By the way, if anyone isn't aware, he also has a 134 match home league games unbeaten record going...
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I just don't understand why some of you believe appointing Mourinho would somehow go against the United ethos, or suddenly 'make it all about him'. Why would appointing him mean we'd be throwing away pride & traditions?
Do you honestly think the majestic institution that is our club would suddenly be eclipsed by a manager, albeit a manager of Mourinho's calibre?
No one has the power to throw away our pride & tradition.
These are not rhetorical question -- I'm honestly curious.
I also can't understand how you can be so sure Mourinho would be detrimental to the youth system. You can't take his actions at Chelsea & Inter -- two of the worlds most infamous 'Let's buy success!'-clubs -- as any kind of template for how he'd handle the youth system at a club like United.
I'm just as baffled about the 'dull football' accusations. And like Elvis pointed out, when was the last time we really consistently played free-flowing, attacking football? We've had our moments of course, but we've had just as many 'tactical victories' (eg '08 Barca semi), or simply games where we'd grind out a result.
I'm not complaining -- I'm just trying to inject some realism into this vision of a free-flowing, all-out attacking team suddenly being hamstrung by Mourinho.
As if that wasn't enough, I really can't see why Mourinho wouldn't want the challenge. If there's one thing all the footballing world agrees on, it's the opinion that United will struggle - maybe even collapse -- when Sir Alex retires.
I'm positive someone like Mourinho would jump at the chance to prove them all wrong.
Feels strange to be writing this, as I'm far from a Mourinho fan. I just can't see appointing him as the disaster some of you are envisaging.
Do you honestly think the majestic institution that is our club would suddenly be eclipsed by a manager, albeit a manager of Mourinho's calibre?
No one has the power to throw away our pride & tradition.
These are not rhetorical question -- I'm honestly curious.
I also can't understand how you can be so sure Mourinho would be detrimental to the youth system. You can't take his actions at Chelsea & Inter -- two of the worlds most infamous 'Let's buy success!'-clubs -- as any kind of template for how he'd handle the youth system at a club like United.
I'm just as baffled about the 'dull football' accusations. And like Elvis pointed out, when was the last time we really consistently played free-flowing, attacking football? We've had our moments of course, but we've had just as many 'tactical victories' (eg '08 Barca semi), or simply games where we'd grind out a result.
I'm not complaining -- I'm just trying to inject some realism into this vision of a free-flowing, all-out attacking team suddenly being hamstrung by Mourinho.
As if that wasn't enough, I really can't see why Mourinho wouldn't want the challenge. If there's one thing all the footballing world agrees on, it's the opinion that United will struggle - maybe even collapse -- when Sir Alex retires.
I'm positive someone like Mourinho would jump at the chance to prove them all wrong.
Feels strange to be writing this, as I'm far from a Mourinho fan. I just can't see appointing him as the disaster some of you are envisaging.
Cracking post that one above!
I think I've disscussed this with waltruate before and if I'm right can confirm he isn't a big mourinho fan, yet even he sees how ridiculous some arguement are.
Yeah that's just ridiculous. He's only ever lost 1 home league game.
Good post, particularly the point about youth. Arnesen was stolen controversially from Spurs to aid youth development, Mourinho would have had little say in it as it was his job to deliver the League (Which he did twice) and the Champions League (Unlucky not to do). Basically to make Chelsea into one of the biggest clubs in the world. First 2 years he certainly did that and they smashed every record going in 04/05.
Wenger gets a huge amount of credit for his Unbeaten season, but Mourinho's only defeat that season came from the penalty spot and they finished on more points and won more games.
As I said earler, doesn't get the credit he deserves. Moreso when you consider it was his first season in English football.
As well as that awesome Robben/Duff team he also had Joe Cole playing the best and most exciting football of his career. Cleary NOT a boring manager and definitely someone who would enjoy developing our youth.
I agree with some of your post, but equally, the pro-Mourinho mafia on here being extremely dismissive of any concerns is equally hard to understand and getting to be pretty annoying as there is no debate just 'would it feck' or equally intelligent counterarguments.
The bolded part I think is extremely debatable. The club has very good foundations in place for future success, the only issue really is the Glazers and the potential lack of funds available for SAFs successor. To say people think we may 'collapse' is pretty over the top.
Again, just for the sake of it even though people won't bother to read...
09/10 - Inter (top scorers in Serie A now)
08/09 - Inter (top scorers in Serie A)
07/08 - out of job
06/07 - Chelsea (2nd top scorers in PL)
05/06 - Chelsea (top scorers in PL)
04/05 - Chelsea (2nd top scorers in PL)
03/04 - Porto (top scorers in Por Liga)
02/03 - Porto (2nd top scorers in Por Liga)
How exactly do his dull 1-0 teams outscore everyone in their respective leagues so often?
Wait, i've only just seen that so i'll say this before go. Tbh i'm getting a bit fed up of arguing, i've had enough arguments on here today, but feck it.
Mourinho was given a fecking warchest to spend on his team, lets bear that in mind, he wouldnt if he came to us. He had a fecking good squad at Chelsea, and an excellent starting 11.
The way Mourinho played in England, is that they'd score a goal and go 1-0 up, soak up the pressure which they was capable of doing, because of their solid midfield and defence and then just tire the opposition by passing them to death, although it wasnt exactly artistic passing mastery.
In the end, when they tired the opposition, they'd end up scoring another by catching them on the break and they'd win 2-0, this happened very often. So how did they score so many goals? Simple, if they had conceded, they'd outscore you, thats how solid he built his team. So what about the 4 and 5 nils? Poor opposition, it happens every season. We played the worst football in a long time last season and managed a few 4-0s against the opposition.
Now i'm glad what i've said turned out to be true, because i've just found stastics from the season under Mourinho, the 2005/06 one:
I may be wrong, but I counted that as 6 1-0s and 12 2-0's. Whats wrong with 2-0's you ask? Read above for my theory on it.
Now lets have a look at our results in 2006/07, now before I say this, i'd like to to tell you that i'd take a 3-1 over a 2-0 any day. I'll count how many 1-0's and 2-0's to keep this fair.
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Right, so I had a look on the Stretford end, and we had 5 1-0's and just three 2-0 wins during that season, and 2 of those 1-0 wins were against Lille in the CL. Amazing football that season.
If you'd like to see those stats yourself, then here you go.
I cant believe how some of you are forgetting how dire Jose's football was at Chelsea, its incredible. The fact i'm using statistics which I hate doing is just incredible
Now you lot better reply to that, otherwise i've just wasted a lot of time, now i'm off for a run.
That was in response to a bullshit comment, he got an answer of similar intelligence as his post so he could understand it, or did you not notice the expansion in following posts?
I'm not so sure about this, youth development hasn't appeared to be one of his key priorities from what I've seen so far
Hang on a moment, so you're saying it's BAD to score a goal, grind down the opposition, and score another goal?
Anyway, if I counted correctly, that Barca side everyone is wanking over has 7 1-0 wins and 8 2-0 wins this season.
Anyway, if I counted correctly, that Barca side everyone is wanking over has 7 1-0 wins and 8 2-0 wins this season.
The only thing about Jose is can you see him going to the house of a young Ryan Giggs in a bid to bring him to OT. Or go abroad to watch some 16 or 17 year old play. Or developing personal relations with the parents of the young players that guarantees they develop a strong bond to United. Or keeping in touch with some obscure player who barely played at United. Being arsed about rebuilding a team after the previous teams cycle ends. In all the jobs Jose has been at he's built one team and then quit or moved on. These are the things SAF has. These are great qualities and brilliant man management. SAF's vision is always 50% now and 50% long term. Im not sure we'll ever get anyone like that.
Jose would be a great stop gap type manager. Help the transition by ensuring we keep winning 3-4 years after SAF. But he will not be here for the long term. Not sure if thats a bad thing or not.
Jose would be a great stop gap type manager. Help the transition by ensuring we keep winning 3-4 years after SAF. But he will not be here for the long term. Not sure if thats a bad thing or not.
07 Aug 2005 Community Shield Chelsea 2_ v _ 1 Arsenal
13 Aug 2005 Barclays Premiership Wigan 0 _ v _ 1 Chelsea, 15:00
20 Aug 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 1_ v _0 Arsenal, 15:00
24 Aug 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 4 _ v _0 West Brom, 19:45
27 Aug 2005 Barclays Premiership Tottenham 0_ v _2 Chelsea, 15:00
10 Sept 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 2 _ v _ 0 Sunderland, 15:00
17 Sept 2005 Barclays Premiership Charlton 0 _ v _ 2 Chelsea, 15:00
24 Sept 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 2 _ v _ 0 Aston Villa, 15:00
01 Oct 2005 Barclays Premiership Liverpool 1 _ v _4 Chelsea, 15:00
15 Oct 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 5_ v _ 1 Bolton, 15:00
22 Oct 2005 Barclays Premiership Everton 1 _ v _ 1 Chelsea, 15:00
29 Oct 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 4 _ v _2 Blackburn, 15:00
05 Nov 2005 Barclays Premiership Man Utd 1_ v _ 0 Chelsea, 15:00
19 Nov 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 3 _ v _ 0 Newcastle, 15:00
26 Nov 2005 Barclays Premiership Portsmouth 0 _ v _ 2 Chelsea, 15:00
03 Dec 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 1 _ v _ 0 Middlesbrough
10 Dec 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 1 _ v _ 0 Wigan, 15:00
17 Dec 2005 Barclays Premiership Arsenal 0 _ v _ 2 Chelsea, 15:00
26 Dec 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 3_ v _ 2 Fulham, 15:00
28 Dec 2005 Barclays Premiership Man City 0 _ v _ 1 Chelsea, 19:45
31 Dec 2005 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 2 _ v _ 0 Birmingham, 15:00
02 Jan 2006 Barclays Premiership West Ham 1 v 3 Chelsea, 15:00
14 Jan 2006 Barclays Premiership Sunderland 1 _ v _ 2 Chelsea, 15:00
21 Jan 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 1 _ v _ 1 Charlton, 15:00
01 Feb 2006 Barclays Premiership Aston Villa 1 _ v _ 1 Chelsea, 19:45
04 Feb 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 2 _ v _ 0 Liverpool, 15:00
11 Feb 2006 Barclays Premiership Middlesb. 4 _ v _ 1 Chelsea, 15:00
25 Feb 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 2 _ v _ 0 Portsmouth, 15:00
04 Mar 2006 Barclays Premiership West Brom 1 _ v _ 2 Chelsea, 15:00
11 Mar 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 1 _ v _ 1 Tottenham, 15:00
18 Mar 2006 Barclays Premiership Fulham 0 _ v _ 1 Chelsea, 15:00
25 Mar 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 2 _ v _ 0 Man City, 15:00
01 Apr 2006 Barclays Premiership Birmingham 0 _ v _ 0 Chelsea, 15:00
08 Apr 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 4 _ v _ 1 West Ham, 15:00
15 Apr 2006 Barclays Premiership Bolton 0 _ v _ 2 Chelsea, 15:00
17 Apr 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 3 _ v _ 0 Everton, 15:00
29 Apr 2006 Barclays Premiership Chelsea 3 _ v _ 0 Man Utd, 15:00
02 May 2006 Barclays Premiership Blackburn 1 _ v _ 0 Chelsea, 15:00
07 May 2006 Barclays Premiership Newcastle 1 _ v _ 0 Chelsea, 15:00
What a ridiculous rant
Enjoy your run, I'm off to bed.
Firstly mac how many did they score in relation to us, and not you 39 games you gave us on your previous post, I want Europe, carling cup and FA cup added at some point.
It's impossible to say, he has been told to win at all costs by roman and morratti, which e has done with flying colours.
It's impossible to say, he has been told to win at all costs by roman and morratti, which e has done with flying colours.
I would say that is probably my main concern with appointing him. We seem to have undergone a real transformation of the academy in recent years and have a number of exciting players that will be coming through in the next 3/4 years and is he the best person available to manage their integration into the first team squad?
In fairness, he seems to be open to blooding younger players at Inter with Santon and Balotelli, but youth development doesn't appear to be one of his strengths.
Very harsh, he has never been given this chance anywhere so how could he do these things?
The only thing more annoying than player fan-boys are manager fan-boys.
exactly
And the only thing more annoying than manager fan-boys is johnmufc and his pointless posts
Yes he did, but as we've seen down the years with Spurs, Liverpool and now City, spending money and achieving success is a difficult thing to do. Mourinho came in and in his first season broke pretty much every record we'd set in previous Premier League seasons. In his first season. Whichever way you want to spin it, you can't deny that is very impressive.
So you dismiss the 4 and 5 nils and blame poor opposition, and yet you criticise him for 'only' getting 1 and 2 nils against the better opposition? Odd.
2-0, 3-1, does it really matter? The original point you made was that United play a style of football that is the envy of the world, when clearly we do not and have not done for some team. When it comes down to the big games, especially in Europe, we revert to a 4-5-1, soak up the pressure, and hit teams on the counter attack. The very tactic your criticising Mourinho for.
Don't disagree, for the most part in 06/07 we were a joy to watch, towards the end of the season we faded a bit. But yes, for the most part we were brilliant. Since then though we haven't got anywhere close to that level of football.
In 07/08 we had 7 1-0's and 7 2-0's, in 08/09 we had 10 1-0's and 5 2-0's.
I cant believe how some of you are forgetting how dire Jose's football was at Chelsea, its incredible. The fact i'm using statistics which I hate doing is just incredible
At times it was dire. At times we've been dire. Arsenal have been dire at times. Barcelona are dire at times too. To say Mourinho's football is always dire is nonsense. Go re-watch the 2004/05 season, Chelsea produced some of the best football of the decade at times. 05/06 they weren't as good but they were still very good. And each time I've watched Inter they've impressed me very much (Not a huge amount and mainly in the CL).
Take tonight for example, a fantastic performance against the Champions of Europe in which he started not one, not two, but three strikers. When was the last time we lined up in such a big game and started 3 strikers?
This always crops up when no-one has an argument against the points that are being made.
All this 'United way' and 'United ethos' stuff sounds very scouse, and we know how they ended up trying to keep doing things the 'Liverpool way'.
Boring boring Chelsea racing into a 3-0 lead against Barcelona inside 20 minutes:
Winning 2-0 the whole time is fine by me.
Mourinho's just a fecking winner, it's that simple. And he's got the self-belief you need to succeed at OT.
He talks too much but, it's true, but on the other hand he's funny.
Mourinho's just a fecking winner, it's that simple. And he's got the self-belief you need to succeed at OT.
He talks too much but, it's true, but on the other hand he's funny.
This was the same night we were beaten 1-0 by Milan with Crespo's brilliant header, and I can still remember the Sky Sports Info Bar coming up every 2 minutes. Chelsea 1-0, Chelsea 2-0, Chelsea 3-0.
I remembered that more than our game in which we were pants.
I may be wrong, but I counted that as 6 1-0s and 12 2-0's. Whats wrong with 2-0's you ask? Read above for my theory on it.
Now lets have a look at our results in 2006/07, now before I say this, i'd like to to tell you that i'd take a 3-1 over a 2-0 any day. I'll count how many 1-0's and 2-0's to keep this fair.
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Right, so I had a look on the Stretford end, and we had 5 1-0's and just three 2-0 wins during that season, and 2 of those 1-0 wins were against Lille in the CL. Amazing football that season.
If you'd like to see those stats yourself, then here you go.
I cant believe how some of you are forgetting how dire Jose's football was at Chelsea, its incredible. The fact i'm using statistics which I hate doing is just incredible
Now you lot better reply to that, otherwise i've just wasted a lot of time, now i'm off for a run.
Regarding your theory on 2-0s; does it also apply to 3-0s? I mean you could very easily score in the first half, grind out to the end and then grab two undeserved late goals.
What about 4-0. A lucky early goal, a goal mid first half and then a grind, with two late goals against tiring opposition.
Hmm, now I've typed it out, it seems quite convincing.
Let's be honest, we weren't that good in 06-07. We won all our games 1-0, just that in some of them we scored more goals (that didn't really count).
Personal dislike of the bloke aside, my only concerns are how he would do here without alot of money to invest in building his squad and his youth record. It has been pointed out ( quite rightly ) that he has never had the chance to develop youth before, he may be good at it, but may not and that worries me.
feck me, this is going to be a long post.
What? Give me an example of a young player he's brought through. Santon and Balotelli are fecking wonderkids. A blind fecking chimp could see that they've got potential to be the very best. Give me an example of a..I dont know, a Darron Gibson type player who he's brought through. Somebody who isnt absolutely guaranteed to become a first team starter in the future. SAF has had loads of these types of players, thats what I love, and if they dont make it here, he's at least enhanced their reputation to continue to have a good reputation elsewhere, for example, Frazer Campbell, Giuseppe Rossi, the list is absolutely endless.
I cant think of any at Mourinho and Chelsea.
I never said it was bad to do that, i'm saying its not attacking football. My word, its like talking to a brick wall to some people on here.
A ridiculous rant? Give me a reason why, you tool.
My run was good thanks, I almost trod on a dead kitten though, wont be going down there again.
Why dont you go check that out if you're so bothered.
Right, the same Roman who told him to play attacking football in his second season
What? Give me an example of a young player he's brought through. Santon and Balotelli are fecking wonderkids. A blind fecking chimp could see that they've got potential to be the very best. Give me an example of a..I dont know, a Darron Gibson type player who he's brought through. Somebody who isnt absolutely guaranteed to become a first team starter in the future. SAF has had loads of these types of players, thats what I love, and if they dont make it here, he's at least enhanced their reputation to continue to have a good reputation elsewhere, for example, Frazer Campbell, Giuseppe Rossi, the list is absolutely endless.
I cant think of any at Mourinho and Chelsea.
Hang on a moment, so you're saying it's BAD to score a goal, grind down the opposition, and score another goal?
Anyway, if I counted correctly, that Barca side everyone is wanking over has 7 1-0 wins and 8 2-0 wins this season.
I never said it was bad to do that, i'm saying its not attacking football. My word, its like talking to a brick wall to some people on here.
What a ridiculous rant
Enjoy your run, I'm off to bed.
A ridiculous rant? Give me a reason why, you tool.
My run was good thanks, I almost trod on a dead kitten though, wont be going down there again.
Why dont you go check that out if you're so bothered.
Right, the same Roman who told him to play attacking football in his second season
It's so easy to pick out exceptions where Mourinho's team play entertaining football Elvis but overall if you take the entire season into consideration it's awful to watch.One of the things I love the most about United is the style of play and I'm afraid with Mourinho it will be depressing football
You speak far too much sense in here, BURN HIM!!
So do I understand right? You're boring unless you concede?
His Chelsea team were far from boring. They were just so good at defending and so organized that weaker teams couldn't beat them, against top sides who didn't fear to attack them it usually became interesting and dare I say entertaining like those Barcelona ties (almost always crackers).
He did not give much space to teams like Bolton or Blackburn so he usually beat them without conceding, and it could hardly be any interesting as it was usually like a golden goal competition. I don't think opposite fans enjoy watching United win 3-0 or something, anyone from a neutral point of view would take 3-2 over 3-0 anyday of a week, from fan's point of view it's a different kettle.
His Chelsea team were far from boring. They were just so good at defending and so organized that weaker teams couldn't beat them, against top sides who didn't fear to attack them it usually became interesting and dare I say entertaining like those Barcelona ties (almost always crackers).
He did not give much space to teams like Bolton or Blackburn so he usually beat them without conceding, and it could hardly be any interesting as it was usually like a golden goal competition. I don't think opposite fans enjoy watching United win 3-0 or something, anyone from a neutral point of view would take 3-2 over 3-0 anyday of a week, from fan's point of view it's a different kettle.
He took a Porto team to their first title in 4 years, won the UEFA Cup, and the following season followed it up by retaining the League title and winning the Champions League. That's a bloody good achievement. He then went to Chelsea and took them to their first title in 50 years, and followed it up with another one 12 months later. Now he's taken Inter to a Serie A title, is on the verge of another, and is enjoying their best success in the Champions League for years, and is most likely heading to a second final in 6 years. It took Fergie 13 years to reach his first final and 9 more after that to reach his second. Give Mourinho a bit of credit, even if you don't like his style of play.
Terry and Lampard were both at Chelsea yes, but both became true World Class players upon his arrival and both have credited Mourinho with that on numerous occassions. Terry won the PFA player of the year under Mourinho in his first season, becoming the first defender in yonks to do so, and the first Chelsea player to ever win it. You're telling me the manager plays no part?
And the reason Cech was so good is because he had the best defense in the world in front of him, then Makelele in front of them. They were a bloody tought team to break down and, particularly in his first 18 months or so there, you knew that if you went a goal down against Chelsea there was no way back. 1-0 and it was game over. That's a very hard thing to achieve.
He can only beat what is in front of him at the end of the day, and he did that to great effect. His first season he was up against the Invincibles of Arsenal so making out there were no good teams is nonsense. What the feck is wrong with a 2-0 anyway? If we won all 38 of our league games 2-0 I'd be delighted.
Our recent success has been built from the back, a solid defence which has allowed the midfield and attack to thrive. Having a solid backline and keeping clean-sheets is something you ought to be proud of, not diminish and claim it's boring.
We tried 4-4-2 for many years and it didn't work. We switch to 4-5-1 and we have arguably our best ever spell in Europe in our history, I know which I'd prefer. Gung ho isn't always the best way to win a game. Our 2008 games against Barcelona may not have been the greatest games to watch on the eye, but we put in a defensive masterclass and that was something great to watch. The attacking prowess of Barcelona being thwarted again and again. It was great!
You didn't answer my question, when was the last time we started with 3 strikers in a Champions League semi-final? Against Wolfsburg we barely had any defenders fit and that's why we had to resort to playing so many midfielders.
Football is first and foremost about entertainment. I'd rather see us win 4-2 or 5-3 than 2-0 every game. Not saying thats realistic or anything, before you all go ape shit
Exactly, I can think of many cracking games with Chelsea. The tie against Bayern Munich was another brilliant one. Games against Barcelona were always fun. Chelsea v Liverpool were always great tactically battles between two very tactical astute managers.
Seems my point about Barca having 15 1-0 or 2-0 wins this season has been completely ignored.
Seems my point about Barca having 15 1-0 or 2-0 wins this season has been completely ignored.
Take it as a good sign
Look, Elivs, I read about a third of that and I still cant believe you want an argument I'll summarise the first part and reply to the rest tomorrow morning if you like?
Mourinho is a bloody good manager, i've never disputed that. I dont like his style. He makes me laugh and everything, but did you see Sky today? I think I heard Mourinho mentioned more than anything else.
Terry and Lampard were getting to an age where they start to reach their prime, besides some would argue Lampard is having his best ever season - not me - but its debatable. Regarding Terry again, while he was good that season, the hype surrounding him didnt help. The fact he's English, the Captain and 'ard as nails also helped. You say his manager helps, yeah without, but I dont think he had that big of an influence. Terry won Chelsea player of the year in 2001.
I'll agree about Cech, but he wasnt making the mistakes he does these days.
We could really do with a few Chelsea fans to help this debate right now.
I'll summarise the first part and reply to the rest tomorrow morning if you like? Mourinho is a bloody good manager, i've never disputed that. I dont like his style. He makes me laugh and everything, but did you see Sky today? I think I heard Mourinho mentioned more than anything else.
Terry and Lampard were getting to an age where they start to reach their prime, besides some would argue Lampard is having his best ever season - not me - but its debatable. Regarding Terry again, while he was good that season, the hype surrounding him didnt help. The fact he's English, the Captain and 'ard as nails also helped. You say his manager helps, yeah without, but I dont think he had that big of an influence. Terry won Chelsea player of the year in 2001.
I'll agree about Cech, but he wasnt making the mistakes he does these days.
We could really do with a few Chelsea fans to help this debate right now.
Seems my point about Barca having 15 1-0 or 2-0 wins this season has been completely ignored.
Because its silly. You have to be truly fecking retarted to even think Barcelona dont at least try and play good football. They have a completely different forward line to last year, but are still playing well, regardless.
My opinion is that while Mourinho had similar results, he did not play attractive football, simple.
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