Maguire | he stays!

VP89 said:
If they came to the table last week they are interested.

He covered himself with "as it stands"
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Tbf the table could’ve been a text message conversation of ‘hi West Ham do you still want Maguire pal?’ to which they could’ve replied saying no.
 
Champ said:
By all accounts Maguire wants to fight for his place back at United, which is commendable and should be encouraged in my eyes.
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Many here would rather just give up playing for United without a fight, and take a massive pay cut in the process.
 
Champ said:
By all accounts Maguire wants to fight for his place back at United, which is commendable and should be encouraged in my eyes.
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Does he actually though? All his interviews come across like he thinks he should be in the team rather than thinking he needs to improve to get in the team. One thing I will say about him though, he's very rarely injured which was something we'd struggled with for years in our centre halves. Consistency and fitness are important, they're just not enough to let you play at the top level, you need talent and hard graft on top.
 
Adnan said:
There's a big difference between the head of development and the head scout. The head of development is basically the DoF and Murtough was the DoF at youth level and he put in place the recruitment structure at youth level where he appointed David Harrison as the head of youth scouting to oversee the recruitment at youth level. Harrison was at Man City previously and his role as the head of scouting at youth level is very different to the role of the person who is the head of performance, which is another title which describes a football director, DoF, head of football etc.

And when he was promoted to the first team he was operating within a structure put in place by Ed Woodward who had Bout & Lawlor directing the recruitment with the manager also operating with his own people when it came to recruitment. So my argument always was that you had to allow him to restructure the recruitment structure at first team level and appoint his own people or you'll be judging him on the work of a manager and head scouts put in place by someone else. But most on here don't have a clue about how a recruitment structure functions and hilariously think that a DoF just goes about signing players on his own whim.

Little clubs like Hoffenheim and RB Leipzig operate differently to United but have the advantage of being financially doped up by billionaire owners who have put vast amounts of money into the aforementioned clubs to make them relevant. It's much easier to be a DoF under the RedBull ownership compared to United due to how wealthy the RedBull ownership is compared to the Glazers and the lower expectations that come with a club like RB Leipzig who have struggled to top Dortmund consistently, nevermind Bayern. It's not difficult to be a DoF at the RedBull clubs because the ownership has provided the conditions for the football people to thrive. And how they've done that is by owning 6 other clubs not named Leipzig and Salzburg which gives their scouts a greater scope to stock-pile talent in almost every continent in the world.


Paul Mitchell was a head scout who was given the role of DoF at Monaco and he did a below par job. He almost got fired in his first season and in his second season Monaco finished 6th and didn't even come close to making the champion's league.

I will support any DoF who is given the gig at United. But the DoF role isn't as straight forward as most of you guys think. A club can appoint me to oversee recruitment and I would bring in the young exciting players but would fans show the patience required for those young players to develop like what happens at the Red Bull clubs or Brighton who have a strategy that doesn't necessarily involve winning trophies but rather their aim is to develop and sell players for a profit whilst developing a proactive attacking play style? I don't think you would and in the current EPL where nation states and wealth funds are breaking FFP rules with impunity, it's sensible to re-evaluate your expectations under a ownership that doesn't want to win but wants to instead extract dividends and make a profit on their asset.
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Great post.

To me United should look at the best team around with transfers - City. Copy everything they are doing. But I think we as fans also have not matured enough and dont trust ETH fully yet. Pep can bench KDB, send Cancelo on loan etc because he has built trust and results keep on coming. If ETH drops Bruno and sends Shaw on loan, how are we going to react as fans and the teams results?
 
AbusementPark said:
Would the pay off be negated if he left on loan with an obligation to buy? Would maybe make the payoff less as he has one less season on his contract.
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I don't think so, in all likelihood United would pay the wage difference while on loan because he is technically an United player still in the same contract.

Maybe there's some other accounting of financial advantages to a loan with obligation to buy (we don't know if that was proposed here, to be clear), because we see a handful of those that really are permanent transfers on a delay (Ekitike and Ramos to PSG, Raya at Arsenal). I've seen some claim it doesn't fool FFP norms but the book juggling maybe has other uses.
 
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mu4c_20le said:
No one is trying to sway you. Why did Mourinho get fired again? Tell me the right answer.
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If you’re not trying to sway me - why have you engaged and tried to convince me otherwise and projected a bunch of nonsense onto me after I simply said “I disagree” regarding Maguire? I mean, the posts are all here.

And what does Mourinho have anything to do with my opinion on Maguire? You’re the one veering off about Mourinho - trying to rewrite him being fired into “walked off because we didn’t sign Maguire”. If you want an answer regarding Mourinho read below

Oranges038 said:
Not exactly true, he was sacked because the results were shit, the football was shit and the players clearly didn't like him.
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^that aligns closer to what happened, but that’s not a conversation I was having or interested in - you went there by yourself.
 
AbusementPark said:
Would the pay off be negated if he left on loan with an obligation to buy? Would maybe make the payoff less as he has one less season on his contract.
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If West Ham said £30mil but we loan for a year first then it would mean the pay out would be smaller at the end of the loan (less time remaining on contract) and also that the FFP amount to break even would also be lower (same reason).

But it wouldn't look great on this year's books and might be cutting it a bit fine, we can probably get everyone we want (Todibo, Amrabat, Gravenberch loan + 2nd keeper) with the sales of McTominay and Henderson and then this can be a bonus for next season.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
For millions of people a 10% pay cut would mean the difference between being able to pay their rent and not, or being able to eat more than beans on toast every day.
For those with good careers and a good wage it's really not uncommon to take a pay cut and to move to a place of work that makes them happier. I know this because I took less pay to move from a shitty Manchester City center to work in an office located in a quiet little village in Chester, and I'm not the only one.
If Maguire would rather sit on his arse doing nothing for the sake of an extra few million, it says a lot about him as a person
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And moving to West Ham from Man Utd for lesser pay is supposed to make him happier?

This is basically De Jong’s saga last year. Player is being pushed out the club and he’s told he must give up money to join a club he prefers not to join.

We clowned Barce for being a shit club and yet now we’re doing it, it’s Maguire being a prick. fecking hell people.
 
This is simply on the Glazers. We can’t pay Maguire off without there sign off.
 
seems like the biggest stumbling block is the buyout money that we would have to pay of his contract in order to sell him to West Ham....which honestly i don't get why we would have to buy him out of his contract if we sell him
 
elmo said:
And moving to West Ham from Man Utd for lesser pay is supposed to make him happier?

This is basically De Jong’s saga last year. Player is being pushed out the club and he’s told he must give up money to join a club he prefers not to join.

We clowned Barce for being a shit club and yet now we’re doing it, it’s Maguire being a prick. fecking hell people.
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Completely different circumstance. Maguire at no time has taken a pay cut to help out the club In this instance he is putting money first. Which is his prerogative and right. However unlike Frankie Harry would rather sit on the bench for 2 years than move and play regular thus protect his England career etc. My understanding is Harry wants more money to move than he would otherwise earn by staying. He feels he has United over a barrel but let’s see who blinks first.
 
bosskeano said:
seems like the biggest stumbling block is the buyout money that we would have to pay of his contract in order to sell him to West Ham....which honestly i don't get why we would have to buy him out of his contract if we sell him
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He cant get the wage package elsewhere he's on at United. I imagine he is holding out for the revenue lost by signing at West Ham. And that's his right, although it probably means torpedoing his career.
 
TsuWave said:
If you’re not trying to sway me - why have you engaged and tried to convince me otherwise and projected a bunch of nonsense onto me after I simply said “I disagree” regarding Maguire? I mean, the posts are all here.

And what does Mourinho have anything to do with my opinion on Maguire? You’re the one veering off about Mourinho - trying to rewrite him being fired into “walked off because we didn’t sign Maguire”. If you want an answer regarding Mourinho read below



^that aligns closer to what happened, but that’s not a conversation I was having or interested in - you went there by yourself.
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Wow so defensive. This doesn't have to be weird, if you didn't treat it like a battle.

Mourinho has everything to do with Maguire, because for some weird reason you are doing everything you can to avoid admitting that he wanted him back in 2018 for his ball playing ability. That many professionals rated him back then. I don't know why you avoid these facts like a person with rabies avoids water. Do you think it makes your point weaker?
 
kopviolator said:
He cant get the wage package elsewhere he's on at United. I imagine he is holding out for the revenue lost by signing at West Ham. And that's his right, although it probably means torpedoing his career.
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ah yeah...didn't consider the wage packet difference. Man you'd think money wouldn't be the over riding issue and wanting to play out his last couple seasons on the pitch. He's already made plenty of money and should be set for life.
 
bosskeano said:
ah yeah...didn't consider the wage packet difference. Man you'd think money wouldn't be the over riding issue and wanting to play out his last couple seasons on the pitch. He's already made plenty of money and should be set for life.
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He may come to regret this but the fact seems to be that the club needs to overpay mediocre to decent players to come to the club or even stay at the club. And the structure to shift players isn't in place. When Lindard was given 100k/week it opened my eyes what a mess we're in when it comes to our wage structure. But I think the club is trying to turn a corner here. Which is maybe why we're not signing top drawer players.
 
kopviolator said:
And that's his right, although it probably means torpedoing his career.
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He's only 30. He could easily have half a decade left as a top level player (including an international career).

Just saying. I'm not judging him: if he, himself, is actually blocking a move due to purely financial reasons, then fair enough: that is his right. He has a contract.

From a football perspective, it makes no sense, though. He is not fancied by ETH, that is obvious. Whereas Moyes apparently does fancy him (it wouldn't be outlandish to suggest that he'd be a default starter at West Ham).
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He's only 30. He could easily have half a decade left as a top level player (including an international career).

Just saying. I'm not judging him: if he, himself, is actually blocking a move due to purely financial reasons, then fair enough: that is his right. He has a contract.

From a football perspective, it makes no sense, though. He is not fancied by ETH, that is obvious. Whereas Moyes apparently does fancy him (it wouldn't be outlandish to suggest that he'd be a default starter at West Ham).
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I think we're in complete agreement on this. Add to it that his England career is almost certainly over if he doesn't move. I cant imagine him in the squad if he's frozen out under ETH.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Wow so defensive. This doesn't have to be weird, if you didn't treat it like a battle.

Mourinho has everything to do with Maguire, because for some weird reason you are doing everything you can to avoid admitting that he wanted him back in 2018 for his ball playing ability. That many professionals rated him back then. I don't know why you avoid these facts like a person with rabies avoids water. Do you think it makes your point weaker?
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You're yet to answer - why have you engaged and tried to convince me otherwise after I simply said “I disagree” regarding Maguire? I honestly don't even know what you're on about anymore

My question - "what does Mourinho have to do with my opinion on Maguire?"
Your answer - "Mourinho has everything to do with Maguire"

OK, but what does that have to do with my opinion on Maguire? Why are you talking about Mourinho? What are you doing?

This is simple - I said I want Maguire sold rather than loaned and disagreed with someone else that said they thought he was good x amount of years ago, because well, I never thought he was good. Ever since you've been angling and going on weird non-applicable tangents - and doing all these appeals for corroboration - but you're totally not trying to sway me, right? Is this how you converse in real life? So odd.
 
This is so fecking strange. An England No.1 CB willing to sit on the bench rather than playing first team football at a decent PL club for his England career.

Is money so important to already a super rich player and I'm sure he will get a very decent salary in West Ham albeit may not be as good as Man Utd?
 
I suspect Harry is just holding out until the very last possible moment to pick up that last mega-paycheck from United before agreeing to lesser terms for West Ham.
 
Has transfer deadline day deal written all over it for me. West ham favourite but maybe an Everton or even Chelsea
 
Yakuza_devils said:
This is so fecking strange. An England No.1 CB willing to sit on the bench rather than playing first team football at a decent PL club for his England career.

Is money so important to already a super rich player and I'm sure he will get a very decent salary in West Ham albeit may not be as good as Man Utd?
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Every player in our squad is super rich. I doubt the likes of Varane or Sancho would willingly take a paycut for the love of the game.

Also, Maguire is nowhere near "super rich" compared to some of his teammates. He was at Hull and Leicester until the age of 26. It's only been 4 years that he's been earning big money, and once his career ends in a couple more years he'll never earn it again.

There's a reason why so many other footballers decide to get one final big paycheck in the MLS or Saudi Arabia.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He's only 30. He could easily have half a decade left as a top level player (including an international career).

Just saying. I'm not judging him: if he, himself, is actually blocking a move due to purely financial reasons, then fair enough: that is his right. He has a contract.

From a football perspective, it makes no sense, though. He is not fancied by ETH, that is obvious. Whereas Moyes apparently does fancy him (it wouldn't be outlandish to suggest that he'd be a default starter at West Ham).
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It's just as much Manchester United as Maguire blocking the move. Both want more money out of the transfer.
 
TsuWave said:
You're yet to answer - why have you engaged and tried to convince me otherwise after I simply said “I disagree” regarding Maguire? I honestly don't even know what you're on about anymore

My question - "what does Mourinho have to do with my opinion on Maguire?"
Your answer - "Mourinho has everything to do with Maguire"

OK, but what does that have to do with my opinion on Maguire? Why are you talking about Mourinho? What are you doing?

This is simple - I said I want Maguire sold rather than loaned and disagreed with someone else that said they thought he was good x amount of years ago, because well, I never thought he was good. Ever since you've been angling and going on weird non-applicable tangents - and doing all these appeals for corroboration - but you're totally not trying to sway me, right? Is this how you converse in real life? So odd.
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I was just pointing out that he was rated back then. Your opinion is your opinion, I'm not even saying it's wrong. Just that no one could have seen him drop this low, or go fight the fecking police on some greek island after a solid debut season. At a pub or a restaurant, this would've been a quick exchange, with no swaying or convincing.
 
Devil You Know said:
Every player in our squad is super rich. I doubt the likes of Varane or Sancho would willingly take a paycut for the love of the game.

Also, Maguire is nowhere near "super rich" compared to some of his teammates. He was at Hull and Leicester until the age of 26. It's only been 4 years that he's been earning big money, and once his career ends in a couple more years he'll never earn it again.

There's a reason why so many other footballers decide to get one final big paycheck in the MLS or Saudi Arabia.
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It's not about the love of the game. It's about the player himself. achieving something in what is a very short career. A player will surely regret if once retired he looks back and realises he needlessly spent years of his career sat on a bench not playing. It's a real waste.

He is super rich. He's a multi millionaire and could have four or five more years earning huge money.
 
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