LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[sunama]

He keeps talking about the Martial miss as if getting that one chance was the plan all along and Martial ballsed it up for him. We created nothing, Martial did that on his own and going on about him missing it instead of praising him for being the only one that managed to create anything seems to sum up his man management skills.

Mate, that 1 chance was the plan.
1-0 was the target (as usual).
The fact that that goal didn't happen, means LVG's plan went out of the window.
The reason why he clings on to a single chance/goal is the target score line of 1-0.

 

[GlastonSpur]

What makes me think he will turn things around is that we actually are doing a lot of progress in the talent department. If you look at a squad like Chelsea they're absolutely doomed to die unless you invest heavy - starting from TODAY. That team has reached its full potential and will only go down from here. I'm also sure Tottenham are at their highest level and can't progress because the size of their club. Their players are now at a stage in their career where the average peak of the squad is in zenit. I'm sure players like Alli and Kane will progress more, however, other players won't - and we're right behind them with a squad that has lots of flaws....

Say what? Spurs will be in the top 10 globally in terms of income (currently 12th) when our new stadium opens. And in any case, as this season has shown, money is far from being everything compared to having a very good manager, scouting and player recruitment system, and youth development system.

As to your other points, Bentaleb is 21, Dier, Davies and N'Jie are 22 years old, Son and Caroll are 23, Wimmer is 23, Lamela, Eriksen and Mason are 24 ... why are none of these players going to improve further? And besides, we have a lot of talented youth players coming up through the ranks - e.g. Marcus Edwards and Cameron Carter-Vickers.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

cheer up mate

You got me all wrong, I don't see anything.

IE is effin shit.

 

[thegregster]

Say what? Spurs will be in the top 10 globally in terms of income (currently 12th) when our new stadium opens. And in any case, as this season has shown, money is far from being everything compared to having a very good manager, scouting and player recruitment system, and youth development system.

As to your other points, Bentaleb is 21, Dier, Davies and N'Jie are 22 years old, Son and Caroll are 23, Wimmer is 23, Lamela, Eriksen and Mason are 24 ... why are none of these players going to improve further? And besides, we have a lot of talented youth players coming up through the ranks - e.g. Marcus Edwards and Cameron Carter-Vickers.

You have produced 1 very good player in the last 30 years. Your youth set-up is nothing special. Its actually very poor compared to the the likes of United,Arsenal,Liverpool,Everton,Southampton etc over the last 30 years.

 

[Lennon7]

You got me all wrong, I don't see anything.

IE is effin shit.

Ah right. It's a video Joe.ie put together of Louis singing his own version of "I will survive".

 

[GlastonSpur]

You have produce 1 very good player in the last 30 years. Your youth set-up is nothing special.

It's produced and developed several players in the squad that's both the youngest in the Prem and currently sits in 2nd place in the league. Players don't have to be 'stars' in order to contribute and form part of a cohesive team.

 

[Random Task]

What makes me think he will turn things around is that we actually are doing a lot of progress in the talent department. If you look at a squad like Chelsea they're absolutely doomed to die unless you invest heavy - starting from TODAY. That team has reached its full potential and will only go down from here. I'm also sure Tottenham are at their highest level and can't progress because the size of their club. Their players are now at a stage in their career where the average peak of the squad is in zenit. I'm sure players like Alli and Kane will progress more, however, other players won't - and we're right behind them with a squad that has lots of flaws.

I assume by talent you are referring to the youth products. Granted, the likes of CBJ, TFM, Rashford, Varella etc have made progress and are pretty much the only bright spark in an otherwise dull season, but how much of the credit do we attribute to LVG for their emergence? TFM, to his credit, played himself in to contention but he was forced to play Rashford, CBJ and Varella due to an injury crisis at the club, he cannot be afforded credit for something in which he was forced in to. Your argument holds no water if that's the best you can come up with, no offense intended.

As for Chelsea going downhill from here, don't kid yourself mate. They will be back next year as strong as ever after they invest heavily during the summer transfer windown. Spurs' future is unknown, but I would suggest it depends massively on whether they can hold on to their star players or lose them to bigger clubs (big summer for them)

 

[Random Task]

It's produced and developed several players in the squad that's both the youngest in the Prem and currently sits in 2nd place in the league. Players don't have to be 'stars' in order to contribute and form part of a cohesive team.

Spurs have a big summer coming up, there will be a lot of interest in Kane and Alli in particular plus a few others. Do you believe hand on heart they can keep on to these stars?

 

[GlastonSpur]

Spurs have a big summer coming up, there will be a lot of interest in Kane and Alli in particular plus a few others. Do you believe hand on heart they can keep on to these stars?

Yep, I'm very confident that we'll keep all of them. They'll have CL football to look forward to, plus a pay rise no doubt for most. They'll also want to stay with Pochettino. And on top of that the internal team spirit and bonding appears to be very strong. Also, even if we don't win the title this time around (and the odds are against it), the internal belief will be there that the team can push on further next season.

 

[sunama]

There seems to be some rhetoric which fans and pundits are sticking with.
Apparently 4th place is now our holy grail and as long the manage keeps getting 4th place, he is doing a good job and won't be sacked.
This is the sort of target which is normally given to mid table clubs like Everton, West Ham, Spurs, etc.
Since when has 4th place in the league and no trophies/cups become our target?

Strangely, it's been like this since January when we got that mighty home draw against Chelsea. That's why I firmly believe he will be here next season.

So you are saying that we now have a system in place where an employee can do as bad a job as possible.
Villa may sack a poor performing manager (twice in 1 season), but MUFC will never sack a poor performing manager.
Do you honestly believe this?

Jose is arriving in the Summer and now whatever LVG does, is irrelevant.
This is why nobody bothers talking about our poor performances, because he is already sacked.
Same goes for Pelligrini. If he lost all games till the end of the season, it won't change anything.

 

[VP]

Those kind of jobs you eventually get sacked from. It's not Everton. It's not a serious argument you're bringing up here. If you look at the kind of players he's managed and brought in you would understand this man creates football history, and that's the reason he's at a club like Manchester United. Don't forget that.

Great managers don't consistently get sacked. Man who creates football history

 

[BlakeUtd]

you know the sad thing, he's gonna be gone soon enough to enjoy his "Portuguese paradise" yet the disappointment, disaffection and losses will stay for a long time in our memories.
With Moyes though I feel my brain just blanked him out like he never happened haha

 

[Robbie Boy]

So you are saying that we now have a system in place where an employee can do as bad a job as possible.
Villa may sack a poor performing manager (twice in 1 season), but MUFC will never sack a poor performing manager.
Do you honestly believe this?

Jose is arriving in the Summer and now whatever LVG does, is irrelevant.
This is why nobody bothers talking about our poor performances, because he is already sacked.
Same goes for Pelligrini. If he lost all games till the end of the season, it won't change anything.

No I said none of that. I think it's completely unacceptable that he's still here. I just have no faith in the club these days and I'm certainly not confident that things will pan out like some have convinced themselves.

 

[itso 7]

Truly speaking Woodward needs to walk along with anyone who was instrumental in keeping him here in December. We have matched the Moyes debacle after spending a quarter of a billion in two summers, I want to see heads on spikes.

 

[Robbie Boy]

@itso 7 Aye he should have never stayed beyond the winter.

 

[PlayerOne]

For all his faults, I hope Louis' time here finishes before the end-of-season awards. That would be a pretty awful experience for him, should this season peter out, and I don't wish that on him.

Why's that? I don't think he cares what people think or say, he seems convinced he's doing a good job.

 

[JustAFan]

So no change yet, guess we have to wait for West Ham to beat us in the FA Cup.

 

[itso 7]

@itso 7 Aye he should have never stayed beyond the winter.

I trace this to the fact that no one was really held to account for the Moyes fiasco, save for Moyes himself. The circumstances surrounding his appointment, the length and nature of his contract, the fact that people were seemingly content to write off that season etc. These things should have got people sacked or seriously held to account by way of warnings demotions and being frozen out. This comes back to the Glazers and their lack of interest on football beyond the club's bottom line.
Keeping LVG beyond December mirrors that episode and exhibits that people are putting their interests ahead of the club and forgetting that all this money comes from results on the pitch. Sustained mediocrity will kill the revenue streams.

 

[K2K]

A manager on the brink - especially at a big club - always makes the back pages. That's the point. All has gone very quiet over the last few months which makes me assume that no one actually has a clue. Not me, not you, not anyone on here or in the media.

From Martin Samuel's article

It wasn't just getting Antonio Conte that pleased Chelsea; it was the timing of the appointment. April 4, long before the summer transfer window opens. The message was plain. Next season starts here.

‘We are pleased to have recruited one of the most highly regarded managers in world football, and equally pleased to do so before the end of the current season,’ said director Marina Granovskaia. ‘This aids our future planning.’

Indeed it does. There is a long list of potential Chelsea recruits, from Roma midfield player Radja Nainggolan to Juventus defender Leonardo Bonucci, and when Chelsea next speak to them, or their agents, they can make it perfectly plain the direction in which the club are heading.

Chelsea cannot offer Champions League football, but they can demonstrate a degree of stability. They know the coach, they know how he wants to play, and they will know where any new signing fits in his team.



It is the same at Manchester City. Some say it was a mistake to confirm Pep Guardiola’s appointment on February 1, but City had already lost crucial Premier League games to West Ham, Tottenham, Liverpool, Arsenal and Stoke by then, and trailed Leicester by three points.

Whatever the consequences, substantial rebuilding was needed and at least the club could begin selling their new direction before the market was tapped out.

City cannot guarantee Champions League football to Paul Pogba next season, but they can promise the chance to work with Guardiola, and to be at the heart of his project. They can tell players their role; they can say who is in and out.

And then there is Manchester United.

They can give no assurances of the Champions League, either — but, equally, none of the future. When United speak to the representatives of, for instance, Romelu Lukaku, who do they say will be in charge next season?

Louis van Gaal, Jose Mourinho, Mauricio Pochettino, Ryan Giggs — maybe another coach, as yet unknown? In all likelihood, a single Champions League place is up for grabs — one presumes Leicester, Tottenham and Arsenal will get over the line — yet everything at Old Trafford remains shrouded in uncertainty.

It can hardly be presumed that, behind the scenes, chief executive Ed Woodward has a detailed roadmap. Not on the evidence of recent transfer windows, when so much at United seemed haphazard.

Woodward doesn’t want to sack another manager, we know that. After such wonderful stability it reflects poorly on his regime that United could be looking for a third manager in three years since Sir Alex Ferguson retired.

One suggestion is that United are waiting to see whether they qualify for the Champions League next season, before making a call on Van Gaal.

Yet how can that be?

United lost the 2011-12 title to Manchester City on pretty much the last kick of the season. Suppose this season ends similarly? Could United be waiting for the final whistle on May 14 still considering what to do with the manager? Could a moment that may be decided by a referee’s judgment call, or an unlucky deflection, end up shaping policy at Old Trafford?

Surely, United know now whether Van Gaal is the right man for the job. Surely, they can weigh up the embarrassing European exits and the indifferent league form, against the vast changes that have been implemented, the unfortunate injuries and the promise of youth, and decide if this is what they want.

The alternative could be that on the final day of the season an 89th-minute shot by Bournemouth’s Max Gradel hits Phil Jones on the backside, goes in and, on this, Van Gaal is sacked. Of course, if Van Gaal is leaving, it would be dangerous to announce that now. United will have seen what happened to City and Manuel Pellegrini, and will be fearful of demotivating the players.

They are, in many ways, trapped. The only way they can match the confidence of Manchester City and Chelsea in transfer discussions is to come out and confirm that Van Gaal stays next season. Yet they seem reluctant. Maybe Woodward thinks that with a year of Van Gaal’s contract remaining, certainty is implied.

But it isn’t. There has been too much speculation, too many rumours for Van Gaal’s continued presence to be presumed. Anyway, how do United sell this season’s ethos, considering much of the positivity has come from the young players?

We admire United’s promotion of youth, but does that play as well beyond these shores? It will be an irony if United’s stability works against them — but if they do have a plan in place for next season, it’s the best-kept secret in town.

One of the leading journalist in English football. Doesnt appear even he has a clue.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

National newspapers are now having genuine discussions and asking the fans if they think we're still a bigger club than Tottenham. Obviously, most people see how ridiculous this is, but the fact that media outlets have actually asked this question shows how far down we've been dragged by this clown.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

Still here then?

 

[Cal?]

Yep, I'm very confident that we'll keep all of them. They'll have CL football to look forward to, plus a pay rise no doubt for most. They'll also want to stay with Pochettino. And on top of that the internal team spirit and bonding appears to be very strong. Also, even if we don't win the title this time around (and the odds are against it), the internal belief will be there that the team can push on further next season.

That's all very well, and I guess you don't have anyone that Real Madrid will come calling for at the moment, so you could well keep everyone.

However, there's little doubt that there are a group of clubs around Europe, should they be interested, I'm sure any of your players will have their head turned.

 

[thegregster]

It's produced and developed several players in the squad that's both the youngest in the Prem and currently sits in 2nd place in the league. Players don't have to be 'stars' in order to contribute and form part of a cohesive team.

Carroll,Mason and Kane are the only three homegrown players.

Neither Carroll not Mason have had a big impact this season. They have only 4 and 6 starts each. At 23 and 24 years old I suspect both will move on in the summer.

 

[K2K]

The worst thing is LVG would probably get it right next year. He's explained it just the way it is: his first year was about getting rid of the +33 year olds. Next up was trying to identify the correct players - atm he's not happy with the speed and technique!

If you look at a manager like LVG and his attributes you will see he's not the best tactical coach. He's more about finding the correct man for the future. Just look at some of the prospects coming through now. I can tell you I'm amazed and there's probably more to come.

Some of you dorks behave as if we've got some first timer on the job. Just let me say AJAX, BARCELONA, BAYERN MÜNCHEN, THE NETHERLANDS. Just look at it ffs. Yes, he's not done extremely well with us exactly but to finish his job now is stupid. He's a TOP NAME in European football and will always be. He's not up there with SAF but he's absolutely one of the guys ending up in the top 10 books of modern football history.

2/10 for effort.

 

[SteveJ]

From the Football365 Mailbox. Makes you wonder why LVG didn't go to Spurs in the first place:

Following the game yesterday and LVG’s post-match comments, I thought it would be worth writing in to the mailbox about an encounter I had with the United manager on holiday last summer in Vilamoura, Portugal. My wife and I were out for dinner when we saw him and his family entering the restaurant we were in (whilst we were sat at the back by the toilets, he and his family were placed front and centre in the middle obviously). I’m a Spurs fan but I thought that I would never get the chance again to meet someone with such history in the game, Ajax, Barca, Holland and United to name but a few. So, once we had finished, and by this time the restaurant had virtually cleared out, with a bit of Dutch courage (i.e a fair few beers and wines), I decided to interrupt the Van Gaal family dinner and ask for a photo. Having heard of his reputation as a tough task master, and seeing his interactions over the years with the press, I was a bit nervous at his reaction, but before I could even finish my question of whether I could have a photo, he stopped me and asked me who I supported, specifically, are you United or City? I said neither, I was a Spurs fan. Straight away he smiled and said that is OK then. His son immediately stood up and said that he would take the picture and commented that they were big fans of Spurs and “Mr. Levy”.

He asked me to sit next to him and once the photo had been taken, asked me my thoughts on Spurs. I said that last season was OK, but felt that this season we would again be pushing for 4th, but would probably finish 5th or 6th (how wrong was I). He immediately stopped me and said that we had a great “selection” (not sure why, but he always used that word instead of team/squad) and said that we would win the league in the next few years if we stayed together. Obviously I thought he was being polite as no one could have foreseen what has since happened, and just replied that I thought he would have more chance with his team as he would be able to spend some serious money in the summer. He was actually then quite dismissive as he said that he couldn’t win the league with this selection, they weren’t good enough. I said that he would be buying a few players soon to add to that squad and he laughed and said possibly…..it was very shortly after this that Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlein joined. I just said please don’t take Lloris away from us as at the time it looked certain that De Gea would be going to Madrid…again he just laughed.

I thought I would push my luck a bit and mentioned to him that everyone thought that he was going to be signing for us before United came in for him. He said that the deal was all agreed with “Mr. Levy”, and he was very impressed with him and Spurs as a whole, but then United came in and he simply couldn’t turn them down. But he said that he would love to work with Mr Levy one day and his whole family were very fond of Spurs.

At this point I realised I had outstayed my welcome and his wife, daughter in law and grandchild were sick of me sitting there so I thanked him for being so nice and said good luck for the season.

He was genuinely a lovely guy and couldn’t have been further away from the irritable man we see in front of the press now. His comments yesterday about United being a bigger club than Spurs may still be true, but I know which club I’m backing (admittedly, slightly biased) for success over the next few years. How different our seasons could have been if we had had LVG in charge and not Pochettino. Lets just make sure we keep him now!

Mike, Southend (THFC obviously)

Source:
http://www.football365.com/news/mails-liverpool-will-challenge-next-season

 

[gza the genius]

Yep, I'm very confident that we'll keep all of them. They'll have CL football to look forward to, plus a pay rise no doubt for most. They'll also want to stay with Pochettino. And on top of that the internal team spirit and bonding appears to be very strong. Also, even if we don't win the title this time around (and the odds are against it), the internal belief will be there that the team can push on further next season.

I'd agree with this, I think Spurs will be fine keeping their players this summer. Next season will be a big season for you though in my opinion. You'll have City with Guardiola, Chelsea likely back in contention with Conte, Liverpool likely improving under Klopp and hopefully us with Mourinho. If you can't match this form again next season I think players will start to look for other options. That said, the same thing applies to United. If we don't put it together soon we could be in big trouble.

 

[facund]

 

[golden_blunder]

From the Football365 Mailbox. Makes you wonder why LVG didn't go to Spurs in the first place:



Source:
http://www.football365.com/news/mails-liverpool-will-challenge-next-season

no doubting he's a nice man away from it all either, its just that its not working for him at United, and everyone can see it apart from the board it seems!

 

[Acquire Me]

no doubting he's a nice man away from it all either, its just that its not working for him at United, and everyone can see it apart from the board it seems!

This. I think that LvG is a great man and also a world class manager. This time it did not work out at all. Thats the sad fact.

 

[SteveJ]

no doubting he's a nice man away from it all either, its just that its not working for him at United, and everyone can see it apart from the board it seems!

Maybe I misread the letter, chief, but I was aghast at LVG lauding Spurs' squad and prospects and dismissing United's. Even if we allow that his remarks about us & Spurs were true, why tell an outsider stuff that might find its way into print?

 

[Robbie Boy]

One of the leading journalist in English football. Doesnt appear even he has a clue.

Aye, seems literally no one has the slightest foggy.

 

[sunama]

I've slowly gone from angry to resigned to failure. My expectations are so low that seeing us get beat no longer hurts like it used to.

This is how I feel.
For me, the anger part for me happened in January (after the disastrous December).
Since then I expect to lose every game we play and just need this guy fired (or rather the new manager announced).
LVG is a top 4/5 manager and he is unable to break into the top 3, so there is no point in keeping this guy on.
The attack. The attempting to score 1 goal/game. Attempting and failing to beat teams like Norwich and Bournemouth. I feel embarrassed for him and for the team.

Can you imagine, Woodward & Jose
Woodward: So, Jose, if hired as the MUFC manager, what do you believe is achievable?
Jose: Yes, we must aim to score 1 goal every game and hopefully get top 4. But I can only achieve this if I am given £250M to spend.
Woodward: So you need to spend the equivalent of buying Messi and Ronaldo, to get top 4?
Jose: Yes.

 

[sunama]

Yeah, felt a bit like hiring top-class Oxford graduate to do your accounting and then he sits down, opens up your books and you see him starting to count using his fingers.

 

[sunama]

So basically, this is our level:

Manchester United 46
Watford 40
Norwich 39
Aston Villa 36
WBA 31

 

[Art Vandelay]

Mate, that 1 chance was the plan.
1-0 was the target (as usual).
The fact that that goal didn't happen, means LVG's plan went out of the window.
The reason why he clings on to a single chance/goal is the target score line of 1-0.

Yeah I get that and it's ridiculously stupid in itself. My point is more about him not getting more flak for attempting to hang the one player that created anything out to dry for the crime of not doing it all himself.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

There is absolutely no evidence of that. Quite the opposite, if anything.

Exactly. Doesn't he usually get it right before now and then it goes really badly

So basically, this is our level:

Manchester United 46
Watford 40
Norwich 39
Aston Villa 36
WBA 31

Joining this with the Nani comments, a shot is taken by instinct, that you think there is a chance of scoring. If he is saying only take a shot if it is 100% possible, while the player is thinking about it, the chance has gone. It's no wonder we are not taking shots and not creating chances.

 

[Sad Chris]

Yep, I'm very confident that we'll keep all of them. They'll have CL football to look forward to, plus a pay rise no doubt for most. They'll also want to stay with Pochettino. And on top of that the internal team spirit and bonding appears to be very strong. Also, even if we don't win the title this time around (and the odds are against it), the internal belief will be there that the team can push on further next season.

This point can be interesting. It's exactly the same situation Liverpool were in before Suarez left. If you can hold onto everyone, who knows, but if you can't there's a big chance of it just having been a blip.

To stay on thread topic: LvG OUT!!!!! NOW!!!!!

 

[GlastonSpur]

That's all very well, and I guess you don't have anyone that Real Madrid will come calling for at the moment, so you could well keep everyone.

However, there's little doubt that there are a group of clubs around Europe, should they be interested, I'm sure any of your players will have their head turned.

Like who, for example?

 

[Cal?]

Like who, for example?

Real, Barca, Bayern for sure, to a lesser extent PSG, Juve, United, Chelsea, City

 

[pauldyson1uk]

know we know what he is drawing on his pad.