LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

Do you want LVG sacked?

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sunama said:
I believe this is our new standard.
The 4th place trophy is now our target, every year.
As long as our manager gets 4th place, the top brass of our club will have big smiles on their faces.
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There seems to be a weird band of fans on here that believe that because we were so successful and dominant for a long time, we are almost due " a poor few years".(Not you, just in general on threads like this)

It doesn't seem to register to them that the reason we are so poor isn't because of a natural order of things, but simply due to making poor decisions after decision. One of those awful decisions has been the retention of this man as our manager, as he is simply not good enough. The one thing he and Moyes seem to have done well though is to fool the gullible into believing that this is where we should be, and almost making the fans feel guilty for expecting so much more. Both managers knew they cant reach such expectations, so they try to change the narrative.

Considering how clubs that have spent millions less than us have performed, and how shambolic we have been , even when facing non league teams, this is simply unacceptable. Fans are unhappy not because we are not as good as Barca, Bayern, Real , PSG and co..its because we dont look a level above the Sheffield Uniteds, the Cambridge's and MK dons of this world whenever we face them.

Thats not good enough, and I dont apologize for thinking so.
 
K2K said:
There seems to be a weird band of fans on here that believe that because we were so successful and dominant for a long time, we are almost due " a poor few years".(Not you, just in general on threads like this)

It doesn't seem to register to them that the reason we are so poor isn't because of a natural order of things, but simply due to making poor decisions after decision. One of those awful decisions has been the retention of this man as our manager, as he is simply not good enough. The one thing he and Moyes seem to have done well though is to fool the gullible into believing that this is where we should be, and almost making the fans feel guilty for expecting so much more. Both managers knew they cant reach such expectations, so they try to change the narrative.

Considering how clubs that have spent millions less than us have performed, and how shambolic we have been , even when facing non league teams, this is simply unacceptable. Fans are unhappy not because we are not as good as Barca, Bayern, Real , PSG and co..its because we dont look a level above the Sheffield Uniteds, the Cambridge's and MK dons of this world whenever we face them.

Thats not good enough, and I dont apologize for thinking so.
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Spot on.
 
Welsh Wonder said:
I think the problem is that endless wheelie isn't wumming, which is worrying
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I think the point he was trying to make was basically, You should always be ready to question and if necessary protest against the direction of your leaders (i.e. the United board) if you believe them wrong. Simply falling in line and allowing to happen/supporting regardless perhaps isn't always for the best, It was an extreme way of placing it but you can... soooort? of see the general point.
 
BennyBlanco said:
I think the point he was trying to make was basically, You should always be ready to question and if necessary protest against the direction of your leaders (i.e. the United board) if you believe them wrong. Simply falling in line and allowing to happen/supporting regardless perhaps isn't always for the best, It was an extreme way of placing it but you can... soooort? of see the general point.
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If that was his point he hid it very well :lol:
 
Nuts said:
If you look at the bigger picture though - a very poor squad by United's standards, the loss of a huge amount of talent, both on and off the pitch, in one go, a lot of players who are good but too young to be consistent, and injuries - I think it's more than acceptable to see CL qualification and a degree of stabilisation as very decent.

The comparison to Arsenal and Wenger is tosh - they're not in a rebuilding period, have had stability for years on a scale no one can compete with and have spent a lot on absolutely brilliant players. It's an unfair comparison.

United are stabilising so that they can be a force again with whoever comes post-LVG. Arsenal have a squad with Özil, Sanchez etc etc. We're not competing on fair terms with them yet.
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Who built this poor squad using £250 million worth of purchases? Who decided to offload this huge amount of talent in one go? Who decided to replace experienced players like Di Maria with Memphis or Nani with Lingaard? Who ridded the squad of experience so that youngsters were our go to in times of injuries?
The last bolded bit :nono: Looks like the myth of LVG the great serial layer of foundations strikes again! he was brought in to be a success now. When he arrived, all the talk was of returning to Europe's elite, and challenging for silverware during his reign. He says he is expected to win the league by the 3rd season so that's all revised agenda surely?
 
Stacks said:
Who built this poor squad using £250 million worth of purchases? Who decided to offload this huge amount of talent in one go? Who decided to replace experienced players like Di Maria with Memphis or Nani with Lingaard? Who ridded the squad of experience so that youngsters were our go to in times of injuries?
The last bolded bit :nono: Looks like the myth of LVG the great serial layer of foundations strikes again! he was brought in to be a success now. When he arrived, all the talk was of returning to Europe's elite, and challenging for silverware during his reign. He says he is expected to win the league by the 3rd season so that's all revised agenda surely?
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Wrong

Van Gaal wants to win the Premier League in 2015-16 and he then has his sights set on being crowned European champions the following May.

"I hope we are in the top four this season because the Champions League suits a club like United, and then maybe the next step is to be champions and then the next step is to be the winners of the Champions League," the United manager said.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...in-next-two-seasons-at-Manchester-United.html
 
Twigginater said:
I am genuinely bemused at the fact that finishing top four and an FA cup wouldn't be a successful season.
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Humiliated in the CL and EL. Not sure why you would want to keep LVG just because he got 4th when he was disastrous in Europe.

Plus I don't think anyone expected use to scrape into the top 4 at the start of the season which is why its not seen as a success. We should have built upon last season and consolidated our position instead of struggling in 5 and 6 for months knowing that we have zero chance at league success.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/season-2-lvg-objectives-and-expectations.405911/

You must be wumming again to think this could be seen as a successful season
 
Stacks said:
Who built this poor squad using £250 million worth of purchases? Who decided to offload this huge amount of talent in one go? Who decided to replace experienced players like Di Maria with Memphis or Nani with Lingaard? Who ridded the squad of experience so that youngsters were our go to in times of injuries?
The last bolded bit :nono: Looks like the myth of LVG the great serial layer of foundations strikes again! he was brought in to be a success now. When he arrived, all the talk was of returning to Europe's elite, and challenging for silverware during his reign. He says he is expected to win the league by the 3rd season so that's all revised agenda surely?
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You can't possibly argue Van Gaal has been given enough to actually rebuild the squad in full though.

He's still making do and mending all over the place. I'd agree that you can question some of the departures, but not all of them.

For me, it's important that he replaced those who left with youth, and that's a great sign.

A lot of you seem to live in cloud cuckoo land. It's an unbelievably competitive league and even before we lost those who LVG has shown the door we'd lost Ferguson, Scholes, Vida, Evra, Rio, Giggs and David Gill etc... That's a hell of a loss for one club to sustain and just carry on.

We could easily be in a far worse position. I applaud our board actually for not firing LvG when they were under immense pressure to. Champion's League qualification and youth development go a long way in my book. We'll come again, and this period will do us good.
 
K2K said:
There seems to be a weird band of fans on here that believe that because we were so successful and dominant for a long time, we are almost due " a poor few years".(Not you, just in general on threads like this)

It doesn't seem to register to them that the reason we are so poor isn't because of a natural order of things, but simply due to making poor decisions after decision. One of those awful decisions has been the retention of this man as our manager, as he is simply not good enough. The one thing he and Moyes seem to have done well though is to fool the gullible into believing that this is where we should be, and almost making the fans feel guilty for expecting so much more. Both managers knew they cant reach such expectations, so they try to change the narrative.

Considering how clubs that have spent millions less than us have performed, and how shambolic we have been , even when facing non league teams, this is simply unacceptable. Fans are unhappy not because we are not as good as Barca, Bayern, Real , PSG and co..its because we dont look a level above the Sheffield Uniteds, the Cambridge's and MK dons of this world whenever we face them.

Thats not good enough, and I dont apologize for thinking so.
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Spot on. My thoughts exactly.

As a fan, it's not about expecting your team to win every game and hoover up every trophy going. It's about expecting your club to fulfil its potential and perform to its level.

Outside football I follow Warrington Wolves, Sale Sharks and Lancashire CCC. None of those clubs is the biggest club in its respective competition. If they finish in a position at or above their natural level in the league, and have a good cup run every now and then, I'm happy.

United's natural level is at the top of English football, by whichever measure you choose to employ (fanbase, stadium size, income or history). The only ones who can probably touch us are Liverpool, who have underperformed for years because of their own mismanagement.

I'm not spitting my dummy out because United aren't winning doubles and trebles anymore; I'm angry because we're not performing to our level. The likes of Leicester and Spurs shouldn't be outperforming us, and we certainly shouldn't be scrabbling to qualify for the Champions League.

If Madrid or Barcelona were struggling to qualify for Europe and playing atrocious football, would you think their fans were being unreasonable for complaining? If Bayern were in that situation, would you call them unreasonable? I certainly wouldn't, I'd say their club must have made some calamitous mistakes and, as people who devoted time and money to following the club, they had a right to be angry about what was going on.

United are in this position because the Glazers didn't spend enough money to replenish the squad between 2009 and 2011, when we were strong and could have attracted the top players in Europe, and because we've appointed two substandard managers who haven't been able to live up to United's traditions. Ferguson spent 20 years harnessing United's glamour and pulling power to create the most successful club in English football, and to see it falling apart in such a feeble, self-inflicted way is absolutely galling.

Like K2K, I don't apologise for being angry about the present situation. If we sit back and do nothing for the sake of being t0p reds, our hapless owners and manager will drag the club further into decline and we'll become an English version of the New York Yankees - a fading giant which is bled dry by the parasites who run it.
 
K2K said:
There seems to be a weird band of fans on here that believe that because we were so successful and dominant for a long time, we are almost due " a poor few years".
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I'm not sure if any fans believe that we should go through some barren years. At least I have not come across any fans who is saying this.

I think our board's aims/targets will become clear, in the Summer.
If LVG gets 4th and stays: then it is clear that 4th place is now where the board expect us to be.
If LVG gets 4th but gets sacked: then it is clear that 4th place is not good enough.

I just want LVG gone: boring football, poor results, poor man-management, unable to attract the right players, unable to utilise players to maximise their performance. This list goes on.
 
It's not that the club is going through a bad patch. I've got no problems with that whatsoever. It's the fact that it looks like the people in charge don't look to have a solid plan for the future. What kind of succession planning is LVG (irrespective of what he serves up) and then followed by Giggs who has no experience for the under 18s much less for a huge club with massive expectations, sponsors to please, a debt to repay etc etc. You have to wonder if they're just living in their own little bubble.

Like it or not, LVG stays and it's not just the football that suffers, but also our standing if we continue playing so inconsistently and making hard work of beating teams way below our level and with far less resources.

The fact that the Adidas CEO or whomever comes out and comments about our 'boring' brand of football surely means that the club can't take any of this for granted?

If the club is set on being arrogant about this, then I'll always be a United fan, but will withhold money I've usually spent for tickets and merchandise. Being a supporter doesn't mean you should sit there and have the club take the piss.
 
Nuts said:
You can't possibly argue Van Gaal has been given enough to actually rebuild the squad in full though.
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Yes I can.
It is clear to me that Woodward has made the biggest transfer budget available to LVG, that I know of.
Woodward put in World record bids for several players in the Summer.
This was done after spending big the previous Summer.
Money is not the issue. If LVG can spend it, he can.

The other problem is of his reputation.
No top class attacker will join us because of the way LVG handles those players.
Think of this: last season we had 2 Galactico class players. Both of them wanted out at the end of the season.
We also put in World record bids for some Galactico class players - none of them came.
Now, this could be a massive coincidence, but I don't believe that to be the case.
 
Sassy Colin said:
I think you should have a lie down mate.

You appear to be the definition of a glory hunter and exactly the sort of fan which used to give us a bad name.

It's you who doesn't deserve to support our club mate, not the other way round.

Your lucky you weren't a supporter in the 70 & 80s mate, although, if you were around then, you'd no doubt have been a Liverpool supporter anyway.
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The funny thing is his profile says he is 63.
 
sunama said:
Yes I can.
It is clear to me that Woodward has made the biggest transfer budget available to LVG, that I know of.
Woodward put in World record bids for several players in the Summer.
This was done after spending big the previous Summer.
Money is not the issue. If LVG can spend it, he can.

The other problem is of his reputation.
No top class attacker will join us because of the way LVG handles those players.
Think of this: last season we had 2 Galactico class players. Both of them wanted out at the end of the season.
We also put in World record bids for some Galactico class players - none of them came.
Now, this could be a massive coincidence, but I don't believe that to be the case.
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We put in bids for that sort of player under Ferguson too, and more often than not they didn't come.

We used to say Manchester United makes great players rather than buys them - Martial and maybe even Memphis are very much the progression of that.

United haven't spent anywhere near enough for them to win the league. We're at the start of a new cycle having lost an enormous amount of talent. Chelsea and City could challenge by spending that because they've had less upheaval in their squads. We've lost most of a back four, never had a midfield, and lots of attackers. We lost all time PL greats in Scholes and Giggs who are irreplaceable and suffered the biggest power vacuum imaginable when Fergie left. 250m in today's money isn't going to begin to sort it out. It's going to take a lot more, and a lot of time and patience too.
 
Nuts said:
You can't possibly argue Van Gaal has been given enough to actually rebuild the squad in full though.

He's still making do and mending all over the place. I'd agree that you can question some of the departures, but not all of them.

For me, it's important that he replaced those who left with youth, and that's a great sign.

A lot of you seem to live in cloud cuckoo land. It's an unbelievably competitive league and even before we lost those who LVG has shown the door we'd lost Ferguson, Scholes, Vida, Evra, Rio, Giggs and David Gill etc... That's a hell of a loss for one club to sustain and just carry on.

We could easily be in a far worse position. I applaud our board actually for not firing LvG when they were under immense pressure to. Champion's League qualification and youth development go a long way in my book. We'll come again, and this period will do us good.
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Well if £250m isn't enough to build a squad from scratch then maybe he shouldn't have had to! If he had been willing to work on the talented but underperforming players we had like Nani, Hernandez, Evans to name a few we wouldn't have had to spend the amounts we spent on the likes of Rojo and Darmian who have disappointed whilst having Nani around would have allowed the likes of Memphis time to settle in without hurting the team much. When Moyes left we had a deep, eexperienced albeit unbalanced squad and LVG has spent £250m to arrive at this point where our squad has no quality, no depth and is massively off pace with where that sort of investment should have taken us.
 
itso 7 said:
Well if £250m isn't enough to build a squad from scratch then maybe he shouldn't have had to! If he had been willing to work on the talented but underperforming players we had like Nani, Hernandez, Evans to name a few we wouldn't have had to spend the amounts we spent on the likes of Rojo and Darmian who have disappointed whilst having Nani around would have allowed the likes of Memphis time to settle in without hurting the team much. When Moyes left we had a deep, eexperienced albeit unbalanced squad and LVG has spent £250m to arrive at this point where our squad has no quality, no depth and is massively off pace with where that sort of investment should have taken us.
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I mostly agree, but you and I aren't party to what goes on inside the club. In at least Nani's case it seems he'd have been out the door whoever was manager.

Klopp's a good comparison here. Gone to 'pool mid season, hasn't sidelined or alienated anyone and is happy working with everyone there as he found them. Not to say there won't be a small clear out over the summer but he's fostered a good spirit already and I bet every player there wants, at least, to stay.
 
K2K said:
There seems to be a weird band of fans on here that believe that because we were so successful and dominant for a long time, we are almost due " a poor few years".(Not you, just in general on threads like this)

It doesn't seem to register to them that the reason we are so poor isn't because of a natural order of things, but simply due to making poor decisions after decision. One of those awful decisions has been the retention of this man as our manager, as he is simply not good enough. The one thing he and Moyes seem to have done well though is to fool the gullible into believing that this is where we should be, and almost making the fans feel guilty for expecting so much more. Both managers knew they cant reach such expectations, so they try to change the narrative.

Considering how clubs that have spent millions less than us have performed, and how shambolic we have been , even when facing non league teams, this is simply unacceptable. Fans are unhappy not because we are not as good as Barca, Bayern, Real , PSG and co..its because we dont look a level above the Sheffield Uniteds, the Cambridge's and MK dons of this world whenever we face them.

Thats not good enough, and I dont apologize for thinking so.
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Spot on.
 
Nuts said:
I mostly agree, but you and I aren't party to what goes on inside the club. In at least Nani's case it seems he'd have been out the door whoever was manager.

Klopp's a good comparison here. Gone to 'pool mid season, hasn't sidelined or alienated anyone and is happy working with everyone there as he found them. Not to say there won't be a small clear out over the summer but he's fostered a good spirit already and I bet every player there wants, at least, to stay.
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That was the smart way to go about things because most of the players we let go weren't beyond salvage and that's before we consider the likes of M. Keane. Some would say the problem was in not replacing them adequately but to me the issue was that our clearouts were too drastic especially the 2nd one. Like what Klopp and Pochettino have done at their respective clubs, blend the existing players with the new ones and jettison the truly hopeless ones because you can't build a team from scratch like Van Gaal has done - its truly terrible management. The amazing thing is that the only truly special player signed by that £250m is deadline day panic buy.
 
itso 7 said:
That was the smart way to go about things because most of the players we let go weren't beyond salvage and that's before we consider the likes of M. Keane. Some would say the problem was in not replacing them adequately but to me the issue was that our clearouts were too drastic especially the 2nd one. Like what Klopp and Pochettino have done at their respective clubs, blend the existing players with the new ones and jettison the truly hopeless ones because you can't build a team from scratch like Van Gaal has done - its truly terrible management. The amazing thing is that the only truly special player signed by that £250m is deadline day panic buy.
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How has Klopp done that? He's blended the new players (Caulker) with the old ones? Jettisoned the rubbish (giving Mingolet a 5 year deal?)
 
Nuts said:
You can't possibly argue Van Gaal has been given enough to actually rebuild the squad in full though.

He's still making do and mending all over the place. I'd agree that you can question some of the departures, but not all of them.

For me, it's important that he replaced those who left with youth, and that's a great sign.

A lot of you seem to live in cloud cuckoo land. It's an unbelievably competitive league and even before we lost those who LVG has shown the door we'd lost Ferguson, Scholes, Vida, Evra, Rio, Giggs and David Gill etc... That's a hell of a loss for one club to sustain and just carry on.

We could easily be in a far worse position. I applaud our board actually for not firing LvG when they were under immense pressure to. Champion's League qualification and youth development go a long way in my book. We'll come again, and this period will do us good.
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Pochettino had the same job to do in terms of rebuilding. In fact he had more to do considering we were ahead of Spurs and have more financial muscle. Ranieri had a tougher rebuild considering they nearly got relegated. Both have exceeded him this season.

EDIT: and are challenging for the league so yes £250mill on purchases is enough to challenge for the league this year
 
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Twigginater said:
How has Klopp done that? He's blended the new players (Caulker) with the old ones? Jettisoned the rubbish (giving Mingolet a 5 year deal?)
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Klopp hasn't as yet, you are right on that but the point was mainly to do with avoiding massive clearouts. The huge clearouts we embarked on only served to stretch the money we've spent to include signing squad players who are no better than the ones we sold. Back to Klopp, giving Mingolet a five year deal won't stop him signing a better goalie whilst Pochettino has utilized a large number of players he found at Spurs and improved them which meant that he didn't need to spend that much on new players.
 
Nuts said:
We put in bids for that sort of player under Ferguson too, and more often than not they didn't come.

We used to say Manchester United makes great players rather than buys them - Martial and maybe even Memphis are very much the progression of that.
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Let's just ignore the fact that we spent around 60m to bring in those two players. Also let's not remember that it was LVG the great youth coach that has gone out of his way to bring in the likes of Di Maria, Falcao, Schweinsteiger and has spent more than enough on established players like Herrera, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Blind and Rojo. This great buzz about youth only began with our inevitable injury crisis during this disaster of a season, before that there was no talk of Rashford, Borthwick Jackson, Varela etc. and Lindgard was considered a fringe player at best. LVG was supposedly setting us up to challenge for major trophies and a real title challenge, now that we've failed in Europe, are barely hanging onto a top 4 challenge and hoping for a cup win we've regressed to 'focusing on youth and foundations'. It's utter nonsense that goes completely against the talk, expectations and hopes for this season. Not to even mention the putrid football we've played and countless players out of form.

Nuts said:
United haven't spent anywhere near enough for them to win the league.
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Hahahahahahahaha
Nuts said:
We're at the start of a new cycle having lost an enormous amount of talent. Chelsea and City could challenge by spending that because they've had less upheaval in their squads. We've lost most of a back four, never had a midfield, and lots of attackers. We lost all time PL greats in Scholes and Giggs who are irreplaceable and suffered the biggest power vacuum imaginable when Fergie left. 250m in today's money isn't going to begin to sort it out. It's going to take a lot more, and a lot of time and patience too.
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Well it's decided, 800 million more over 5 seasons under Van Gaal should get us within range of having more than 3 shots on goal at home against Watford, thank god we have some perspective and patience, we wouldn't want to be like Bayern, Barca and Madrid, upholding standards and expectations and such.

Tottenham and Leicester have how many world class players? Like right now? Did they need to spend untold amounts of money over several years to get where they are? They could well both be one hit wonders in a season where United, City, Arsenal all collectively shat the bed, but they both have managers that have set up systems and tactics to get the best out of the players in front of them, something only the most deluded Van Gaal disciple could claim for the man in charge of United.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Spot on. My thoughts exactly.

As a fan, it's not about expecting your team to win every game and hoover up every trophy going. It's about expecting your club to fulfil its potential and perform to its level.

Outside football I follow Warrington Wolves, Sale Sharks and Lancashire CCC. None of those clubs is the biggest club in its respective competition. If they finish in a position at or above their natural level in the league, and have a good cup run every now and then, I'm happy.

United's natural level is at the top of English football, by whichever measure you choose to employ (fanbase, stadium size, income or history). The only ones who can probably touch us are Liverpool, who have underperformed for years because of their own mismanagement.

I'm not spitting my dummy out because United aren't winning doubles and trebles anymore; I'm angry because we're not performing to our level. The likes of Leicester and Spurs shouldn't be outperforming us, and we certainly shouldn't be scrabbling to qualify for the Champions League.

If Madrid or Barcelona were struggling to qualify for Europe and playing atrocious football, would you think their fans were being unreasonable for complaining? If Bayern were in that situation, would you call them unreasonable? I certainly wouldn't, I'd say their club must have made some calamitous mistakes and, as people who devoted time and money to following the club, they had a right to be angry about what was going on.

United are in this position because the Glazers didn't spend enough money to replenish the squad between 2009 and 2011, when we were strong and could have attracted the top players in Europe, and because we've appointed two substandard managers who haven't been able to live up to United's traditions. Ferguson spent 20 years harnessing United's glamour and pulling power to create the most successful club in English football, and to see it falling apart in such a feeble, self-inflicted way is absolutely galling.

Like K2K, I don't apologise for being angry about the present situation. If we sit back and do nothing for the sake of being t0p reds, our hapless owners and manager will drag the club further into decline and we'll become an English version of the New York Yankees - a fading giant which is bled dry by the parasites who run it.
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Well said
 
sunama said:
I agree with all your points Arytonblue, but this was my favourite.





I genuinely laughed at this.
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Good for you. Seriously, are you for real? We went into the season with just Rooney up front, buying Martial on deadline day and playing him on the wing. You think that's enough to win the league?

Do you not realise the utter idiocy of saying 'well what about Leicester'?

How many times has a team like Leicester won the PL? They're a complete freak - it's nearly always the highest spending team that wins.

It's pretty obvious United are short of several players, so equally obvious that we've not spent enough.
 
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