LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[Amethyst]

Yeah, maybe I was naive to believe that gobbledygook about how United aren't short term because we're actually more short term than most clubs.

I think Ferguson staying for so long has distorted people's view. You don't just keep a manager for the sake of it because 'we're not a sacking club'. Van Gaal did the minimum to keep his job last season and though we made a good start this year, the results and play I listed since October indicate we're either stagnating or on a downward slope. I myself would still give him time to turn it round but make no mistake we have to improve quickly and I would not be leaving it until we're mathematically out of contention like we did with Moyes.

The money spent is such a pointless measure; if we have ambitions of getting to the top again, we're going to bring in top players who are naturally expensive. Plus, we're the richest club in the world. One look at the transfer thread shows how that works out for us. If people are complaining about the money, how many of the players brought in during the last 2 years would you sell? Except for Rojo, Falcao and Valdes, each of those buys either had solid logic behind them or are one of our best players now. If Ancelotti comes in tomorrow, how many of Herrera, Shaw, Blind, Rojo, Valdes, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger et al would he sell? Rojo, at a stretch.

It's not so much the amount of money spent (that's the world we're in these days) as it is the lack of improvement given how many players van Gaal has recruited. If van Gaal has picked these players because they're right for his 'philosophy', then why are the performances so bang average? Why have we failed to get out of a relatively easy group in Europe? Why have we been knocked by lower league opposition in the League Cup again? It's not good enough.

Again, I'm not saying van Gaal is blameless there, selling Hernandez and loaning Januzaj were poor decisions. The same Rafael who spent a majority of the season on the treatment table? I love Rafa, but he was a crock. Evans, who was a liability almost every game he played last season. We have 6 players who can play as fullback. How many more do we need? All I'm saying is this: while van Gaal has made mistakes, the rational thing to do before taking a drastic step is to give the man every opportunity to prove that he can't cut it. Especially when he fulfilled expectations last season.

Personally I had no problem selling Rafael because he was never fit and we bought Darmian, but to not buy a centre back when we sold Evans was madness considering the history of injury problems Jones and to a lesser extent Smalling have got. The bottom line is that van Gaal reduced the squad further in the summer despite all the injury problems we had in 14/15 and an extra competition to play in. It makes no sense to do that whatsoever and I'm not interested in how many players Arsenal have got or what the squad looked like in 12/13, it's irrelevant to this season with these players.

 

[Ixion]

2 ) How can you just dismiss Giggs right away and blindly suggest LVG would be better than him. Managers less experienced than Giggs have ended up doing well.

Giggs has done literally nothing to deserve the job. Moyes didn't deserve to be considered and we're making the same mistake again but even worse.

 

[Tyrion]

Another constant. He is leaving a platform for the next manager to achieve greatness.

All the kids played except Martial and Memphis had been here prior to his coming to the club. Even they seem to be regressing.

Shaw was scouted by the club before he arrived.

I struggled to get that too. How does playing crap, negative football help the younger players improve? Besides, he seems pretty quick to haul off the younger players if they make mistakes (McNair).

 

[bleedred]

Probably because of what all Van Gaal has achieved in management and feck all Giggs has achieved in management.

Managers less experienced than Giggs? What is that, managers in charge for 0 to 3 games?

Giggs has done literally nothing to deserve the job. Moyes didn't deserve to be considered and we're making the same mistake again but even worse.

I am not here claiming that he should be our permanent manager. But for people saying that there is no point sacking LVG if we cant get Pep or Ancelotti, why not try Giggs. It cant get any worse than the results this season can it. Its worth a gamble.

 

[Spock]

What would be your criteria for that. Just curious because many(including me) have felt that we have reached that stage.

Great question.

We're in fourth place now, a glass you can look at as either half empty or half full. I look at it as half empty, considering the pedigree of the players we brought in this summer.

If we slide to 5th or 6th and stay there for a month or two we're in serious trouble. Either Tottenham or Liverpool will find their feet and you can't really rule out Everton coming on strong in the second half of the season. And if Leicester City turn over Chelsea you'd have to start looking at them as a near-lock for a top four finish at worst.

One can only state the obvious -- we need to start beating sides that we're supposed to be beat and that includes Norwich and Stoke. I get that on any given day anyone can beat anyone but it shouldn't be the case that on every given day that we either scrape out a draw or get beaten.

So I'm not there quite yet, as I acknowledge that we've suffered a ridiculous number of injuries and that key players -- Rooney and Memphis in particular -- just haven't shown up for work this season. Maybe that's all the manager's fault but I really doubt it.

Herrera and a few others are supposed to be back the Norwich. If we field a starting XI that I believe we can field v Norwich and we still get punked, THAT has to be it for Louis Van Gaal.

But let's pray to God that we have Ancelotti lined up as his successor as I just don't believe Giggs is anywhere close to being ready to take over as manager, interim or permanent. I'd really like to wait until the summer to replace and upgrade on Van Gaal and I have some ideas on who that should be (not Guardiola). Another thread for another day, perhaps.

 

[redindian1987]

I don't even think we were as bad to watch as this season last season. We were often a bit boring and quite unimaginative, but we were certainly scoring more often. Plus, we had bonuses like Di Maria looking like a superb addition when he came in, and our spell in the second half of the season when we played some excellent football. Many of our attack-minded players were better last season than this year: Carrick, Rooney, and even the more maligned players like Fellaini and Young found a bit of form.

How true it is about people having short memories. This time last year, people were moaning about the exact same things. Granted we may have scored more goals, but the moaning was on the same grounds.

1) Achieving it in the past doesnt mean it will happen again.

2 ) How can you just dismiss Giggs right away and blindly suggest LVG would be better than him. Managers less experienced than Giggs have ended up doing well.

3) Chelsea 2007/8, Chelsea 2011/12. Chelsea 2013/14. Spurs 2007/8. Liverpool 2011/12.

4) Yes, winning the league.

1) Sure, I may have achieved my targets last year but those skills, experiences, etc., magically vanished away leaving me rudderless. I might as well hand it in this year.

2) Because facts dictate that he will be overwhelmed, just like he was last time. This is United, not Brighton and Hove Albion. Managing United is unlike managing any other team, except the likes of Real, Barca and Bayern.

3) Won nothing, lucked out getting Hiddink, lucked out with the flukiest win in history and seriously? Spurs and Liverpool? The Olympic feat of winning the League Cup?

4) So a 20 year old leading the line was supposed to win us the league. Fantastic.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I am not here claiming that he should be our permanent manager. But for people saying that there is no point sacking LVG if we cant get Pep or Ancelotti, why not try Giggs. It cant get any worse than the results this season can it. Its worth a gamble.

Of course it can get worse. If you managed United the players would refuse to play. In other situations, we could finish 8th. The idea that this is the worst it can get is misplaced. Leaving the team to a novice is not worth the gamble.

 

[Question234]

I think Memphis is getting there spock, slowly but he's improved from his earlier showings.

 

[bleedred]

Great question.

We're in fourth place now, a glass you can look at as either half empty or half full. I look at it as half empty, considering the pedigree of the players we brought in this summer.

If we slide to 5th or 6th and stay there for a month or two we're in serious trouble. Either Tottenham or Liverpool will find their feet and you can't really rule out Everton coming on strong in the second half of the season. And if Leicester City turn over Chelsea you'd have to start looking at them as a near-lock for a top four finish at worst.

One can only state the obvious -- we need to start beating sides that we're supposed to be beat and that includes Norwich and Stoke. I get that on any given day anyone can beat anyone but it shouldn't be the case that on every given day that we either scrape out a draw or get beaten.

So I'm not there quite yet, as I acknowledge that we've suffered a ridiculous number of injuries and that key players -- Rooney and Memphis in particular -- just haven't shown up for work this season. Maybe that's all the manager's fault but I really doubt it.

Herrera and a few others are supposed to be back the Norwich. If we field a starting XI that I believe we can field v Norwich and we still get punked, THAT has to be it for Louis Van Gaal.

But let's pray to God that we have Ancelotti lined up as his successor as I just don't believe Giggs is anywhere close to being ready to take over as manager, interim or permanent. I'd really like to wait until the summer to replace and upgrade on Van Gaal and I have some ideas on who that should be (not Guardiola). Another thread for another day, perhaps.

You still havent answered my question!!!!

 

[Tyrion]

I am not here claiming that he should be our permanent manager. But for people saying that there is no point sacking LVG if we cant get Pep or Ancelotti, why not try Giggs. It cant get any worse than the results this season can it. Its worth a gamble.

It can always get worse. At least we seem to be heading for top 4 (just).

 

[Fully Fledged]

I think Ferguson staying for so long has distorted people's view. You don't just keep a manager for the sake of it because 'we're not a sacking club'. Van Gaal did the minimum to keep his job last season and though we made a good start this year, the results and play I listed since October indicate we're either stagnating or on a downward slope. I myself would still give him time to turn it round but make no mistake we have to improve quickly and I would not be leaving it until we're mathematically out of contention like we did with Moyes.

I think Moyes was given time until we went out of the Champions League then the writing was on the wall. I think it was already plain that we would qualify through the league places.

So if we are going off the same standards bye bye LVG.

I'd still give him until after the Christmas period though to see if he can turn around our league form.

Oh and if LVG is using COC progression to prove that the team has improved Moyes got us to the semi-final.

 

[bleedred]

1) Sure, I may have achieved my targets last year but those skills, experiences, etc., magically vanished away leaving me rudderless. I might as well hand it in this year.

2) Because facts dictate that he will be overwhelmed, just like he was last time. This is United, not Brighton and Hove Albion. Managing United is unlike managing any other team, except the likes of Real, Barca and Bayern.

3) Won nothing, lucked out getting Hiddink, lucked out with the flukiest win in history and seriously? Spurs and Liverpool? The Olympic feat of winning the League Cup?

4) So a 20 year old leading the line was supposed to win us the league. Fantastic.

1) Rijkard once won the CL and La liga. Where is he now?

2) When the season was already over and nothing to play for.

3) You asked for an example and I gave you several and you dismiss everything as luck. Winning the league cup is an acheivement. How many did LVG acheive in the last two years??

4) Again , whose fault is that?. We should be aiming for the league every season and the squad assembled accordingly. So thats not an excuse.

 

[bleedred]

Of course it can get worse. If you managed United the players would refuse to play. In other situations, we could finish 8th. The idea that this is the worst it can get is misplaced. Leaving the team to a novice is not worth the gamble.

So we wait till we go out of top 4 like we did with Moyes and do feck all about it?

Edit: RDM,Monk,MP says Hello!!!

 

[JPRouve]

You still havent answered my question!!!!

Because Van gaal is a knowledgeable football man and if he really was looking for answers to our problems he would find them, so we can still hope that he puts his pride aside and do what he is supposed to do, which is build a gameplan for his players.
But at the same time, a manager of Man Utd who managed the prodigy to be at 6 points of Leicester City(if Leicester win tonight) after 16 games, should be fired.

So the answer is hope and faith.

 

[Andy_Cole]

So we wait till we go out of top 4 like we did with Moyes and do feck all about it?

It's the United way to give the manager time. Or something.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

3) Won nothing, lucked out getting Hiddink, lucked out with the flukiest win in history and seriously? Spurs and Liverpool? The Olympic feat of winning the League Cup?
4) So a 20 year old leading the line was supposed to win us the league. Fantastic.

Funny you downplay a league cup win and a CL win when we are already eliminated from both competitions. Plus whose idea was it to rely on a 20 year old to lead the line.

 

[Cheesy]

How true it is about people having short memories. This time last year, people were moaning about the exact same things. Granted we may have scored more goals, but the moaning was on the same grounds.

I'm not denying that. There were plenty of similar complaints: we were far from brilliant, and LVG's dull style of play had already been exacted to a certain extent. I just think it appears to have gotten progressively worse. Certainly, the array of 0-0's weren't as bad then as they are now.

 

[GeneralGattuso]

If some of us are so sure of the future, so confident in the ability to predict the future so as to be sure that we won't go far in the cup or make top 4, then I owe my mother an explanation when I shouted at her that nobody could see the future and to not waste my time with palmistry. My point is, we don't know. Last season we were all scared about what would happen in those 6 games in March/April (?). We all know what happened. We could go on a 22 game run to win the league, who knows what might happen? We ought to wait for something to occur if we're going to take such a drastic step.

So you want us to continue doing what we are doing - 3 wins in 12 and expect us to finish in the top 4? That's not top 4 form, that's bottom of the table form. Change is required, LVG must change his approach to games in the league or the board must change manager. Wayne Rooney might score 40 goals in the second half of the season but I'm willing to bet he won't!

 

[Amethyst]

So you want us to continue doing what we are doing - 3 wins in 12 and expect us to finish in the top 4? That's not top 4 form, that's bottom of the table form. Change is required, LVG must change his approach to games in the league or the board must change manager. Wayne Rooney might score 40 goals in the second half of the season but I'm willing to bet he won't!

The form's not even that good, see my previous post a couple of pages back. It's 3 in 14 with no wins in the last 5 all competitions.

Edit: Ignore me it is 3 in 12.

 

[Fully Fledged]

If some of us are so sure of the future, so confident in the ability to predict the future so as to be sure that we won't go far in the cup or make top 4, then I owe my mother an explanation when I shouted at her that nobody could see the future and to not waste my time with palmistry. My point is, we don't know. Last season we were all scared about what would happen in those 6 games in March/April (?). We all know what happened. We could go on a 22 game run to win the league, who knows what might happen? We ought to wait for something to occur if we're going to take such a drastic step.

People have made fortunes out of predicting trends as long as there has been a stock market. Some stock are harder to predict while others are like adding 1+1 and getting 2. It is obvious that unless LVG has a complete rethink about our approach to games that we will continue to struggle scoring goals and therefore continue to struggle at compiling wins.

There is nothing supernatural about seeing this.

 

[Spoony]

The form's not even that good, see my previous post a couple of pages back. It's 3 in 14 with no wins in the 5 all competitions.

I think he'll be gone cum Feb.

We should do a poll predicting how long he'll last.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So we wait till we go out of top 4 like we did with Moyes and do feck all about it?

Edit: RDM,Monk,MP says Hello!!!

No, we wait for him to get top 4 and stop panicking and turning to managerial nobodies.

Monk managed Swansea which involves a lot less pressure than managing United, and they didn't have someone with the pedigree of LVG in charge.

What position were Chelsea when Di Matteo took charge btw? Were they 4 points off the leaders?

 

[JPRouve]

No, we wait for him to get top 4 and stop panicking and turning to managerial nobodies.

Monk managed Swansea which involves a lot less pressure than managing United, and they didn't have someone with the pedigree of LVG in charge.

What position were Chelsea when Di Matteo took charge btw? Were they 4 points off the leaders?

They were 3 points from the 4th place but 20pts from 1st.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They were 3 points from the 4th place but 20pts from 1st.

There you go.

And cheers for the bonus-eye test. Still got it.

 

[redindian1987]

The money thing isn't pointless, though. This is the sort of shit we've often laughed at Chelsea and City for; spending lots and lots of money, but not adding enough genuine quality and building a cohesive team. If you're one of the biggest spenders in world football, then you should really be competing for your domestic league title at the very least.

Did I ever think we were in a genuine position to compete for the title? No, not really. I'm shocked at Chelsea's fall, and unsure what to make of City, but the problem is that if we're going to be massive spenders, then we should be expecting some actual results to come from it. Considering the current lack of quality in the league, in that there is no obvious, runaway contender, we really should be in contention for the title. Despite that though, we don't look like it. 4 points off top, we currently look like one of those mid-table sides who have based their side on being tight defensively and hard to beat, while managing to grind out some results with a possession based style of play. It's dreadful to watch, and even worse when it's considered that we'll probably struggle to maintain our competition for the title if we continue like this, or someone actually emerges as a credible, dominant winner.

Who knows, perhaps we're just especially shit right now and we'll begin to look like contenders, but I'm not seeing it. And for the money we're spending, it's not really good enough.

What you've ignored is the fact that some of the clubs which rival us in the money stakes play in the same league. Logically, there cannot be more than 1 club which spends heavily and wins the league. Plus, spending from 7th is not the same as spending when you're already among the top teams.

I don't agree that there isn't quality in the league, City in Europe is proof of that. They beat some good teams in their group. So if the same set of players drop points in the league, that doesn't mean the league is poor. If the league is as poor as you suggest, they should have been tonked.

 

[bleedred]

No, we wait for him to get top 4 and stop panicking and turning to managerial nobodies.

Monk managed Swansea which involves a lot less pressure than managing United, and they didn't have someone with the pedigree of LVG in charge.

What position were Chelsea when Di Matteo took charge btw? Were they 4 points off the leaders?

What if he doesn't?. We will do the same think as with Moyes and sack him when something could be salvaged from the season.

I can understand your sentiment that you don't want him sacked now, but are you completely against the idea of him sacked for Giggs, even if we lose, say our next 3-4 games??

Please dont bring up the 4 points off the top. It has been argued over and over.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What if he doesn't?. We will do the same think as with Moyes and sack him when something could be salvaged from the season.

I can understand your sentiment that you don't want him sacked now, but are you completely against the idea of him sacked for Giggs, even if we lose, say our next 3-4 games??

Please dont bring up the 4 points off the top. It has been argued over and over.

What if he doesn't? What if Giggs gets us relegated? Anything can happen in life.

I will keep bringing up the 4 points off thing if you bring up teams that sacked their manager when they were 20 points off 1st.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Monk managed Swansea which involves a lot less pressure than managing United, and they didn't have someone with the pedigree of LVG in charge.

It was his first ever managerial job and at the club he joined a decade earlier when they were in League Two, when he took over Swansea were at risk of being relegated. The pressure will have been different certainly, but a lot less, i doubt it.

 

[Ixion]

I can understand your sentiment that you don't want him sacked now, but are you completely against the idea of him sacked for Giggs, even if we lose, say our next 3-4 games??

But why would we think promoting the assistant manager of our last 2.5 medicore seasons would dramatically change anything? Has Giggs contributed nothing in that time but has somehow learnt a lot?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It was his first ever managerial job and at the club he joined a decade earlier when they were in League Two, when he took over Swansea were at risk of being relegated. The pressure will have been different certainly, but a lot less? No.

Alright a different sort of pressure then. In any case, quite a different scenario. Plus, like the Di Matteo/Chelsea case, they were in a woeful situation, unlike us.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

If some of us are so sure of the future, so confident in the ability to predict the future so as to be sure that we won't go far in the cup or make top 4, then I owe my mother an explanation when I shouted at her that nobody could see the future and to not waste my time with palmistry. My point is, we don't know. Last season we were all scared about what would happen in those 6 games in March/April (?). We all know what happened. We could go on a 22 game run to win the league, who knows what might happen? We ought to wait for something to occur if we're going to take such a drastic step.

By that theory change would never happen, and people wouldn't ever get fired, because as you say we just never know if they'll turn things around, perhaps you were in the very small keep Moyes camp beacuse who knows what he'd have achieved next season.

Fact is we are now 18 months in to LvG's reign and other than a few brief moments he has just never convinced, LvG deserves everything he is getting atm due to the way he is playing, people would be a bit more forgiving if we were actually been entertained amidst all the average results, but he can't even do that.

Like I say I am happy to be proven wrong, but right now all I see is a mess been waited to be mopped up by whoever we bring in next.

 

[Cheesy]

What you've ignored is the fact that some of the clubs which rival us in the money stakes play in the same league. Logically, there cannot be more than 1 club which spends heavily and wins the league. Plus, spending from 7th is not the same as spending when you're already among the top teams.

I don't agree that there isn't quality in the league, City in Europe is proof of that. They beat some good teams in their group. So if the same set of players drop points in the league, that doesn't mean the league is poor. If the league is as poor as you suggest, they should have been tonked.

I'm not ignoring that at all: I recognise we've got big spenders around us. But irrespective of them, we should be able to build a good side, play some decent football, and compete. We're one of the biggest spenders in Europe, yet we're comfortably outside the top 10 teams in Europe right now.

I don't think the league is poor. It's just the weakest it's been for a considerable period of time. One team comfortably strolling through their group doesn't change that. If anything, it accentuates my point.

 

[bleedred]

But why would we think promoting the assistant manager of our last 2.5 medicore seasons would dramatically change anything? Has Giggs contributed nothing in that time but has somehow learnt a lot?

Because, I believe that LVG has lost the players already and there is no point keeping him and I cannot see the players playing for him anymore or the performances improving. Its creating a toxic atmosphere in the club, IMO.

So I believe a change in the management is required. Of course, like everyone else, I would like Ancelotti or someone with experience to take over. But it aint happening.

Am I expecting a dramatic change?. No?

Is it a gamble?. Yes. But so is leaving LVG on at the moment, with results not happening.

It is becoming very clear that LVG will not be here next summer, how do you think its going to impact the players. Why do they want to play for a manager who is not going to be there next season?

 

[redindian1987]

I think Ferguson staying for so long has distorted people's view. You don't just keep a manager for the sake of it because 'we're not a sacking club'. Van Gaal did the minimum to keep his job last season and though we made a good start this year, the results and play I listed since October indicate we're either stagnating or on a downward slope. I myself would still give him time to turn it round but make no mistake we have to improve quickly and I would not be leaving it until we're mathematically out of contention like we did with Moyes.

It's not so much the amount of money spent (that's the world we're in these days) as it is the lack of improvement given how many players van Gaal has recruited. If van Gaal has picked these players because they're right for his 'philosophy', then why are the performances so bang average? Why have we failed to get out of a relatively easy group in Europe? Why have we been knocked by lower league opposition in the League Cup again? It's not good enough.


Personally I had no problem selling Rafael because he was never fit and we bought Darmian, but to not buy a centre back when we sold Evans was madness considering the history of injury problems Jones and to a lesser extent Smalling have got. The bottom line is that van Gaal reduced the squad further in the summer despite all the injury problems we had in 14/15 and an extra competition to play in. It makes no sense to do that whatsoever and I'm not interested in how many players Arsenal have got or what the squad looked like in 12/13, it's irrelevant to this season with these players.

It's not only about sacking a manager, it's the attitude of the fans. You cannot spent 10 years going on about how the uniqueness of the club would come to the fore when the time came and not show those qualities once. One of the complaints against van Gaal is that he doesn't heed the traditions of this club. You cannot hark back to our traditions in one respect, demand conformity and then do a 360 when it comes to other things. Let's be consistent. If we spent ages talking about how the players and the manager would always expect unconditional support, with reasonable restrictions of course, we cannot simply ignore all of that just because it's looking a bit iffy. Imagine how long Sir Alex would have lasted in the present United. Certainly not 4 years without winning the league!

Because there is a distinct lack of threat upfront, and a lack of pace. We're underachieving because the football van Gaal wants us to play isn't as effective without pace in the side. We agree that this is on van Gaal. No need to revisit it. Come on, it' a cup game we lost on penalties. It's happened to us many times.

But of course it's relevant. If Sir Alex, with his time at United, knowledge of the league and the players saw the logic in having 4 central defenders, van Gaal was not wrong in sticking with what we had. Van Gaal recruited last year with 3-5-2 in mind so we had enough central defenders. Plus, defence isn't our problem. Again, injuries and United is something we've had for a long time. That stat about us from the 10/11 season.... Sir Alex approached that season with 23 players. Van Gaal has 22. This thing about van Gaal trimming the squad is a myth. Even if he did buy 2 more, what if those players got injured as well? What would we do then, talk about how he should have bought more?

 

[Amethyst]

What you've ignored is the fact that some of the clubs which rival us in the money stakes play in the same league. Logically, there cannot be more than 1 club which spends heavily and wins the league. Plus, spending from 7th is not the same as spending when you're already among the top teams.

I don't agree that there isn't quality in the league, City in Europe is proof of that. They beat some good teams in their group. So if the same set of players drop points in the league, that doesn't mean the league is poor. If the league is as poor as you suggest, they should have been tonked.

The squad that we had in 13/14 was not the seventh best squad in the league that year, just like Chelsea's isn't a squad that should be hovering above the relegation places now. You could argue that Ferguson's squad had flaws and was weaker than the side that won the Champions League but we won the title with that team and lost no key players, Moyes just made such as hash of things that that's where we ended up finishing.

 

[redindian1987]

It cant get any worse than the results this season can it. Its worth a gamble.

So you would rather take a gamble than stick with what you have, especially when the person you have has a proven track record? I'm sorry ,but that borders on reckless.

 

[Fully Fledged]

The squad that we had in 13/14 was not the seventh best squad in the league that year, just like Chelsea's isn't a squad that should be hovering above the relegation places now. You could argue that Ferguson's squad had flaws and was weaker than the side that won the Champions League but we won the title with that team and lost no key players, Moyes just made such as hash of things that that's where we ended up finishing.

The thing that gets me is that people bang on about how bad Moyes was on one hand then say that we can't expect anything more of LVG because he had a 7th place squad. Now what was to blame for us finishing 7th Moyes or the squad quality? Personally I think it was down to Moyes.

 

[bleedred]

So you would rather take a gamble than stick with what you have, especially when the person you have has a proven track record? I'm sorry ,but that borders on reckless.

That has got nothing to do in football. Where is Mourinho this season?

 

[bleedred]

But of course it's relevant. If Sir Alex, with his time at United, knowledge of the league and the players saw the logic in having 4 central defenders, van Gaal was not wrong in sticking with what we had. Van Gaal recruited last year with 3-5-2 in mind so we had enough central defenders. Plus, defence isn't our problem. Again, injuries and United is something we've had for a long time. That stat about us from the 10/11 season.... Sir Alex approached that season with 23 players. Van Gaal has 22. This thing about van Gaal trimming the squad is a myth. Even if he did buy 2 more, what if those players got injured as well? What would we do then, talk about how he should have bought more?

Are you sure, its that season. I count 28 players - hargreaves and GNev who retired. That's 26.

 

[Fully Fledged]

So you would rather take a gamble than stick with what you have, especially when the person you have has a proven track record? I'm sorry ,but that borders on reckless.

When a ship is sinking you are better off jumping into the sea than staying on board.