LVG's Legacy/Foundations

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LVG's legacy

-Arresting the decline Moyes sent the team into
-Getting rid of the deadwood
-Signing Martial, Blind
-Promoting Rashford
-Calling that Journo "fat man"
 
POF said:
Don't forget that Moyes signed Fellaini and Mata and played them in the same positions they play now. All hail King David Moyes. The true layer of foundations. If only they gave him the full 6 years.
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POF said:
Don't forget that Moyes signed Fellaini and Mata and played them in the same positions they play now. All hail King David Moyes. The true layer of foundations. If only they gave him the full 6 years.
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too dumb a post to deserve a decent reply.....
 
kumoli said:
But is not only one player, isn't it?
Look at the list that I posted before about youth players becoming first team players. You can easily say that he don't buy stars but create them. No one can take that away from him. For example, Puyol was about to be sold at Barca and LvG insisted to stay and make him first team player, rest is history.
Xavi and Iniesta, no one would ever think to play with this short, skinny guys. He promote them too, does he?
There are too many examples like that in his carrier.
If you like it or not, that's the fact.
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So? Madrid have won about 2 CL's in 4 years since Mourinho left, I don't see anybody talking of his foundations or him 'taking the credit'. Why does this apply to only LVG? LVG benfited a lot from Mata and Fellaini, shouldn't we be thanking Moyes too? Why do the good stuff only happen when he's sacked? Which manager in the world has won stuff only with his own set of players he bought. That whole rubbish about Xavi and Iniesta has been debunked time and time again last season when @ santiago kindercrazy brought it up again and again. He promoted good players he met at the club, worked with them for a while then got fired so? Even Moyes did that with Januzaj. Iniesta and Rashford didn't even work with him up to a year ffs.
LVG literally promoted all our youngsters last season because he sold off everyone, which was nice in a way, spent a lot of money on a lot of players too. Out of the youngsters he promoted one or 2 are good players, same for the ones he bought, is that such a special achievement? We had 29 shots on target yesterday, under LVG we went for a whole half several games to see even a shot on target. Why do clubs improve only when he leaves? Does this mean he would have done better than all these coaches that keep doing well after taking over from him? You guys are just weird with this shite
 
Jazz said:
Again you're misunderstanding. There are loads of different aspects to management - style of play is only one of them (which I think is what you're concentrating on) - that does not constitute what is meant by 'a foundation' as such - not when there are other aspects to attend to at the club.
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There's also the minor aspect of.. you know... where you finish on the league table after spending insane amounts of money?
 
Not looked at this for awhile but it's Still a hilarious thread.

Well done OP
 
Vato said:
There's also the minor aspect of.. you know... where you finish on the league table after spending insane amounts of money?
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That goes without saying. No one has disputed that - but that's still one aspect of the whole thing that we're discussing. At least that's my understanding of the thread.
 
Another strange thing is that the manager who follows up LVG has no problems to make Louis' foundations work while he himself fails at it miserably.

I guess they take a while to get going.
 
Womp said:
Thanks for Martial and TFM, thank feck he's out of the club for just about everything else.

Also, if it wasn't for such a big injury crisis he would have never played Rash IMO, Martial was set to start that game up front.
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There are a lot of managers who would have gone with putting Depay or playing another more experienced player out of position there instead of Rashford. Say what you want about Vangle, but he has an eye for talent, and doesn't shy away from bringing it.
He did that at Barca, he did it at Bayern.
I can see why folks weren't exactly pleased with his reign, but one should still be objective enough to see the merits of his work, which weren't *all* negative. That's just trying too hard.

Vato said:
Another strange thing is that the manager who follows up LVG has no problems to make Louis' foundations work while he himself fails at it miserably..
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Well, he took the foundations and splashed out 170million GBP in a single window on top of it. Small detail but worth mentioning.
 
kumoli said:
Because you read what you wanna read.
Moyes and even Fergi left us in a big mess. That's very different with LvG.
Martial, Rashford, Blind, Herrera, Shaw, Lingaard, TFM and even De Gea are still here because of LvG.
He brought top scout from Netherlands who is still at United and doeing fantastic job.
Academy reforms is a great thing he did.
Mourinho needed just 4 players in addition to make a winning team.
LvG always said that the next coach will be enjoying his work, true that.
How was Moyes better, remember the mess he left?
If Mourinho had to pickup the pieces from Moyes you want be seeing at the pitch now what we are seeing after LvG.
He deserves respect anyway. Rome was not built in one day and so MU either .
Only thing is that many are success supporters and give credit only by winning. If that was the case when Fergi started his name wouldt have so much greatness as he have now, if I remember it took him 3 years for tbe first success.
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Moyes and Fergie left us in a big mess... and van gaal left us with this solid foundation? Obviously you've just been van gaald.
 
WTF!! :eek: One of the worst threads in a long time! And it's managed to get to 5 pages??? To suggest that LVG left a legacy at United is dumb, considering that Jose intends to rip up those foundations and start from scratch. As for the Rashford card, c'mon give me a break!

Can't we just let this guy go and move on?? I have absolutely nothing to thank LVG for and the quicker he is forgotten the better.
 
Typical Caf. There's absolutely no middle ground when it comes to any form of discussion. LVG didn't leave any "legacy" as such, neither did he leave the club in disarray as the reactions in this thread would suggest. I don't get why people are so against giving the man any credit. When it comes to criticism all blame is laid firmly at his door but for any positive thing he achieved, there's a caveat somewhere that means he was essentially lucky. I've already read that we only won the FA cup because we didn't have to face any 'top team'. It's not just the pro LVG brigade resulting to revisionism:
Will Singh said:
We had become a laughing stock for our rival fans and smaller clubs were rubbing there hands playing at OT as easy 3 points.
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I mean really? Did you see our home record under LvG or are you confusing him with Moyes? I wouldn't blame you as people seem to have mixed the 2 together and have come out with Moyes as the better manager of the 2.
 
steve zizou said:
Typical Caf. There's absolutely no middle ground when it comes to any form of discussion. LVG didn't leave any "legacy" as such, neither did he leave the club in disarray as the reactions in this thread would suggest. I don't get why people are so against giving the man any credit. When it comes to criticism all blame is laid firmly at his door but for any positive thing he achieved, there's a caveat somewhere that means he was essentially lucky. I've already read that we only won the FA cup because we didn't have to face any 'top team'. It's not just the pro LVG brigade resulting to revisionism:

I mean really? Did you see our home record under LvG or are you confusing him with Moyes? I wouldn't blame you as people seem to have mixed the 2 together and have come out with Moyes as the better manager of the 2.
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Why should it be any different for van Gaal? We did better in the Champions League under Moyes than with van Gaal but no-one will give Moyes any credit for that. They were both shite and don't deserve any credit for anything.
 
shamans said:
Moyes and Fergie left us in a big mess... and van gaal left us with this solid foundation? Obviously you've just been van gaald.
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Moyes and Fergie left us in disarray, van Gaal left us with a decent, stable squad ready for our new manager. I'm sure most of the lads have learned a bunch of useful stuff from van Gaal and will use some of that well under Mourinho. Of course with how much spent you'd think we'd have more than just a decent squad ready for Mourinho, but at least we look somewhat capable now, unlike after Moyes' and Fergies reign. I never expected us to have to make that many signings under Mourinho but he's made some brilliant ones that look to have taken us from a good to a potentially top side without completely overhauling t.
 
Twigg said:
Moyes and Fergie left us in disarray, van Gaal left us with a decent, stable squad ready for our new manager. I'm sure most of the lads have learned a bunch of useful stuff from van Gaal and will use some of that well under Mourinho. Of course with how much spent you'd think we'd have more than just a decent squad ready for Mourinho, but at least we look somewhat capable now, unlike after Moyes' and Fergies reign. I never expected us to have to make that many signings under Mourinho but he's made some brilliant ones that look to have taken us from a good to a potentially top side without completely overhauling t.
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:lol:

Yeah the stuff that Mourinho said he intends to erase from the squad's memory and unlearn as soon as possible!!
 
dove said:
Funny, isn't it? :D Every time he fails (Barca, Bayern, Man Utd) and then the next manager after him starts winning stuff, LVG gets a lot of credit for laying foundations :D And it doesn't even matter that the next manager needs to scrap pretty much everything LVG has done and change everything completely :D
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I think no one is suggesting he is some kind of Samaritan who sacrifices himself so that his successor can reap the rewards, but there is no denying he left the team in a better state than when he arrived. He did some good transfers, and brought in plenty of promising players for the furure (Shaw, Martial) as well as promoting youngsters like Rashford.
 
RedPed said:
What is this useful stuff that van Gaal has supposedly taught the players?? Did you not see Mourinho's interviews when he first arrived?
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I don't know, it's just conjecture. I think you can learn useful stuff from even the most flawed people in life, and given van Gaal's history I'm sure there's a thing or two they'll keep on from him. I'm not insinuating that he's embedded his philosophy into their souls and it'll guide them to success through their careers or anything like that. Just that there were surely good things to come out of van Gaal's reign, hopefully some of which the players take and apply to themselves under Mourinho. Two years is a lot of time to train under someone so their experince and how they've developed under him won't immediately disappear under Mourinho. He'll have shaped them somewhat, in the same way that they've probably got little bits of Moyes' ideals in them too.

All I mean is while he didn't exactly lay great foundations it's not totally black or white either, it's not he either laid foundations or he didn't, I don't thnk it's ever that simple as every manager has different ideas. But I do think there are positives to be taken from the teams experience with him, whatecer those are.
 
Twigg said:
I don't know, it's just conjecture. I think you can learn useful stuff from even the most flawed people in life, and given van Gaal's history I'm sure there's a thing or two they'll keep on from him. I'm not insinuating that he's embedded his philosophy into their souls and it'll guide them to success through their careers or anything like that. Just that there were surely good things to come out of van Gaal's reign, hopefully some of which the players take and apply to themselves under Mourinho. Two years is a lot of time to train under someone so their experince and how they've developed under him won't immediately disappear under Mourinho. He'll have shaped them somewhat, in the same way that they've probably got little bits of Moyes' ideals in them too.

All I mean is while he didn't exactly lay great foundations it's not totally black or white either, it's not he either laid foundations or he didn't, I don't thnk it's ever that simple as every manager has different ideas. But I do think there are positives to be taken from the teams experience with him, whatecer those are.
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Fair point and yes they may have learned stuff but what they may have learned may not necessarily be constructive. That's why Mourinho said that after two years it's inevitable that the players would be programmed in a certain way but it will take time to undo that way of thinking, which he fully intends to do.
 
Bobcat said:
I think no one is suggesting he is some kind of Samaritan who sacrifices himself so that his successor can reap the rewards, but there is no denying he left the team in a better state than when he arrived. He did some good transfers, and brought in plenty of promising players for the furure (Shaw, Martial) as well as promoting youngsters like Rashford.
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So is Moyes going to get any credit for the Fellaini signing, considering he is now the best thing since sliced bread?
 
I think it was Balu who said at every club, LVG always also leaves behind a cult group of supporters who will try to put a positive spin on everything he did and will defend him to the death. I think that's happening now, poor idiots.
 
Angry smiley behind Darmian and Rojo but not Depay? Im confused. Silly thread
 
Seveneric said:
I think it was Balu who said at every club, LVG always also leaves behind a cult group of supporters who will try to put a positive spin on everything he did and will defend him to the death. I think that's happening now, poor idiots.
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Wouldn't say that's what's happening at all.

Thing that's happening is that some people are giving him a bit of credit for the few positive things he did. That's not an idiot's position, in fact I would say it's a sensible way to look at things regardless whether the negatives far outweigh the positives or not.

Not recognizing that he actually DID do some good things however is a blinkered, pessimistic view in my eyes.
 
RedPed said:
So is Moyes going to get any credit for the Fellaini signing, considering he is now the best thing since sliced bread?
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I guess you could say so, but other than signing him and Mata and promoting Januzaj he did very little worth mentioning. Did Van Gaal deserve to be sacked? Without a doubt, both the results and football on display was dreadful, but he did build some solid foundations in the team.
 
I think the funniest thing about this thread is that it was obvious, even when everything was up the shitter under LvG, that it would get made shortly after he went and things started looking up for us under a new manager.

It took 2 opening PL wins, though, that's mightily impressive.
 
Weather we like to admit it or not but If Martial and Rashford become great players over time, you can bet they will be singing LVGs praise. And thats what his legacy depends on..
 
RedStarUnited said:
Weather we like to admit it or not but If Martial and Rashford become great players over time, you can bet they will be singing LVGs praise. And thats what his legacy depends on..
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Why? You're saying that without LvG, two of the most talented young players we've had in many a year wouldn't become great players?

Martial was the most expensive teenager ever and likely would've been signed regardless of LvG, and probably would've played regardless of LvG. He basically forced himself into the side through his excellent sub appearances.

Rashford only played because every single other forward option we had at the time was injured/suspended.

Anyway bollocks to it, a season under LvG is not enough to say they were great players because of him, should it turn out that way.
 
Bobcat said:
I guess you could say so, but other than signing him and Mata and promoting Januzaj he did very little worth mentioning. Did Van Gaal deserve to be sacked? Without a doubt, both the results and football on display was dreadful, but he did build some solid foundations in the team.
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Um sorry, but no he did not.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Why? You're saying that without LvG, two of the most talented young players we've had in many a year wouldn't become great players?

Martial was the most expensive teenager ever and likely would've been signed regardless of LvG, and probably would've played regardless of LvG. He basically forced himself into the side through his excellent sub appearances.

Rashford only played because every single other forward option we had at the time was injured/suspended.

Anyway bollocks to it, a season under LvG is not enough to say they were great players because of him, should it turn out that way.
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I was speaking from the player's point of view. Same things could be said about the Barcelona/Ajax players he gave debuts to that went on to become football legends. Its about who trusted them to begin with. LVG could have vetoed the transfer of Martial and simply said he is too expensive. LVG carried on playing Rashford in the striker formation even when Rooney and other strikers came back fit. These are the things that us fans might go on to forget but the players themselves will never forget. So when Rashford is the all time top scorer in 2030 and gives an interview, and states that LVG was the most important manager in his career - Thats where his legacy will be.
 
RedStarUnited said:
I was speaking from the player's point of view. Same things could be said about the Barcelona/Ajax players he gave debuts to that went on to become football legends. Its about who trusted them to begin with. LVG could have vetoed the transfer of Martial and simply said he is too expensive. LVG carried on playing Rashford in the striker formation even when Rooney and other strikers came back fit. These are the things that us fans might go on to forget but the players themselves will never forget. So when Rashford is the all time top scorer in 2030 and gives an interview, and states that LVG was the most important manager in his career - Thats where his legacy will be.
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Some crystal ball you got there, does it give you the lottery numbers also? What happens if Rashford does not say LVG is the most important? Which is likely since most of his development will have happened under other managers (the youth coaches, the managers for the next few years especially).
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
LVG left us Rashford, Borthwick-Jackson, Blind, Lingard, Martial and Fosu-Mensah, took us from 7th and the brink of oblivion back into Europe, restored our ability to beat fellow big teams, revived the United careers of Valencia, Fellaini and Young, proved our club has not abandoned its youth and can still produce talent worth of our first team, then restarted our trophy winning
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Bravo. :wenger:

Had we been a 4th/5th place team, I'd applaud LVG; but like Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Juve - getting 5th place is sackable. At Real, h'd have been gone after the 1st season.
And lets not forget that he introduced the most boring football seen at OT, for the last few decades. It's funny how LVG supporters don't discuss this.

To spend more money than other team in the World, in the space of 18 months, then to get 5th place - lets applaud LVG for this shall we.
How much would he need to spend to get us 2nd place I wonder...£400M?
And if we wanted 1st place, he'd probably tell us that no amount of money could get MUFC to ever win the title again.

The truth is that he spent huge sums of a money and gave a poor return. Fans were bored. The results were poor. All round, he was poor and should've been sacked on January 1st 2016.
 
RedStarUnited said:
I was speaking from the player's point of view. Same things could be said about the Barcelona/Ajax players he gave debuts to that went on to become football legends.
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I don't care what he did for Ajax, 2 decades ago. I am not a Ajax fan.
I only care what he did for MUFC, so I analyse his performance for us.
And my analysis says that £250M spent and getting 5th place is absolutely dire. Winning the FA Cup? Didn't Wigan win this trophy and I'm sure they did not spend £250M.

RedStarUnited said:
LVG could have vetoed the transfer of Martial and simply said he is too expensive. LVG carried on playing Rashford in the striker formation even when Rooney and other strikers came back fit. These are the things that us fans might go on to forget but the players themselves will never forget. So when Rashford is the all time top scorer in 2030 and gives an interview, and states that LVG was the most important manager in his career - Thats where his legacy will be.
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I will admit that Martial was played only because of LVG. Yes.
But Rashford? He was brought in, only because we had no other striker available. Martial got injured 15 minutes before the start of the match. LVG simply had no other choice but to use Rashford.
 
sunama said:
I will admit that Martial was played only because of LVG. Yes.
But Rashford? He was brought in, only because we had no other striker available. Martial got injured 15 minutes before the start of the match. LVG simply had no other choice but to use Rashford.
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For that game yes, but I think Rashford went on to start all the remaining games after that. You can say 'well he was that good, he couldnt drop him' but LVG made a lot of silly decisions that I wouldn't have been surprised if he dropped him.

JustAFan said:
Some crystal ball you got there, does it give you the lottery numbers also? What happens if Rashford does not say LVG is the most important? Which is likely since most of his development will have happened under other managers (the youth coaches, the managers for the next few years especially).
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Its not crystal ball, its judging by past experience of all the other top players who said LVG was important to them. Rashford might get better under different managers, but he won't forget who gave him the actual chance. Xavi and Valdez are not legends because of LVGs work, but they still think very highly of him because of the chance he gave them very early on. Same with Thomas Muller etc.
 
Really don't get this LvG love fest going on. He was crap with us, that is why we have Jose now and not him. It's not like he saw out the end of his contract and retired, he was fired and for a good reason.
 
You could argue Moyes made more important signings for Mourinho than LVG. If you don't count shaw and Herrera that is.
 
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