Nothing changes still want him gone.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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I hate the term but it's kneejerk to the extreme.
There's no point him staying anyway, and even if he did better next season we could be in trouble if he then leaves and there's no one left to replace him.
No, Liverpool are irrelevant to the situation.
He still needs to go. Two games won't change anything, we will be back to our usual selves in no time.
We are *so* much more mobile as a team without Rooney, Fellaini and Schweinsteiger playing.
Rashford yesterday was running channels, holding it up, making himself a nuisance, not just standing around in the centre circle waiting for the ball to arrive.
Varela also looks sharper than either Darmian or Young and Fosu-Mensah did really well after coming on too.
If LVG stays he must now realise that in order to consistently win football matches you can't have the spine of the team being slow and ponderous (although we got away with it with Blind/Carrick as CB yesterday).
I actually wouldn't mind him staying if he would stick with this style of play, but I fear as soon as the youngsters play a few games, the philosophy will overcome them and they'll suddenly start playing 5 yard sideways passes like everyone did before.
Rashford yesterday was running channels, holding it up, making himself a nuisance, not just standing around in the centre circle waiting for the ball to arrive.
Varela also looks sharper than either Darmian or Young and Fosu-Mensah did really well after coming on too.
If LVG stays he must now realise that in order to consistently win football matches you can't have the spine of the team being slow and ponderous (although we got away with it with Blind/Carrick as CB yesterday).
I actually wouldn't mind him staying if he would stick with this style of play, but I fear as soon as the youngsters play a few games, the philosophy will overcome them and they'll suddenly start playing 5 yard sideways passes like everyone did before.
Fickleness of modern football fans.
I changed it because I think that it's not the right time to sack him, he should have been sacked before the transfer window and only if the club had a manager that they liked.
Embarrassing is an overused word on here, but it is a bit embarrassing mere kids can come in and show up the supposed star players.
It's not necessarily any lack of passion, and they're not better players, but the simple physicality is very effective.
Maybe there should be a sack him at the end of the season option? Or are you really considering keeping him on now because we beat Arsenal?
If we have a good successor that isn't Mourinho, I will vote for a "Sack him at the end of the season". I can live with Mourinho too but at first I won't be happy.
Completely agree, although I would argue that just having watched Rashford twice I would say he is currently a better player than Rooney. Its not just about the goal scoring the general movement and ability to keep the ball and stretch the defence is also superior. Rooney is shot physically, too many miles on the clock. He's played more senior games than many 35 year olds have and given his natural shape I can't see his pace or mobility returning and they are essential in his position. He isn't good enough to do a Giggs and move into midfield either.....
It'd suit all sides if Rooney can come back and get those 5 goals to level Charlton.
Then we can all part mutually in the summer, and he can go and take a ridiculous even by his current deal wage in China or somewhere.
If he doesn't get those 5 goals, there's surely no way he'd leave, and lose the chance of such a standing, possibly a permanent one, unless we think Rashford can do a similar job over the next 12 years.
I was one of the few defending him to a certain extent, but previously said, lose any of the last 3 games and that would be the tipping point. Hes got through them, however his job is still in the balance though, as the season mostly rests on the knock out comps.
Also mentioned what a dead weight, Rooney has become. Now the team is not focused around him, there is pace and directness upfront, which brings more fluidity, something Van Gaal should have addressed in the Jan window, but whatever you want to call it, luck or not, with Rooney out, raw pace and energy inserted, just shows the capabilities of the team.
Also mentioned what a dead weight, Rooney has become. Now the team is not focused around him, there is pace and directness upfront, which brings more fluidity, something Van Gaal should have addressed in the Jan window, but whatever you want to call it, luck or not, with Rooney out, raw pace and energy inserted, just shows the capabilities of the team.
Win the Europa League and FA Cup and he could well call it a day anyway. We're more than capable of winning both.
I want him gone, but are you not allowed to enjoy a win anymore? He's here till the end of the season, no point in that spoiling results like yesterday
I am convinced and have been for quite a long time that we will not win trophies under Van Gaal.
When he stumbles across something that works (just like last season) it seems to reinforces to him that his original ideas will now work. I am convinced that keeping him will result us reverting to form. He's already stated again that Rooney is undroppable, once he is fit, he's back in the team.
The part about players maintaining their position is something he truly believes in, and we will see that again.
We have been here before (the Spurs, Pool, City trifesta)...people are far too easily turned.
When he stumbles across something that works (just like last season) it seems to reinforces to him that his original ideas will now work. I am convinced that keeping him will result us reverting to form. He's already stated again that Rooney is undroppable, once he is fit, he's back in the team.
The part about players maintaining their position is something he truly believes in, and we will see that again.
We have been here before (the Spurs, Pool, City trifesta)...people are far too easily turned.
like a week??
My point is, people seem to be happy enough once in a while with results like this. Heck, people have started to think about giving him the next season just based on last week. That's what I called short minded and not looking at the whole season in a perspective.
We've turned a corner, get the feck in.
I am in full agreement with you on that. They shouldn't be able to compete with us over a season so we shouldn't look at them as a rival.
However there are some of our fans who like it to be simple, and knocking Liverpool out of their last hope of silverware might just convince them everything's on track again.
So the long term perspective is with those who call for a sacking after a couple of poor months in a big rebuild?
Those people would be idiots.
Oh sure we're not in the CL next season and we didn't win anything, played shit boring football 90% of the time but at least we knocked Liverpool out of the Europa League, give the man a new contract?
No thanks.
That's a nice way of spinning a terrible season for a club of our stature that has spent as much as we have the last three seasons. When does this 'big' rebuild end? Next season? 2018? 2020?
If there was a simple 'sack at the end of the season' option i'd change my vote to that (from 'sack him now' which i chose when the poll started), the evaluation is already conclusive but we've gone well past the point where sacking him now will make a difference to this disaster of a season.
Yeah the options aren't great.
Evaluate at the end of the season makes it seem like you'll reassess your opinion and maybe give him another season, when in reality, most want him just to go then.
Officially changing my stance to reevaluate at the end of the season. Partly because it's too late for us to gain anything from sacking him, but also partly because there have been some small signs that we might be on to something again (false dawn). I maintain that if we fail to qualify for the Champions League, he must go though.
We're going to finish the season with LVG, no question about it. Jose still seems like the best option for us and I can't imagine that he would be oblivious to the club's tradition/policy toward young players.
Question..
Do we think players like Rashford, Fosu-Mensah, Varela etc would get a go under Mourinho?
Or we would just spend 100m and buy xxxxx?
Do we think players like Rashford, Fosu-Mensah, Varela etc would get a go under Mourinho?
Or we would just spend 100m and buy xxxxx?
Props to the defiant bastard, he won't just lie down and die.
Like many on here have suggested though, do we really expect us to sustain this form or revert back to type? I'm more inclined to side with the latter. When Rooney's back, he'll find himself back in the side and then it could taken him half a dozen or more games to find anything even remotely resembling 'form'. Credit too him for blooding so many youngsters, even if his hand has kind of been forced. There's so much to criticise him for, but you can't criticise him for denying young players a chance.
Personally, I'm in two minds right now. I was firmly in the LVG Out camp, just like most of you, but would now really be the time to sack him? The only realistic alternative to him, is Jose and even though I like him a lot, the likes of Varela, Rashford, Mensah, etc, could find themselves forgotten men under him. Like someone above said, hopefully he's able to adapt and gives young players more of an opportunity.
Ultimately, winning is what comes first, but actually have some exciting youth players for a change who I'd hate to see marginalised and eventually leaving.
Like many on here have suggested though, do we really expect us to sustain this form or revert back to type? I'm more inclined to side with the latter. When Rooney's back, he'll find himself back in the side and then it could taken him half a dozen or more games to find anything even remotely resembling 'form'. Credit too him for blooding so many youngsters, even if his hand has kind of been forced. There's so much to criticise him for, but you can't criticise him for denying young players a chance.
Personally, I'm in two minds right now. I was firmly in the LVG Out camp, just like most of you, but would now really be the time to sack him? The only realistic alternative to him, is Jose and even though I like him a lot, the likes of Varela, Rashford, Mensah, etc, could find themselves forgotten men under him. Like someone above said, hopefully he's able to adapt and gives young players more of an opportunity.
Ultimately, winning is what comes first, but actually have some exciting youth players for a change who I'd hate to see marginalised and eventually leaving.
There is not chance we would hire Mourinho without making it clear to him that he cannot turn a blind eye to the academy, I'm sure this will be rammed home to him if he is given the job ( still holding out for Pochettino personally).
Anyway he'd be a dick to ignore these players, and hopefully by the time he comes they'll be pretty well established in the first team.
This season has shown though that you really can't know what an academy player is made of until you give them a go.
How many players unheard of would have been and gone in the academy because they weren't given a chance.
How many players unheard of would have been and gone in the academy because they weren't given a chance.
I highly doubt Mourinho will be wiling to be told how he's going to manage the team should we hire him or that x number of youth products have to be given chances, you don't hire someone like Mourinho if the intention is to simply improve the club's youth setup. He'd be hired to get the club back to being an elite club challenging for honours. And we arent exactly in a position to be dictating terms to him in the first place, should he be hired we'd be the ones who just sacked their second manager in three years, in all likelihood not in the CL and just after having another poor season, he's the multi-title proven winner with little else to prove so this pipe dream of us 'changing' Mourinho is exactly that, utterly unrealistic, he's the one that has a proven formula that has been successful for over a decade. If the priority is playing youth players we may as well hire Warren Joyce for the first team job.
Fewer than those who were given a chance and nothing came of it...
One of the only reason why I voted for him to stay till the end of the season was the chances he has given to our youth. It may be circumstantial but still he gave them that chance. Throwing Rashford, Fosu Mensah against Arsenal, C B Jo against Chelsea were some ballsy moves. Just read on our FB page that Fosu Mensah and Weir were the 13th and 14th players to have had their first team debut this season. That is fascinating!
Well, credit where credit is due, his youth policy and transfers has been pretty good, but our lastest results aside, this season has been a train wreck in terms of both results and football on display.
Minimum req is CL fotball next year, no ifs and buts about it
Not playing 2 defensive midfielders has been a massive change to the way we've approached the last few games. I think that's due LvG having no choice with BFS out injured and Carrick having to play at the back.
If we were to win the FA Cup and Europa league would people stands toward him soften?
Might depend how it's achieved as silly as that may sound.
Honestly to me, there's nothing he can do to make me want him to stay on as manager beyond this season. I'll still support him of course, but I think a different manager would be best for the club come next season.
"Stature" doesn't win you points, unfortunately. We're in a big rebuild, nearly the entire first team has been replaced, and yes, we'd be fortunate to get top 4 in the first two years. We feel like we "should" be challenging, and we "should" be closing the gap to giants like Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Real Madrid, but the reality is that requires top talent and time. We are on the right road -- building a team -- we should let capable people do their jobs and not focus as much on the short-term.
And not hire Jose Mourinho, who will get us a league win but neglect the long-term.
And not hire Jose Mourinho, who will get us a league win but neglect the long-term.
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