Madrid's deliberate red cards

peter - if you insult another poster you are out of here.

It's one thing to consistently ignore repeated point after point, but another to go around insulting posters for a difference in opinion.

I don't need a response, just for you to realize this is your last chance.
 
R_Nick said:
No, Mourinho has shit all to do with the debate. If you want to argue the points in the debate then jump in but if you're just going to sit there calling everyone on one side of the argument 'fanbois' or other such childish crap then just give up.
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How does the manager of the team which had the two players sent off in quick succession just before the end of the game have 'shit all to do with the debate'?

He has everything to do with it as it fits in with so much we've seen from him during his time in the game.

I'm not quite sure either what justification you're using for having suddenly elevated yourself into a position where you can tell posters what belongs to a debate and what doesn't. Mourinho's role in this is clearly a legitimate part of this debate.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
How does the manager of the team which had the two players sent off in quick succession just before the end of the game have 'shit all to do with the debate'?

He has everything to do with it as it fits in with so much we've seen from him during his time in the game.

I'm not quite sure either what justification you're using for having suddenly elevated yourself into a position where you can tell posters what belongs to a debate and what doesn't. Mourinho's role in this is clearly a legitimate part of this debate.
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We're discussing the rules of the game, and whether two Real Madrid players should be punished further for having intentionally getting themselves booked.

If you can explain how Mourinho, in any way, has something to do with that debate - other than attempting to imply some kind of bias in posters on one side of the argument - then you will have a point. The fact is though, that you won't be able to do that, simply because he isn't directly involved.
 
R_Nick said:
No, Mourinho has shit all to do with the debate. If you want to argue the points in the debate then jump in but if you're just going to sit there calling everyone on one side of the argument 'fanbois' or other such childish crap then just give up.
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Look Mourinho is a clever chap, what he did yesterday was make a mockery of the rules of football. Now people can say the law is an ass but I really don't see it that way, it seems completely reasonable that players should be dissuaded from collecting lots of yellow cards, the only real way to do this is to give them match bans.

The system has worked absolutely fine and would continue to do so if those involved with the game respected the rules and the principles behind them. Unfortunately you've got a guy who has no respect for the rules or sportsmanship and he's happy to bring the game into disrepute if he can gain an inch from doing it. The scenes yesterday were embarrassing for football but what does he care as long as he has those players for important games, it stinks but some on here are holding their noses.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
How does the manager of the team which had the two players sent off in quick succession just before the end of the game have 'shit all to do with the debate'?

He has everything to do with it as it fits in with so much we've seen from him during his time in the game.

I'm not quite sure either what justification you're using for having suddenly elevated yourself into a position where you can tell posters what belongs to a debate and what doesn't. Mourinho's role in this is clearly a legitimate part of this debate.
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You'll have to forgive him. R Nick is in a stubborn, patronising, but flawed state of mind. He's somehow convinced himself that instinctive, professional foul play is on a par with systematic cheating and flagrant abuses of the concept of fair play and the code of professionalism. The rod is set, the juicy bait attached, I cast my line into the water, and await my bite...
 
evra said:
Look Mourinho is a clever chap, what he did yesterday was make a mockery of the rules of football. Now people can say the law is an ass but I really don't see it that way, it seems completely reasonable that players should be dissuaded from collecting lots of yellow cards, the only real way to do this is to give them match bans.

The system has worked absolutely fine and would continue to do so if those involved with the game respected the rules and the principles behind them. Unfortunately you've got a guy who has no respect for the rules or sportsmanship and he's happy to bring the game into disrepute if he can gain an inch from doing it. The scenes yesterday were embarrassing for football but what does he care as long as he has those players for important games, it stinks but some on here are holding their noses.
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1. Mourinho is not the first manager of a team who has done this.

2. The laws of the game were played by, if an advantage can be gained that's the law makers' fault.

3. Most people are having the debate based purely on the facts involved, however some people have now come and decided that everyone who doesn't want bans thrown out is in love with Mourinho, it's completely without foundation, completely wrong, and completely pointless to the ongoing debate.
 
R_Nick said:
We're discussing the rules of the game, and whether two Real Madrid players should be punished further for having intentionally getting themselves booked.

If you can explain how Mourinho, in any way, has something to do with that debate - other than attempting to imply some kind of bias in posters on one side of the argument - then you will have a point. The fact is though, that you won't be able to do that, simply because he isn't directly involved.
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You are having a laugh aren't you? Are you really saying that you think Mourinho is an innocent bystander in all of this, that the players behaved this way of their own volition?
 
evra said:
You are having a laugh aren't you? Are you really saying that you think Mourinho is an innocent bystander in all of this, that the players behaved this way of their own volition?
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I'm saying it's irrelevant. Unless you think the rules should be different depending on whether a player acted off his own back or if he was told to do something by his manager?
 
evra said:
You are having a laugh aren't you? Are you really saying that you think Mourinho is an innocent bystander in all of this, that the players behaved this way of their own volition?
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You are attempting to undermine the opinions of posters here based on Mourinho being a part of the equation. Not sure why you can't understand that is a problem.
 
It's happened before and it'll happen again. It's so high profile this time that UEFA can't just turn a blind eye - which is what football has traditionally done.

The most likely outcome of this is that UEFA will admit what everyone already knew and change the disciplinary rules so that the (second yellow) red gets its own ban and the previously acquired yellows still stand.

Personally I don't like the way the suspension roulette system works anyway, but that's a tougher nut to crack.
 
1. Mourinho is not the first manager of a team who has done this.

So he's not alone in bringing the game into disrepute, great defence.

2. The laws of the game were played by, if an advantage can be gained that's the law makers' fault.

The laws pertaining to this element of the game function perfectly well if people act with a modicum of respect for them.

3. Most people are having the debate based purely on the facts involved, however some people have now come and decided that everyone who doesn't want bans thrown out is in love with Mourinho, it's completely without foundation, completely wrong, and completely pointless to the ongoing debate.

The point is that if you watched the match last night and felt anything other than embarrassment for the way that Madrid (under Mourinho's stewardship) conducted themselves then you can't be making your decisions based on facts.
 
I just wish yellow cards didn't mean a ban. It's a bizarre ruling, both in the PL and CL. I don't think they should stick a number on yellows, just give a warning when it's getting a bit excessive, then a ban if the player continues. Why have some of the best players in the world suspended?

Also, is it not a bit strange that if you headbutt someone in England domestically, it's a three match ban. So you're banned for 3/38 games. In the CL, you get the same ban, despite you only playing 12ish games on average. How does that even work?
 
evra said:
1. Mourinho is not the first manager of a team who has done this.

So he's not alone in bringing the game into disrepute, great defence.
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I don't need to defend Mourinho, he's not part of the debate. You must have missed the frequent times that's been pointed out.

2. The laws of the game were played by, if an advantage can be gained that's the law makers' fault.

The laws pertaining to this element of the game function perfectly well if people act with a modicum of respect for them.
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There are no laws pertaining to this element, which is why there are people persistently pointing that out to Pete et al who want punishments dished out for something they just don't like.

3. Most people are having the debate based purely on the facts involved, however some people have now come and decided that everyone who doesn't want bans thrown out is in love with Mourinho, it's completely without foundation, completely wrong, and completely pointless to the ongoing debate.

The point is that if you watched the match last night and felt anything other than embarrassment for the way that Madrid (under Mourinho's stewardship) conducted themselves then you can't be making your decisions based on facts.
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The sport is played under rules/regulations/laws (whatever you want to call them) and that's the only relevant fact. The fact that we might not like what happened is not grounds to randomly and representatively change the rules and dish out punishments.

If the law makers want to make a change, fine, good on them, do it from next season.
 
I hate it when I go to reply to the part of the thread I was posting in earlier and it turns out there's been another 10 pages since. I hate all of you.

Anyway, I hope Uefa screw them over. It'd be funny and what they deserve for acting like bellends, but I can't see it happening. I just find it odd that people want to give them credit for doing it.

For feck sake don't start encouraging teams to behave like cocks. All that'll do is force Uefa and co to make the rules even sillier.
 
@R Nick

When I said "element of the game" I was referring to the totting up of yellow cards. I suppose it comes down to your view on the governing body's functions: if you think people should be trusted to act with some respect for the game then we don't need to legislate for every single conniving measure a manager/player can conceive of. I suppose yesterday was yet another example that points to the contrary opinion, that we just have to assume everyone in football has no principles or concern for how the game is viewed by a wider audience, sad really.
 
noodlehair said:
I hate it when I go to reply to the part of the thread I was posting in earlier and it turns out there's been another 10 pages since. I hate all of you.

Anyway, I hope Uefa screw them over. It'd be funny and what they deserve for acting like bellends, but I can't see it happening. I just find it odd that people want to give them credit for doing it.

For feck sake don't start encouraging teams to behave like cocks. All that'll do is force Uefa and co to make the rules even sillier.
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Who even did that :lol: ?
 
R_Nick said:
I don't need to defend Mourinho, he's not part of the debate. You must have missed the frequent times that's been pointed out.
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Remind me again when you earnt the right to decide what other posters can and can't discuss?

Of course Mourinho is a part of this debate - he manages the team in question.
 
They did what they did to maximise their potential for progression in a competition worth millions of Euros, you can't just say they should be expected to not take advantage of loopholes. As has been said numerous time, it's happened before and (unless the rules change) it'll happen again.

If UEFA were particularly bothered about the loophole they'd have closed it the first time it came to light.
 
Kinnel, the only reason this debate has gone on for so long is because it's Mourinho and Madrid. The Caf is as anti Barca as it is Real, everyday is one big fekin el clasico. If it was about Bayern it this thread would have one post :'robben is a cnut'

Anyway Madrid acted like cocks but exploited Uefa's spastic rules, they aren't the first and wouldn't be the last. It pisses me off how they made it so blatant though and their explanations only convey they are further taking the piss.

If I remember clearly didn't Jose criticise Kuyt when he did the same thing for the scouse?
 
BaldwinLegend said:
Remind me again when you earnt the right to decide what other posters can and can't discuss?

Of course Mourinho is a part of this debate - he manages the team in question.
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Oh for Christ sake, I answered this post the last time you made it, try reading the whole page:

We're discussing the rules of the game, and whether two Real Madrid players should be punished further for having intentionally getting themselves booked.

If you can explain how Mourinho, in any way, has something to do with that debate - other than attempting to imply some kind of bias in posters on one side of the argument - then you will have a point. The fact is though, that you won't be able to do that, simply because he isn't directly involved.
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And what are you blathering on about 'earning the right', to do what, point out when someone is talking about something completely irrelevant to the ongoing discussion?

If you want to keep talking about Mourinho then go ahead, but seeing as he wasn't on the pitch and he didn't get himself sent off he isn't a part of the argument about the rules.
 
WireRed said:
Are you in denial or just poorly educated? Mourinho and his bizarre little fan club on here are very much omnipresent in this debate.

If Guardiola and Barca, Rafa and Inter, Wenger and Arsenal and whoever else the caf has a bit of beef with, got involved in this type of skullduggery on such a clear, almost laughably flagrant level, they'd rightly be castigated for their actions. However, only Mourinho and our own club would be able to escape just criticism and acknowledgement of their cynical ways on here such is the esteem in which he's held among the majority.

Dress it up all you want, the reputation one enjoys often influences the view of other people on their actions. This is a clear case of Mourinho being defended to the hilt because of people's opinion on him. Anyone else, especially those I mentioned who the caf loves to hate to various degrees, would be criticised accordingly by many defending Mourinho and Madrid now.
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So this is how it's all been.Agenda posts after agenda posts according to you ?
I think there are some people who don't specially like Mourinho and who think there wasn't much of a big deal with his decision last night and vice-versa.
The caf has become unbearable in the sense that one can hardly have an opinion without being accused of having an agenda
 
I may have missed it in the thread but someone's dug up a precedent.

Cris and Juninho (Olympique Lyon) were fined 10k Euros for getting deliberately booked during a Champions League match two years ago. No extended ban as far as I can see.
 
kouroux said:
So this is how it's all been.Agenda posts after agenda posts according to you ?
I think there are some people who don't specially like Mourinho and who think there wasn't much of a big deal with his decision last night and vice-versa.
The caf has become unbearable in the sense that one can hardly have an opinion without being accused of having an agenda
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I didn't say all, I said "majority" and I stand by that.

What you say is true and I'm not normally one to point the finger of accusation in this regard but in this case it applies IMO. You have to be in some sort of mental state or pro-Jose to not be able to acknowledge the wrongdoing in this instance and the part Mourinho and his staff played in it.
 
jojojo said:
I may have missed it in the thread but someone's dug up a precedent.

Cris and Juninho (Olympique Lyon) were fined 10k Euros for getting deliberately booked during a Champions League match two years ago. No extended ban as far as I can see.
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Hopefully the relevant body has learned by now that relatively minor pecuniary punishments are not effective, only bans for the players would ensure that we don't see this kind of embarrassing behaviour in the future.
 
WireRed said:
I didn't say all, I said "majority" and I stand by that.

What you say is true and I'm not normally one to point the finger of accusation in this regard but in this case it applies IMO. You have to be in some sort of mental state or pro-Jose to not be able to acknowledge the wrongdoing in this instance and the part Mourinho and his staff played in it.
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Here is the way I see it.I don't like what happened but I don't feel disgusted nor shocked as many people are, it's a loophole of the system.I don't like Mourinho nor Real Madrid and I'm not in a bad mental state.
 
As I stated on the last page:


AlwaysRedwood said:
This is my favorite of all the types of arguments we constantly see here on Red Cafe. Undermine what is a decent argument because you disagree by attacking the person's love or lack of love for a player/manager.

Try sticking to the actual points because this one always degenerates a thread into complete nonsense. See: Sam G and Rafa
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You can make it about Jose, but then there's no reason to discuss anything.

Kudos everyone.
 
R_Nick said:
Christ alive, your a condescending cnut. feck off with this shit.

The hypocrisy of it this is that it's only the people like you who keep bringing him up.



All bollocks, perpetuated, ironically, because you just don't like Mourinho.
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Says he with his patronising, holier than thou attitude...

Who said I don't like Mourinho? Great coach, great tactical and mental preparation, great character, great sense of humour, etc, etc, etc. I don't dislike him at all, I'm just not in awe of him like some and let any admiration for him cloud my judgement.
 
WireRed said:
Says he with his patronising, holier than thou attitude...

Who said I don't like Mourinho? Great coach, great tactical and mental preparation, great character, great sense of humour, etc, etc, etc. I don't dislike him at all, I'm just not in awe of him like some and let any admiration for him cloud my judgement.
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So you don't have any bias but people who hold a different opinion clearly have a bias.

Well said.
 
WireRed said:
Says he with his patronising, holier than thou attitude...

Who said I don't like Mourinho? Great coach, great tactical and mental preparation, great character, great sense of humour, etc, etc, etc. I don't dislike him at all, I'm just not in awe of him like some and let any admiration for him cloud my judgement.
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Who's the one saying anyone who doesn't agree with him is poorly educated or blindly in love with Mourinho? Well done, shit for brains.

I'm not bothering any more, you're a contemptible sod and I'm not wasting any more of my time.
 
R_Nick, you were calling me stupid earlier for a valid opinion that I and others have backed up. It might not be "right" and you may not agree with it, but you started this whole disrespectful prancing around.
 
R_Nick said:
Who's the one saying anyone who doesn't agree with him is poorly educated or blindly in love with Mourinho? Well done, shit for brains.

I'm not bothering any more, you're a contemptible sod and I'm not wasting any more of my time.
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You're well and truly overreacting to a bit of your own patronising medicine.

I don't see why the dummy has been spat out and you're resorting to insults, just take a bit of banter and get on with the debate in hand(that's just a bit of friendly advice before you get a mope on about this aswell).
 
R_Nick said:
Christ alive, your a condescending cnut. feck off with this shit.
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R_Nick said:
Well done, shit for brains.

I'm not bothering any more, you're a contemptible sod and I'm not wasting any more of my time.
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What on earth is wrong with you today? Seems completely out of character.

Seems strange that Peterstorey gets pulled up for insulting people when you've actually been far more aggressive and rude yourself.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
So you don't have any bias but people who hold a different opinion clearly have a bias.

Well said.
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I'm impartial on this topic. I respect Mourinho and would probably choose him as SAF's successor, nor do I hate Madrid. I'm calling it as I see it, and what I saw was a flagrant abuse of the system and appalling sense of fair play.

And yeah, I'd wager that the majority defending Mourinho and his team are fuelled by their adoration of Jose and conviction that he's a future United boss in waiting.
 
WireRed said:
I'm impartial on this topic. I respect Mourinho and would probably choose him as SAF's successor, nor do I hate Madrid. I'm calling it as I see it, and what I saw was a flagrant abuse of the system and appalling sense of fair play.

And yeah, I'd wager that the majority defending Mourinho and his team are fuelled by their adoration of Jose and conviction that he's a future United boss in waiting.
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Weird. I dislike Mourinho, hate Madrid and do not want him to coach United but I don't have a problem with what they did.

Go figure.

You are still being obtuse about your baseless accusations and derailing the thread.
 
Look, it's clear there's a divide in opinions on this, it doesn't have to be a case of accepting or liking the opposite argument, but at least avoid the insults. We all agree it was wrong to do what they did, however to what degree and the question of punishment is the issue here.

Otherwise I'll just lock the thread seen as it's generating a fair bit of hostility.
 
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