LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[Rezyuz]

And he largely talks nonsense, so there you go.

So you think it will take three seasons for a manager at our club, with unlimited resources, to actually get us playing well? Also, the reason we have been so open at the back the last two games is because of injuries. If LVG had his way, we would still be trying to bore teams into a 0-0 draw from the first whistle.

As for your point about the style of play during Fergie's last years, I don't think anyone would disagree that we were woeful. However, he got us the results. Right now, our results and our play is absolutely shite. After spending so much, and trimming the squad according to his wish, LVG has nowhere to hide. I cannot believe people are defending him here.

First off, whats the point of making short term fixes? This team needed a big overhaul and a lot of problems needed to be fixed. For christ sake most of our players still dont control the basics of football (passing accurate, controlling a ball, dribbling).

But do you honestly think that SAF would have achieved anything decent with that team and play style if he didnt have a ridiculous in form Van Persie?

The reason why I'm backing LVG is because in my opinion 90% of the losses comes down to individual errors instead of tactical mistakes. And unfortunately, in contrary to popular belief, LVG despite his budget cannot simply replace 11 players in 1 season.

 

[JPRouve]

First off, whats the point of making short term fixes? This team needed a big overhaul and a lot of problems needed to be fixed. For christ sake most of our players still dont control the basics of football (passing accurate, controlling a ball, dribbling).

But do you honestly think that SAF would have achieved anything decent with that team and play style if he didnt have a ridiculous in form Van Persie?

The reason why I'm backing LVG is because in my opinion 90% of the losses comes down to individual errors instead of tactical mistakes. And unfortunately, in contrary to popular belief, LVG despite his budget cannot simply replace 11 players in 1 season.

For that reason alone LVG should be fired and prosecuted for fraud, today. After 18 months, professional players who were perfectly able to play football can't anymore, that's borderline criminal.

 

[NK86]

First off, whats the point of making short term fixes? This team needed a big overhaul and a lot of problems needed to be fixed. For christ sake most of our players still dont control the basics of football (passing accurate, controlling a ball, dribbling).

But do you honestly think that SAF would have achieved anything decent with that team and play style if he didnt have a ridiculous in form Van Persie?

The reason why I'm backing LVG is because in my opinion 90% of the losses comes down to individual errors instead of tactical mistakes. And unfortunately, in contrary to popular belief, LVG despite his budget cannot simply replace 11 players in 1 season.

He did not need to replace 11 players in one season. He got in Falcao and Di Maria for our forward options and let go of Hernandez and Welbeck. That backfired spectacularly. So I really don't get why people say he didn't try to mend the attack when in fact he did and he was awful at that. As for him mending the defense, he inherited DDG (who was already a top 3 GK at that time), Smalling, Jones and even Valencia. Shaw would have been bought regardless of whether he joined or not because of how long we scouted him and already had a bid in place. So basically he bought Blind, Rojo and Darmian and the jury is out for all three of them. He has had 3 transfer windows and all he has actually improved is our midfield options. That does not look like someone who will improve us suddenly.

 

[Rezyuz]

For that reason alone LVG should be fired and prosecuted for fraud, today. After 18 months, professional players who were perfectly able to play football can't anymore, that's borderline criminal.

No they didn't. They always had these ridiculous flaws. But SAF simply used a tactic (pathetic as it was) to mask it and make it work. Which is brilliant in his way, but shameful for any manager that aims to play good football. And im not saying LVG is making us play good football, but atleast hes working on it.

SAF simply took the easy way out, made us play like Stoke and took his points i the latter years. But that doesn't help us get anywhere in 2017, 2020, 2022. These problems had to be fixed eventually and Moyes was the one who thought he didnt have to fix it and just stick to SAF's plan which failed miserably. So they brought in LVG who managed to turn team after team around into a successful team.

And he will do the same here. It take time, it takes patience. But most of all it takes support. And if you cannot accept the fact that our football is boring, and not up to your standards because Man United hasn't won a price for 3 years then sell your jerseys and buy a Barca or Munich one.

 

[Rezyuz]

He did not need to replace 11 players in one season. He got in Falcao and Di Maria for our forward options and let go of Hernandez and Welbeck. That backfired spectacularly. So I really don't get why people say he didn't try to mend the attack when in fact he did and he was awful at that. As for him mending the defense, he inherited DDG (who was already a top 3 GK at that time), Smalling, Jones and even Valencia. Shaw would have been bought regardless of whether he joined or not because of how long we scouted him and already had a bid in place. So basically he bought Blind, Rojo and Darmian and the jury is out for all three of them. He has had 3 transfer windows and all he has actually improved is our midfield options. That does not look like someone who will improve us suddenly.

Are you suggestion Falcao and Di Maria were bad signings while both being the best in their positions at the time? He made the right choice. Not everything goes perfect, for nobody.

Smelling you mentioned was a complete joke in our defense and a liability every single time he got onto that field. While under LVG hes simply one of the best defenders in the league.

 

[NK86]

Are you suggestion Falcao and Di Maria were bad signings while both being the best in their positions at the time? He made the right choice. Not everything goes perfect, for nobody.

Smelling you mentioned was a complete joke in our defense and a liability every single time he got onto that field. While under LVG hes simply one of the best defenders in the league.

Absolute nonsense. He was still a good defender who was growing into his role. If you are going to give LVG complete credit for Smalling, then you need to bash him for how Rooney has regressed or how poor Depay has looked.

 

[JPRouve]

No they didn't. They always had these ridiculous flaws. But SAF simply used a tactic (pathetic as it was) to mask it and make it work. Which is brilliant in his way, but shameful for any manager that aims to play good football. And im not saying LVG is making us play good football, but atleast hes working on it.

SAF simply took the easy way out, made us play like Stoke and took his points i the latter years. But that doesn't help us get anywhere in 2017, 2020, 2022. These problems had to be fixed eventually and Moyes was the one who thought he didnt have to fix it and just stick to SAF's plan which failed miserably. So they brought in LVG who managed to turn team after team around into a successful team.

And he will do the same here. It take time, it takes patience. But most of all it takes support. And if you cannot accept the fact that our football is boring, and not up to your standards because Man United hasn't won a price for 3 years then sell your jerseys and buy a Barca or Munich one.

United played like Stoke? And why are we even talking about SAF, only 8 members of the current roster have played under SAF(Smalling, Young, Valencia, Rooney, Powell, De Gea, Jones and Carrick) half of those players have been the best performers under LVG and the others have been the best squad players. The players who are looking like professional darters are LVG's purchases and these players were above average footballers before their unfortunate reunion with him.

 

[Leftback99]

Smelling you mentioned was a complete joke in our defense and a liability every single time he got onto that field.

When was this?

 

[LeChuck]

Is Smelling the new Goggs and Frogie?

 

[Sultan]

@Rezyuz

If the present players can't play football it's his fault. They were his purchases.

The only regular players remaining from Sir Alex's time are De Gea, Smalling, Rooney. Shaw and Herrera were scouted prior to LvG. I'd say all these players except Rooney have been the best performers. Even Rooney has looked a different player whilst playing for England.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Wish I was a kid! Are you planning to come to a game? If so, wait till LvG is out of the club.

I would love to go but currently im not even bothered if i miss a game on telly....i will wait....

 

[JPRouve]

And he will do the same here. It take time, it takes patience. But most of all it takes support. And if you cannot accept the fact that our football is boring, and not up to your standards because Man United hasn't won a price for 3 years then sell your jerseys and buy a Barca or Munich one.

Also, are you genuinely pretending to be a superior supporter, after calling a player smelling, denigrating a manager and players who have actually been successful? Oh and I missed the part where you pretend that LVG has been successful with United, are you for real?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Mostly agreed. However, it's the constant defence of LvG in achieving a fourth finish last season as if it was a great achievement.

I don't think I've seen much of that, Sults. Most people thought 4th after 7th the previous season was "acceptable". LVG basically just about did what he had to. There was no "achievement" in finishing 4th IMO. It was just that after so many years we didn't have CL football and beyond anything it was vital to get that back given the title wasn't going to happen last year.

I can't imagine Woody will be please with our comeback post Moyes being 2 years of scraping to 4th place. IMO that's not acceptable. Not at Manchester United.

 

[Sultan]

The most decorated manager in the world is now being criticised just to defend LvG.

 

[Rezyuz]

Also, are you genuinely pretending to be a superior supporter, after calling a player smelling, denigrating a manager and players who have actually been successful? Oh and I missed the part where you pretend that LVG has been successful with United, are you for real?

Its called auto correct.

And how am i denigrating a manager? Just because your vision is clouded like the average fanboy doesn't mean another person is finding himself "superior" when he mentions flaws. The entire world saw the flaws, every neutral supporter, commentator you name it.

And saying LVG isn't successful is basically you being ignorant as hell.

What was his mission in year 1 which an entire board agreed too. Enlighten me.

Oh yeah thats right, place in the top 4 recovering from spot 8. Oh hey! Hey achieved that milestone.

And this season hes in the run for the title. So tell me smart ass, point me out where he failed. His CL and cup knock out both plagiarized by injuries and horrible a horrible referee call? Did you also scream SAF out when he got knocked out in the CL group stage?

 

[Rezyuz]

I don't think I've seen much of that, Sults. Most people thought 4th after 7th the previous season was "acceptable". LVG basically just about did what he had to. There was no "achievement" in finishing 4th IMO. It was just that after so many years we didn't have CL football and beyond anything it was vital to get that back given the title wasn't going to happen last year.

I can't imagine Woody will be please with our comeback post Moyes being 2 years of scraping to 4th place. IMO that's not acceptable. Not at Manchester United.

It becomes an achievement if you consider the teams and time City, Chelsea, Arsenal had to become 1/2/3, unfortunately most fail to think that far.

And if we didnt get on a bad run at the end we would even be title contenders.

 

[NK86]

Its called auto correct.

And how am i denigrating a manager? Just because your vision is clouded like the average fanboy doesn't mean another person is finding himself "superior" when he mentions flaws. The entire world saw the flaws, every neutral supporter, commentator you name it.

You think people said we played like Stoke? Really!

And saying LVG isn't successful is basically you being ignorant as hell.

What was his mission in year 1 which an entire board agreed too. Enlighten me.

Oh yeah thats right, place in the top 4 recovering from spot 8. Oh hey! Hey achieved that milestone.

Coming 7th was an absolute anomaly. And no one was blaming him or saying coming 4th last year was not a good start. But you need to build on that start and this season we seem to have regressed. We are fourth not because we have been great but other teams are faltering around.

And this season hes in the run for the title. So tell me smart ass, point me out where he failed. His CL and cup knock out both plagiarized by injuries and horrible a horrible referee call? Did you also scream SAF out when he got knocked out in the CL group stage?

He got knocked out of the league cup and the FA cup quickly even last season. We have been knocked out of the group stages of the CL and knocked out by the Middlesbourough this season. And you are seriously comparing SAF with LVG?

Denigrating the most decorated manager in the world to tell how LVG is actually taking us forward compared to him? Really?

 

[mu77]

Louis van Gaal's Manchester United have lost their "aura," according to Bournemouth defender Simon Francis.

 

[Sultan]

Its called auto correct.

And how am i denigrating a manager? Just because your vision is clouded like the average fanboy doesn't mean another person is finding himself "superior" when he mentions flaws. The entire world saw the flaws, every neutral supporter, commentator you name it.

And saying LVG isn't successful is basically you being ignorant as hell.

What was his mission in year 1 which an entire board agreed too. Enlighten me.

Oh yeah thats right, place in the top 4 recovering from spot 8. Oh hey! Hey achieved that milestone.

And this season hes in the run for the title. So tell me smart ass, point me out where he failed. His CL and cup knock out both plagiarized by injuries and horrible a horrible referee call? Did you also scream SAF out when he got knocked out in the CL group stage?

Stop the name calling!

 

[Spoony]

He's having a meltdown.

 

[Eto'odinho]

It becomes an achievement if you consider the teams and time City, Chelsea, Arsenal had to become 1/2/3, unfortunately most fail to think that far.

And if we didnt get on a bad run at the end we would even be title contenders.

I don't get this. Kindly clarify. Do you mean that those teams had a given right to finish the season in those positions? On what basis?

What about this season? Where should United, in your opinion, be at the end of the season?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It becomes an achievement if you consider the teams and time City, Chelsea, Arsenal had to become 1/2/3, unfortunately most fail to think that far.

And if we didnt get on a bad run at the end we would even be title contenders.

Well, we weren't exactly permanent 7th place fixtures so that logic doesn't make sense. We were the champions who fell apart and dropped to 7th. That doesn't make the team he took over the 7th best squad in England. So it's not really an "achievement" in a true sense. It was a case of him doing what was expected in the 1st year - to get back into the CL.

 

[The Purley King]

But when someone else comes in they will have a group of players who are more comfortable in possession, and have at least had some exposure to a different way of thinking about the game.

This "comfortable in possession" thing really pisses me off. Its bollocks. We aren't more comfortable in possession than before because when we're in possession we never pass it to a teammate who is under any pressure at all. Its all so safe. I could pass the ball along the back four all day and look like Beckenbauer, but as soon I'm pressured I'll give it away - which is what we are seeing in the matches.

I could put up with the a playing style I dislike if it gets results and likewise, I'll put up with occasionally poor results, if its a style I like. At the moment its the worst bits of both and the one thing that won't be changing with LVG in charge is the playing style. So he better fecking sort the results out asap.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Feel sorry for people who are brainwashed by LvG, if you're deluded by Guardiola, Klopp, Simeone etc fair enough, but by LvG? Reminds me of the people this summer who believed firmly that Rooney would score 30.

 

[Red Dreams]

I keep hearing top 4 in many posts as some kind of holy grail. We should be disappointed if we finish second.

Nothing but the title is good enough for Manchester United. We can still do it this season. All it needs is for van Gaal to have us playing football with a passion.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I've changed my vote. Sack, sack, sack!

 

[Spock]

I'm still in the "sack him in the summer" camp, but I've never like the idea of a lame duck season for a manager. It's completely bonkers to believe we can bring in top names going into a manager's publicly stated last season.

So for me the real question is whether you sack him now (Monday) os sack him after the next "bad result" or wait until May. Because we're sure as hell not going to finish first or second in the league as we should have. If we do, however, win the league that means we will have gone a great run. But I'd still sack him in May as we can't allow or any manager to go into a "last season".

So, "now" or "after the next bad run"? It's a close one but I'm going with "after the next bad run".

The case against Louis Van Gaal is very strong, but we really do have to acknowledge the devastation of all these injuries. And in some cases, growing pains of young players such as Lingard, who really should have put PSV away with the sitter. Had he accomplished that simple task, there would be no conversation about sacking LVG. We would have won the group and we'd be playing Gent in February in the CL. Bournemouth might still have bitten us in the ass, but there will be those days when a freak corner kick beats one of the world's top keepers, thanks to a crazy gust of wind, and when a fantastically worked corner kick will confound young defenders.

I have a list of grievances against Van Gaal and sacking him now would not be irrational but unless Ancelotti is ready to come in right away we'd be daft to sack Van Gaal and let Giggs take over as interim (or worse, permanent) manager through the rest of the season. But if the collapse deepens, we'd have to stop the bleeding, even if that means letting one of us on the caf take over!

 

[redindian1987]

Dear God this entire thread is embarrassing.

We're 4 points off the top and people are throwing their toys out of the pram as if we're 13th.

 

[bleedred]

Dear God this entire thread is embarrassing.

We're 4 points off the top and people are throwing their toys out of the pram as if we're 13th.

We are 4 points off 7th as well. so you could make the argument either way!

 

[Ixion]

My vote is still let him see out his contract but if Pep or Ancelloti were able to take over next season and we haven't won anything/qualified for the top 4 this year then make the change.

 

[::sonny::]

He lost the dressing room, like Mourinho.

 

[bleedred]

My vote is still let him see out his contract but if Pep or Ancelloti were able to take over next season and we haven't won anything/qualified for the top 4 this year then make the change.

Do you mean like Moyes sacking after we found out we cant make top 4 rather than act before and try something t get into it. Why would Pep and ancelotti want to manage a side not playing in the CL?

 

[Crackers]

Dear God this entire thread is embarrassing.

We're 4 points off the top and people are throwing their toys out of the pram as if we're 13th.

It's not just the position. It's the style we're playing, his approach to man management, his bizarre substitutions/selection of players.
Results are just hiding the main symptom: We're playing truly truly awful football. Defensively solid to a point, but at the cost of any decent play.
I'm somewhere between "fire him now!" and "evaluate him at the end of the season". With each dour display we play, I move closer to the out camp.

 

[bleedred]

I'm still in the "sack him in the summer" camp, but I've never like the idea of a lame duck season for a manager. It's completely bonkers to believe we can bring in top names going into a manager's publicly stated last season.

So for me the real question is whether you sack him now (Monday) os sack him after the next "bad result" or wait until May. Because we're sure as hell not going to finish first or second in the league as we should have. If we do, however, win the league that means we will have gone a great run. But I'd still sack him in May as we can't allow or any manager to go into a "last season".

So, "now" or "after the next bad run"? It's a close one but I'm going with "after the next bad run".

The case against Louis Van Gaal is very strong, but we really do have to acknowledge the devastation of all these injuries. And in some cases, growing pains of young players such as Lingard, who really should have put PSV away with the sitter. Had he accomplished that simple task, there would be no conversation about sacking LVG. We would have won the group and we'd be playing Gent in February in the CL. Bournemouth might still have bitten us in the ass, but there will be those days when a freak corner kick beats one of the world's top keepers, thanks to a crazy gust of wind, and when a fantastically worked corner kick will confound young defenders.

I have a list of grievances against Van Gaal and sacking him now would not be irrational but unless Ancelotti is ready to come in right away we'd be daft to sack Van Gaal and let Giggs take over as interim (or worse, permanent) manager through the rest of the season. But if the collapse deepens, we'd have to stop the bleeding, even if that means letting one of us on the caf take over!

What would be your criteria for that. Just curious because many(including me) have felt that we have reached that stage.

 

[Boycott]

Dear God this entire thread is embarrassing.

We're 4 points off the top and people are throwing their toys out of the pram as if we're 13th.

Those 4 points will grow with this horrendous style of football which allows teams to stay in the game long enough without doing much work and collecting 1 or even 3 points.

We're also 6 points off being 11th.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Dear God this entire thread is embarrassing.

We're 4 points off the top and people are throwing their toys out of the pram as if we're 13th.

We are 2 points worse off than at this stage last season, and have been playing much worse football, the fact all the teams around us can't take advantage of that does not vindicate what's going on.

I'm split on what we should do because LvG is surely better than this, but as he only has 18 months max left anyway, it has to be open to a strong debate as to whether it's worth carrying on with him.

 

[Cheesy]

Dear God this entire thread is embarrassing.

We're 4 points off the top and people are throwing their toys out of the pram as if we're 13th.

In what has been an incredibly poor Premier League season thus far. We've also barely scored 20 goals despite the fact that we're nearing the halfway point of the season, we're out of the CL despite being given a manageable group, and have a manager in charge who is employing an incredibly boring style, is stubborn despite being mostly ineffective, and has us in a run of poor form.

For what it's worth, I do think there are some overreactions in that plenty of posters will be a lot more content should we, say, win our next three games, but the reasons for wanting LVG gone aren't that ridiculous.

 

[Crackers]

Planes are boring. Can we try a hang glider that drops 1000's of leaflets?

 

[Cheesy]

Planes are boring. Can we try a hang glider that drops 1000's of leaflets?

We can do it in a similar style to LVG's management. Have lots of guys on hang gliders with leaflets, but instead of dropping them onto the pitch, they just pass the leaflets among each other and never actually do anything with them.

 

[Ixion]

Do you mean like Moyes sacking after we found out we cant make top 4 rather than act before and try something t get into it. Why would Pep and ancelotti want to manage a side not playing in the CL?

Well Pep isn't going to come here midseason to save our season and I'd rather LVG try and get us top 4 than Giggs so I'd just stick with him.