Worryingly the guy who wrote he is definitely staying, is very well connected. Marcel van der Kraan
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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I agree.
I cannot stomach another season of LVG and his horseshit.
Enough is enough
You my friend are my only hope, I just pray you're right as I'm starting to worry
Long live LVG!
Very depressing news. I really don't think I have it in me to watch another whole season of LVG football. What could the club possibly be thinking if true?
Very depressing news. I really don't think I have it in me to watch another whole season of LVG football. What could the club possibly be thinking if true?
Didn't Steve Bates also say on Sunday Supplement that his info was LVG has been having a say and some control over the pre-season stuff? Kinda ties in with this Dutch report. I am starting to think he is staying
The only thing that makes sense is that the Glazers feel that Mourinho will want to spend too much money. LvG is probably happy with continuing playing youth and then adding one or two big names.
1. All I'm saying is, Mou has managed a lot of games. Many finals as well, many important games in league. How many of them would you classify as memorable? A classic? Just look at last season. Apart from Everton game you cant recall any game, and even the everton game will be forgotten in a couple of years time. We call LVG boring, isn't Mou equally if not more boring?
2. Its not about policy, but basically trusting your players. Look at Kenedy this season. He was a bright light in their team whenever he played, but how many chances did he get? We blame LVG for being biased towards certain players, isn't this very similar?
3. 26 years, I don't remember Ferguson abusing someone! Certainly not at Mou's level, when he called Wenger Voyeur. Sure there will be controversies but the no. of controversies Mou finds himself in every year is just too high. Look at this season, or even Madrid's last season. Although I basically highlighted his 2 mot controversial seasons, but the point I'm making is the off field antics are in the news more often than the on field performance. If you want Man Utd to change their name to Manchester United Reality Show or Manchester United Entertainment Club, sure Mou is the right guy.
4. Mou ended that season not in UCL finals BTW. Again the point is the controversies. Publicly speaking against owners, taking sly digs, creating a mess at RM, etc., This season at Chelsea is the skeleton of Mou's 3rd season
5. Again 5 year cycle depends on your starting point. This was the year he should have rebuilt. And while its easy to say looking at their performances in the season, it just adds another point in list of cons on his side. This as the only con would have been good, this one among 2-3 cons would be acceptable like in case of Ancelloti, Simeone, bu this among a long list of cons should ring alarmbells that are we this desperate to win that we don't care about anything!
Hang on. That's LVG you have described (youth, excepted). Not Mourinho.
And I don't understand the boring football tag, regarding Jose.
Jose's teams score bucket loads of goals, with intense attack. Have you actually watched a full season of his teams play?
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SOS Gus Hiddink
You're framing the question wrong - there shouldn't be a lengthy pro or con list. The only metric that matters is winning, because it has an extremely powerful knockon effect in terms of how the club is perceived, the size of the fan base, fan satisfaction, attracting top players, as well as the commercial aspects. And there really is no better manager than Mourinho to advance that cause because he has successfully won trophies everywhere he's previously managed. Its really that simple.
If it does end up only 2 games that will be woefully under-prepared. OK the lads at the euros will have been playing all summer, but the lads who haven't surely that isn't enough. It's as though he is running a Darby and Joan football team.
In title winning season with Chelsea- 73 goals at 1.92 goals/game! And that is a not so good no. when you are winning the league. Add to that the goals were scored at standard deviation of 1.26, pointing that there will be more than enough games which are goalless! There were 16 games in a title winning season where they scored 0 or 1 goal!
How many games from last season of Chelsea do you remember? Maybe just the Everton one? How many of all his games do you remember? How many would you remember 5 years from now?
bring in the LVG. why the feck not
screw you Jose
screw you Jose
.
It is more goals than we are going to score with this management and if you haven't noticed we are nowhere near winning the league. All he is bothered about is not losing, he's a coward. Don't bring the kids into this either about him being brave, only Rashford, CBJ and TFM look really promising and we will see how promising they look in the future, when it isn't just fun for them and the future of the club is on their shoulders.
Ehhhmmmm... Our current team has scored 39 in the league to date..
Exactly, the way we play it will be amazing if we reach 50 goals. Imagine a Manchester United side who can't score 50 league goals. Attack! Attack! Attack! Bollocks! Bollocks! Bollocks!
I have said this earlier too, Want LVG gone, but it doesn't make sense to hire a manager who doesn't address/ slightly address our biggest problem. I mean it will be LVG all over again. We'd give Benefit of doubt in 1st season saying new manager will take time, blah blah, but then the 2nd season we would still be scoring similar amount of goals and will be saying Mou Out...
The replacement should atleast address the biggest concern: attacking football. Slight improvement isn't the correct solution. Even guys like Moyes would give you that sort of improvement.
And as far as the argument of winning titles wherever he has gone to is concerned: LVG won the league in Netherlands with Ajax and AZ! won league in Spain and Germany, Won UCL with Ajax, was successful with Netherlands in WC. YOu can't predict how a manager will perform result wise, but every manager has a set rulebook of how his team is to look like: like Klopp's teams are always pressing, Pep's passing around. With Mou it comes down to try and score a goal in 1st 15 minutes and then bore the stadium- and that's what we'd complain.
But surely winning is the main thing.
Everything else is secondary.
The only time where people say "its the taking part that counts" is in schools.
The moment money comes into the equation (ie. professional sport) winning is the most important factor.
What makes you think that we won't score lots of goals under Jose?
In every team he has managed, that team scored huge numbers of goals.
I think Madrid, he put up some sort of record for goals scored.
Last year, Chelsea scored big numbers.
I don't understand this rhetoric about Jose teams not scoring goals.
Where are you getting this information from?
Has it ever not worked? It works because his games are literally almost over by half team. He loves the prem as it is more competitive and next season even more so. We moan about his boring football but his teams score shitloads of goals... But yet everyone would be happy with Simeone who plays the same football.
Winning how is important! Do you want to be a respected team or do you want to become a Legendary team. Mou with all his might can't ever build a legendary side. He may sign Legendary players but cant build a legendary side, because to do that you need to have had memorable games. And there hardly are any memorable games. The most memorable moments involve controversy rather than inspiration
Seems like you're letting your personal distaste for the man cloud pragmatic judgement going by some of the hyperbolic commentary at display here, and in previous comments.
To quote one particular part of several exaggerations:
Really? We're going to conflate one of the Top 3 managers of the last decade and a half with David Moyes on a relative improvement basis?
To address the overall tone of the post - our biggest problem isn't the lack of attacking football. Might be hard to come to terms with that, but it's lower down the order. Our biggest frailties right now are a distinct lack of cohesion, structure and winning mentality - all of which Mourinho brings in spades (his last season now-withstanding, because an aberration or two don't a career make). Playing swashbuckling football is all well and good in theory, but it's not the only way to play it, especially when the club has essentially been brought down to its knees. Professional sport is a competitive environment with tens of millions and more at stake for the clubs. That might sound a bit cynical, but that's the nature of the modern beast, and holding onto uber-romantic notions where 'entertainment' takes precedence over success (especially for the clubs of United's stature) will impede the progress we could have under a manager like Mourinho.
A lot of fans (or atleast someone like me) would be relatively content with United evidencing a sense of passion and drive that's been sapped out of the club by Fergie's successors, and very few managers can rekindle Fergie's sense of infectious passion - José being at the very top of that list. What transpired in Madrid, or at Chelsea should have a bearing on his overall assessment, but - both those clubs have major power brokers, factions and player rackets with them downing tools to oust the manager. That can lead to a toxic environment, and even in that - Mourinho was the longest serving manager for both clubs in donkey years. The fact that both clubs booted managers like Ancelotti after a couple hickups are a testament to their kneejerk nature. And to further touch upon the 'Mou it comes down to try and score a goal in 1st 15 minutes and then bore the stadium- and that's what we'd complain', I'll just leave this here:
Yep, that aligns perfectly with the supposed score a goal and sit back ideology. Contrary to the narrative, the man has always been there or thereabouts in terms of goals scored - throughout his career. Is he ruthless and pragmatic rather than a gambler who just goes all in? Yes, definitely. But, he's not the pantomime defensive whackjob he's portrayed to be.
Least goals scored by PL winning teams:
1. Man Utd 67 1992-93
2. Arsenal 68 1997-98
3. Chelsea 72 2004-05
3. Chelsea 72 2005-06
5. Chelsea 73 2014-15
Thats all 3 of his seasons in top 5 list!
The answer to What makes me think we wont score as many goals under him is the same as your answer to what makes you think we will win trophies
Honestly, who cares about any of that ? Do you think Chelsea fans are suicidal after having won 3 leagues but only scoring 73 goals ?
No goals in the first half in 2/3rds of our matches at OT. More than 10 matches with less than 2 shots on target. Literally hours and hours of football watched without us actually trying to get the ball into the opposition net.
I watch football to be entertained. Not to gloat about boring teams to 5th spot, or even 4th spot.
LVG's football with United is the worst of any team I've ever seen. It doesn't even have the comic relief of relegation fodder. There's nothing to enjoy. And if you're someone who watches sports for the thrill - what's the point?
At this stage, I'd much rather we played without a manager, lost every match for the rest of the season but at least had a go at playing football. The Moyes season was far, FAR more enjoyable than this, for the 90 minutes each week I dedicate to watching us.
I watch football to be entertained. Not to gloat about boring teams to 5th spot, or even 4th spot.
LVG's football with United is the worst of any team I've ever seen. It doesn't even have the comic relief of relegation fodder. There's nothing to enjoy. And if you're someone who watches sports for the thrill - what's the point?
At this stage, I'd much rather we played without a manager, lost every match for the rest of the season but at least had a go at playing football. The Moyes season was far, FAR more enjoyable than this, for the 90 minutes each week I dedicate to watching us.
So what? You do realise that Manchester United need, yes need to be winners. In this day and age that is all that matters. Yes we would like better football, but the kids coming up as potential fans want to support a team that wins, not just plays pretty football. Once you start winning then the pretty football can be introduced. At this moment, we will not pull the class players who will lift us to that level, unless we bring in the right manager. Why would someone want to play LvG? No reason. Oh yes he bring kids through, no Warren Joyce brings kids through. If we don't get the right manager, it will be loads of kids and midtable football or worse. You think if we have another season like this Martial will stick around, no chance in hell.
It is, its the worst, I've been to Pulis in division 4 games before, at least when watching his football he has up and at 'em battlers, even with the ball being whacked forward over the top at least it's... forward play, LvG's football is the most cowardly I've ever had the misfortune of bearing witness to.
The state of the first half vs Everton on sunday, where we hadn't had a shot on goal and his response to the players being " Be more patient " sums that clown up, he needs to feck off, pronto.
bring in the LVG. why the feck not
screw you Jose
Because we're losing fans, money, respect, the will to live while watching games, the ability to recover. United can feck off if they keep LVG.
I agree that we need addressing of Defence and structure as well, but fans have turned against LVG because of lack of positive football. The question that should be subsequently be asked is " does Mou address those concerns?" He doesn't for me. And while I agree in today's money market in football success is important, but so is entertainment. The reason why we are an admired club and equally hated as well is because of the romanticism we bring to football, the injury time wins, the fact that there would be a boy playing amongst the men and thats what gets fame and recognition
And as far as the table is concerned- its interesting that Mou's 3rd season at Chelsea was ignored where they scored 64 goals and also Unaio Leiria season was ignored where they weren't in top 5 even (although I would concede they overachieved that season)
I can't handle another season with football like this....
let's face it, the number of goals a has scored under Jose is completely dependent on the squad he has available to him and the league he's playing in.
I'd argue that the three times he won the league with Chelsea was when Arsenal / United still had fantastic squads, plus other teams in general were (ie. Everton under Moyes, Liverpool etc) also tough to beat, hence the low number of goals.
Put that against the Real squad he had with Ronaldo etc and the league they play in and you can see why they scored 100+ goals
I'd argue that the three times he won the league with Chelsea was when Arsenal / United still had fantastic squads, plus other teams in general were (ie. Everton under Moyes, Liverpool etc) also tough to beat, hence the low number of goals.
Put that against the Real squad he had with Ronaldo etc and the league they play in and you can see why they scored 100+ goals
spot on.
Another season of this man, and I will accept our fate.
That we are simply Top 4 chasing team with no ambition to challenge for the league or the European cup.
It will make the season less strenuous though. Zero expectations, and just another one to run down until the end of his career.
But at least we will be making millions in shirt sales, and will still be the biggest club in the world
That we are simply Top 4 chasing team with no ambition to challenge for the league or the European cup.
It will make the season less strenuous though. Zero expectations, and just another one to run down until the end of his career.
But at least we will be making millions in shirt sales, and will still be the biggest club in the world
No, that's maybe how it started but fans have turned against lvg because they realise that we are regressing under him, and by that I mean in most facets
We were hated mostly because we were relentless winners for 20 years under an unbelievably driven (and antagonistic) manager and a team of players who reflected the manager. Now we have stopped winning, the hate has gone down. Now we just bore people.
And our own fans too.
Battling for 4th again with a squad arguably weaker than last years. The football on show has been considerably worse, an absolute shit show in Europe and he'll be gone in 14 months regardless. There's no point whatsoever in keeping him. He'll be gone by the summer and we can all dance a little jig.
He's staying...If he wasn't sacked after the horror show that was December and January, he's not getting sacked now.
Only one question remains.....Will Giggs get a stand named after him or statue, before or after, he takes over in 2017?
Only one question remains.....Will Giggs get a stand named after him or statue, before or after, he takes over in 2017?
I do agree that LVG has been poor, and actually I was saying this since last season's game vs WHU where he gave a presentation to prove Big Sam wrong. There is no denting everyone wants him gone. All I'm saying (and I think most guys who don't favour Mou coming in would be saying so too) is he comes with a lot of problems. the pros of having him are based pretty much on speculation. I mean, Look at LVG- when he came in, the arguments being raised to support the appointment were similar to what we are saying for Mou. Proven winner, won trophies in every country and club, etc. With LVG there was another pro of him using Youngsters. The cons list in LVG was pretty short- Just the fact that he can be a rigid and a stubborn man. With Mou, we are talking about a longer Cons list and equally long pros list and saying Mou will be a terrific appointment. I mean, in past few pages there have been posts that say that despite the fact he may leave the team in tatters, he is the manager who we want for short term. Its actually a choice of whether you want club to win trophies consistently or do you want club to retain its positive image that it has developed.
For me, its the latter option because a title winning team may take 5-6 years to build but image building may take 10-20 years!
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