but also a complete rethink towards a Barcelona/Ajax setup. If not the latter the first is useless.
If we want a DoF we could just give Matt Judge the title. Would it change things? Naw, probably not.

 

[mav_9me]

Forget the titles.

What I would say is we need a football man/ or football men in charge of football matters who should oversee football philosophy, hiring managers and recruiting players. In that you can have different people do different things but bottomline Woodward should not be in charge of these things.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Forget the titles.

What I would say is we need a football man/ or football men in charge of football matters who should oversee football philosophy, hiring managers and recruiting players. In that you can have different people do different things but bottomline Woodward should not be in charge of these things.

Exactly. Paul Mitchell for me would be a big appointment for us.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes. In an ideal world, Woodward sets a rough budget and then leaves the scouting and recruitment to Mitchell and the manager. But it clearly won’t happen because the Glazers and Woodward want to hold the reigns.

You see that is for me the problem in these conversations. The Glazers and Woodward are respectively the owners and the CEO, there isn't a scenario where these people whoever they are don't hold the reigns, whatever the structure within the club this will be true even if the Glazers and Woodward didn't exist.

 

[red thru&thru]

No, I said director of football. But it’s a title that covers a lot of different roles like Johan7 said, so can vary. Mitchell has worked as head of recruitment, so he would be in charge of recruiting youth team players to first team and also coaches.
He has a good track record of this role for teams who have brought through good young talent and has spotted potential.
All of that would cover the club philosophy.
Anyway, it’s unlikely to happen so we’ll leave it there.

So do you believe that this is what Martin Edwards at Liverpool is doing? Serious question. Really?
IMO its not. The role of a DoF is exaggerated. There is not one club (maybe City is close to becoming one) in the UK that has applied a similar system to Ajax or Barcelona. Who are actually anomalies in the world of football. And thats what you are describing. A system that no PL-clubs actually apply and people still think that it will change everything for us?
The idea of that a DoF would change how the club operates and especially performance instantly is naive.
And I am saying this as someone that would like a DoF at the club but also a complete rethink towards a Barcelona/Ajax setup. If not the latter the first is useless.
If we want a DoF we could just give Matt Judge the title. Would it change things? Naw, probably not.

About Martin Edwards, you wrote 'IMO'. So it's YOUR opinion, not a state of fact. So really, you don't know what he really does.

When you say City are close, so why is City not like Ajax or Barcelona? What are they not doing that Ajax and Barca do to be under the umbrella of a DoF?

How is my idea of having a DoF naive? You just said yourself you would like a DoF! You are confusing me here, as I never mentioned time frames and who would be the DoF.


Like I said, when did I say Judge would be my idea of a DoF? Also, when did I say I just want a DoF for name sake?

 

[Johan07]

Forget the titles.

What I would say is we need a football man/ or football men in charge of football matters who should oversee football philosophy, hiring managers and recruiting players. In that you can have different people do different things but bottomline Woodward should not be in charge of these things.

He would still be though. I mean in general that is.
I dont buy the idea that appointing a DoF would remove power from Woodward. At all.
What a DoF-appointment would do is move power from the manager to the DoF which hopefully would result in more continuity for the club. Which is a good thing IMO.
It would do nothing about Woodwards role.

 

[The Irish Connection]

You see that is for me the problem in these conversations. The Glazers and Woodward are respectively the owners and the CEO, there isn't a scenario where these people whoever they are don't hold the reigns, whatever the structure within the club this will be true even if the Glazers and Woodward didn't exist.

Yes but there should be a scenario where the ceo sets a rough budget, say 100mil for a season, and then Paul Mitchell gets on with his scouting work and conversations with the coaches and uses the budget well and handles negotiations etc. So ultimately, if the manager doesn’t work out, we can move on, get in a compatible one without an upheaval.
I must watch that documentary about Dortmund, id say it’s impressive.