A treasure chest of LVG's tactics and transfer plans. What a find that would be for Mourinho.
LVG's Legacy/Foundations
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It's well documented that Puyol wanted to leave the club as he wasn't getting chances but only remained since he saw that LvG gave debut to Xavi. Barca even accepted a fee from Mallorca or someone but Puyol realised that he would get a fair chance if he worked hard so he remained with the club. And he did get his chance in a year or so. So but for him, Puyol, Barcelona's one club man who captained Spain and Barca , probably would have left the club early into their careers.
Schweini only played as CM once or so for the NT. He first played at club level under van gaal so I am not sure that playing him as a winger earlier in his tenure was unacceptable.
LVG'S foundations are so good, who you hire next doesn't even matter. If we hired fecking David Moyes after LVG we'll still be successful because his foundations are so amazing, the club has no choice than to be great for the next 10 years, nothing to do with coach who actually achieves that success
Mourinho in the past decade has probably won more than LVG has in 20 years of coaching, yet he needs LVG's notes?
. How does LVG get these sort of believers
. How does LVG get these sort of believersEngland will win the World Cup thanks to LVG. Just like Spain and Germany
Of course they will. He discovered Rashford after all, who is going to replace Rooney to be an England legend and made Shaw the player he is today. We owe it all to LVG.
Pure ignorance. Xavi was on the brink of being sold by Bar a when LVG returned to the club. Not only did he veto it, he changed Xavi's position and the rest is history. Xavier doesn't credit him with kick starting his career for nothing.....Just because his spell at United was awful doesn't make his past achievements and what the likes of Xavier say about him inflated myth.
Xavier definitely owes him a lot. Same with Andres Inyasista, Mike Smalling and loads of other misnamed footballers.
As far as I can see from reading this thread most people recognise these things as LVGs legacy.
- Rashford + other debutes
- Shaw, Herrera, Martial, Depay, Blind, Mensah, Schneiderlin etc
- Putting Januzaj in his place
- Education to the players (pressure and passing)
- Handling of DDG saga
- Reforming academy
- Lowering average squad age
- Accumulating hunger for success to the club (?)
- Cleaning up the biggest mess ever left by any manager in the club's history and gave some hope initially
- FA cup
- Leaving a squad good enough to win the league if only adding another 4 world class players
- Stability to the club ( consolidation of current team ability translated into league points )
- Cameras at training ground
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For all his faults one of the good things during his tenure was us in big games. His record is pretty good in those and only one time we looked like mugs, vs Arsenal at Emirates last year. And maybe vs City at Etihad in his first year. But games like that happen.
Rashford was through luck than judgement.
Martial and Blind I'd give him credit for.
His handling of Januzaj (starting line up one minute, loaned to Dortmund next) was terrible
Educated players to play the most dour football I've ever seen from us.
Fluked the DDG saga. A positive similar to Rashford I suppose.
FA Cup. A positive. Nice draws.
Most squads in the league would be challenging with 4 world class players added.
Stabilised the club to the point we were going nowhere.
Reports suggest that Mourinho has already binned the cameras.
Try again!
@RedPed @Leftback99 you are being very unserious in this discussion if you're not going to credit LVG for anything. Lucky this and lucky that. With all that luck he should have won pretty much everything.
Many would agree with everything I said above.
He gets praise for the basics of coaching, buying, selling and picking players
Funny few lads in here rewriting history saying LVG didn't develop youth. There's probably similar thread in RAWK saying fergie just sat there and giggs and scholes came through same as they would under any manager, easy job
It will say:
After we have purchased Messi, Neymar and Suarez, the final phase of the master plan of sideways/backwards passing, while holding 80% possession, shall be implemented.
The plan of trying to win every game 1-0 and finishing in the top 3, shall be realised!
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It's because of luck that he lasted as long as he did at United.
I don't agree rashford was luck. As many including me have said he could have played anyone as a false 9. Mourinho certainly won't play a youth striker with no experience just because he has no fit strikers. Especially in a key game. Van gaal could have just as well have played Pereira as a LW and depay uptop as a false 9 in that game.
He took a brave gamble and it worked. There aren't a lot of managers who would take that gamble.
He took a brave gamble and it worked. There aren't a lot of managers who would take that gamble.
Where did you get this information from? He had become extremely important to Barca ever since his debut. I think he was their main playmaker when LVG returned in 2002.
LVG certainly took a massive gamble in such an important fixture. The fact that he had to take that gamble means it was a forced move and not something he had planned. That is why people argue it was more luck than some sort of LVG's masterstroke. It would be considered a masterstroke and everyone would have given LVG the credit for Rashford if he had dropped Rooney for Rashford, but that was not the case.
Not the return but I think he is right about the first time. Xavi and puyol wanted to leave the club because they weren't getting chances but van gaal gave Xavi his debut and puyol stayed believing he will get chances if he play well in the reserves.
The thing is not a lot of managers would take this gamble. Mourinho last season had no fit strikers and decided to play hazard as a false 9. Wenger had no fit CBs in 14/15 when they played us and he decided to play the LB Monreal at CB instead of a youth player. Which is why I give van gaal credit for actually playing rashford and not just playing pereira who had more first team experience.
Not sure about it so I cannot comment. Maybe LVG did give them chances but you have to remember that Xavi was only 17-18 that time. So I have doubts if he was that desperate to leave.
That is clutching at straws. Just because someone has not taken a gamble does not mean that LVG should be credited for a youth player when his gamble was forced upon him. Moreover, when you look to credit managers, you have to think of the kind of transformation Bale went from LB to LW. Or when LVG actually moved BFS to midfield from the wing. Those are the kind of things managers should get credit for and not when they have to throw youth players at the deep end as their hands are forced. That can do harm to the players who may struggle as they have not been slowly brought into the first team.
Why not? 90% of the managers would have played pereira in the wing and depay uptop instead of rashford. Whether it was forced or not he did play rashford and had he not done so it's unlikely that he would have played till he went on loan or something. There are lots of players teams have lost (like Pogba or de bruyne) because the managers didn't play them even though they had the chance to, so no it's something I give him credit for.
But apparently very few players were getting chances under Bobby Robson. Mainly puyol I think was in his 20s when LvG came and was all set to leave (to Mallorca. Barca accepted a fee) but he stayed seeing that van gaal gives chances to deserving youth.
The bottom line is if LVG had promoted Rashford ahead of senior players who weren't playing well, then no-one would be debating this. As many keep trying to explain, he brought Rashford in because he had no choice not because he was going to give the kid a break. If Rashford had not scored on his debut, LVG probably would not have continued with him as he did. I just don't understand what part of this people don't get? I bet if this was Moyes, this would have been dismissed ages ago. LVG still has some fans under his spell it seems.
Louis' methods are only suited to international football where only creating 2 chances in a game against Brazil or Germany is acceptable as long as you don't give their forwards a sniff.
Louis was a total disaster but in 2 years time when Rashford/Martial/Fosu Mensah are ripping it up every weekend then Louis' reign will be remembered a little more fondly. There's something likable about him despite being 20 years out of touch with the modern game. I feel he was a very very tiny upgrade on Moyes.....Moyes bottled it from day 1...Louis at least looked like he had the balls for it despite having no idea what he was doing.....Smalling looked like another Van Gaal success story but Jose or Big Sam don't seem to rate him and in fairness our defense looks 10 times better since Smalling has been benched
Louis was a total disaster but in 2 years time when Rashford/Martial/Fosu Mensah are ripping it up every weekend then Louis' reign will be remembered a little more fondly. There's something likable about him despite being 20 years out of touch with the modern game. I feel he was a very very tiny upgrade on Moyes.....Moyes bottled it from day 1...Louis at least looked like he had the balls for it despite having no idea what he was doing.....Smalling looked like another Van Gaal success story but Jose or Big Sam don't seem to rate him and in fairness our defense looks 10 times better since Smalling has been benched
As I said above, 90% of the managers would have played pereira over rashford even in that situation. Opting to go for a false 9.
If rashford hadn't scored he may still have given him chances. Lingard had a decent half vs Everton and this got him more chances even though he didn't score. Unless Rashford had a complete stinker like Wilson had for us it is likely he would have got more chances. Maybe not vs Arsenal but more sub appearances. This is based on the guy's history at United and at other clubs in relation to youth players (McNair had decent games and got more chances in his first season. So did multiple players in the second)
Every great player ever was once picked by someone for their debuts, Rooney, Messi,CR7 et al......why is it defined as a legacy/foundations only when LVG does it?
Now you are assuming that other managers would play Pereira. Could easily be that some other player may have been played. Also LVG is a nut job. He tried to veto the buy of Neur. You may choose to believe that other managers would not play Rashford or play Pereira. However, I have nothing to believe that and this is the same guy who chose to play Ashley Young as a striker and was planning on not playing Smalling as first choice (his intention was Jones and Blind).
The same LVG who absolutely froze him out post January? The reason why he didn't select Pereira was because he had decided to punish him and Januzaj. Again not a glowing reference.
But then again as people say he didn't have a choice and squad was stretched? He also gave pereira a few sub appearances and was on the bench for this game (think he came on with 10 mins to go) so it's not like he was unwilling to play him. Also the 'punishment' reportedly was by mcguiness because of their antics in some youth game? I have serious doubts someone who played many youth players during his tenure would simply not play a youth player due to some personal reason. They probably didn't show enough in training to warrant a place.
This is also the same guy who is highly praised by players like Xavi puyol iniesta schweinsteiger Lahm robben van der sar kluivert etc. Some of the best players of the last 20 years have nothing but glowing words for him. Clearly he has done a lot of things right.
As for the belief of managers not playing a rookie, it's based on what I said in my previous post. Mourinho and Wenger decided to play players out of position rather than play a youth player during an injury crisis. You will be hard pressed to find many managers who thinks otherwise too. Pereira has more first team experience. It's not a stretch to imagine he would be picked over Rashford by a lot of players.
Many managers including Wenger have given chances to youngsters instead of playing players out of position. But since each of these times is out of necessity, they don't get that sort of recognition. However with LVG it's like some people want to blow up a small thing and a fairly common thing as some sort of legacy.
It seems a bit much to not give LVG some credit for playing Rashford given his public statements about keeping a small squad so as to give academy players a chance. It was lucky that we were stretched with injuries enough to give Rashford his debut, but that was his contingency whereas other managers would have kept RVP another year for insurance given his experience and goal scoring record.
If he's going to get blamed for having such a shallow squad and forcing us to give so many academy players their first team debuts then he should get credit for those debuts, especially in Rashford's case as he kept selecting him to start even when we got players back.
I liked LVG personally as I found his bluntness with the media hilarious and generally felt his arrogance was much more preferable to whatever Moyes did, but he deserved to be axed given the resources spent in such a short time. Don't think we need to explain away even the things that he deserves credit for though.
If he's going to get blamed for having such a shallow squad and forcing us to give so many academy players their first team debuts then he should get credit for those debuts, especially in Rashford's case as he kept selecting him to start even when we got players back.
I liked LVG personally as I found his bluntness with the media hilarious and generally felt his arrogance was much more preferable to whatever Moyes did, but he deserved to be axed given the resources spent in such a short time. Don't think we need to explain away even the things that he deserves credit for though.
Exactly! By applying the same flawed logic, even Moyes is beginning to look half decent, which can't be right.
Why didn't LVG bring on a youth player instead of Nick Powell when we needed a goal against Wolfsburg?
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