Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

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This club will continue to give me pain. We are so reactionary about everything.
 
Bestietom said:
Woodward said he is not in a hurry to appoint a DOF in the near future. He is happy the way things went this summer and will carry on next year the same way.
100 million to spend. We will be 5 years before we have a team to challenge again.
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Why 5 years? We're consistently regressing under him.
 
I have a suspicion that at the end of this season we may end up with Solsjkaer as DoF and Pochettino as manager, especially if we fail to get top 4.

Although I'm not advocating it, it could work quite well.
 
NWRed said:
I have a suspicion that at the end of this season we may end up with Solsjkaer as DoF and Pochettino as manager, especially if we fail to get top 4.

Although I'm not advocating it, it could work quite well.
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We should be going all out to go and get the guys who have done the jobs and been a success. City went out and got the guys from Barcelona. We should go and get the guys from the likes of Red Bull, Dortmund or Ajax.
 
red thru&thru said:
We should be going all out to go and get the guys who have done the jobs and been a success. City went out and got the guys from Barcelona. We should go and get the guys from the likes of Red Bull, Dortmund or Ajax.
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I don't think transplanting another clubs culture is what we need or should be trying to do. It has worked so far for City because they didn't have a culture or history to talk of and are trying to create one. Clubs like Ajax and Dortmund have been successful by getting people in who understand the club, its history and its culture. That's one of the reasons why, even though I want him to succeed as manager, I think Solsjkaer would do well as DoF.

I also really like Stuart Webber at Norwich, but there's no way Woodward would hire him.
 
NWRed said:
I don't think transplanting another clubs culture is what we need or should be trying to do. It has worked so far for City because they didn't have a culture or history to talk of and are trying to create one. Clubs like Ajax and Dortmund have been successful by getting people in who understand the club, its history and its culture. That's one of the reasons why, even though I want him to succeed as manager, I think Solsjkaer would do well as DoF.

I also really like Stuart Webber at Norwich, but there's no way Woodward would hire him.
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We also do not really have a culture apart from developing youth, playing attacking football and being successful which is also the same at Red Bull, Dortmund and Ajax

We don’t need people who “understand” the club. We need people who understand those values.
 
NWRed said:
I don't think transplanting another clubs culture is what we need or should be trying to do. It has worked so far for City because they didn't have a culture or history to talk of and are trying to create one. Clubs like Ajax and Dortmund have been successful by getting people in who understand the club, its history and its culture. That's one of the reasons why, even though I want him to succeed as manager, I think Solsjkaer would do well as DoF.

I also really like Stuart Webber at Norwich, but there's no way Woodward would hire him.
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Edwin understands our club. But our ethos isn't different to the ones I mentioned.
 
Cassidy said:
We also do not really have a culture apart from developing youth, playing attacking football and being successful which is also the same at Red Bull, Dortmund and Ajax

We don’t need people who “understand” the club. We need people who understand those values.
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red thru&thru said:
Edwin understands our club. But our ethos isn't different to the ones I mentioned.
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We aren't going to return to the top by copying and pasting another clubs structure, besides it's such a plastic thing to do.

The reason City did it is because they don't have a history or culture to return to or rebuild, they're a clean slate trying to build one, but when Guardiola leaves it'll fall apart within 5 years at best (probably immediately) and they'll then try to copy whoever else is successful at that time.

We're a completely different prospect, we need to rebuild our club not build one from scratch, we should do this in our own way not by trying to copy someone else's success. I seriously doubt just transplanting another clubs management structure would work for us anyway, we're simply too big a club to begin with.
 
NWRed said:
We aren't going to return to the top by copying and pasting another clubs structure, besides it's such a plastic thing to do.

The reason City did it is because they don't have a history or culture to return to or rebuild, they're a clean slate trying to build one, but when Guardiola leaves it'll fall apart within 5 years at best (probably immediately) and they'll then try to copy whoever else is successful at that time.

We're a completely different prospect, we need to rebuild our club not build one from scratch, we should do this in our own way not by trying to copy someone else's success. I seriously doubt just transplanting another clubs management structure would work for us anyway, we're simply too big a club to begin with.
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No one is saying copy someone else's success.

I am saying hire great people from those clubs who have been successful at the footballing side in the modern game

When we hired Fergie, we hired someone successful from another club.

We have to hire people who know what they are doing on the footballing side.
 
NWRed said:
We aren't going to return to the top by copying and pasting another clubs structure, besides it's such a plastic thing to do.

The reason City did it is because they don't have a history or culture to return to or rebuild, they're a clean slate trying to build one, but when Guardiola leaves it'll fall apart within 5 years at best (probably immediately) and they'll then try to copy whoever else is successful at that time.

We're a completely different prospect, we need to rebuild our club not build one from scratch, we should do this in our own way not by trying to copy someone else's success. I seriously doubt just transplanting another clubs management structure would work for us anyway, we're simply too big a club to begin with.
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Like @Cassidy said, we are about developing youth, playing them in a team with attacking and exciting football. That's what we were under Busby and Fergie.

So out of curiosity, do you not believe that is our philosophy? If not, what is it?
 
red thru&thru said:
Like @Cassidy said, we are about developing youth, playing them in a team with attacking and exciting football. That's what we were under Busby and Fergie.

So out of curiosity, do you not believe that is our philosophy? If not, what is it?
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Cassidy said we don't really have a culture, then listed the key characteristics of our clubs culture established after the war by Busby then reestablished by SAF. They're the things that we need to get back to but the way to do that isn't to try to copy another club, it's to create our own unique structure that has people in place who understand the club and the importance of it's unique history. Although ex players aren't the only way to do that it is a way that should work, plus those players are likely to be loyal to the club and not feck off elsewhere.
 
NWRed said:
Cassidy said we don't really have a culture, then listed the key characteristics of our clubs culture established after the war by Busby then reestablished by SAF. They're the things that we need to get back to but the way to do that isn't to try to copy another club, it's to create our own unique structure that has people in place who understand the club and the importance of it's unique history. Although ex players aren't the only way to do that it is a way that should work, plus those players are likely to be loyal to the club and not feck off elsewhere.
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So what's our unique culture?
 
SirAF said:
There isn't one, that's the issue.
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At the moment, exactly what I'm saying. Our 2 most successful periods as a club consisted of developing our youth, playing them intertwined with some of the best young talent around, playing attacking football. Some of the best clubs following that same ethos and doing well at it, are RB, Dortmund and Ajax.

The guys responsible for it at these clubs, have proven themselves and we should do what we can to go get them and do an even better job for u . To go out and win European cups etc
 
red thru&thru said:
So what's our unique culture?
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Developing our own young players mixed with star quality (both homegrown and bought in), and attacking, exciting, entertaining football. We've gotten away from these core values since SAF retired but we need to get back to them to be successful.
 
NWRed said:
Developing our own young players mixed with star quality (both homegrown and bought in), and attacking, exciting, entertaining football. We've gotten away from these core values since SAF retired but we need to get back to them to be successful.
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Yep agreed, see my post above.
 
red thru&thru said:
Yep agreed, see my post above.
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I would have thought every United fan who remembers SAF would agree with the values our club should have, the discussion was over how best to restore them. I think copying another club like City are trying to do is not only beneath us, it just wouldn't work.
 
NWRed said:
I would have thought every United fan who remembers SAF would agree with the values our club should have, the discussion was over how best to restore them. I think copying another club like City are trying to do is not only beneath us, it just wouldn't work.
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I just don't get the copying part? How is it copying to go out and getting the best people, in their positions, that we need? Which part is it copying?????
 
red thru&thru said:
I just don't get the copying part? How is it copying to go out and getting the best people, in their positions, that we need? Which part is it copying?????
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You said we should go out and get the guys from the likes of Red Bull, Dortmund or Ajax. As with players I don't think the answer is necessarily to go and get the latest shiny thing, and certainly not to try and sign the whole backroom footballing staff of another club.

Ajax have had success by sticking to what they've always been good at and getting in people who know and love the club (VDS who you mentioned actually runs the financial side, Overmars is DoF and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't come as he has turned Arsenal down in the past), Red Bull and Dortmund have been successful by getting in intelligent people who know how to put a structure in place that works for much smaller clubs in very different footballing cultures.

What we need is an intelligent DoF who understands the history and culture of our club and has a clear idea of what needs to be done to get back to it. In other threads I've been arguing for why Ole needs a lot more time and the main reason for that is he understands all those things and has a clear idea of what needs to be done, and how long it's going to take. That's also why I think it's possible he may end up as DoF here with someone else as head coach. He could see it as the perfect opportunity to be given the time to rebuild the club from the ground up.
 
NWRed said:
You said we should go out and get the guys from the likes of Red Bull, Dortmund or Ajax. As with players I don't think the answer is necessarily to go and get the latest shiny thing, and certainly not to try and sign the whole backroom footballing staff of another club.

Ajax have had success by sticking to what they've always been good at and getting in people who know and love the club (VDS who you mentioned actually runs the financial side, Overmars is DoF and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't come as he has turned Arsenal down in the past), Red Bull and Dortmund have been successful by getting in intelligent people who know how to put a structure in place that works for much smaller clubs in very different footballing cultures.

What we need is an intelligent DoF who understands the history and culture of our club and has a clear idea of what needs to be done to get back to it. In other threads I've been arguing for why Ole needs a lot more time and the main reason for that is he understands all those things and has a clear idea of what needs to be done, and how long it's going to take. That's also why I think it's possible he may end up as DoF here with someone else as head coach. He could see it as the perfect opportunity to be given the time to rebuild the club from the ground up.
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The prob3at Manchester United is, we are much bigger than than the aforementioned clubs, we don't get time to trial things. We need to go and get the guys who are already successful in their jobs at big clubs.

Edwin would be the man for me to replace Ed. Already a club legend, so ticks off that box you're talking about. Someone like Zorc or Rangnick as DoF, they already doing the tings our club stands for. Also Paul Mitchell, understands the British and European market.
 
red thru&thru said:
The prob3at Manchester United is, we are much bigger than than the aforementioned clubs, we don't get time to trial things. We need to go and get the guys who are already successful in their jobs at big clubs.

Edwin would be the man for me to replace Ed. Already a club legend, so ticks off that box you're talking about. Someone like Zorc or Rangnick as DoF, they already doing the tings our club stands for. Also Paul Mitchell, understands the British and European market.
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We aren't getting rid of Woodward, it's just not going to happen and frankly if his role was limited only to the financial side of the business there would be no need to consider it.

Zorc spent his entire career at Dortmund before becoming DoF, he knows the club inside out, how is he supposed to replicate that here? The equivalent for us would be to appoint an intelligent ex player as DoF and give then the authority and time to rebuild the footballing side from top to bottom. This is what Ole is currently trying to do whilst also managing the team.

Rangnick has done well at Reb Bull Leipzig and I wouldn't be against his appointment but he's 61 now and I doubt he has the time left or drive needed to rebuild a club of our size.
 
NWRed said:
We aren't getting rid of Woodward, it's just not going to happen and frankly if his role was limited only to the financial side of the business there would be no need to consider it.

Zorc spent his entire career at Dortmund before becoming DoF, he knows the club inside out, how is he supposed to replicate that here? The equivalent for us would be to appoint an intelligent ex player as DoF and give then the authority and time to rebuild the footballing side from top to bottom. This is what Ole is currently trying to do whilst also managing the team.

Rangnick has done well at Reb Bull Leipzig and I wouldn't be against his appointment but he's 61 now and I doubt he has the time left or drive needed to rebuild a club of our size.
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So who would be your choice of people to do these jobs?
 
red thru&thru said:
So who would be your choice of people to do these jobs?
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On the financial side Woodward has shown himself to be able so I would see no reason to replace him.

If we were to go for a straight forward DoF I would get Stuart Webber from Norwich. Very talented, done the business at both Huddersfield and now Norwich, has the right philosophy on youth development and if you've seen that 90 minute interview with him I think you'd agree he's ready for the step up to big club and I think he would be a big success here.

As I seriously doubt Woodward would give that amount of control to one man other than himself I'm hoping for an intelligent ex player who know and values the clubs history, someone like Fletcher or like I've suggested might happen Ole changing role at the end of the season.
 
NWRed said:
On the financial side Woodward has shown himself to be able so I would see no reason to replace him.

If we were to go for a straight forward DoF I would get Stuart Webber from Norwich. Very talented, done the business at both Huddersfield and now Norwich, has the right philosophy on youth development and if you've seen that 90 minute interview with him I think you'd agree he's ready for the step up to big club and I think he would be a big success here.

As I seriously doubt Woodward would give that amount of control to one man other than himself I'm hoping for an intelligent ex player who know and values the clubs history, someone like Fletcher or like I've suggested might happen Ole changing role at the end of the season.
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It's the Ed bit that concerns me, not giving power. So whilst he's there, I don't see us being successful. He has proven himself time and time again, to change his footballing decisions.

I haven't seen that interview, would be good if you could share it? Cheers.
 
red thru&thru said:
It's the Ed bit that concerns me, not giving power. So whilst he's there, I don't see us being successful. He has proven himself time and time again, to change his footballing decisions.

I haven't seen that interview, would be good if you could share it? Cheers.
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I completely understand and agree with what you're saying about Woodward, his ego is the problem. The Glazers will never get rid of him though so I see the only hope is that as much of the responsibility for the football side as is possible is removed from his direct control. If that means a watered dow DoF then it's better than nothing.

Here's that interview with Stuart Webber:

 
NWRed said:
I completely understand and agree with what you're saying about Woodward, his ego is the problem. The Glazers will never get rid of him though so I see the only hope is that as much of the responsibility for the football side as is possible is removed from his direct control. If that means a watered dow DoF then it's better than nothing.

Here's that interview with Stuart Webber:

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I got to read the Training Ground Guru article of this video and I must say, he's very impressive. Again, I just worry about Ed.

Stuart makes it very clear how he has worked with great owners who don't meddle, Ed would meddle!
 
red thru&thru said:
I got to read the Training Ground Guru article of this video and I must say, he's very impressive. Again, I just worry about Ed.

Stuart makes it very clear how he has worked with great owners who don't meddle, Ed would meddle!
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I did say that I don't think Woodward would give someone like him the control he would need to do the job, which is why why I don't think we'll go for him (well not until he's been a big success at another big club, then we'll go for him and he'll turn us down).
 
NWRed said:
I did say that I don't think Woodward would give someone like him the control he would need to do the job, which is why why I don't think we'll go for him (well not until he's been a big success at another big club, then we'll go for him and he'll turn us down).
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And this is why I insist that Ed should go and if the owners don't want him to go, we need to get the owners to go too. I've heard arguments that Ed is great at the commercial stuff and how he needs to protect the investors money etc etc, but what people fail to see is that, we have rapidly been caught up commercially by other clubs and he's not doing as well as we should be.

In terms of protecting the investors, let's use Stuart Webber as an example, he is all about using young talent with a blend of experience on a tight budget. We can be successful using this model, and then Ed's commercial side could start performing at its true potential.
 
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