I was under the influence of alcohol at the time but regardless of home records the smaller teams playing us didnt have the fear factor that we used to have under SAF. That was the point I was trying to get across!
LVG's Legacy/Foundations
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Come on, that's just the way Mourinho talks. We all know that. He's just unwilling to share any credit with LVG.
First of all I'm happy the discussion is ongoing. I think there are a lot of thoughts that need to be aired and I also see there's still a huge support for LVG on the forum. Who knows, he might make a new appearance at the club in the future
I am very well aware of the fact that his name alone can make this place so hostile, but I think we need to put things into perspective here. First of all I don't think we should compare Moyes with LVG at all. Moyes was a complete charlatan, a fraud of a manager who made SAF believe they had the same philosophy of football just because they had the same background
I think SAF need to call that the biggest mistake of his life. Or is there anyone here who would like to argue on that?Some posters try to make it look like LVG is some harmful insect to clubs and that he never won anything. Are you for real or just trolling? Here's a little something for you:
Managerial honours
Ajax
AZ
Bayern Munich
Manchester United
Netherlands
Ajax
- Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96
- KNVB Cup: 1992–93
- Johan Cruijff Shield: 1993, 1994, 1995
- UEFA Champions League: 1994–95
- UEFA Cup: 1991–92
- UEFA Super Cup: 1995
- Intercontinental Cup: 1995
AZ
Bayern Munich
Manchester United
Netherlands
- 2014 FIFA World Cup: Third place
- World Soccer Manager of the Year: 1995
- Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 1995
- Rinus Michels Award: 2007, 2009
- Dutch Sports Coach of the Year: 2009, 2014
- Die Sprachwahrer des Jahres (3rd place): 2009
- German Football Manager of the Year: 2010
Manager
Preston North End
Manchester United
Individual
Preston North End
Manchester United
Individual
- LMA Manager of the Year: 2002–03, 2004–05, 2008–09
- Premier League Manager of the Month: November 2002, September 2004, January 2006, February 2008, February 2009, January 2010, March 2010, October 2010, September 2012, March 2013
Bravo.
Had we been a 4th/5th place team, I'd applaud LVG; but like Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Juve - getting 5th place is sackable. At Real, h'd have been gone after the 1st season.
And lets not forget that he introduced the most boring football seen at OT, for the last few decades. It's funny how LVG supporters don't discuss this.
To spend more money than other team in the World, in the space of 18 months, then to get 5th place - lets applaud LVG for this shall we.
How much would he need to spend to get us 2nd place I wonder...£400M?
And if we wanted 1st place, he'd probably tell us that no amount of money could get MUFC to ever win the title again.
The truth is that he spent huge sums of a money and gave a poor return. Fans were bored. The results were poor. All round, he was poor and should've been sacked on January 1st 2016.
Tbh, after many years of "no value in the market" leading to overaged spine which wasn't addressed until they were all past it or retired, these kinds of investments were a mere necessity.
Jose was allowed to spend what LVG spent in a single window, so he better be more successful.
I think nobody here questions the sacking of vG as legit for a variety of reasons. It's that notion of him being the worst thing that could've happened which isn't exactly fair.
The bit in bold i 100% agree with you on. It must also be said, most of van Gaal's success as a coach came in the 90's. Not even those who hate him can deny he was a great coach then but this century, he's won nowhere near as much as he did in the 90's.Come on, that's just the way Mourinho talks. We all know that. He's just unwilling to share any credit with LVG.
First of all I'm happy the discussion is ongoing. I think there are a lot of thoughts that need to be aired and I also see there's still a huge support for LVG on the forum. Who knows, he might make a new appearance at the club in the future
I am very well aware of the fact that his name alone can make this place so hostile, but I think we need to put things into perspective here. First of all I don't think we should compare Moyes with LVG at all. Moyes was a complete charlatan, a fraud of a manager who made SAF believe they had the same philosophy of football just because they had the same background
Some posters try to make it look like LVG is some harmful insect to clubs and that he never won anything. Are you for real or just trolling? Here's a little something for you:
Managerial honours
Ajax
Barcelona
- Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96
- KNVB Cup: 1992–93
- Johan Cruijff Shield: 1993, 1994, 1995
- UEFA Champions League: 1994–95
- UEFA Cup: 1991–92
- UEFA Super Cup: 1995
- Intercontinental Cup: 1995
AZ
Bayern Munich
Manchester United
Netherlands
Awards and achievements
- 2014 FIFA World Cup: Third place
- World Soccer Manager of the Year: 1995
- Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 1995
- Rinus Michels Award: 2007, 2009
- Dutch Sports Coach of the Year: 2009, 2014
- Die Sprachwahrer des Jahres (3rd place): 2009
- German Football Manager of the Year: 2010
Manager
Preston North End
Manchester United
Individual
- LMA Manager of the Year: 2002–03, 2004–05, 2008–09
- Premier League Manager of the Month: November 2002, September 2004, January 2006, February 2008, February 2009, January 2010, March 2010, October 2010, September 2012, March 2013
You also need to remember that LVG has involved in national football for some time during the 00's and he's also been in holland a lot which pretty much takes you off the football radar to be honest. The philosophy is probably at it's best when players are not established because it takes a lot of submission, something that often clashes with mega stars. I think there's a reason LVG never worked in Italy with all the egos they got going there.
The school of football in the Netherlands is the finest and most recognized in the world. These guys are so serious and pragmatic in their way of living and learning football. Every detail is taken into account. LVG is part of that school and I'm sorry to say it didn't work out with the players in Manchester. However, there's still plenty of work done and I can assure you José Mourinho did not start from scratch here.
"Only adding 4 players and the team is winning"; I believe that's going to be a mantra for man united fans for a long time to come as well as for Van Gaal.
Would you care to argue for your view? Would you say the squad was worse than the one he inherited?
His legacy is to bore the fans to the point where we appriciate literally anything other than what he served us for two years, making this season extremly enjoyable despite not playing the most exciting brand of football yet.
Moyes - 7th 64 points
£250m spending (Something like £150m net spend)
LVG - 5th 66 points
£250m spending (Something like £150m net spend)
LVG - 5th 66 points
Are we supposed to be taking this thread seriously?
Rashford if he does indeed go on to become a world class player for us will be LVG's only legacy (and I don't think anyone outside of Man Utd fans would remember or care how he ended up getting a chance).
Martial and Blind (especially his move to CB) have been quality signings but I don't think managers are really remembered for who they bought.
Martial and Blind (especially his move to CB) have been quality signings but I don't think managers are really remembered for who they bought.
Well, what exactly are these 'solid foundations' that you and other pro LVG people keep talking about?? I just don't get it. You mentioned that Moyes brought in Fellaini and Mata. Well Jose has been using them quite a bit now hasn't he, so surely Moyes has built some solid foundations for the club too...but he was only in post for 10 months.
Where are Falcao, Di Maria, Rojo, Depay, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger? LVG has had two years and unlimited resources. We keep going over the same ground again. Yet the football was the worst I've ever seen at OT. How has it taken Jose 2 months and 7 or so games to make the team look completely different?
All managers when they are first appointed sign players to 'improve' the squad they inherited. It is kind of expected. The chairmen and boards set aside budgets for that very purpose and players come and go.. So I don't get what special accomplishment you are trying to attribute to van Gaal here? If Mark Hughes was sacked tomorrow, I would say that the squad he left Stoke City with is better than the one he inherited. It's no big deal. That's what managers do. But Hughes is just a crap manager.
I just don't get why people are trying to give van Gaal any credit when he is such an abject failure. I won't even give him the FA Cup, as we were 10 minutes away from blowing that as well. It's time just to move on.
You would hope that the squad looks a little better after that. Not sure what people are trying to accomplish by comparing the squad before and after LvG. He kept extending his timeline when the results didn't go his way. It's not that he had some grand long term plan, but rather that by the time he was sacked, his success plan became a very long term plan because it just wasn't happening anytime soon.
Gotta give LvG a much deserved credit for being such a great bullshitter though. I don't know in which sports and universe the managers keep failing at their job and when the results improve immediately after them getting fired, claim that they "laid the foundations for success".
He left the team in maybe a slightly better state than the one he inherited was in but that's not saying much when he spent north of £200m. He did not leave the squad that was nearly good enough to be competing for titles as evidenced by Mourinho adding a quality player to each formation - won't be surprised at all if Bailly is our best defender, Pogba the best midfielder, and Mkhitaryan with Zlatan two of the best attacking players this season.
He hasn't laid any foundations either. Two players he gave chances to who might feature a bit this season (Rashford and Fosu-Mensah) broke through because of injury crisis and he should not get full credit like he does with players like Iniesta from his devoted fans. Blind and Martial were his best signings and could well be the only ones remaining in 2-3 years. Shaw too but he would have signed regardless. Schneiderlin might have a small chance of featuring a bit and that's about it. Terrible record.
It's inevitable that his devoted fans (like that Bueno user on here) will pin down any success we might have to him and it'll be 20% Mourinho work, 80% van Gaal genius to them. He's lucky in that when he fecked up at Barcelona and Bayern both clubs were big enough to quickly recover so people somehow associate the period after van Gaal with success and come to conclusion it must have been partly because of him. It'll be the same at United.
He hasn't laid any foundations either. Two players he gave chances to who might feature a bit this season (Rashford and Fosu-Mensah) broke through because of injury crisis and he should not get full credit like he does with players like Iniesta from his devoted fans. Blind and Martial were his best signings and could well be the only ones remaining in 2-3 years. Shaw too but he would have signed regardless. Schneiderlin might have a small chance of featuring a bit and that's about it. Terrible record.
It's inevitable that his devoted fans (like that Bueno user on here) will pin down any success we might have to him and it'll be 20% Mourinho work, 80% van Gaal genius to them. He's lucky in that when he fecked up at Barcelona and Bayern both clubs were big enough to quickly recover so people somehow associate the period after van Gaal with success and come to conclusion it must have been partly because of him. It'll be the same at United.
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Talk of missing the point. You clearly do not grasp the difference between identifying what positive things LVG left behind and blanket praise. Its also utterly puerile thinking to claim he deserves no credit for anything. All due to total amnesia about Moyes' reign, plus amnesia about the huge amount of selling LVG did when people moan about what he supposedly spent. If the dude was useless and left rubbish behind like some of you claim, they'd be no reason why Mourinho has only added 4 world class players to the squad to make it easily one of the best in the entire league.Bravo.
Had we been a 4th/5th place team, I'd applaud LVG; but like Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Juve - getting 5th place is sackable. At Real, h'd have been gone after the 1st season.
And lets not forget that he introduced the most boring football seen at OT, for the last few decades. It's funny how LVG supporters don't discuss this.
To spend more money than other team in the World, in the space of 18 months, then to get 5th place - lets applaud LVG for this shall we.
How much would he need to spend to get us 2nd place I wonder...£400M?
And if we wanted 1st place, he'd probably tell us that no amount of money could get MUFC to ever win the title again.
The truth is that he spent huge sums of a money and gave a poor return. Fans were bored. The results were poor. All round, he was poor and should've been sacked on January 1st 2016.
Exactly. It's bizarre! It's like deep down they really miss him and just to hang on to happy memories....whatever the feck they may be?
We need a thread for David Moyes. Mata and Fellaini, 4 games 4 wins. If that is not laying the foundation, then nothing is.
He didn't get the best out of those players though did he? Which is the first and foremost job any manager ought to do, not just in football.
I wanted LVG out in October last year. There was a thread that someone started which was complaining about how boring LVG was back then. I am not pro LVG but he did change a few things for the better. Most notably he gave the team a direction and style which the vast majority of us ended up hating but the team had a clear direction with respect to playing. Under Moyes we were lost, Moyes kept trying things without any real success. LVG also trimmed the squad back and in turn that meant we saw Rashford get a chance earlier than was expected. LVG also installed a camera system at training which some players hated but going forward will prove to be a massively useful training tool.
You simply want to twist anything so you can run LVG down, your comment about Mark Hughes indicates someone who has simplistic ideas with respect to football. The team looked completely different after 2 months and 7 games from Moyes efforts. Bring in a new manager and teams look different. Trouble with LVG was he played a dull style.
Let me repeat, I wanted LVG gone relatively early in the piece, was ecstatic when he finally got sacked. He steadied the ship in the first season after the awful Moyes left us without any discernible direction, he lost his way in the second season. However to completely disregard his efforts like you are doing is childish.
Wow, where to start with this??? You're not the man himself are you?? So you're going to credit van Gaal for installing a camera system. Feck's sake!
I think he was a terrible manager for the club, but his transfers were the least bad thing he did. Except for the Rojo/Nani deal, which was terrible all round.
Half our starting 11 pre date Van Gaal and Shaw was on his way regardless.
Pro LVG?
I'm anything but pro LVG, but is it impossible to have a nuanced view on some things? Funny how you fail to mention Martial and Shaw in that list, and besides. Schneiderlin is quality and it's to early to pass any final verdict on Rojo and Depay.Jose has brought in three players. Three influential players for sure, but the rest of the team he inherited for Van Gaal, and so far, we have looked pretty damn good. You make it sound like Van Gaal left us in complete disarray, which is just not true.
And i'll say it again. LVG deserved to be sacked, the fotball was shite, and the results was poor. But, he did win the FA cup, and he did leave a stronger squad than he inherited.
Seriously.... thats your reply. So your way to counter is to simply deflect by insult?.Wow, where to start with this??? You're not the man himself are you?? So you're going to credit van Gaal for installing a camera system. Feck's sake!
face it the truth is you hated him so much you cant see objectively. I wouldnt mind betting that if you go check old threads i was asking for LVG to be sacked long before you were. The difference between you and me is you have a simplistic and blinkered view, I dont.
I remember going to OT when Sexton was in charge and we all hated his football. He got sacked while on a pretty decent winning run. Any fan from those days despite hating his football also remembers that he was similar to LVG in that he steadied the ship. You are incapable of doing that because you lack depth in your thinking.
Hey saying this means you must be Pro LVG according to this guy....Pro LVG?
Jose has brought in three players. Three influential players for sure, but the rest of the team he inherited for Van Gaal, and so far, we have looked pretty damn good. You make it sound like Van Gaal left us in complete disarray, which is just not true.
And i'll say it again. LVG deserved to be sacked, the fotball was shite, and the results was poor. But, he did win the FA cup, and he did leave a stronger squad than he inherited.
Pro LVG?
Jose has brought in three players. Three influential players for sure, but the rest of the team he inherited for Van Gaal, and so far, we have looked pretty damn good. You make it sound like Van Gaal left us in complete disarray, which is just not true.
And i'll say it again. LVG deserved to be sacked, the fotball was shite, and the results was poor. But, he did win the FA cup, and he did leave a stronger squad than he inherited.
That's not what I'm implying. I'm just dismissing your assertion that leaving a stronger squad than he inherited is anything special. Like I said, that's what all managers do.
Blind and Martial were his two best purchases, reinventing Valencia as a RB, giving Smalling an opportunity to progress finally, Lingard to a lesser degree, giving shape and structure, cleared out a lot of underperforming players, umm thats about it for me.
One thing I do miss is his proactive defending style. I really liked that.
One thing I do miss is his proactive defending style. I really liked that.
Think we should just re-name this thread to "Why we still love and miss Louis van Gaal". People can then be more open about their undying love for him and reminisce about the good old days.
There are a few things i'd give LVG credit for. He signed Frank Hoek who turned DDG from a talented kid into a top keeper for the pl.
You can say that again.
Ddg was the PL goalkeeper of the year before even Moyes came along, let alone LvG... He's even better now but it's not surprising that a top goalkeeper at 22 years old improved between then and when he became 25. If anything the credit goes to Eric Steele and Chris Woods.
OK I will...
Think we should just re-name this thread to "Why we still love and miss Louis van Gaal". People can then be more open about their undying love for him and reminisce about the good old days.
Is this a WUM?
Ahh, you post-deleting bastard!OK I will...
Think we should just re-name this thread to "Why we still love and miss Louis van Gaal". People can then be more open about their undying love for him and reminisce about the good old days.
That's what I'm implying!Fergie left us in a big mess. I'm absolutely gobsmacked that anyone could say with any serious conviction that Sir Alex Ferguson, who won 13 of his last 20 PL campaigns left us "in a big mess".
Okay so the Moyes appointment didn't go so well, for whatever reason he was the one selected. Nothing can change history, just like nothing can really change the fact that Moyes completely gutted most of Sir Alex's backroom team in the process of compiling his own back-room staff. That was an obvious and blatant error but in truth; Which manager steps up to a club this big and doesn't bring in his own team? He can be sniped for making that error but the only way he could have side-stepped that pothole was to take SAF's hand up his backside like a puppet and get a crash course in how to manage at the top from SAF's trusted team of highly esteemed colleagues and subordinates. Is an aspiring manager who just won the lottery by being handed the keys to the Manchester United going to accept that type of "trainee-ship"? Or is he going to at least try to do it on his own? I don't really blame him for making the decision that he did, the club itself should probably have had the foresight to understand the way that SAF worked and how rich his delegate network had become in his latter years and veto the raft of backroom changes.
Anyway, that was Moyes. I only raise that point because it ties into my main point that I feel the foundations of Manchester United transcend LVG, Moyes and even Ferguson himself. Deep rooted within the club is a tradition, a history that stretches back to Munich and Busby. Out of that flaming wreckage (bless the Busby Babes who lost their lives) was born a strength and determination to rise again, that feeds through everything the club does from boardroom to center circle come kickoff through 90 minutes of football. Off the pitch and on. The last big transition phase that allowed the club to strengthen it's roots in the culture of England was the dawn of the PL. Sir Alex Ferguson happened to galvanize the name, ethos and power that this club had over the footballing landscape by being the benchmark with his management of the team. The biggest, the baddest, the strongest, most determined fighters and could they play football as well? Yes they could. Very very well. They had the will to keep going when there was nothing left in the tank and it was the ultimate team that was the living embodiment of the MUFC ethos drawn from Busby/Munich, syphoned through the years of tradition and culminated and fulfilled by the man himself Sir Alex. You don't get rid of this kind of aura overnight, that is purely why I don't really attribute the appointment of a manager who wasn't up to the task as the start of a nuclear winter. I think we would have had to go a decade or more of bad decisions before we could even get to the kind of "mess" and "disaster" level of a situation we were facing. (LVG included in this as well.)
Now make no mistake, I'll definitely preface this by saying that I have never really liked LVG even back as far as the mid 90s. So I can say without a doubt I am incredibly biased on the subject and his appointment filled me with complete contempt for the man, the manager. I had always predicted he'd do exactly what he would do, come into and completely ignore the main aspects that SAF had built. The ethos, the culture, the mentality that in my opinion was still there after Moyes' failure. I don't think Moyes had "destroyed" the club or left it in a mess, sure he made his own mess but I don't think LVG was the one to "clean it up", it was like he completely bulldozed the lot because one room had a mess in it.
He continuted through his reign to make decisions that were, in my opinion, at odds with the fundamental nature that SAF's legacy had built the club into the powerhouse that it was in the last two decades. He was a manager who came and tried to change what MUFC was, not tried to adapt to it's culture and take the club forward. That in my opinion was his biggest mistake, one he repeatedly did not try to fix in his entire tenure here.
Ultimately, I personally don't think anything he did will leave a "foundation", but some parts will leave a legacy, such as that FA cup win. That was massive for the club, massive. As much as I dislike the guy if I ever saw him in the street I'd shake his hand and say thank you for that FA cup it was incredible and made me feel as proud as I ever have been for United. But the style, the way we played, much of what he represented was just so un-MUFC for me, it was getting on my nerves and I was completely glad he was sacked in the end. I don't think I could have taken another season of it.
Jose was classy when he praised LVG, I think that showed serious character. But I feel Jose knows how to win this league, knows these conditions. Knows what our club is about and I already see "United" more than I ever have in the last three seasons. Like in that thread I made mention, I don't think Jose is creating "Jose's United" I think he is bringing United back to what it always was.
Fergie didnt leave us in a mess. But there were plenty of decisions to make and he left it to the new manager, also when it comes to the structure of the club. And that hurt us as well. The last years, we were not good, did not invest properly in the squad and as a result had too many old players
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