Your point is immediately negated by the fact that both Zorc or Monchi were both internal appointments at their time(let alone the fact that Monchi has miserably failed at Roma and the Roma fans hate him). Liverpool's recruitment suddenly looked excellent when Edwards was promoted.
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
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Your point is immediately negated by the fact that both Zorc or Monchi were both internal appointments at their time(let alone the fact that Monchi has miserably failed at Roma and the Roma fans hate him). Liverpool's recruitment suddenly looked excellent when Edwards was promoted.
My point is more of a cultural thing rather than being internal or snapped up from other club. I don't have problem with hiring an internal man, however the issue with DoF is dividing the control and power Woodward would have over transfers. Promoting an employee doesn't really fill me with confidence there.
Even if we appoint external DoF, he will play by the rules set by Woodward. There won't be any change in the role.
Yeah this idea that an external DOF would suddenly be all powerful is actually hilarious. Woodward practically runs the club right now. Woodward undoubtedly will still have the final say.
Maybe not, but would be a less yes man to me if you are investing into someone who is likely to have different approach to yours. Or at least challenge you on some of the important matters, not only merely player recruits.
That goes without saying. The DoF won't have the final say of course, but is more likely to change our transfer policy, even little, compared to internal from Woodward reign..
This is what I don't get, any appointment will be made by Woodward, so any appointment will report to him. He is the CEO of the club, which means he runs the club, somehow people think some smaller role like DoF will be all powerful. If it was SAF then yeah, he was Mr.ManUtd but not some new guy who is not even sure whether he will last a season.
Ultimately everyone is a yes man to CEO and owners. IF they are not then there will be friction and the other guy loses his job. We don't need a rebel, we need a person who will help the club working with Woodward, Ole and other staff.
Ultimately, yes. Not saying we need someone that will question the status quo, but rather a man with good CV, who also has good record with transfers, more continental ideas and likely to bring in fresher approach. In the last years since Fergie left we are stalling and falling behind on the footballing side and feel our approach has always been outdated. This is why I'd like to see a new face who also has good credentials next to him. Not someone who will run the club..
One is a generational talent, the other is a braindead English athlete.
Agree with the thrust of @Enigma_87's posts. Of course, we can't divine the future (I've personally been proven wrong on innumerable occasions: from Morata's suitability to the Premier League to arguing very strongly in favor of Mourinho, and won't pretend to know anything about the organisational minutiae), and someone like Murtough could be the next Fabio Paratici, but there's reason to be somewhat apprehensive because our administrative/operational team hasn't exactly covered itself in glory in recent years — and the elevation of someone who is already at the club could lead to further entrenchment of the established order under Woodward's thumb.
Dunno if we should attach any credence to ex-employees like Derek Langley because some can be very vindictive when they're cutting ties, so take his musing with a grain of salt, but his view wrt. not seeing eye to eye with Murtough and Alexander in terms of youth recruitment principles didn't paint the most flattering behind-the-scenes picture. On a conceptual level, I think an external appointment followed by an atomization of responsibilities, be it from the continent where the DoF model has been mainstream for 20+ years or intra-league, will provide a bigger shock to a system that was fairly archaic in the not too distant past and probably needs a bit of an overhaul (or maybe even a radical approach to rethink the entire structure — a bit like Zizek argued here to cite a political theory).
Though I would submit that external appointments can often go terribly wrong because of a myriad circumstantial/cultural/personal/ideological reasons — and any such appointment would by no means be a fool-proof panacea because he will still operate within the boundaries outlined by the owners and Woodward (which could lead to a diluted evolution than a revolution), and work alongside people he might not necessarily agree with — which could lead to a lot of friction, whereas someone who is already in the mix presumably has a decent working relationship with the owners and staff.
Dunno if we should attach any credence to ex-employees like Derek Langley because some can be very vindictive when they're cutting ties, so take his musing with a grain of salt, but his view wrt. not seeing eye to eye with Murtough and Alexander in terms of youth recruitment principles didn't paint the most flattering behind-the-scenes picture. On a conceptual level, I think an external appointment followed by an atomization of responsibilities, be it from the continent where the DoF model has been mainstream for 20+ years or intra-league, will provide a bigger shock to a system that was fairly archaic in the not too distant past and probably needs a bit of an overhaul (or maybe even a radical approach to rethink the entire structure — a bit like Zizek argued here to cite a political theory).
Though I would submit that external appointments can often go terribly wrong because of a myriad circumstantial/cultural/personal/ideological reasons — and any such appointment would by no means be a fool-proof panacea because he will still operate within the boundaries outlined by the owners and Woodward (which could lead to a diluted evolution than a revolution), and work alongside people he might not necessarily agree with — which could lead to a lot of friction, whereas someone who is already in the mix presumably has a decent working relationship with the owners and staff.
Cantona or Evra please!
This thread is now a year old. Are we really any closer to appointing anyone, or is it all more club BS?
Seems like things haven't really changed since then. Not that it means much because the press usually don't know anything about what's going on in the club unless Woody does one of his infamous "briefings".
I think it will happen.
Ole finished this line with saying that "I think the demands of football means that you've got to split up responsibility definitely".
Very clear indication that a DOF will be indeed be appointed.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Phelan was in the running for it.
Surely that's not going to be the case. He seems better more hands on with the squad in training and match day. We see him on the touchline more often than the boss (Fergie and OGS).
Surely that's not going to be the case. He seems better more hands on with the squad in training and match day. We see him on the touchline more often than the boss (Fergie and OGS).
you're such a top red.
No really, I am jealous of you. I guess if they take a cow's dump and they put in a United shirt then you'll still hug it.
Perhaps it's Woodward's unwillingness to delegate responsibilities that has put potential DoF candidates off. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes, but it seems unlikely we wouldn't have contacted a few people over the role by now. Maybe none of them want it because they aren't being offered the freedom a DoF would usually get?
Just a thought, I guess we don't really know what happens behind closed doors.
Just a thought, I guess we don't really know what happens behind closed doors.
Or you would have moaned about class of 92 as penny pinching if they were promoted with these owners.
Second highest spent in last 5-6 years, second or third highest wage bill but they are doing internal appointments to save wages who will earn so much that its negligible. But who cares about logic.
Spend big- moan about spending and citing beloved match fixers as example for how to operate.
Promote internally - moan about penny pinching.
Adds nothing to the discussion
I had a daughter recently. She's my world. I have every thing covered for her. I set enough money for her private education. I bought her a house and I even invested in a grave so she and her future children can get buried in peace. However i wonder if I love her as u do with united. I mean I still squirm when I have to change nappies. You take that crap with a smile on your face
Ps if the club is on sale then it's not necessarily a bad thing either. Just saying
What? As usual more nonsense.
Nothing on how we are penny pinching. DoF or whoever won't cost much, they won't even earn half of what Jones, Rojo earn.
Good day.
Try arguing over the topic rather than making such nonsense posts.
feck are you on about
Too early in the day to be drinking.
I agree with what you say, but the term company man I don't think is appropriate. If he had the choice between the Glazers and owners who hadn't leeched off the club and were passionate about United winning trophies, he would bite your hand off.
I'm optimistic that when he's been here as permanent manager for a while, he will feel secure enough to challenge them. It's impossible to do that as interim manager. Plus the other option, Poch, has failed totally to get funds from Levy, so not sure if he can do differently. Jose also tried the nuclear option of calling out the board and they were happy to sack him when results dropped.
Ole is treating Ed / The Glazers the same way he has treated the players so far. Hoping a different approach will yield different results.
If I actually respected you as a poster, I'd say that the class of 92 were phased in slowly. SAF made sure he had experienced top talent around them to tutor them ex Keane, Irwin, Schmeichel, Ince (in Giggs case) and Cantona, players who are 10 times better to what we've currently got btw. I would have also said that I don't know why you're so defensive simply because I said that the Glazers are either planning to sell or that they are tightening the belt as most owners do that at one point of their administration including our previous owners. Throughout my time United changed hands from Edwards, to a group of major shareholders right to the Glazers. If you pushed me in an interesting debate then I might even tell you that the issue isn't exactly how much money we're spending but more about how we're spending it. Which is why I am quite passionate in seeing us get a top DOF who'll make sure we don't go for the flashy toy currently available and doesn't get repeatedly taken to the cleaners as Woody does.
Unfortunately your initial post like most of your posts towards me are hostile and tbf of quite low quality. Which explains why I don't invest too much time in debating with you
Ole press conference: "Director of Football will be hired before the season is finished."
April Fools!
April Fools!
So you are complaining about Woodward being taken to cleaners and then complaining about we are penny pinching. 2 contradictory statements.
Oh you don't like me, what a shame. You talking about low quality posts is amazing though.
Not sure why you think I'm defensive just because I pointed out a hole in your logic, but yeah who cares.
After giving huge contracts to Jones, Shaw, Rojo I don't know how anyone can believe we are trying to keep wage bill as low as possible.
Seriously just re-read my post. What I said is that its out of Woodward's nature not to go for the shiniest toy in town. Afterwards I came out with a list of why, I think, such change of strategy might be happening which include that either they are tightening the belt or they are going to sell the club. The former is a natural thing at a club that is not run by petrodollars, the latter, well, I doubt there will be many shedding tears for the Glazers once they are gone.
PS giving huge contracts to Rojo, Jones and Shaw is one of the reasons why people like myself want a top DOF at the club. Some might even suggest that by doing so, they would avoid having to spend big in the summer as well.
I find @KM comment far more intelligent and intriguing then yours. Unfortunately it wasn't addressed to myself and instead I wasted time with yours.
I know this is between you and someone else, but
Surely it's not a far stretch to assume the "huge" contracts to Jones are cheaper and short duration to bringing in new centre backs all all together.
So the initial assumption is wrong and then you built your argument on that. Well done.
So is ManUtd penny pinching or not? You have agreed we gave huge contracts to Jones, Shaw, Rojo so that's why we need top DOF. On the other hand you are saying promoting internally because Glazers don't want to spend. So money is not the problem, how we are spending is.
Jones and Rojo barely plays, so there is no short term gain in signing them. It's just a financial mismanagement by the club, believing in the proven injury prone players.
Hope, its not too late so that he can have proper time and plans on the ground going into summer window.
I agree, but could it not likely be because the club simply don't want to buy a top class centre back if they can avoid it? There's literally no other reason to keep them. They're deadweight and just contribute to overall numbers for the odd game here or there (like vs Watford).
For some reason Jones is every manager's favorite, so can see why he was given extension (which I disagree with btw). Jones and Rojo earn huge wages, it makes much more sense to buy 1 CB who will earn lot less than combined wages of Jones and Rojo.
It's a big mess though, the squad numbers and quality.
Jeez that's why I find it hard to discuss with you
A- First of all giving long contracts to stars like Rojo and Jones doesn't mean anything apart from us being stupid. Some might even see that as a way to avoid us being forced to buy 1-2 top CBs
B- Clubs go in financial cycles. The same owners who allowed SAF to spend big in a bid to win the treble forced the same man to sell Stam off a few years down the line
C- If a club is on sale (any club not just Man United) then it tend to avoid hiring staff unless its strictly necessary. New owners might have their own vision of running things and wouldn't appreciate having to pay huge fees to get rid of staff they don't rate/don't want.
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