Nuts is nuts.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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That's true about going inwith Only Rooney up front. And that certainly wasn't van Gaal's fault. Oh.... Wait....
I'm not going to any more Manchester United matches until LVG is sacked, it's my time I'd be painstakingly wasting and I believe the club is run by morons as evidenced by LVG's ongoing presence. If I show up then that's a sign of support and I don't support the club right now. The club shouldn't think I support them. If they do think I support them things are more likely to stay the course (and vicariously LVG).
Showing blind support for "the cause" just because it's your duty is how the Holocaust happened.
Showing blind support for "the cause" just because it's your duty is how the Holocaust happened.
FFS don't repeat it. Please. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.
This is why the caf broke.
The club are in a dilemma, to reach the top it will cost them a pretty penny, with mourinho it's all about getting to the top and adding more players. The board they think with VG the so called kids coming through, its not huge pressure to spend big and stick to VG who will do just enough to keep the coins rolling in. With VG he has not got the winning mentality, he gets by week to week, he could not muster a title challenge if his life depended on it. Great managers you can compare to mad scientists, they have this drive not being able to rest until they reach the end game of their goals, VG accepts or is too old to have that drive that we were used to under Ferguson
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He is saying what most of us have been saying about blind loyalty, but that was never going to be the best example to use. We all support Manchester United but we aren't going to put up with being taken for mugs. However there are ones who will quite happily clap the manager on the back and applaud him even when we lose to no hopers. They need to take a serious look at themselves.
Aye. There was a point to be made in there somewhere but he just didn't make it very well.
What if we somehow reach the FA Cup final and you've just won ticket to Wembley ? It's still quite far from happening but wouldn't you like United to win something or you're just gonna faithfully support your own cause against LvG and other 'morons' in the club structure ?
I agree on match going fans who are spending earnings to see a lazy ass football. Can't deny that they deserve a spectacle in Theatre of Dreams but nobody forces you to scream 'Sieg Gaal' everytime you see him on the bench when pretty much it's clear from few reliable men, he's going down the drain, especially after he admitted that he failed the fans. Doesn't that already sound like his capitulation ?
This is about the crux of it for me. We weren't broken and we didn't need to be fixed. Especially by somebody who quite clearly doesn't understand the footballing landscape.
No they don't. At all. The match going fans can do whatever the feck they want realistically. They are the ones who are spending their money selling out the stadium each week. As I said I'll go to the match (at home more often than not) and it'd be completely against the culture of the club to boo the players and the team. For the most part this season we haven't been up to where we want but we've done well in the Prem recently and could win a cup. That's something most clubs will dream of. I don't ever expect our club to dominate the league again, and I certainly don't think fourth and a trophy would be a bad year.
unfortunately we've got pompous arses in here who think that they can dictate how supporters should or shouldn't support their team.
I am not referring to @Twigginater and @ZupZup of course.
You're replying to a quote from a person who is saying "Those who support a club in this way need to take a good hard look at themselves" and then saying that unfortunately others are telling him how to support a club.
It's an absolute joke. The people who go to games every week are quite simply doing more than other set of fans. To hear people who have never been a game suggesting that the home and away support need to support the club differently is maddening.
Quite simply we do not have any right to dominate the league. We are spending less money than some teams, have a lower wage bill than some teams and have had to let go of more players in the last few years than most teams. It's all well and good saying "Well look at Leicester" but they're above and beyond everyone. You also need to look at Chelsea (bigger wage bill) Man City (Much bigger net spend and much more money wasted) and Arsenal (long sustained manager who has had time to implement his vision).
It's not been a great year, however it has the potential to end satisfactory. We could come top four and win a cup. A cup that every other "big" club went out of earlier than us. And sure we could have done better in Champions League. But we went out one round earlier than every other team in the comp bar City.
People who don't go games have absolutely no right telling those in the stadium to have a look at themselves. Instead of thinking "Ok, so the local fans seem to support the club this way, they're the ones who have carried on the traditions and give the most up to the club, I'll maybe learn something from them" the attitude is somehow "I know way better than Mr Jones who has been supporting the club for 40 odd years through thick and thin."
Eh? Not sure if that is sarcasm or not... but personally have no issue with fellow match going fans booing or not. Myself - I prefer not to at this stage. If other fans want to, that's their call. Likewise, I don't expect other fans to tell me what I should be doing at matches... like some in this thread who are calling for match-going fans to 'boo' in an attempt to have LVG ousted. Those fans need to pipe down, get themselves to matches and practice what they preach.
Virtually all your points, even if well-meant and seemingly reasonable, could be countered (if it wasn't likely to be a waste of time). The 'spoilt' attitude you decry is little more sensationalist than your own comment yesterday that 'Mourinho would have us close to the relegation zone'; if you're going to selectively use José's recent history to support your point, it's no different to concerned fans using United's recent history to support our overall point: United's recent history is underwhelming, considering means and status. It's no wonder - as you surely realise - that many fans are utterly exasperated with the club. Not spoilt, but dismayed.
Spot on.
Yeah Steve, I compeltely understand that people can refute my points. As for me, I'm happy for LVG to stay, I would be happy for him to go. I'm not that fussed. This year if it ends well could turn out to be a perfectly serviceable year, with no real improvements. However I've seen enough positives to keep with him, especially recently. I think the introduction of young players, our recent form in the league and his (IMO) relatively strong signings means he could continue positive work next year. Every point someone makes could be countered.
I didn't say that yesterday though, I said Mourinho COULD get us close to the relegation zone. Which he vcould.
I believe that every supporter has the right to support the team the way he wants. Different fans come from different cultures and they tend to interpret football differently. Considering that our club had never been shy in putting their hands in the foreign supporters pockets than I guess that the club (and your good self who support the club irrespective of what decisions it makes) have to accept and embrace that diversity in the way other people support.
I am a 3rd generation Manchester United supporter who have relatives who were among the founders of the oldest Manchester United supporters club in the world (yes and that include the ones in Manchester). The founders (some are still alive) opened the supporters club and often invested their own money in the club at a time when the country was still recovering from war and when nearly everyone on the island was piss poor (being colony and all). They kept their support alive even though it was sustained by scraps of information, the radio, magazines brought from Manchester and the occasional visit to OT (which for a Manchester United local was a common thing but very few on the island could afford that and some actually worked a second job to be able to go to Manchester 1-2 times a year). So seriously, don't treat the foreigners supporters like some third class supporters because some may have done more sacrifices to support the club than you did. Also considering the decline of British talent both in terms of management and players, we would be relying on foreigners more and more.
When have I ever criticised the foreign fans? I think it's great that they support United, without them we wouldn't have a chance of winning the league.
Steve scores a home run! Spot the feck on!
The problem is that, you keep saying that the match going fans do more for the club, which is wrong
Exactly this.
After Van Gaal's last season with Barca in 02/03 which he was fired mid-season, they finished 6th.
They never accepted that as their level. Instead they went out and signed Ronaldinho and other talented players in attempt to get back to the top.
My biggest fear is that in a few years we will be sitting talking about the good old days and how we used to be somebody in the English game. I may be biased, but I believe that our place in English football is nowhere else but the top.Milan are 7 times European champions, but look at them now. Of course, there will be challengers, but we need to have that ambition all the time.
Great post by the way.
I assure you that most of the foreign based/non local supporters would love to live so close to OT. I got mates who are foreign based who pay for a season ticket just to come to OT 3-4 games a year. Others who work second jobs or they remained single just to afford coming to OT as much as possible. Being local based is a luxury not everyone can afford (although to be fair I wouldn't want to live in that ugly city myself).
Supporters are people, people act to things differently to one another. I find the match goers supporters attitude (standing ovation and clapping when the team is consistently doing badly) as infuriating. However No one should be patronising others on how to support their club you included.
There should be more visible progress though. Another year of scraping into the top four, and even winning a Cup that's become less-and-less important to the big clubs, doesn't really impress.
Thanks mate
To be honest the trophies don't bother me that much, I just want Manchester United to be as ambitious, positive and well-managed as they possibly can be. And at the moment none of those things is true.
This.
+ he seem to think that they are some sort of beacon of morality everyone should be following. That's wrong. Everyone should support the team the way he thinks best (unless he breaks the law of course)
Thanks mate
To be honest the trophies don't bother me that much, I just want Manchester United to be as ambitious, positive and well-managed as they possibly can be. And at the moment none of those things is true.
This
well said.Unfortunately I have , even on this very forum.
It was especially prevalent during the Moyes season too though, when anyone that dared complained was called spoilt.
I came to the realization that Van Gaal wasnt the right man for this job early this season, and it has slowly been reaffirmed.
It would be a serious error of judgement keeping him here, especially as he just has one year left.
Fair enough. That's a perfectly valid view. I can certainly understand it.
Well, fair enough. It is my opinion that they do literally do more, being a major source of revenue and also providing atmosphere (especially our excellent away fans)
Can't believe what you post sometimesz
Just a bit selective there. You should compare the same aspects of each club period, since some will have done worse in some areas than others and we need a fair test. We have the second biggest wage bill in the league so have a lower wage bill than ONE team, Chelsea. This means we can sign the Martial's of this world, Di Maria's, and the Luke Shaw's (young players on high wages) whilst Wenger sends money to Panama.
RE: Net spend, these figures are of course estimates so don't swear by them but I found this table on net spend in the last 5 years; which places us in second place since 2011. Again these are estimates but hey, it's something and it's clear from our collective knowledge of transfers that we would be near the top anyway. Plus with all this transfer leak malarchy we probably have a better idea than ever! Just for the record, since 2003 we are 3rd behind City and Chelsea
Net Spend last 5 Years; Purchased Gross, Sold, Net; Per Season
1 Manchester City £472,800,000, £159,300,000, £313,500,000, £62,700,000
2 Manchester United £432,700,000, £144,400,000, £288,300,000, £57,660,000
4 Chelsea £475,959,000, £277,250,000, £198,709,000, £39,741,800
3 Liverpool £354,100,000, £190,770,000, £163,330,000, £32,666,000
5 Arsenal £258,625,000, £154,600,000, £104,025,000, £20,805,000
6 West Ham £120,600,000, £22,000,000, £98,600,000, £19,720,000
Arsene Wenger's long term vision is shite
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If there's anyone here who believes Andy Mitten and also wants LvG gone at the end of the season, he will have some bad news for you soon.
I am not particularly saying about fans booing. That is a fans choice. I would rather say quiet and not even clap. It's the ones who can't wait to give him a hug for mediocrity. He is taking us backwards and those fans are quite happy to condone it. I am not saying someone should give him a belt round the ear on the way down the steps. Just stop being so joyful when we lose.
Posted this on the Jose thread but its also relevant here...
I spoke to (gasp) a real life friend, and knowledgeable United fan, last night. He is in favour of LVG getting another year - firstly because he thinks LVG has "not done that bad considering all the injuries" and secondly because the main available alternative (Jose) doesn't play good football either. He said a year is a long time in football and better options may be available in another year's time.
All reasonable points to be honest and its interesting to hear what the wider (non-caf) world is thinking.
I spoke to (gasp) a real life friend, and knowledgeable United fan, last night. He is in favour of LVG getting another year - firstly because he thinks LVG has "not done that bad considering all the injuries" and secondly because the main available alternative (Jose) doesn't play good football either. He said a year is a long time in football and better options may be available in another year's time.
All reasonable points to be honest and its interesting to hear what the wider (non-caf) world is thinking.
The lack of ambition is a clear problem but to me it's more the lack of passion that is bothering, I'm probably wrong but I feel that no one cares, @Twigginater talked about traditions and to me a huge part of United tradition is based on passion, ambition and fun.
And if I'm being honest, I think that everyone at United betrailed the club traditions, the matchgoing fans, the gloryhunters/internet warriors, the owners, SAF, SBC, the players...
That club is following AC Milan, a meaningless and soulless entity
Jose doesn't play attractive football? I think he's fine. LVG can't even set a football clinic against easy teams and he's 2/3rds into his 'process'.
LVG's statements in the press is arguably sackable alone.
The non matchgoing fans are a way bigger source of revenue.
I happen to travel a lot and I find Manchester as a bland as can be.
Hopefully the club will prove us all wrong in the end. 'Truth is, that's what United seems to be relying on these days: hope, rather than decisiveness. Hope that Moyes would rise to the occasion; hope that LVG still has it; hope that Giggs might succeeed against all odds and common sense; hope that an aging Rooney will return to excellence; hope that domestic rivals fall away; hope that teams don't fight back after we go one goal ahead; hope that big gestures and statements drown out the rising chorus of concern; hope that Woodward won't be forced by events into making decisions etc etc.
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