I think we as fans all have PTSD from Moyes, LVG, Jose and Rangnick. We’ll never be able to love again….
Maguire | he stays!
- Thread starter Zoo
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I know this is a toxic post but anyone else think that the hammers have done decent business this window - they wont finish above us will they??
I suspect West Ham dont have the 30m agreed previously, especially given we need a striker in as well still.
We obviously did have but that's been diverted elsewhere now. We sold 140m of players so far, so given little over the sales value (given 50m went on loans from covid this summer) I doubt we have much more than 25-30m left to possibly cover 2 positions before CB.
Hence why we are now trying the loan option. By not paying an extra 3-6m to Maguire, you've possibly screwed yourselves out of 30.
Moyes does want him still, but the options to work with are limited unless SA cones in for Zouma in the next few days.
We obviously did have but that's been diverted elsewhere now. We sold 140m of players so far, so given little over the sales value (given 50m went on loans from covid this summer) I doubt we have much more than 25-30m left to possibly cover 2 positions before CB.
Hence why we are now trying the loan option. By not paying an extra 3-6m to Maguire, you've possibly screwed yourselves out of 30.
Moyes does want him still, but the options to work with are limited unless SA cones in for Zouma in the next few days.
Maybe we can try and do the same thing with other clubs, loan with obligation to pay, maybe not with Amrabat as it’s his last year but maybe the obligation can be applied to January and with champions league money coming in over those months etc we would be able to afford it. We need to do something in the last few days or it will be a tough season for the midfield.
There is no consensus on what was demanded by Maguire and what United was ready to offer.
Blocking a move away for Harry, when we want money in for other transfers as well.. Fake news
You won't get Maguire on loan, so this point really doesn't make sense.
We're restricted with regards to FFP, we'd like to be rid of Maguire but unfortunately the cost of replacing him adequately would be 30-40 mill which we wouldn't have if we gave him his 12mill pay off. Maguire is hated by a lot of United fans but the fact of the matter is he's our 4th/5th option at CB and we'll eventually have to count on him at some part this season. Especially now with Shaw out and Varane who's quite injury prone.
His career wil be over at 32? We all want him gone but why are people so dramatic.
Man Utd have the longest unbroken run of any club in the PL of finishing above West Ham - last time WHU finished higher was 1986. Man City have the second longest.
West Ham have finished above each of Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal at some point since 2016.
I'd guess that our (WHU) league form this year will be a lot closer to 2020-2022 when we finished 6th and 7th than last year, and the squad seems stronger now than it did in either of those years. If we get the last few days of the window right, we'll be back at that level.
Either we sell and buy a replacement or we decline any loan move
The reports about blocking a move are most likely a loan. But if it's a loan drive a hard bargain, obligation to buy with minimal 10 games in as a clause. Increase the loan fee.
The club leaking that Maguire is holding up the transfer due to his pay off demands is either genius or utter incompetence. Depending on who is doing it.
It’s basically Man Utd fronting like a heavy weight after taking oil injections to make itself look bigger. This type of move you only make if you know that if Maguire stays you can be certain you’ll never use him even if you get 3-4 injuries.
It’s basically Man Utd fronting like a heavy weight after taking oil injections to make itself look bigger. This type of move you only make if you know that if Maguire stays you can be certain you’ll never use him even if you get 3-4 injuries.
With City they've got a system when it comes to their transfers that was put in place by Brian Marwood who joined them in 2009 from Nike. And it was under him that the football structure developed and still exists today. And for a recruitment structure to function well, you need very capable head scouts who will direct the recruitment department. And if you don't have capable head scouts, the DoF will fail when it comes to recruitment. And City's recruitment is run by Gary Worthington at first team level and he is a former Man Utd youth player from the mid 80s.
And the DoF's role in this is to empower the recruitment structure whilst connecting all the football departments to each other which creates joined up thinking and a aligned approach throughout the football departments. So it's important to have a DoF because you want him to create a uniformed approach on the football side of the club, which creates the conditions for the football departments to thrive. But the most important person when it comes to recruitment is the head scout and not the DoF. And at City they have the added advantage of being backed by a nation state.
look like United's stuck with Maguire for another season. Sad.
This club reeks of incompetence.
This club reeks of incompetence.
What would you suggest to the management on how they can get rid of Maguire?
Would've sold him last season when he still had some market value.
Is there any chance we'd let him go if we don't have time to get a replacement in? I feel like its too late in the window for a move unfortunately.
I wish we had just taken the 60 for him and scott and reinvested them properly.
I wish we had just taken the 60 for him and scott and reinvested them properly.
To whom?
RR said there is a reluctance to let expensive players move on, and we have seen it so many times over the years. Moving players on is something we definitely need to get better at, am quite envious of how City let players move on and make good money from the sale. This reluctance is definitely coming from the top, probably Murtough under instruction from The Glazers imo. It just stinks of their out of touch approach.
I suppose it is to do with selling players at a loss - board doesn’t want to do it because it shows up as a loss on the books. The money being “lost”, like pouring water down the drain, when you have players barely contributing, earning huge wages and become less valuable as an asset by the day, will just show as a planned expense, which someone seems to think is better business.
You didnt ask me but, I think we should have got another CB(like Todibo/Pavard), accepted WHU 30M bid, offered Maguire a compromise payoff(somewhere between the proposed 6 and demanded 12), and told him if he doesnt accept he is gonna be 6th choice CB at United.
Maguire would be out of the door pretty soon after that I reckon. Would have done this just after stripping him off the captaincy.
Is that cold and cruel? Yes. But we need to be ruthless.
A lot of Captain Hindsight’s in this thread
I don’t think there was anything special about City’s success though, and no normal club could hope to replicate it.
They came in at a time Barcelona were hands down the best side in the World and set immediately in motion a plan to spend whatever it took to replicate that.
They clearly gave no shits about FFP and god knows what kind of outrageous deal Pep was offered to spend such a short time at Barça and Bayern, yet the massive bulk of his managerial career at City. I’m guessing it’s a deal similar to what Ronaldo is on in Saudi.
The most important person at City is Pep, just as it was with SAF, same goes for the scousers.
What City have done well is to ensure Pep is surrounded by his old friends and colleagues above him that follow the same Barça philosophy. Their set up is Barcelona 2008 and if you’ve got a bottomless pit of money and care not about FFP, you can have it too.
freeze him out if he doesn't want to leave. If he's ok with something normal as a payout 3-5m then flock him off with that loss in mind.
The head coach is with out a doubt very important but what you've described in your post is a football structure that is aligned with Guardiola's methods. Hence he wanted to work with Txiki Begiristain due to their time together at Barcelona. And Txiki is a football director who was given a role at Barcelona without any previous experience by Joan Laporta due to him being a former player. And on the two occasions Txiki has been appointed DoF, he joined clubs that had already built up football structures.
Whether it's at City, Liverpool or Brighton, the key to their success has been a football structure that is aligned with their head coach. It's not even data driven but rather it's a strategy that is driven by the eye test according to the people at the aforementioned clubs, via head scouts/heads of recruitment like Barry Hunter (Liverpool), Gary Worthington (City) etc. The media then for some strange reason spin things to make it sound like data plays a far bigger role than it actually does. With Michael Edwards (ex Liverpool) going on record and saying that they utilised data but their recruitment wasn't data driven.
So yes, a good head coach is important in that regard and Brighton under Tony Bloom is a good example of a club he bought in 2009 and their recruitment started to be widely noticed once they appointed Graham Potter in 2019. So the likes of Winstanley (head scout) started to be noticed because him and the Brighton recruitment department were now scouting players for a proactive attacking play style. And he'd been at Brighton since 2014. Potter also added his own scout (Kyle Macaulay) to the existing recruitment structure to align his methods with the recruitment structure to create a uniformed approach to signing players for his method of play. This wasn't happening under both Mourinho and Solskjaer from what I've read and the players we did sign were not conducive to a high tempo play style of the EPL which required both physical/athletic and technical qualities.
So I agree it's very important to have a capable head coach but it's just as important to have a football structure that is aligned with the methods of the head coach. And signing players for a proactive attacking approach where the focus is on looking to exert control in possession and controlling the defensive transition in large spaces is the key to success when it comes to recruitment imo. We have failed when it comes to recruitment but now it's upto Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells to prove that they can identify the correct profile of player for the way ten Hag wants to play. And imo, recruitment isn't difficult if the plan is to sign players who have the physical and athletic capabilities along with the technical qualities to help enhance the team in all phases of play.
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it’s over for this window
...barring a late change of mind by the Old Trafford hierarchy.
Hopium to the max
Qatar can swoop in with the payoff assist in January when Slabby panicks about his playing time ahead of the World Cup
Seems like a poker game between all three parties at the moment.
I wonder if the injury to Luke Shaw and Varane has changed things a bit? Very short on experience at the back now.
Yeah Maguire is probably thinking that he’s no longer far off playing now as well
I’d say that there’s truth in that
need to get the band back together now, resign DDG and okay him with Maguire/Lindelof
let the good times rollAny clubs with a surplus of top class defenders (quicker than Maguire) who might consider lending us one for a fee and wages covered? Otherwise I guess the Varane and Shaw injuries (Shaw being lcb cover too) have put paid to this...
I still think we should be prepared to take some short-term risk here for the sake of clearing the decks -and generating cash to cover problem areas in CM and possibly for a CF loan/speculative punt on a Orban type to alternate with RH, but club obviously don't seem willing to take strategic risks in this regard...
I’d say that there’s truth in that
need to get the band back together now, resign DDG and okay him with Maguire/Lindelof
Why stop there, bring Ole back too!
I can't decide if Onana will help Maguire or expose him even more?
Agree, although have to say the difference between City and United they don’t seem to buy players with such limited ceiling, which ultimately become dross. They also don’t have a revolving door of managers which make previous buys expendable when new managers come in.
United has spent plenty, just hasn’t allocated those resources accordingly. Almost seems as though the whole top of the organization is clueless on how to build a squad, and what managers to bring in to develop or build off said squad. Just no identity from the top down.
Oh well Harry you can rot like Phil Jones. Hopefully we finally get our new hours and get a new CB next season whilst still refusing to give him his full pay off.
What the hell is the club doing here? If he wanted a pay off to go to West Ham, pay it.
Now we are stuck with him for at least another year, with his value decreasing by the day and still paying his salary.
How do we benefit from having him in the squad? He will only be used for early round cup games and late sub appearances. I would much rather have Evans playing that role. At least he wont be mocked by fans, both United or opponents.
Now we are stuck with him for at least another year, with his value decreasing by the day and still paying his salary.
How do we benefit from having him in the squad? He will only be used for early round cup games and late sub appearances. I would much rather have Evans playing that role. At least he wont be mocked by fans, both United or opponents.
Chelsea were on the hunt for him apparently last season when they were buying everything that moved.
Like a new signing