Just saw Care_de_bobo's post 
Madrid's deliberate red cards
- Thread starter Carl
- Start date
To get one player sent off for timewasting may be regarded as a misfortune, to get two sent off is beyond careless.
So it's acceptable then to dismiss the case if it's one player only, as it can't be proven beyond doubt, but if it's two then it's okay to punish further because such an event would be too unlikely?
And until there's a rule brought in to stop such actions it's only the law makers you can moan at.
UEFA have a rule which would allow them to increase the ban to take in the KO stage. They should use it.
Let's clear this up then, can you please explain exactly what actions you feel should be punishable under rule 10.
Exactly, it's impossible that two players can rightfully get sent off in a game...
Deliberately being booked to avoid the possibility of being suspended for the KO stage.
That's it? So if that's what it's there for why doesn't the rule specify that?
If you create that rule retrospectively then very few players will be able to play in the KO stage.
Wigan should get thrown out of the Premier League quite frankly.
You'd think one of them would have the wit to get a card for shirt pulling or deliberate handball.
The rule is more wide ranging but covers that just fine.
Risking of a backlash here Ramos did, he threw the ball into the crowd and the ref did nothing.
Which is why I asked you to explain what else if covers.
If a team kick the ball out of play because an opponent is down hurt and then the other team don't give it back when play resumes that's pretty unsporting. Ban them under rule 10.
Alonso did get a yellow for that. Threw the ball away after Albiol fouled Suarez just outside the box.
I'm talking about Ramos though...
It's a hole in the rules.
UEFA would be (more) hypocrites to punish this, how many times have they used this kind of holes? They shouldn't. You administrate the number of cards you get how you want, it's you the one who will miss a game. It's like making a foul in the middle of the pitch on a counter-attack when your team is under threat because of the positioning, it's an automatic yellow which you are deciding to take, same case here.
UEFA would be (more) hypocrites to punish this, how many times have they used this kind of holes? They shouldn't. You administrate the number of cards you get how you want, it's you the one who will miss a game. It's like making a foul in the middle of the pitch on a counter-attack when your team is under threat because of the positioning, it's an automatic yellow which you are deciding to take, same case here.
We could debate a lot of what-ifs but the concrete situation we're talking about here is clearly is covered and punishable.
So are about a million other stupid little things which go on every week, which is my point.
If everyone got their knickers in a twist over a team not returning the ball in the scenario I outlined above would you support banning the players who carried on?
What about what MUFC07 said above, if a player knowingly brings down an attacker on the break and accepts a yellow card for doing so, should he be given an extra match ban because he's intentionally got booked?
What about the quick freekicks we've seen taken over the years by Henry, Giggs etc, they're not very sporting, should they have been banned under rule 10?
Some are some aren't, I can't be arsed to get into a pissing contest about them. This one is, however, the issue on the table and UEFA have the means but probably not the bottle to sort it.
So you want to jump to a knee jerk overreaction and punish players for breaking some phantom rule you've just made up without a thought for the long term consequences?
Ok, just so we understand your position.
Ok, just so we understand your position.
Read:
The point isn't it's covered because it's there, it's how do you identify what is unsporting, and what does unsporting constitute entirely, and then where would you draw the line between sporting and unsporting?
What about:
Not giving the ball back after a while, holding onto the ball, getting sent off deliberately, kicking the ball away from an opponent. Pretending to shake their hands and then pulling it away. Spitting in someones direction? Quick free kicks, deliberate fouls?
Possibly there are other issues which could and should be prosecuted. The point remains this cynical piece of gamesmanship should be collared.
Well, then, you want a new rule as opposed to retroactive punishment.
Aye, it's a case of the ends justifying the means.
They blatantly exploited a loop-hole, simultaneously taking the piss out of their opponents and the referee. I mean, just look at the pictures of Mourinho passing the message via Dudek above. Even the cnuts at Real Madrid knew what they were doing wasn't entirely above board!
If there are provisions in place to punish people for taking the piss like that, they should be used. They almost certainly won't though. This is UEFA we're talking about.
I've got the rule thanks. You have to do it retroactively since the ref can't be expected to legislate in the middle of a game.
Why didn't they go for another and have Ramos & Alonso take off their shirts during the celebration to get booked?!
How do you tell anything is deliberate? It comes down interpretation - it's for the authorities to interpret these situations.
Anyone could see that Alonso and Ramos were blatantly taking the piss - desperately unfair to the Ajax players who were on the wrong end of a humiliating 4-0 scoreline at the time and wanted to get back into the game.
That's what I was saying before, they should've both taken their shirts off after the 4th goal, chest bumped and celebrated with the crowd.
Never play again.
What's that supposed to prove? Because of one random event 6 or 7 years ago involving two totally unrelated teams, it's OK for Mourinho to tell his players to go and disrespect their opponents in last night's match?
Complete nonsense.
The thing about that one is that Hamann, as was his wont ,had hacked a couple of our players just before. As he came across to do it again Pat took evasive action to avoid a smack across the shins - Hamann pulls out and he looks foolish.
If you noticed I quoted Pete, since Arsenal are involved it is related to the point those with sense are making, if you want to retroactively punish gamesmanship then you go back several years, not just one day. Of which this is much worse than Real btw, who were punished at the time.
They should have a caf black spot for unsporting cnuts (with Cal blacked out entirely). And a gold star for us fair-play chaps.
That's the real problem isn't it. Fair enough if they choose to get booked at this stage rather than later, but to make such a poor job of disguising that they're manipulating the system does leave them open to repercussions from UEFA.
No that I approve of the point he was making with that gif but Vieira didn't take any evasive action what so ever. Evasive action would be to jump. Had Hamann went through with his kick he would have kicked Vieira.
Real evasive. It's good that he changed his face to simulate pain and crumples to the ground, just in case that challenge ever came. Because that's how players evade challenges, by falling to the ground with their legs buckling underneath them. feck knows what would happen if he saw a car coming at him.
Hamanns actually pulled out and shouted 'Twat' before Pat's even gone down.
The Vieira clip is a complete red herring in any case.