Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

[Enigma_87]

Ahh right, no im on about Lindelof mainly, Jose doesn't trust him either. But he should've also identified that Smalling etc are not defensive leaders from when we appointed him, it's bad that that's took him 2 seasons.

Can understand him to be honest. He said it in the middle of the season I reckon that he's feeling a bit unease watching us in defence and he surely had that in mind as soon as he took over, but couldn't really revamp the whole team. A top CF was a must more so than a defensive leader hence we got Lukaku, Pogba also was a must as we needed quality in the middle of the park.

Think he has done well to address the weaknesses on the pitch before this transfer window.

Lindelof was one for the future and I actually think he might prove to be very good squad player or even better if he gains experience, has patience and learns off someone like Toby for example.

The biggest issue I have with either Jose or Woodward(not sure who holds the blame) is why aren't we addressing the LB, RB and RW positions on the market. Have no idea which 5 players has Jose sent, but the LB position, along with the RB position is the poorest on the pitch and we aren't doing much to address it. We bought Dalot but he's also a youngster who would be a stretch to hold him responsible in his first season for our wing play, which to be fair sucks.

 

[flappyjay]

Mourinho's signings are by far the strongest part of our team. Bailly/Pogba/Matic/Sanchez/Lukaku are all quality. His only debatable signing so far is Lindelof.

But how many of them would you say have played better than before coming to us this far?

 

[Bastian]

What if Jose is being insistent on paying over £100 million for two 29 year olds, Alderweireld and Willian, and Woodward doesn't think it's a sustainable move for the club? I side with Woodward. The age thing has become a bit of a meme topic on this forum but it's still a very relevant factor in terms of value, and going off the price tags of these two players the age hasn't been factored into the price at all. Jose has spent an unbelievable amount of money at this club, Woodward has the right to buckle it down a notch when he sees fit.

If that would be true then the club could appoint a DoF and buy say de Ligt and Bailey for instance. Lay down the law. But as it is, seems we are not addressing the flaws and hoping somehow for things not to turn shite, which is quite illogical.

 

[Offside]

Mourinho's signings are by far the strongest part of our team. Bailly/Pogba/Matic/Sanchez/Lukaku are all quality. His only debatable signing so far is Lindelof.

Every single one has played better for either their previous club, their national team or both. You're right that he is getting some talent in rather than complete dogshit like LVG, but he still isn't using them to the best effect.

 

[flappyjay]

Should have signed Malcolm at the start of the summer he was available for peanuts in today’s market and just paid up the cash for Alderweireld, it would cost £100m combined but filled 2 spots our squad desperately needs.

Big week this it could shape the whole season.

Ed signs players who are in Jose's list.

 

[reddaz71]

No other top club would want Woodward as their go to man for transfers,2013 was shambolic but this window has shown that he and the owners are absolutely not football people but businessman first and foremost,thats our dilemma,we are now a club which is a business first and a football club second!

You can be assured the Glazers wont be losing any sleep over the fact we have not won the league for 5 years as long as the ££££ is still rolling in!

 

[luke511]

If that would be true then the club could appoint a DoF and buy say de Ligt and Bailey for instance. Lay down the law. But as it is, seems we are not addressing the flaws and hoping somehow for things not to turn shite, which is quite illogical.

Maybe Jose and Woodward still want full control over the transfers, and Mourinho doesn't want these targets and is deciding to be very stubborn on his first choices. Signing De Ligt and Bailey would be incredible though, warrants the £100 million spend more for sure.

 

[the chameleon]

Can understand him to be honest. He said it in the middle of the season I reckon that he's feeling a bit unease watching us in defence and he surely had that in mind as soon as he took over, but couldn't really revamp the whole team. A top CF was a must more so than a defensive leader hence we got Lukaku, Pogba also was a must as we needed quality in the middle of the park.

Think he has done well to address the weaknesses on the pitch before this transfer window.

Lindelof was one for the future and I actually think he might prove to be very good squad player or even better if he gains experience, has patience and learns off someone like Toby for example.

The biggest issue I have with either Jose or Woodward(not sure who holds the blame) is why aren't we addressing the LB, RB and RW positions on the market. Have no idea which 5 players has Jose sent, but the LB position, along with the RB position is the poorest on the pitch and we aren't doing much to address it. We bought Dalot but he's also a youngster who would be a stretch to hold him responsible in his first season for our wing play, which to be fair sucks.

I agree with all your points. We need to address these issues. But signings alone are just plastering over the cracks but not addressing the core issue which is to fix the foundation. We signed Pogba in 2016, everyone was proclaiming Woodward as some sort of Messiah. When we had that summer with Di Maria and co-signing it was the same.

But then he's hiring managers who can't get the best out these new signings and managers who demoralise talented young players.

DoF would go long, long way towards addressing the foundations.

 

[Denis' cuff]

No other top club would want Woodward as their go to man for transfers,2013 was shambolic but this window has shown that he and the owners are absolutely not football people but businessman first and foremost,thats our dilemma,we are now a club which is a business first and a football club second!

You can be assured the Glazers wont be losing any sleep over the fact we have not won the league for 5 years as long as the ££££ is still rolling in!

Exactly this.

Why on earth do people think the Glazer bought the club? Hello = cash cow. They know or nothing and care even less about the football side of the club.

The manager gave a list of players he wanted. Is it too much for the wealthiest club on the planet to purchase those players? Perisic was 5m too expensive last season, ffs. Now, Woody is procrastinating, no doubt with full approval of the owners. If you don’t back the manager, just sack him now and then repeat, next time and the time after whilst the money keeps rolling in. Works for Arsenal.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Exactly this.

Why on earth do people think the Glazer bought the club? Hello = cash cow. They know or nothing and care even less about the football side of the club.

The manager gave a list of players he wanted. Is it too much for the wealthiest club on the planet to purchase those players? Perisic was 5m too expensive last season, ffs. Now, Woody is procrastinating, in between working on new sponsors, no doubt with full approval of the owners. If you don’t back the manager, just sack him now and then repeat, next time and the time after whilst the money keeps rolling in. Works for Arsenal.

 

[Bestietom]

Mourinho said he gave a list of players to Woodward 4 months ago, so the problem lies with him.

 

[flappyjay]

This summer Jose reminds me of the Moyes summer. We have let players that would have been realistic targets sign for other teams. Instead we are after players whose teams are asking for crazy money. We let City sign one of the best right wingers in the league unopposed. Whilst spending the summer trying to sign someone Barcelona who aren't afraid to spend ended up backing away from. They then quickly closed the Malcom deal, yet another right winger gone. Jose should have known that he would not be allowed to buy a 30 year old winger for 50m+ who would also want a salary of around 200k or more. The board learned from Rooney and Schweinteiger. Imagine trying to get Sanchez and Willian of the books in 3 years time if the deals don't work out, it would be a nightmare situation. Having one player approaching 30 on big wages is acceptable , 2 or more is just asking for trouble.

The Alderweireld deal we can't blame Woody for it yet. Looks like he is playing the waiting game with Levy. Lets see if levy will risk selling Alderweireld for 25m next year.

 

[POF]

The club desperately needs a structure where they can source and sign lesser known talent. Every single player they are linked with is either a high profile player or has some link with Jose. It's embarrassing for a club like United to be so naive.

If they wanted Harry Maguire or Yerry Mina they should have got them last summer for 25% of what they will cost now. They need someone (probably a Director of Football) to source talent and, in conjunction with the manager, sign players to ensure a balanced sustainable squad.

LVG spent 2 years rebuilding the squad. Jose spent 2 years undoing everything LVG put in place. What an absolute waste of time and money. Allowing the managers to dictate every signing is just not a sustainable model going forward (unless that manager is Fergie).

I don't blame Woodward much for the issues this summer. I don't know why the club is chasing another centre back when left back and some attacking flair are of far greater need. The one thing Woodward has to accept blame for is the current structure. It is not working and needs to change.

 

[Revan]

Mourinho said he gave a list of players to Woodward 4 months ago, so the problem lies with him.

If that list had players which are not suitable for the club, or that the selling clubs either don't want to sell them or put an expensive price tag on them, then the problem lies with Mourinho for not being flexible enough.

 

[Vanya]

Both Woodward and Mourinho are doing a sub standard job at the club.

Woodward should have brought in a CB, LB and RW by now. Alderwiereld is available and so is Alex Sandro. The RW position is harder to fill but at least the aforementioned players should have been signed by now.

While City continue to add depth and talent to their squad despite having world class players we are just standing by and trying to get a good deal. Darmian, Fosu Mensah, Tuanzebe even Shaw all should have been gone by now. Woodward is doing a very mediocre job this season tbh.

Jose on the other hand is busy either picking fights with his most talented players or failing as an attacking coach and making even good attacking players seem average at best.

Both need to be pulled up for not doing enough

 

[AR87]

If that list had players which are not suitable for the club, or that the selling clubs either don't want to sell them or put an expensive price tag on them, then the problem lies with Mourinho for not being flexible enough.

He should then be made aware of that and be asked to submit alternate targets or Woodward should be able to provide targets the club feel are more realistic/ideal. We don't know whether Mourinho isn't flexible because there's no suggestions Woodward told him that landing his targets was something the club wasnt prepared to do.

 

[Kapardin]

Mourinho said he gave a list of players to Woodward 4 months ago, so the problem lies with him.

Look at it from Woodward's perspective. Toby for 65 million and Willian for 70 million. Both on wages likely >120K a week. Is that ~140 million with no chance of recouping it going to make us title contenders?

The board rejected all of Jose's RW targets in all probability. With Toby, we are haggling to drive down the price.

Jose's list should have been better. Conversely, Ed let his manager down by merely rejecting and not proposing alternatives apart from a minor chase for Bale which ended nowhere as usual. And that is because Ed is not keyed up on gettable alternative targets as only a DoF can do that job.

 

[Adisa]

If we even sacked Jose how many of you would trust Woodward to make the correct appointment?

No. The only reason I don't want him gone until a DoF arrives.

 

[sal klita]

Mourinho said he gave a list of players to Woodward 4 months ago, so the problem lies with him.

And what if it's list of aged and very expensive players? What we gonna do with them in 2 years?

Someone in position of Woody should know how to build team alongside with manager. Not just fulfill requirements of outdated manager.

 

[Revan]

If we invest more this season without selling, we will limit the amount we can spend next season and so on. From another tread:


My guess is that the board/Woody is either content with the squad and feels that Mourinho should secure a top 4 spot with the current players, and/or waiting for the next manager and give him funds to spend on players.

Based on @ravelston post you quoted, the best guess is that there just isn't too much money to spend. Of course we can overspend now if the right player(s) are available and then underspend on the next summer(s). But that is a very bad business decision if we aren't sure that the manager will be here next summer (imagine appointing a new manager but not having money to give to him cause we spent on Willian and Perisic) and if those players don't have long term potential.

The club is being cautious cause it needs to be. 4 years on a row on being bad on transfer market has seen to that.

If people are blaming Glazers/Ed they should do it not because they aren't spending enough but because they have hired 3 wrong managers in a row (in Mourinho'case the jury it still out but it looks an increasingly wrong appointment with each moment passing) and not having a long term strategy / giving too much power to the manager.

If I was Ed, I would put all signings on hold and make a long term plan which includes the manager, potential DoF/board for football related decisions and long term signings. Anything else is just treating the syndromes and it won't end well.

 

[breakout67]

Woodward gets 5 players for each position from the manager and he keeps on going down the list because they are asking for too much money. Are we turning into penny pinchers now?

 

[Revan]

No. The only reason I don't want him gone until a DoF arrives.

The manager is too big a decision to be made from DoF alone. DoF or no DoF, it will still be CEO's decision.

The more footballing people near the CEO, the better though, and they can advise to have a more creative hiring. Someone like Jardim for example.

 

[Adisa]

The manager is too big a decision to be made from DoF alone. DoF or no DoF, it will still be CEO's decision.

The more footballing people near the CEO, the better though, and they can advise to have a more creative hiring. Someone like Jardim for example.

This club has no identity in what it believes a manager should be. We have no profile. That's why we can go from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho. There's almost nothing common among the three. From playing style to personality.
Until we have a clear identity of the footballing ideals we want to expose as a club, we will keep making mistakes.
Let me rephrase my previous post. Until, Ed and the board sort out the above, I'd keep Mourinho as long as we don't tank.

 

[Josep Dowling]

The club desperately needs a structure where they can source and sign lesser known talent. Every single player they are linked with is either a high profile player or has some link with Jose. It's embarrassing for a club like United to be so naive.

If they wanted Harry Maguire or Yerry Mina they should have got them last summer for 25% of what they will cost now. They need someone (probably a Director of Football) to source talent and, in conjunction with the manager, sign players to ensure a balanced sustainable squad.

LVG spent 2 years rebuilding the squad. Jose spent 2 years undoing everything LVG put in place. What an absolute waste of time and money. Allowing the managers to dictate every signing is just not a sustainable model going forward (unless that manager is Fergie).

I don't blame Woodward much for the issues this summer. I don't know why the club is chasing another centre back when left back and some attacking flair are of far greater need. The one thing Woodward has to accept blame for is the current structure. It is not working and needs to change.

This is exactly it. We keep trying to sign players once their value has risen off the scale. As you said if we really liked the look of Maguire why didn't we sign him from Hull.

Mina I can half understand as no doubt there would have been work permit issues if he signed from Palmeiras. Plus he isn't good enough anyway.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Posted this in the Mourinho thread, but I guess it's maybe more applicable here...

It's funny that pretty much everyone is talking about how it's either Mourinho or Woodward that isn't good enough...

My opinion - it's both.

Neither are good enough to challenge at the highest level, and I would suggest that both need replacing.

Hopefully as Mourinho pulls his usual leaving drama (which is exactly what he's doing now, make no mistake), he takes Woodward down with him - which I think he may well do.

 

[Revan]

This club has no identity in what it believes a manager should be. We have no profile. That's why we can go from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho. There's almost nothing common among the three. From playing style to personality.
Until we have a clear identity of the footballing ideals we want to expose as a club, we will keep making mistakes.
Let me rephrase my previous post. Until, Ed and the board sort out the above, I'd keep Mourinho as long as we don't tank.

I agree fully with you. Moyes was let's just listen to SAF which was an idiotic way of handling things for such a big decision. Then the next two decisions were just hire the manager with the highest reputation without much thought on identity, way of play, continuity from one to other, etc. Mourinho will self-implode during this season in all likelihood, and I hope that we will we prepared for a better hiring next time around.

 

[Revan]

Posted this in the Mourinho thread, but I guess it's maybe more applicable here...

It's funny that pretty much everyone is talking about how it's either Mourinho or Woodward that isn't good enough...

My opinion - it's both.

Neither are good enough to challenge at the highest level, and I would suggest that both need replacing.

Hopefully as Mourinho pulls his usual leaving drama (which is exactly what he's doing now, make no mistake), he takes Woodward down with him - which I think he may well do.

CEO's main job is to protect the interests of the shareholders, and he has been doing it. Unless the board thinks that in long term United will start losing value (which can happen, cause no trophies and shit football means less fans, less sponsors, less revenue which in turn means that the club's value gets reduced), Ed is safe while United's revenue and value increases.

 

[Kidders]

Do we know where Ed is today ?

 

[AR87]

he takes Woodward down with him - which I think he may well do.

No chance. The Glazers love Woodward.

 

[willhse456]

What is he meant to do?! Is he meant to just splurge 70-80 million on Maguire and Alderweireld? He's clearly trying to negotiate better fees, but that's a mark against him? He's delivered on a lot of players in the past and is clearly financially responsible.

No doubt in my mind that he's the right guy for the job, he's made us the most valuable club in the world, and has us generating more revenue/profit than anyone else. He knows what he's doing.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Based on @ravelston post you quoted, the best guess is that there just isn't too much money to spend. Of course we can overspend now if the right player(s) are available and then underspend on the next summer(s). But that is a very bad business decision if we aren't sure that the manager will be here next summer (imagine appointing a new manager but not having money to give to him cause we spent on Willian and Perisic) and if those players don't have long term potential.

The club is being cautious cause it needs to be. 4 years on a row on being bad on transfer market has seen to that.

If people are blaming Glazers/Ed they should do it not because they aren't spending enough but because they have hired 3 wrong managers in a row (in Mourinho'case the jury it still out but it looks an increasingly wrong appointment with each moment passing) and not having a long term strategy / giving too much power to the manager.

If I was Ed, I would put all signings on hold and make a long term plan which includes the manager, potential DoF/board for football related decisions and long term signings. Anything else is just treating the syndromes and it won't end well.

Yes. But reckon we will sign Alderweireld in the coming days, and hopefully get decent money for some of our lesser players.

 

[Devil may care]

We have seen that if the players are young and marketable with a percieved substantial upside the club will spend big, examples Martial, Pogba, Shaw and Lukaku. I think the big sticking point this summer has been the profile of player Mourinho wants, had he wanted Mahrez, Pulisic, Bailey or Malcom instead of Willian or Perisic, I think we'd have gotten our Right Winger, and it seems with the CB situation we have stalled all window due to the age of our main target, as soon as Maguire came up I think we were ready to do business but Leicester aren't.

 

[King Kana]

But how many of them would you say have played better than before coming to us this far?

That is not the argument is it? Either you or, someone else above, was claiming “most Jose’s signings have been bad” hence Woodward and co’s hesitation at further investment - which is laughable.

Jose has improved the squad by far, compared to what it was. Wether u want him here or not.

 

[King Kana]

Can understand him to be honest. He said it in the middle of the season I reckon that he's feeling a bit unease watching us in defence and he surely had that in mind as soon as he took over, but couldn't really revamp the whole team. A top CF was a must more so than a defensive leader hence we got Lukaku, Pogba also was a must as we needed quality in the middle of the park.

Think he has done well to address the weaknesses on the pitch before this transfer window.

Lindelof was one for the future and I actually think he might prove to be very good squad player or even better if he gains experience, has patience and learns off someone like Toby for example.

The biggest issue I have with either Jose or Woodward(not sure who holds the blame) is why aren't we addressing the LB, RB and RW positions on the market. Have no idea which 5 players has Jose sent, but the LB position, along with the RB position is the poorest on the pitch and we aren't doing much to address it. We bought Dalot but he's also a youngster who would be a stretch to hold him responsible in his first season for our wing play, which to be fair sucks.

Should be emphasized more as some on here are really too thick or blinkered to realize this basic fact that is so obvious.

 

[Revan]

Yes. But reckon we will sign Alderweireld in the coming days, and hopefully get decent money for some of our lesser players.

I guess that we'll get him and hopefully sell Rojo which will balance the books and it means that we have spent as much as we could have spent.

Obviously if a Mbappe or Bale was available we would have tried to sign him knowing that the next summer we won't have money to spend, but you don't do that for Willian or Perisic (who in my opinion aren't even as good as what we have).

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I guess that we'll get him and hopefully sell Rojo which will balance the books and it means that we have spent as much as we could have spent.

Obviously if a Mbappe or Bale was available we would have tried to sign him knowing that the next summer we won't have money to spend, but you don't do that for Willian or Perisic (who in my opinion aren't even as good as what we have).

True. And JM has stated many times during the last 6 months that he is satisfied with the attacking options. And cannot understand why not Sanchez, Martial or Rashford would not to a decent job at RW. They can cross, good 1v1, relatively fast. Basically what you need.
So we will sign a CB and/or a LB if we sign anyone.

 

[manutddjw]

I keep seeing the call for a DoF, a DoF would never work under Mourinho and would have disaster written all over it which we’re kind of seeing now with Mourinho’s passive aggressive jabs at Woodward and the squad.

A DoF is responsible for not just 10 months but 10 years. Like Woodward a DoF works for the club not the manager. No DoF is going to sanction 50M+ moves for a Willian or Perisic. It’s short sighted and it’s not like they are elite, world class players who are definitely going to raise is up a level. If I’m Woodward and looking at stats and seeing we get the same production out of Lingard, I’m not spending the money either.

 

[AR87]

I keep seeing the call for a DoF, a DoF would never work under Mourinho and would have disaster written all over it which we’re kind of seeing now with Mourinho’s passive aggressive jabs at Woodward and the squad.

Most calling for a DoF, at least from what I've gathered, would also replace Mourinho with said DoF's preference replacing him.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Mourinho said he gave a list of players to Woodward 4 months ago, so the problem lies with him.

Season after season with Woodward in charge we've had several big, deadline day signings. That may be 'exciting' but as far as I'm concerned that's a real issue for how we're preparing for a season.

 

[el3mel]

He's doing his job.