Maguire | NOT McGuire or MacGuire

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luke511 said:
He's a much better player than Jones no doubt, but he's viable to the same sort of inconsistencies as Jones is in my opinion. The odd moment where you question how they have made a career in top level football. His aerial threat makes me him a big asset to a manager like Mourinho, but if we do end up signing him I can bet everything I have that there'll be numerous occasions where the fans are calling for his head on here because of his brainfart mistakes.
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Phil Jones best attributes are his athleticism (actually seems to have lost a yard of pace last season) and determination
Maguire is a intelligent CB, their not comparable in styles or ability at all. I mean, reading through this thread, its clear a lot of people have never watched Maguire before the WC and are just basing their opinions off the threat he carried from set pieces
 
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Offside said:
100%. I bet half of them have barely watched much of Leicester. It’s the caf’s weird perceptions of transfers that override so much opinion. Because he’s a big lad from Sheffield he must be a big shite lump. I’d love us to get a player who’s such a warrior and leader like Steve Bruce.
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Only 4 teams conceded more goals than Leicester last year. Phil Jones should've warded us off signing average defenders from mid level prem teams. He won't be an upgrade on anyone. We must be able to find someone actually top class surely?
 
Stacks said:
Only 4 teams conceded more goals than Leicester last year. Phil Jones should've warded us off signing average defenders from mid level prem teams. He won't be an upgrade on anyone. We must be able to find someone actually top class surely?
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Varane was signed from relegated team. Bonucci, Barzagli, Benatia were all signed from the teams that conceded heavily.

Lyon were 9th best defensively when they had Umtiti and still Barca signed him.

Leicester conceded 60 goals last season, Skriniar's team conceded 55 goals before signing for Inter.

Villarreal had 15th best defensive record when Godin played for them, before moving to Atletico Madrid.

Goals conceded is not the way to judge individual defenders.

Saying that, hopefully we are not in for him. He is good player who can carry the ball from defense, but don't think he is so much better than what we have.
 
starman said:
For the people that say they dont rate Maguire, its good and well. But when statements are made saying hes just another Phil Jones, you really have to question that persons competence in evaluating a players ability
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I'd say the comparison is apt but only if we look at what might have been for Jones. He's what Jones looked like he might be when he was younger. Not what Sir Alex saw, but what most people saw as a teen. He's better than Jones has managed so far, though mainly in terms of ball skills and heading
 
Don’t believe he would improve us at all. We have talented defenders in Bailly, smalling, rojo, Jones, lindelof and I think somebody like godin or even bonucci for a season or two would be a smarter move while another target is identified. Spending a fortune on a lesser player than smalling would be very disappointing.
 
starman said:
For the people that say they dont rate Maguire, its good and well. But when statements are made saying hes just another Phil Jones, you really have to question that persons competence in evaluating a players ability
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Check Jones performance when he was young player at ManUtd. He also used to make all these forward runs from CB position and used to dribble past players as a RB too. His injuries fecked him up though.
 
MadDogg said:
He's certainly better than you'd expect in that regard, but he definitely had trouble with those types of players at times in that season. Of course there was the match where he held his own against Lukaku, but there were other matches where his physical limitations were exposed.

I do agree that so far (and the emphasis is on 'so far') Lindelof has looked a downgrade on what Blind was in that season he had at centreback. Obviously the idea is that hopefully Lindelof ends up bringing all the advantages of Blind while being stronger and faster, but we haven't seen it so far.
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If I remember correctly, Blind had problem with pacey player (who usually has physical presence as well). But his positioning and passing make up for that disadvantage". Pairing with Smalling, they're so good. I don't know why Mou thought it was a good idea to breaking it up then bought a bunch of CB or experimenting with a bunch of new CB pairs.

At the end of those journey, Mou then still has Smalling as the main guy, but pairing him with a "lesser clone of Blind" (as GB pointed it out).

This is where I see Maguire as the "better clone of Blind". I think him and Smalling would make a very good pair, a better version of Blind - Smalling.
 
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Leicester doesn't need money. We should offer Lindeloff + Cash, if we want to try purchasing Maguire.

Or wait until Winter. Without Mahrez, Leicester will be more defensive, that is the time we assist Maguire. Last year 60 goals, assuming 30 goals conceded per half period of the League.

If he survived at least only 20 goals conceded, lets bid him at Winter.
 
Stacks said:
Only 4 teams conceded more goals than Leicester last year. Phil Jones should've warded us off signing average defenders from mid level prem teams. He won't be an upgrade on anyone. We must be able to find someone actually top class surely?
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Hull conceded the most in the league the season before when he was part of their defence as well, 80 goals :nervous:
 
If we want a ball playing CB then shell out for Koulibaly. Will probably take VVD money, but atleast we get one of the best instead of Maguire for nearly the same price.
 
Stepping forward with the ball is one of Maguire's most attractive traits(and also one of his main weaknesses to exploit, he gets forward but his recovery pace in transition is poor, struggle to get back) but a CB in a Mou lead team is not going to have that freedom to advance. I could see his aerial power being of interest to Mou, in both boxes, if we sit deep, look to counter and be highly efficient on set pieces. His passing good, but he had a few sloppy spells, both against Colombia and Croatia which contributed to England losing momentum and control, so while it is good it is not exceptional.

Still have serious reservation about his defensive ability against top class attackers when isolated, the WC showed that he can handle pressure, but he wasn't up against the level of attackers he will need to be able to hold against for Utd to win leagues and go far in the CL. He made plenty of basic errors last year at Leicester, the type that at Utd will get him eviscerated.
 
Bobski said:
Stepping forward with the ball is one of Maguire's most attractive traits(and also one of his main weaknesses to exploit, he gets forward but his recovery pace in transition is poor, struggle to get back) but a CB in a Mou lead team is not going to have that freedom to advance. I could see his aerial power being of interest to Mou, in both boxes, if we sit deep, look to counter and be highly efficient on set pieces. His passing good, but he had a few sloppy spells, both against Colombia and Croatia which contributed to England losing momentum and control, so while it is good it is not exceptional.

Still have serious reservation about his defensive ability against top class attackers when isolated, the WC showed that he can handle pressure, but he wasn't up against the level of attackers he will need to be able to hold against for Utd to win leagues and go far in the CL. He made plenty of basic errors last year at Leicester, the type that at Utd will get him eviscerated.
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Great post, agree with all points. A 5 man defence compliments a centre back's ability in my opinion, I saw on numerous occasions last season where he had Jones like slip ups but didn't have 2 other CBs covering his back like he did in the world cup.
 
Maguire is massively overrated. Had a half decent world cup, but England only played two good teams and were beat three times!

Don't see anything in Maguire that we don't already have in TFM OR Tuanzebe, other than Fellaini-like overgrowth - which does not make up for footballing shortcomings.

Really hope all this Maguire stuff is just post-world cup hype.
 
Bobski said:
Stepping forward with the ball is one of Maguire's most attractive traits(and also one of his main weaknesses to exploit, he gets forward but his recovery pace in transition is poor, struggle to get back) but a CB in a Mou lead team is not going to have that freedom to advance. I could see his aerial power being of interest to Mou, in both boxes, if we sit deep, look to counter and be highly efficient on set pieces. His passing good, but he had a few sloppy spells, both against Colombia and Croatia which contributed to England losing momentum and control, so while it is good it is not exceptional.

Still have serious reservation about his defensive ability against top class attackers when isolated, the WC showed that he can handle pressure, but he wasn't up against the level of attackers he will need to be able to hold against for Utd to win leagues and go far in the CL. He made plenty of basic errors last year at Leicester, the type that at Utd will get him eviscerated.
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Agree with this. I'm also not convinced with him at the the side of a back 3. While he did fine for the most part defending in that system, a 3 man defense expects the outside CBs to come out wide and confront attackers on the break. He's not a particularly great tackler and I think players with pace and dribbling skills will fancy themselves to have a good time against him.

I think we're talking an upgrade on Jones & Rojo but someone far from being a guaranteed longterm starter at United. He might improve or more likely he'd struggle to even keep up his decent England form from the World Cup over the course of several seasons.

For me giving Lindelof and Bailly another chance makes more sense than paying a huge amount for Maguire
 
iKeano said:
Maguire is massively overrated. Had a half decent world cup, but England only played two good teams and were beat three times!

Don't see anything in Maguire that we don't already have in TFM OR Tuanzebe, other than Fellaini-like overgrowth - which does not make up for footballing shortcomings.

Really hope all this Maguire stuff is just post-world cup hype.
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Seriously? Seems to be some typical bit of overrating youngsters just because they play for us.
 
roonster09 said:
Varane was signed from relegated team. Bonucci, Barzagli, Benatia were all signed from the teams that conceded heavily.

Lyon were 9th best defensively when they had Umtiti and still Barca signed him.

Leicester conceded 60 goals last season, Skriniar's team conceded 55 goals before signing for Inter.

Villarreal had 15th best defensive record when Godin played for them, before moving to Atletico Madrid.

Goals conceded is not the way to judge individual defenders.

Saying that, hopefully we are not in for him. He is good player who can carry the ball from defense, but don't think he is so much better than what we have.
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fair enough.
 
jmaggio said:
If Maguire was called Maguiré or Maguirinho the Caf would be all for this.
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Ever since the 90s, there's always been a tranche of fans for whom Excito Foreigno is preferred to John Dull. Fergie though understood how important maintaining a core of British/Irish players was to integrating the Excitos he signed. If there was a top English player, better than what we already had, not already playing for one of the big teams, you'd better believe he'd be in for them.

It was an appropriate strategy for England's biggest club and remains so.
 
MittenCrab said:
Ever since the 90s, there's always been a tranche of fans for whom Excito Foreigno is preferred to John Dull. Fergie though understood how important maintaining a core of British/Irish players was to integrating the Excitos he signed. If there was a top English player, better than what we already had, not already playing for one of the big teams, you'd better believe he'd be in for them.

It was an appropriate strategy for England's biggest club and remains so.
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I'm all for this, I'd much rather us chase Tierney instead of Sandro if Shaw fails this season for that exact reason. However Maguire's price will be at a massive premium now after the world cup combined with Leicester's rich owners' position, and we'll be getting ripped off in my opinion. He'd be a good addition don't get me wrong, but paying 50/60+ million for a centreback that has his Phil Jones moments on quite a regular basis is a big gamble.
 
We were linked with Harry Maguire in the very early Moyes days.

Sir Alex was said to have been scouting him before he retired. If he was still manager we’d probably have signed him from Hull. He’s an immense talent.
 
luke511 said:
Smalling for 10 mil? Do you even watch us play? :lol:
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MittenCrab said:
Ever since the 90s, there's always been a tranche of fans for whom Excito Foreigno is preferred to John Dull. Fergie though understood how important maintaining a core of British/Irish players was to integrating the Excitos he signed. If there was a top English player, better than what we already had, not already playing for one of the big teams, you'd better believe he'd be in for them.

It was an appropriate strategy for England's biggest club and remains so.
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Completely agree. I feel that it has always been a big part of United's history to have a strong core of players from the Home nations, even before Fergie. I see no problem with the intentions of the club to pursue the best in British talent, as we have been doing for years, and mix this core with players from abroad. Sometimes it works well for us (Rooney, Ferdinand, Bruce) and sometimes not so well (Phil Jones) but this can be said about our transfers of players from all nations.
 
Judas said:
Seriously? Seems to be some typical bit of overrating youngsters just because they play for us.
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Rather give them a chance than spend £50m on a limited player that's had an easy world cup.
 
Offside said:
We were linked with Harry Maguire in the very early Moyes days.

Sir Alex was said to have been scouting him before he retired. If he was still manager we’d probably have signed him from Hull. He’s an immense talent.
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Need to rethink the words "immense talent". he was signed for the paltry fee of 16 million because that's what his "immense talent" had warranted. A few headers in the world cup later and people are really on one over Maguire.
 
MittenCrab said:
Ever since the 90s, there's always been a tranche of fans for whom Excito Foreigno is preferred to John Dull. Fergie though understood how important maintaining a core of British/Irish players was to integrating the Excitos he signed. If there was a top English player, better than what we already had, not already playing for one of the big teams, you'd better believe he'd be in for them.

It was an appropriate strategy for England's biggest club and remains so.
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Maybe, just maybe, foreign players offer more value in the market. A Wenger suggested, more English players just means more average players.
 
MadDogg said:
Maguire is a far better passer than what Jones ever was though, and that is more important than dribbling ability.
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Yep, I remember many a Jones run forward, only to try some kind of over the top ball and massively overhit it every time, to the point where it was mind boggling how bad he was at it.
 
Stacks said:
Maybe, just maybe, foreign players offer more value in the market. A Wenger suggested, more English players just means more average players.
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And look what happened to Wenger.. A complete lack of leaders, team spirit and togetherness in his side for over a decade.
 
Stacks said:
Need to rethink the words "immense talent". he was signed for the paltry fee of 16 million because that's what his "immense talent" had warranted. A few headers in the world cup later and people are really on one over Maguire.
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Funny that Sir Alex Ferguson wanted him as a teenager, he won Hull Player of the Year before signing for Leicester where he then won Leicester Player of the Year before being one of England’s standout performers at their best World Cup arguably since 1966.

We’ve all got it wrong though. Someone should tell Fergie and then all those professionals who play with him every single week at Leicester that it’s just a few headers at the World Cup. He’s garbage, the Caf says so.
 
VeevaVee said:
Yep, I remember many a Jones run forward, only to try some kind of over the top ball and massively overhit it every time, to the point where it was mind boggling how bad he was at it.
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Or the classic run forward with the ball, hesitate for a few seconds, then sideways backpass to the full back or centreback.
 
Offside said:
Funny that Sir Alex Ferguson wanted him as a teenager, he won Hull Player of the Year before signing for Leicester where he then won Leicester Player of the Year before being one of England’s standout performers at their best World Cup arguably since 1966.

We’ve all got it wrong though. Someone should tell Fergie and then all those professionals who play with him every single week at Leicester that it’s just a few headers at the World Cup. He’s garbage, the Caf says so.
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Why try to convince people? It's futile until he signs and the tune changes, which will happen.
 
roonster09 said:
Check Jones performance when he was young player at ManUtd. He also used to make all these forward runs from CB position and used to dribble past players as a RB too. His injuries fecked him up though.
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Yup and that's where his athleticism came into play, much like Gerrard, when that goes, he starts getting exposed. Unfortunately for Jones its happening in his mid 20s

Maguire doesn't rely on any of that, sure hes built like a tank, but he has very footwork, technically astute and a very good passer
 
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iKeano said:
Rather give them a chance than spend £50m on a limited player that's had an easy world cup.
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I'm not so sure about dropping £50m on him either, but he's not a limited player that's his whole gimmick.
 
I come from Sheffield so I know a fair bit about Maguire.

Not that it matters but for the record everyone around Sheffield who knows him has nothing but praise for him, and yes I know this sounds like one of those my cousins best friend stories but I genuinely met a good friend of Maguire who said that after Sheffield United lost the FA cup final he got the supporters coach back up with his mates instead of the team bus. Basically, he's a sound guy with his feet on the ground.

Footballing wise I think he's mis-understood. Because he looks and sounds like a typical English centre-half imagine he to play like a typical English centre-half, but he doesn't. He's a very good with he ball at his feet and is very comfortable bringing the ball out from the back beat a few players and play a nice ball through. Plus everything else about his game is pretty good from what i've seen from him. The only downside is that he's pretty slow.

Still, I'd be very happy if we brought him in.
 
I would prefer Alderweireld - I don't have anything against Maguire, although I am concerned with his lack of experience at top level.
 
I'm all for signing him. Just don't want him to be the last bit of business we do this summer.
 
Raw said:
I'm all for signing him. Just don't want him to be the last bit of business we do this summer.
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The Hirst article says that Mourinho's happy with the current squad so unless something changes regarding Sandro or a right wing target, then it might well be.
 
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