Maguire | he stays!

Manncunian said:
You can have the all nuanced debate in the world on this, but the simple fact is: the guy’s a prick.
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why because he wants the money the club offered to him in a contract?

I want him gone from a football point of view but calling him a prick because he wont walk away from million of pounds is ludicrous. He should forget about millions because the current manager doesn't want to play him? Have a day off.

Zero of any of us would leave a job if we were entitled to stay and get a massive payout.
 
considering how maguire acted last season where even though he was hardly getting gametime he had to get the captains armband, and how he acted during the trophy lifting in a cup competition he hardly played in just reinforced my opinion this guy is either incredibly naive or completely full of himself.
 
Enigma_87 said:
So it's right to get the full payment in advance for a contract you haven't served and you go on and play for another employer who also pays you on top of the lump sum you just got?

He continuously underperforms and frankly currently sucks at the position he was hired for, naturally there will be anger coming from the "clients" of United as they are also paying for their support. Pretty natural isn't it?

Based on reports he is willing to go to another club if he's paid, which is the irritating part. If he just want to be at United and collect that paycheck then come out and flat out reject the approach from WH.

This is also coming from someone who couple of months ago was our captain.

As I've said - if he wants to sit on a bench and not play much for two years to collect his pay check - it's ok as United was the idiots to sign him for that contract - I'm ok with that.

But I'm not ok to pay him two years in advance to go and play straight away for another club who will also pay him, that's the greedy part.
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He has a contract with you, you want to terminate said contract which is only possible with his blessing, he tells you his conditions. If the parties agree, they part ways, if not, the contract remains as it is. Nothing of what he does is wrong. He's not doing anything wrong as long as he fulfills his part of the deal - playing for Manchester United. You're just angry because of the situation and looking for a scapegoat.


Redlyn said:
Good to know that only YOUR opinion is valid. I don't even disagree with most of this post of yours. But that is not the point.
All the difference lies in the numbers and frankly none of us have it so we can only deal in hypotheticals.
I am defending his right to have a good compensation. But in the hypothetical situation where he gets his full future salary in advance before leaving is the exact definition of rinsing the club. Sorry you can't understand this.
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How could he rinse the club when the only leverage he has is seeing out the contract both parties signed? And where is the difference to a club that refuses to sell a player/asks for an unreasonably high sum when the contract isn't expiring anytime soon?
 
We as fans should just move on. The club on the other hand should do all they can to persuade Maguire to go behind the scenes. He was never accepted as a genuine captain and soon will not be accepted as a player. This is very tragic but true. He has been an outsider and remains so.
 
Zehner said:
He has a contract with you, you want to terminate said contract which is only possible with his blessing, he tells you his conditions. If the parties agree, they part ways, if not, the contract remains as it is. Nothing of what he does is wrong. He's not doing anything wrong as long as he fulfills his part of the deal - playing for Manchester United. You're just angry because of the situation and looking for a scapegoat.
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We don't want to terminate the contract. If we did, we wouldn't be having this conversation - a bit like sacking managers goes. We had an offer from another company interested in hiring him. We accepted the offer. We were looking for a new body to hire in the aforementioned player's place. The player received an offer for his personal terms and he didn't like it.

Then he wanted to receive the full amount of the remainder of his contract (he hasn't served that yet) in order to accept the other offer.

Let's see it from the company point of view:
1. You hire a promising employee to a X year contract.
2. He begins to underperform in his duties
3. You obviously want to bring in replacement
4. The employee is interested in parting ways depending on the financial offer (he hasn't flat out denied WH)
5. He wants you to pay him 1-2 years of his future earnings to start a job at a new employer who also will pay him during that time
6. If he continues to assume his position it costs you revenue and targets (Sevilla game for example)

What would you do if you are the employer?
 
CallyRed said:
15 million English pounds? He'd be wanting a controlling stake in the club next.
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£8m is the wage he'll get from West Ham. £7m is the difference between what he's currently getting and the shortfall Man Utd would need to make up.

United received an offer of £30m. If you subtract the £7m payoff, that means we'd get £23m if we accepted. If EtH wanted Maguire gone, he'd be gone.

Clearly, EtH feels Maguire is worth more than £23m to the club or else the move would have been sanctioned by now.

So maybe we should send Ten Hag to manage the reserves as punishment until he agrees to sell Maguire for the offer on the table. Or Something.
 
Marcus said:
We as fans should just move on. The club on the other hand should do all they can to persuade Maguire to go behind the scenes. He was never accepted as a genuine captain and soon will not be accepted as a player. This is very tragic but true. He has been an outsider and remains so.
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If it was that important to the club, we would have already accepted the £30m (minus £7m payoff) offer on the table from West Ham.
 
ETH has to tell him to feck off basically. Don't leave any fecking door open. Tell him it's either reserves football or he fecks off.
We need to be decisive with shit players
 
kouroux said:
ETH has to tell him to feck off basically. Don't leave any fecking door open. Tell him it's either reserves football or he fecks off.
We need to be decisive with shit players
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There's an offer from West Ham that we could have accepted.

We haven't told Maguire to f-off because we'd rather keep him than take the money.
 
He might need another season for his ego to accept that he isn’t winning his place back and that he’s not getting a move to one of top teams in the league.

The payoff is standard practice, Fred just have been given as no way his new club will be matching what he was on here.
 
Maguire is case in point of how a lot of fans are incapable of preventing their frustration at our poor squad management over the years from boiling over into borderline-obsessive personal hatred of players who are at the club as a result.

Obviously Maguire is the prime example because he was signed for massive money and given the captaincy despite not being up to standard at the time and having dropped off hugely since, but you can find examples in almost every player thread on the forum.

People will say it's about him being arrogant or whatever rather than him being shit, but we all know you wouldn't care how much of a dick he was if he was delivering on the pitch. Most of this forum loved Ronaldo for years after he left despite him being a much bigger dickhead than Maguire could ever hope to be. Hell, we know from recent events that a decent chunk of the forum will forgive or ignore almost any transgression if the player is talented enough.
 
Enigma_87 said:
We don't want to terminate the contract. If we did, we wouldn't be having this conversation - a bit like sacking managers goes. We had an offer from another company interested in hiring him. We accepted the offer. We were looking for a new body to hire in the aforementioned player's place. The player received an offer for his personal terms and he didn't like it.

Then he wanted to receive the full amount of the remainder of his contract (he hasn't served that yet) in order to accept the other offer.

Let's see it from the company point of view:
1. You hire a promising employee to a X year contract.
2. He begins to underperform in his duties
3. You obviously want to bring in replacement
4. The employee is interested in parting ways depending on the financial offer (he hasn't flat out denied WH)
5. He wants you to pay him 1-2 years of his future earnings to start a job at a new employer who also will pay him during that time
6. If he continues to assume his position it costs you revenue and targets (Sevilla game for example)

What would you do if you are the employer?
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This is the main part of this supposed transfer negotiations that I don't get. Maybe I am ignorant, but why is Maguire (supposedly) asking for payment for the rest of his contract when it is a transfer deal with huge fees (relatively), and it is not termination of contract so that West Ham won't have to pay United any kind of transfer fees.

Most probably this transfer didn't happen just because he didn't the personal terms with WHU basically.
 
kouroux said:
ETH has to tell him to feck off basically. Don't leave any fecking door open. Tell him it's either reserves football or he fecks off.
We need to be decisive with shit players
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He already has done, stripped of the captaincy, overlooked for the captaincy in the friendlies and instead had to watch McTomminay and Dalot captain the sides he was playing in, told that if he doesn't have the confidence to fight for his place he has to leave (publicly), United accepted a fairly low bid for him to leave and join West Ham.

I mean, if he can't see the signs of being told to feck off someone might want to get him tested for autism or something.
 
crossy1686 said:
He already has done, stripped of the captaincy, overlooked for the captaincy in the friendlies and instead had to watch McTomminay and Dalot captain the sides he was playing in, told that if he doesn't have the confidence to fight for his place he has to leave (publicly), United accepted a fairly low bid for him to leave and join West Ham.

I mean, if he can't see the signs of being told to feck off someone might want to get him tested for autism or something.
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He should not have been on bench and no squad number. No going back from that
 
Enigma_87 said:
We don't want to terminate the contract. If we did, we wouldn't be having this conversation - a bit like sacking managers goes. We had an offer from another company interested in hiring him. We accepted the offer. We were looking for a new body to hire in the aforementioned player's place. The player received an offer for his personal terms and he didn't like it.

Then he wanted to receive the full amount of the remainder of his contract (he hasn't served that yet) in order to accept the other offer.

Let's see it from the company point of view:
1. You hire a promising employee to a X year contract.
2. He begins to underperform in his duties
3. You obviously want to bring in replacement
4. The employee is interested in parting ways depending on the financial offer (he hasn't flat out denied WH)
5. He wants you to pay him 1-2 years of his future earnings to start a job at a new employer who also will pay him during that time
6. If he continues to assume his position it costs you revenue and targets (Sevilla game for example)

What would you do if you are the employer?
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What are you hinting at? I'm not criticizing that you want him to leave. The club is behaving perfectly fine. Like it or not, Maguire has a legally binding contract with you and if you want that business relation to end prematurely, he has to agree. He has the right to demand what he wants however outrageous that might be. Because again: His only leverage in these negotiations is that he'll fulfill what you and him agreed on when that contract was signed a few years ago. When Rashford performs like he did last season again and Madrid comes calling but you want them to pay 200m or feck off because you want to keep him, is that ammoral, too, since you demand more than what's reasonable?

Maybe Maguire likes it in Manchester? Maybe a premature departure would cause indirect costs to him, possibly because he would have to sell real estate? Or maybe his family doesn't want to leave? There are dozens of factors that could drive his price up. As said: He has every right to demand what he wants. Blame yourself for handing out contracts like these to mediocre players.
 
NotQuiteManc said:
This is the main part of this supposed transfer negotiations that I don't get. Maybe I am ignorant, but why is Maguire (supposedly) asking for payment for the rest of his contract when it is a transfer deal with huge fees (relatively), and it is not termination of contract so that West Ham won't have to pay United any kind of transfer fees.

Most probably this transfer didn't happen just because he didn't the personal terms with WHU basically.
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He has agreed personal terms with West Ham.

Man United would be on the hook for £15m worth of wages if Maguire saw out the rest of his contract. We could reduce that to only £7m if we accepted West Ham's bid and Maguire's contract termination proposal. That £7m would come out of West Ham's £30m bid, leaving us with £23m net.
 
Gordon Godot said:
He should not have been on bench and no squad number. No going back from that
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I agree but that reduces his value to £0 and we need a fee to replace him so we have to pretend he's got a future or that there's a way back for him.

I'm confident he'll leave before the end of the window. West Ham will be back.
 
Enigma_87 said:
We don't want to terminate the contract. If we did, we wouldn't be having this conversation - a bit like sacking managers goes. We had an offer from another company interested in hiring him. We accepted the offer. We were looking for a new body to hire in the aforementioned player's place. The player received an offer for his personal terms and he didn't like it.

Then he wanted to receive the full amount of the remainder of his contract (he hasn't served that yet) in order to accept the other offer.

Let's see it from the company point of view:
1. You hire a promising employee to a X year contract.
2. He begins to underperform in his duties
3. You obviously want to bring in replacement
4. The employee is interested in parting ways depending on the financial offer (he hasn't flat out denied WH)
5. He wants you to pay him 1-2 years of his future earnings to start a job at a new employer who also will pay him during that time
6. If he continues to assume his position it costs you revenue and targets (Sevilla game for example)

What would you do if you are the employer?
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Face the consequences of agreeing to the contract in the first place, negotiate a deal to get out of it. Simple.
 
NotQuiteManc said:
This is the main part of this supposed transfer negotiations that I don't get. Maybe I am ignorant, but why is Maguire (supposedly) asking for payment for the rest of his contract when it is a transfer deal with huge fees (relatively), and it is not termination of contract so that West Ham won't have to pay United any kind of transfer fees.

Most probably this transfer didn't happen just because he didn't the personal terms with WHU basically.
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If we terminate the contract and we pay him a severance package it's basically write off in the books, which is bad for us in every way. We can't even amortize the salary in this way, so that's a non starter. Rather pay him to sit at home.

He got an offer from WH which does not compete with what is currently on the table each week. If we accept the fee agreed with WH and then again pay him the severance package it doesn't make sense again on the books.

Maguire knows that and ideally he'd rather play every week but also receive as much money as he can get. He's exploiting the situation and considering United are growing desperate - the window is closing, we need a replacement if we don't sell him this year his value diminishes, he's trying to get as much buck as he can get.

If he succeeds with the plan he gets 2 years salary in advance and on top of that he will be earning a brand new 100k (most likely 3-4 years contract).
 
Zehner said:
What are you hinting at? I'm not criticizing that you want him to leave. The club is behaving perfectly fine. Like it or not, Maguire has a legally binding contract with you and if you want that business relation to end prematurely, he has to agree. He has the right to demand what he wants however outrageous that might be. Because again: His only leverage in these negotiations is that he'll fulfill what you and him agreed on when that contract was signed a few years ago. When Rashford performs like he did last season again and Madrid comes calling but you want them to pay 200m or feck off because you want to keep him, is that ammoral, too, since you demand more than what's reasonable?

Maybe Maguire likes it in Manchester? Maybe a premature departure would cause indirect costs to him, possibly because he would have to sell real estate? Or maybe his family doesn't want to leave? There are dozens of factors that could drive his price up. As said: He has every right to demand what he wants. Blame yourself for handing out contracts like these to mediocre players.
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As I said the issue I'm having is the balls to ask for severance package to leave and play for a new club. Yes personally it's what's best for him, but it's also greedy and narcissist thing to do to exploit the situation.

If Maguire is innocent in the situation most likely we wouldn't have dithered with West Ham for two weeks as he would have flatly denied the option to go there. Negotiating with the club to pay him to leave shows that he's interested in the said above.

Leftback99 said:
Face the consequences of agreeing to the contract in the first place, negotiate a deal to get out of it. Simple.
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Yep, it's basically what United are trying to do. That doesn't absolve Maguire of being greedy and trying to get as much buck from both sides as possible, though.

The irony in the situation is also that he was our most recent captain and the club also stood by him when he was underperforming and also after the incident in Greece they sided with him and, correct me if I'm wrong, even didn't fine or suspend him despite ending up in jail..
 
Ish said:
Surely not if either ourselves or WHU couldn't agree terms with Maguire?
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Signing a transfer contract forces an obligation onto the club. We wouldn't do so unless every facet of the transfer (including payoff) was complete.

Clearly, we received and accepted a verbal bid. But then pulled out before formalising.
 
Enigma_87 said:
He got an offer from WH which does not compete with what is currently on the table each week. If we accept the fee agreed with WH and then again pay him the severance package it doesn't make sense again on the books.
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Impact on this year's accounts from accepting WHU's offer:

+30m transfer fee
+10m wage savings
-26m asset writedown
-7m one-time payoff

= 7m net savings on the books

(update: this isn't entirely accurate, please reference my post on the next page instead)

Impact on next year's accounts would be an additional 10m savings (due to not having to pay his wages).

Overall, a net positive, but doesn't free up enough funds for a replacement. If we're not expecting him to play more than a handful of games for us, accepting the offer is the best option.
 
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hobbers said:
It wasn't just the money, he obviously sees West Ham as beneath him. They never agreed a deal and sounds like whatever talks there were on a contract didnt go anywhere.

I'm sure he's deluded enough to think he shouldn't be going backwards in his career. Would probably only accept a transfer that paid him more which in his case could only ever come from Saudi.
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He agreed personal terms with West Ham, so obviously he doesn't see West Ham as beneath him.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Impact on this year's accounts from accepting WHU's offer:

+30m transfer fee
+10m wage savings
-26m asset writedown
-7m one-time payoff

= 7m net savings on the books

Impact on next year's accounts would be an additional 10m savings (due to not having to pay his wages).

Overall, a net positive, but doesn't free up enough funds for a replacement. If we're not expecting him to play more than a handful of games for us, accepting the offer is the best option.
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Where do you get 26m asset carrying value from? £80m over 5 years with 2 years left is £32m
 
Eugenius said:
No offence but was it a 30 percent pay cut and are you in the last few years of your career? And did you have to uproot your family to take that new job? It's also not uncommon to stay in a job you don't like because it's paying to upkeep your lifestyle.
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Yes, one of them was a 30% pay cut because I wanted to work with the same person I'd worked with before and the project had a lot smaller budget. Hopefully I am not in the last years of my career, but neither is Maguire. He's got another 5 years in him, maybe more if he keeps sitting on the bench. feck his lifestyle, if that's the only reason he won't leave.
 
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