I can agree with some of the players but the other thing? No. Mou is more then capable to learn the players to pass the way he want. Giving LvG credit for learning players to pass I think is wrong. If Mou does good thats because of Mou and not the proccess of LvG. He did good to bring up Rashford but there were many circumstances that made it possible. Same goes for TFM.
LVG's Legacy/Foundations
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Well that is a topic for another thread. Not this one. This thread is to access any positives he left behind. Not to piss and moan about how some of us hate him so much and how he didn't live up to expectations nor the hype.
Oh aye most definitely. In the end he won the FA cup with us so it wasn't that bad now was it? Was it?
What part of the word squad do you not get? I also repeat, if all he did in the transfer market was blow money Mourinho wouldn't have only added 4 players to his current first team squad.
This is quite spectacular. 'Only' 4 world class players, as if it's easy for for a club to go sign 4 world class players every summer, and that 4 world class players isn't a big deal, it's only like .. a minor improvement to the squad.We were signing Shaw regardless.
Blind and Martial we excellent signings, - I don't think anyone will dispute that.
However, it seems the most shunned players by Mourinho are not Fergie players, not even Moyes players - but LvG players. Aside from Herrera, who's sort of on the fringes of the team, who else is there? Morgan, Bastian, Depay, Rojo, none of them look like they're in his plans. Di Maria turned out to be a bit of a disaster, too. Let's not even mention Falcao.
3 successful signings out of 9/10 is pretty fecking dire.
talk of another pointless post. A team like United has zero business having trouble signing world class players. The fact also remains if LVG left utter shit behind the vast majority of the squad would be sold or transfer listed and Mourinho would never have stopped at signing 4 players.
4 first team players is a huge addition to a football team, its over a third of the starting line up and all 4 are guaranteed starters in the spine of the team so it suggests LVG did not leave the team in good shape at all.
Probably the only reason we don't see more signings is because it will unbalance the squad.
What world-class players have we signed since Fergie left? I'd argue the only one until the summer was Di Maria, and look how that turned out, never even wanted to be here.
As I said in my previous post, the majority of Mou's preferred XI and subs are a mix of Fergie & Moyes players, with only 3/4 out of 9/10 being LvG signings. That's a piss poor return.
That fact is the majority of players Mourinho sees no place for in the side are LvG players.
Is there a point to this off topic post? Because I don't see any. No one is arguing LVG should have stayed. No one is saying he'd have attracted the players Mourinho has been able to. Its also rather baffling that you imagine it hard for a team of United's quality with the a top manager to attract world class players. Yet even the hated LVG was able to attract Di Maria and Falcao to add to the already incoming Shaw and Herrerra
It was bad for a man of his previous rep
But 'worse than Moyes'/' the worst ever'? You're having a laugh. Or you are plain stupid if you believe any of that....
Why are you quoting the same post again?
I think you're the one bringing the pointless argument into it, here. It's not easy for any club to get 4 world class players in one window. At no point did I single out our club. When's the last time a club did that? I'd argue not since Real did in Summer 09. My point was that saying 'we only had to sign 4 world class players' to improve the squad is absolutely absurd because signing 4 world-class players makes a mammoth improvement to ANY squad. They're world-class for feck sake!
So basically you didn't have a point. Thanks for the confirmation
If they had no place in the side they wouldn't be part of his 25 man squad for the season.
Aye, I was about to say that. 4/11 players, and of the remaining "7", all of DDG, Valencia, Smalling (one can argue Blind - I think majority agrees his been a star for us at CB), Rooney, Fellaini "pre-dates" LvG.
So after all the money spent and 4 transfer windows later, LvG's signings (if we're being kind, Shaw and Herrera are classified as his signings) guaranteed in the first XI seems to be Shaw and Martial. Even Martial, as LvG said, was signed for his successor - Giggs. But let's not argue pedantics.
Falcao, AdM and valdes - gone. Bastian soon to follow. And how much longer Darmian, Romero, Depay, Rojo and even Schneiderlin/Herrera, (who are both on the fringes and not first choice after substantial investment into them) are still with our club, is unclear.
That, in all honesty, is an appalling transfer record and makes the "he left a stronger squad" debate...well, debatable, IMO.
Obviously most of us were excited at signing those players, based on their previous record/performances/potential etc....but it seems hardly any of them have really worked out for us under LvG.
Actually I think the issue is you don't have a tangible response.
Right because what's the point in filling up the 25 man squad if you don't have a need for the players? Not like you have injuries, cup competitions etc.
Fact is that a lot of LvG's signings are currently on the fringes or not being used at all which clearly shows that Mourinho doesn't see much use for them other than for injuries or minor cup competitions.
You seem like one of those posters who doesn't actually read what anyone else says and just makes shit up as you go along cause you're so set in your ways.
Where did you clock me saying LVG was worse than Moyes?
He can clearly read into our mind's cause everything he claims we say, we don't actually say.
The majority is still players signed after him or pre dating him. Perhaps Mourinho didn't want to or is unable to add further to the squad because he can't shift players like Schweinsteiger or Rojo. Most reports seem to suggest that's the case.
That makes zero sense. If the squad was unbalanced as you claim many players would have been shipped out. As it stands now of bona fide first teamers LVG left behind only Schweinstieger and McNair have been identified as surplus to requirements. That does not point to the new man in charge thinking his squad is unbalanced.
Yeah right.
I bet those reports are similar to the ones that assured as Blind, Mata, Valencia and Fellaini were sure to be sold by Mourinho
I insist. You never had a point.
You ask yourself that. You are the one after all trying to argue that Mourinho has only 11 players he wants and the others are unwanted and their for mere convenience.
I will simply post a link to what Mourinho thinks of his squad. Which is in direct opposition to most of your claims:
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...nho-discusses-his-23-man-squad-with-mutv.aspx
I used you in the general sense. Unfortunately that got lost in translation
What I'm starting to find truly hilarious is the idea that Mourinho, at a club that gives him full managerial power, would leave himself a squad of 25 that is either unbalanced or full of players he doesn't want, just there to make up numbers. An argument being made simply to just desperately cling on to the notion LVG left Nada but disaster behind.....
4 guaranteed starters being brought in, in one window , pretty much suggests LVG's 1st choice team was not good enough.
As @Ish 's breakdown illustrates so well, LVG did not buy the likes of AdM, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Rojo or Depay to sit on the bench. They were bought as first 11 and even LVG did not think them worthy to nail down a spot during his tenure, which speaks volumes!
I'm not saying he was a complete disaster; LVG did steady the ship after the Moyes debacle and bringing us our first post SAF silverware was also a major bonus but I think it should be somewhat accepted that his transfer dealings were, on the whole, poor.
Well it has been reported we are struggling to move on the likes of Schweinsteiger, Rojo, Depay Jones due to wages
Schweinsteiger, Darmian, Depay, Rojo, Scneiderlin and Romero have played 6 minutes between them so far. The reports have a little more credence given that evidence.
It was also reported that Valencia, Blind, Fellaini and Mata would be sold. That Mata was headed straight for the exit door after being subbed in the Community Shield game. That Fosu Mensah has been placed on the transfer list, just because he missed present season minutues due to injury. Yet we all know how its turning out. Players aren't leaving in mass mainly because a) Mourinho still has use for them and b) ala Schweinstieger they want to stick around and some how convince Mourinho to change his mind about them. It has feck all to do with wages. Right now the press wants us to believe that whoever doesn't make match day squad is unwanted or on the transfer list. Which is ridiculous in the extreme. I mean, its hardly a week and a half since Mourinho spoke fondly of Depay and his plans for him..Yet 'reports' want to convince us he is now suddenly tired of him and only wages are sparing his hide. If Mourinho doesn't want a player he will let the world know.
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They will only have credence when after the international break none of them get a game. Mourinho has said in September he fully intends to give most of the rest of his squad game time. Nothing thus far suggest he is just playing politics.
They'll play in cup games. It's not exactly a sign of players the managers believes are good enough to win him the league. What do you expect from people here? To wax lyrical that Van Gaal identified two players in two years, with an unlimited transfer budget, that are good enough for our strongest team? You'll be waiting a while on that one.
I expect people to stop pedaling obvious bullshit. No manager worth his salt keeps a squad full of players he inherited from a previous regime, that he doesn't want or are an unbalanced collection. Trying to argue that a squad of 25 is only their for cup games is the type of bullshit I'm talking about. Squads win titles. Not just first 11s. So to try to ever argue only the first choice starters are wanted is plain ridiculous. I also don't want anyone to wax lyric about LVG. Rather I simply want folks to quit lying about him and what he left behind just because they hate him and thought him a rubbish manager.
I think he would have guaranteed a top 4 finish nearly every other year by 2020 at any rate. Not to be sniffed at.
How'd that work out for him?
Basically he brought players in and they played like shit for him, and barely seemed to care. All hail the foundation he built, never mind it was crumbling under him.
What's wrong with you? Why are you constantly trying to invent stuff that was never said? Why are you constantly departing on silly tangents that serve no relevance to the original discussion we were having?
I never once said Mourinho only has 11 players he wants. I said that LvG's signings are the ones on the fringes/not being used.
I never once said Mourinho wasn't happy with his squad. In fact - that's so unbelievably irrelevant to this discussion that it's almost mind bending in its daftness.
If LVG happened to recruit some players who are useful to his successor, then yes - that's a positive, what else could it be?
But it has little to do with leaving behind a "foundation" in any meaningful sense. You have to identify what this "foundation" actually is - and then demonstrate how Mourinho has benefited from it, directly or indirectly. If you can't do that, it isn't a "foundation" - it's simply one manager getting sacked and another taking over (something which happens a lot in football, without anyone insisting that "foundations" are being built all the the time, the latter seems to be mainly an LVG thing).
But it has little to do with leaving behind a "foundation" in any meaningful sense. You have to identify what this "foundation" actually is - and then demonstrate how Mourinho has benefited from it, directly or indirectly. If you can't do that, it isn't a "foundation" - it's simply one manager getting sacked and another taking over (something which happens a lot in football, without anyone insisting that "foundations" are being built all the the time, the latter seems to be mainly an LVG thing).
This needs to be post again. Especially the bold part.
IMO, he did alright, except for the playing style. Result wise could be better, but I can forgive him that because we are much better against the top teams in the league than Moyes. I don't think I'll ever forget being beaten by City and Liverpool and looking completely clueless. That was worst than anything LvG ever shown us.
Also, it's funny how some people can't credited Rashford on him. "Lucky because all the other players are injured" ? Are you fecking kidding me? Have you seen our injury records throughout that season? Players will get injured and he made a conscious decision to go with youngsters when that happened. And like most posters already noted, he could've played Depay upfront. But instead, he trusted Rashford, a converted winger with no outstanding goal record in the youth team to lead the line for United in an important away game. That's something we can credit him for.
I am not saying that he shouldn't be sacked. He should and wish we done it sooner. But there are so many factors why we couldn't do it sooner. Mourinho availability, FA Cup run. Heck I can credit him for winning the FA Cup. At least he went out with a trophy
What he bought wasn't good enough. That's why most can't get a game or have been sold on already.
Seriously? you want to start denying your own statements?
Sure. because saying this:
[That fact is the majority of players Mourinho sees no place for in the side are LvG players.]
or this:
[Fact is that a lot of LvG's signings are currently on the fringes or not being used at all which clearly shows that Mourinho doesn't see much use for them other than for injuries or minor cup competitions.]
or this:
[Right because what's the point in filling up the 25 man squad if you don't have a need for the players? Not like you have injuries, cup competitions etc.
in response to this;
[If they had no place in the side they wouldn't be part of his 25 man squad for the season.]
'some how' mean you are not implying Mourinho sees no practical use for the LVG bought fringe players in the squad....
read above
Honestly, the only thing i'm seeing daft here is you attempting to deny your own positions that you posted earlier.
Frankly I don't have time for this shit. Suit yourself
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The only player he bought that has been sold to date is Di Maria. I also still insist it they all weren't good enough they'd all have been relegated to the under 23's like Bastian Schweinstieger by Mourinho. Besides, the jury is still out as to whether it was they who were not good enough or it was he who simply didn't know how to use them effectively.
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I .. what? None of that goes against what I saidSeriously? you want to start denying your own statements?
Sure. because saying this:
[That fact is the majority of players Mourinho sees no place for in the side are LvG players.]
or this:
[Fact is that a lot of LvG's signings are currently on the fringes or not being used at all which clearly shows that Mourinho doesn't see much use for them other than for injuries or minor cup competitions.]
or this:
[Right because what's the point in filling up the 25 man squad if you don't have a need for the players? Not like you have injuries, cup competitions etc.
in response to this;
[If they had no place in the side they wouldn't be part of his 25 man squad for the season.]
'some how' mean you are not implying Mourinho sees no practical use for the LVG bought fringe players in the squad....
read above
Honestly, the only thing i'm seeing daft here is you attempting to deny your own positions that you posted earlier.
Frankly I don't have time for this shit. Suit yourself
I gave you a reason for Mourinho keeping them:
clearly shows that Mourinho doesn't see much use for them other than for injuries or minor cup competitions.
Fringe players, squad players, etc. - not first team players.
Fact is that most of the players who aren't getting games right now or even on the bench, who are in our 25 man squad ... are players LvG purchased.
Of our current best team, 3 players that Van Gaal signed will make the starting line up. This includes Shaw who Moyes recommended. I reckon the ones that will get used for big games occasionally will be Herrera, Scheinderlin, Rashford, Rojo. Other than that, the rest of LVG signings will be reserved for Europa League and Carling Cup
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