Might just be yes..
LVG's Legacy/Foundations
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Rashford and Blind at CB.
Forgot about Blind! And didn't cost us a lot either.
I hope this thread doesn't get bumped after every win.
29 goal attempts is sooo Van Gaal
LvG does this at every club. He nurtures greatness for the future while he sacrifices himself with poor results. The man always looks ahead. He has the vision of Jesus Christ himself.
Numerous managers have benefited from LvG's genius masterplan and hundreds of players would be playing in China right now if it weren't for LvG giving them chances.
We would have had 3 shots on goal today if it weren't for LvG. Mourinho really should be paying half of his salary to LvG plus a nice bonus after each win. LvG taught all our players how to pass properly and keep possession. Look at Mourinho's previous teams. The guy doesn't know how to teach his players to pass.
On that note, we also have a certain David Moyes to thank. Who signed the Broccoli haired man bossing the midfield right now? Moyes knew that he would eventually become good and put up with the fans' criticism while he wasn't playing well. Everything has a process and the fact that he's in good form right now has everything to do with David Moyes and not Jose Mourinho. Herrera and Shaw were also pursued by Moyes before they were officially signed. That is fecking brilliant.
It's all about the philosophy. It's all about the process. If we had kept LvG for another few years, we would've been an unstoppable force by 20200. The fact that the team is playing much better since the previous manager's departure again means that the credit goes to the previous manager. It's 1+1=2. It's not rocket science.
/s
Ok, the guy spent a massive amount of money and led us an extremely underwhelming CL campaign while managing to land us out of top 4 in what was probably the least competitive Premier League in long time.
Numerous managers have benefited from LvG's genius masterplan and hundreds of players would be playing in China right now if it weren't for LvG giving them chances.
We would have had 3 shots on goal today if it weren't for LvG. Mourinho really should be paying half of his salary to LvG plus a nice bonus after each win. LvG taught all our players how to pass properly and keep possession. Look at Mourinho's previous teams. The guy doesn't know how to teach his players to pass.
On that note, we also have a certain David Moyes to thank. Who signed the Broccoli haired man bossing the midfield right now? Moyes knew that he would eventually become good and put up with the fans' criticism while he wasn't playing well. Everything has a process and the fact that he's in good form right now has everything to do with David Moyes and not Jose Mourinho. Herrera and Shaw were also pursued by Moyes before they were officially signed. That is fecking brilliant.
It's all about the philosophy. It's all about the process. If we had kept LvG for another few years, we would've been an unstoppable force by 20200. The fact that the team is playing much better since the previous manager's departure again means that the credit goes to the previous manager. It's 1+1=2. It's not rocket science.
/s
Ok, the guy spent a massive amount of money and led us an extremely underwhelming CL campaign while managing to land us out of top 4 in what was probably the least competitive Premier League in long time.
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#betterthanmoyes
So disrespectful how some posters treat LvG. Results and way of playing where no good, period, but:
He left MU with pretty good young players, reform the academy. LVG was first person in the morning and last in the evening to leave Carrington. He watched many games from the youth just to see which ones can he promote. It's realy bad thing to say about him that he played the youth just because of injuries in the first team.
I even not gonna make a list of young players that he promote with Ajax.
At Barca he give debuts to Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Gabri, Valdes. All of them stayed very long time in tbe first team.
AZ - he won the championship.
Bayern - Toni Kroos, Muller, Alaba, Basti was placed as midfielder instead of left winger. In his first year he almost won the triple.
This guy should be respected even he did not had big success with MU, at least he left with dignity and he left us with pretty good young players that MU will have a joy for many years to come, something that you can't say about last season with Fergi or Moyes.
The bold part is the only thing you mentioned regarding his stay at Man United. How is that different from what Moyes has done at United? Should we respect Moyes too now?
LVG was even worse than Moyes. At least Moyes said I don't know what I can do to win anymore. LVG kept us thinking something was around the corner.
Unbelievable how people can still paint the LVG shitshow as something positive. He gets sacked repeatedly, he alienates players, he plays shit football - a fraud with a lethal combination of arrogance and incompetence yet somehow perceived to be successful because he gave Xavi his debut.
I suppose it's just a reflection of a society that values confidence over competence and appearance over substance.
I suppose it's just a reflection of a society that values confidence over competence and appearance over substance.
Because you read what you wanna read.
Moyes and even Fergi left us in a big mess. That's very different with LvG.
Martial, Rashford, Blind, Herrera, Shaw, Lingaard, TFM and even De Gea are still here because of LvG.
He brought top scout from Netherlands who is still at United and doeing fantastic job.
Academy reforms is a great thing he did.
Mourinho needed just 4 players in addition to make a winning team.
LvG always said that the next coach will be enjoying his work, true that.
How was Moyes better, remember the mess he left?
If Mourinho had to pickup the pieces from Moyes you want be seeing at the pitch now what we are seeing after LvG.
He deserves respect anyway. Rome was not built in one day and so MU either .
Only thing is that many are success supporters and give credit only by winning. If that was the case when Fergi started his name wouldt have so much greatness as he have now, if I remember it took him 3 years for tbe first success.
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Fergie really left us in a big mess. Leaving a title winning squad behind. I cannot imagine we gave him a statue and named a stand after him.
We should just rename OT after LVG. Whatever future success we will have be due to the visionary called LVG.
I think people are forgetting a few things here. We should give LvG credit for introducing Rashford, Fosu-Mensah, Borthwick-Jackson who all have great potential. Establishing Chris Smalling as a starting player having been shoved around at RB under Moyes. Being the first manager to give Lingard a chance. Having the cojones to sign Martial. Converting Blind to CB when the caf universally shat on it last pre season. Winning the FA cup.
Finally I think it's forgotten how much of a shambles we were under Moyes. LvG for me brought some organisation and at least a blueprint how to play. It might have been flawed possession football but much better than Moyes's 4-4-2 get to the byline then maybe sub on Hernandez tactics. Louis restored some pride and fight to the team. We won at Liverpool and at City in the league last season. We fecking beat Arsenal with half a team. These games under Moyes we'd lost in the first ten minutes and got battered. We won a FA cup with ten men in extra time. Restoring that spirit is something not to underestimated.
Finally I think it's forgotten how much of a shambles we were under Moyes. LvG for me brought some organisation and at least a blueprint how to play. It might have been flawed possession football but much better than Moyes's 4-4-2 get to the byline then maybe sub on Hernandez tactics. Louis restored some pride and fight to the team. We won at Liverpool and at City in the league last season. We fecking beat Arsenal with half a team. These games under Moyes we'd lost in the first ten minutes and got battered. We won a FA cup with ten men in extra time. Restoring that spirit is something not to underestimated.
When the next manager comes out and says that it would be much easier to have 20 brand new players than a squad that spent 2 years working under LVG it should put all talk about "foundations" to rest.
I now realise why clubs always seem to do well after he leaves. It's like that shit boss who made everyone's lives miserable for two years being replaced by someone who is more fun to work for. Everyone is just grateful at not having their souls crushed. Completely changes the mood around the place and morale/productivity automatically goes up.
All of this. Astonishing some believe he was worse than Moyes - that is unbelievable bias or worst.
Wish people would stop bashing the man for everything. I'm one of those who thought he needed to go taking in the overall situation at the club - but in no way do I agree with the vitriol on here.
But in fact, he didn't need 20 new players after all, did he? Easy to say anything when you haven't properly worked with the players as yet.
He didn't say he needed 20 new players and he had already worked with the players when he said it.
He said LVG's methods were so different to his that he would find it easier to implement what he wanted with 20 new players. How can that be a foundation for anyone?
I have no idea what your point is.
Your using what Jose said to justify that LVG didn't leave a foundation. The poster above gave a detailed summary of what LVG did regardless of what Jose said. The point is he may have thought it would be easier, but in fact he didn't need to because whatever LVG left for the most part has been good enough. Otherwise there would have been way more outgoings, just the same as what happened during LVG's first year.
Good enough for what? To win 4 games?
The "foundations" that LVG was supposed to leave were a style of play that would be the new direction for the club. Anyone who watches United now can clearly see that the current style is about as different as you can possibly get from LVG's.
What foundations do you think he has left that are benefitting the current squad?
Why give him credit for that? Isn't that to be expected of the manager?
That's not what I understand by foundations. The post I agreed with above clearly explains what I understand from about foundation - just scroll up and you can read it.
Yes the style of play didn't work for us, but that doesn't mean nothing he did wasn't right. You just need to have a balance here instead of bashing him because his style of play was boring. That's all I'm saying.
You quoted my post, not vice versa. I wasn't bashing him. LVG was certainly better than Moyes and did some good things.
But he deserves no credit at all for the changes in the current team. It's only 4 games so there is no guarantee this will last. But this team looks like a United side again and that has nothing to do with LVG.
Can anybody name me another manager who receives credit for laying foundations/legacies for success their former clubs enjoy after that manager departs/
Again you're misunderstanding. There are loads of different aspects to management - style of play is only one of them (which I think is what you're concentrating on) - that does not constitute what is meant by 'a foundation' as such - not when there are other aspects to attend to at the club.
As for your post - you misunderstand again - I said @Eugenius posted a summary of what he did which I agreed with - that is the post I suggested you look at when you asked me about what LVG has left in place.
Anyway, we agree to disagree and leave it there.
Santiago Kineridiot, wasnt that him
yes!Funny, isn't it?
Every time he fails (Barca, Bayern, Man Utd) and then the next manager after him starts winning stuff, LVG gets a lot of credit for laying foundations And it doesn't even matter that the next manager needs to scrap pretty much everything LVG has done and change everything completely Any coach who takes over a club, especially a big club like United, Barca, Bayern etc, will most likely take over a team already filled with good players he can improve on. But for some weird reason, a coach who takes over an LVG team has to come with his own 11 players, or else his any success he achieves will be down to LVG's foundations. As long as even one player LVG bought or promoted is in the team, he has to 'take the credit'. It's a strange rule that applies to only LVG
also I'm wondering how Valencia at right back, Blind on center defence, Fellaini in midfield plus Martial and Mata out wide have 'nothing to do with LVG'
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But is not only one player, isn't it?
Look at the list that I posted before about youth players becoming first team players. You can easily say that he don't buy stars but create them. No one can take that away from him. For example, Puyol was about to be sold at Barca and LvG insisted to stay and make him first team player, rest is history.
Xavi and Iniesta, no one would ever think to play with this short, skinny guys. He promote them too, does he?
There are too many examples like that in his carrier.
If you like it or not, that's the fact.
LVG got lucky that he was forced to play Rashford, and that Rashford grabbed his chance so well. Everything else he did was a mess. Sure, he brought in a few decent players, but anyone splashing the amount of money he did would get that right just as often. Jose has signed 4 so far and they are all absolutely perfect for us. Di Maria could have been a completely different story for us if he was managed by someone like Mourinho, who appreciates that some players need free reign to play their game, rather than a boring, rigid dinosaur like Louis. Players like Fellaini, who were deemed not good enough, are already showing that LVG failed to get the best from what he had to work with. The only "legacy" that LVG left is the awful playing system that Mourinho says will take a while to coach out of the players who were unlucky enough to have it drilled into them for the past 2 seasons.
Yup.
When we're sweeping up the trophies I expect the praise in retrospect towards lvg to be more forthcoming.
Im 100 sure all that foundation talk is just a myth. LVG takes over big teams with good players and has them play badly/boring, the next manager who takes over instantly has them play better/more entertaining because the quality of players is already there. Then LVG fans say its his foundation that is showing and not the skills of the new manager.
LVG left us Rashford, Borthwick-Jackson, Blind, Lingard, Martial and Fosu-Mensah, took us from 7th and the brink of oblivion back into Europe, restored our ability to beat fellow big teams, revived the United careers of Valencia, Fellaini and Young, proved our club has not abandoned its youth and can still produce talent worth of our first team, then restarted our trophy winning
Not misunderstanding in the slightest. You mentioned I was "bashing" LVG.
Read my post that you quoted initially and show me where I said anything of the sort. The only way I thought you could have read it that way is if you thought I was replying to you, which I wasn't.
The points in the post you reference above are all positives from LVG's reign but they mean very little to the next manager. I don't believe any of them are major cornerstones around which Mourinho will build his United side.
and if you believe LVG was anywhere near as bad as Moyes, you either suffer from extreme amnesia or you are just naturally stupid.
Don't forget that Moyes signed Fellaini and Mata and played them in the same positions they play now. All hail King David Moyes. The true layer of foundations. If only they gave him the full 6 years.
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