All circumsatancial, they might have been voting on what to have to eat post match, it can't be proved otherwise.
Madrid's deliberate red cards
- Thread starter Carl
- Start date
All circumsatancial, they might have been voting on what to have to eat post match, it can't be proved otherwise.
How many more times are people going to talk about UEFA having to prove anything?
They just need to decide that - on the balance of propabilities - it's likely the second yellow cards were deliberate.
In other words, which scenario is more likely?
A) they got sent off deliberately to avoid carrying a yellow card through to the next round
B) they risked being sent off just to waste a few seconds when they were already 4 nil up and 5 minutes left to go?
Nobody got killed ffs. This isn't a murder trial. This has been explained about a dozen frigging times already. Surely the penny has dropped by now?
Tempted to add a few more things to that list of young sins.
Then Real simply appeal, if this goes as high as the COAFS then UEFA simply cannot possibly win.
Arsene weighing in:
Precent for UEFA Punishment:
So UEFA clearly view it was 'wrong', and in the past fined a couple of players for it, though they did openly admit to their crime.
Precent for UEFA Punishment:
So UEFA clearly view it was 'wrong', and in the past fined a couple of players for it, though they did openly admit to their crime.
Just like we played reserved for our nothing game - against the spirit of the game
Just as Wolves throwing reserves at us - against the spirit of the game
Liverpool half wantingly to lose to Chelsea to spite us - against the spirit of the game
Ronaldo diving - against the spirit of the game
Keane / Cantona - against the spirit of the game
comon guys, I know the wagon hates Jose and RM, but it really is nothing new if you're claiming it's against the spirit of the game
Just as Wolves throwing reserves at us - against the spirit of the game
Liverpool half wantingly to lose to Chelsea to spite us - against the spirit of the game
Ronaldo diving - against the spirit of the game
Keane / Cantona - against the spirit of the game
comon guys, I know the wagon hates Jose and RM, but it really is nothing new if you're claiming it's against the spirit of the game
Does the fact it's 'nothing new' mean it should go unpunished?
Didn't Wolves get fined for playing their reserves against us anyway?
Should we be punished as well?
Sadly, the rules are clear for everyone, it's the same rule for all. RM had the luxury of qualifying top with 1 games to spare so they can take advantage of it, I'm sure we would at least field reserves if we're thru top with 1 game to spare irregardless of whether the result will effect who's being the runner up, specially with important games coming in after.
In an ideal world, it's against the spirit of the game but that's all, it's not actually an infringement, just ungentlement like, and as much as we want to we're not living in an ideal world, because if this time Madrid's punishable then god knows what accusation people can come up the next time somebody get a yellow in similar situation.
The problem is, you can't set precedence on something that's bordering on the gray area, it'll only raise controversy in the future.
The best thing they can do is restructure the whole yellow / red card system and the suspension that follows.
So, assuming SAF's happy with qualifying and doesn't care about 1st or 2nd, we throw a reserve team against Valencia due to important game coming afterwards... do you think we should get a fine as well?
Assuming at the 38th game of the season, We're down by 1 point and Chelsea are against Sunderland who's fixed on the 7th spot win / lose, can we blame them for fielding their youngster so that they can get experience and throwing the game?
The permutation is endless, and unless the Football authorities are the mighty god Himself there will always be controversy. Rules are rules, if we leave it for interpretation beyond necessary it'll bound to be ahstray
Edit : We're still debating to what lenght does "arm" constitute of in handsball, do you think we'll be having an unanimous decision on intent?
Rule E20 of the Premier League Rules states "In every League match, each participating club will field a full strength team."
I'm not sure of the rules with regards to the Champions League, but I'm going to presume it's the same, so yes, if we were fined, I'd have no arguments. I wouldn't expect us to be fined, but I couldn't complain if we were.
That said, Wolves were fined because by breaching rule E20, they also breached rule B13, which in the example you suggested above wouldn't really apply since both teams have already qualified and so United fielding a weakened side has no effect on other teams in the group.
Rule 13: In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with the utmost good faith.
I'm not sure of the rules with regards to the Champions League, but I'm going to presume it's the same, so yes, if we were fined, I'd have no arguments. I wouldn't expect us to be fined, but I couldn't complain if we were.
That said, Wolves were fined because by breaching rule E20, they also breached rule B13, which in the example you suggested above wouldn't really apply since both teams have already qualified and so United fielding a weakened side has no effect on other teams in the group.
Rule 13: In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with the utmost good faith.
That's the case then John O'Shea will never play because we have better player on every department, there will be no rotation because "full strenght team" means we have to play Rooney whenever he's not in casts, and so on and so forth.
I'm sure you get my point that there will be countless occasion where 1 game means more to one team than the other, surely you can't expect us to field all our first teamer when we have it wrapped up? Just in this case both Valencia and us are already thru and pitting against each other in the last game so no harm done, but what if Ranger still got slim chance needing us to beat Valencia and we're throwing reserves in there?
Perhaps we didn't bother about the fine either, but where does this ends? Teams have been measuring their opponent and field teams accordingly, so if we put this rule in it's purest we'll have to fine every teams playing, and even then they'll have to decide which is our strongest team, berbatov? or Hernandez?
You got my point right?
I do get your point, hence me saying that I wouldn't expect us to get fined.
But were we to be fined for say making ten changes, like we did at home to Rangers with a view to playing Liverpool a few days later then I couldn't complain because technically it's in the laws of the game.
But were we to be fined for say making ten changes, like we did at home to Rangers with a view to playing Liverpool a few days later then I couldn't complain because technically it's in the laws of the game.
fixed
- those qualities that Steven Gerrard & Co have in abundancewhat part of advantaged played do you find difficult?
moving on.............
Agree, but where do the buck stops?
It could lead to another question, ok... 10 is a given, what about 9? 8? 7? 6? 5changes? until when does it constitute unsportsman?
Surely there's no definitive answer to what's a "full strength team". For all you know the usual first teamers could have a shit training session, and the youngsters were outplaying them.
Of course what Real did was fecking disgraceful. If SAF were to see any of his players getting a deliberate second yellow, he would have twisted his balls right there on the pitch
Ramos sent off in last minute, conspiracy.
Was that red card on purpose? 
They've been fined
Mourinho 40.000 euros + 1 game ban
Xabi Alonso y Ramos 40.000 euros each
Casillas 10.000 euros
Dudek 5.000
The club 120k
Mourinho 40.000 euros + 1 game ban
Xabi Alonso y Ramos 40.000 euros each
Casillas 10.000 euros
Dudek 5.000
The club 120k
I wonder how their wallets will ever recover.
What's the point of these financial punishments ? There is a bigger problem to focus on than handing out this stuff.UEFA will take money by whatever means necessary and totally forget the bigger issues.
How did they establish Dudek's role ? From the pictures and something else was used ?
How did they establish Dudek's role
? From the pictures and something else was used ?fecking wankers UEFA. It will serve them right if teams now continuously do this.
Would it be worth teams paying 200k worth of fines and their manager missing a meaningless game in exchange for a clean yellow card slate? Yes. Should they do this then UEFA can't really do much other than fine them. Idiots.
It's symptomatic of some of the problems within football - ie. the leading organisations such as UEFA and FIFA. They are run by fecking idiots - people say the scourge of modern football is diving etc, it's nothing in comparison to the hypocrisy and idiocy of those who rule the game who can't see black from white and just cover everything in brown.
At the very least they should make a statement saying if a team does this again they will be thrown out of the competition - and none of this, 'how would you prove it?' shit, it's like having a group of people in a room and someone farting and then claiming they didn't; the smell comes from them.
Would it be worth teams paying 200k worth of fines and their manager missing a meaningless game in exchange for a clean yellow card slate? Yes. Should they do this then UEFA can't really do much other than fine them. Idiots.
It's symptomatic of some of the problems within football - ie. the leading organisations such as UEFA and FIFA. They are run by fecking idiots - people say the scourge of modern football is diving etc, it's nothing in comparison to the hypocrisy and idiocy of those who rule the game who can't see black from white and just cover everything in brown.
At the very least they should make a statement saying if a team does this again they will be thrown out of the competition - and none of this, 'how would you prove it?' shit, it's like having a group of people in a room and someone farting and then claiming they didn't; the smell comes from them.
Bullshit.
Do you know how quickly uefa would get laughed out of court after Real appeal?
Banning Mourinho for 1 game, what's the purpose of it ?
I don't know, you tell us.
Maybe you can also tell us why they seem prepared to pay almost a hundred grand in fines if their appeal is such an open and shut case?
Saving money in court fees would be my guess.
Quality. Like see Mourinho do anything like this again.
To give him a night off when they play Auxerre?
The precedent here is that fines were deemed the appropriate punishment in past cases - so they got fined.
Of course, UEFA could take this as a chance to announce what'll happen to the next offenders - because it'll surely happen again. Better still they could do the logical thing - one game ban for the (second yellow) red but the first yellow still stands. Even better they could look at how not to ban players in the latter stages of their competitions, particularly ones that aren't charged with violence.
And Real would take UEFA to court? Over the issue of a two game suspension? If I were UEFA I'd fight them all the way - it's bollocks that a club would win in court against an organisation over the issue of a suspension of players following a match. UEFA would be quite within their right to find a player or club guilty of a breach of sportsmanship and give them a ban.
Did United take the FA to court over Cantona's suspension? I know it's not an exact parallel but it was still a suspension (and a massive one at that) for a situation that didn't have previous clear guidelines.
Even putting that to one side, as I said in my original comment, even if they just fined Madrid they should go to great lengths to stop this happening again, it's just ridiculous.
Nobody gets to take UEFA to court - FIFA rules makes that too painful - but if the punishment was deemed disproportionate, or against precedent (or exemplary if there's no prior warning) it could go to CAS and the chances are Madrid would win.
The match against Auxerre is pointless essentially. Don't think he'd be too bothered by it.
Isn't Sepp Blatter honorary president of Real? I think they'll get slaps on the wrists with some small fines.
But, I'm pretty sure they will issue a stern warning for future offenders...
True Genius by Mourinho though. This guy thinks of everything and pushes every boundary possible.
But, I'm pretty sure they will issue a stern warning for future offenders...
True Genius by Mourinho though. This guy thinks of everything and pushes every boundary possible.
quite, they won't though cos they are incompetent morons.
what a joke
Jose would pay for it on the house
edit- ok maybe not, but you get my point
Of the issue of your proposal of booting them out, and no one would think Madrid are bringing the game into disripute should it go as far as court, in fact it would quite clearly be uefa that would be found guilty of such a charge.
And if they gave an extended ban there's every chance Madrid would take it to the CAS, and absolutely maul uefa.
In my opinion UEFA should have given them two game suspensions and said that any team found guilty of doing this in future would be thrown out of the competition.
Obviously they couldn't throw Madrid out in this instance but there's no reason why they shouldn't look to completely stop teams trying the same thing in the future. If a team did it in future, and UEFA had stated any club doing this would be thrown out, then no team would do it. Problem solved.