Yes I believe this too, and if is joining us then he will know that this is basically is last chance at a big job in England, and he'll be desperate for it to work out, for that reason I expect to see a completely different Mourinho, but hopefully still the same one who wins alot of trophies.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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Yes I believe this too, and if is joining us then he will know that this is basically is last chance at a big job in England, and he'll be desperate for it to work out, for that reason I expect to see a completely different Mourinho, but hopefully still the same one who wins alot of trophies.
I have lost respect in myself. I have no conviction...I've changed my vote back to evaluate at the end of the season.
The one thing I've always agreed with van Gaal is the decision to have a small squad, with less rotation and more possible chances to youngsters.
That decision is working out nicely at the moment, hopefully it will last.
The one thing I've always agreed with van Gaal is the decision to have a small squad, with less rotation and more possible chances to youngsters.
That decision is working out nicely at the moment, hopefully it will last.
The curiosity to see what he could do with the youngsters is very strong. And them making their debuts is by design to boot which is even more encouraging. This is Manchester United, from the Babes to the class of '92, we love the kids.
Why do we think he could do a lot with this lot, when he couldn't do much with the tonne load of cash he's spent?
Youth more receptive to his ideas than experienced players set in their ways.
He's in his element with youth. I think the way he handled Wilson/Mcnair/Blackett was a bit lazy as he was always talking about signings. Now he's on his way out possibly so go out the way we expected him tocome in.
How much he can do with them, who knows.
I don't think anyone would mind if he pulled another Ajax with our youth products. If he had gone down that road from day one, I personally would've loved it - on principle, you could almost say.
He didn't really do that, though, did he?
He didn't really do that, though, did he?
I agree but you can't really do that without knowing the players, it's not realistic to do that from day one.
How could he do it from day 1 when he would have known nothing about them?
Ideally LVG will teach them how to play and Mourinho will teach them how to win.
I also don't think our crop of players compares with the one Ajax had in the mid-90s. I would rate that batch of youngsters ahead of United's own crop from the same period. Davids, Seedorf, Kluivert, Reiziger and Overmars trumps Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and the Nevilles (although it's a close-run thing).
I don't think United have anything like that calibre of player at the moment. Rashford might turn into a top player, Pereira and Janujaz could be very good, but it's all very much hypothetical at the moment.
It also seems Dutch players 'get' LVG better than players from other countries. Pretty much every success he's had (Ajax 95, Alkmaar, Dutch NT 2014) has been with players from his own country. The only exception is Bayern and even then two of his key players (Robben and Van Bommel) were Dutch.
Maybe his methods only truly work with people who speak his language and understands his parochial eccentricities. It would be the same if, say, Harry Redknapp managed abroad. He wouldn't last 10 games.
It's not about Van gaal but about how the dutch players are developed in general.
What a ridiculous character he is, from hilarious drunk favourite uncle to tedious talentless bufoon and back every 10 minutes. Who can keep up. Not me.
Relax. Not everything is intended as a dig at old man Louis. What I'm saying is that I - personally - wouldn't have objected to him trying to build a heavily youth centred team as a part of his "process", starting back in 2014 when he took over. He began introducing kids straight away, in the pre-season matches, after all. But his actual approach, once the season started, involved both veteran strikers (Rooney and RVP) and a pair of Galactico style signings (Di Maria and Falcao).
Was that horrible and unreasonable? No, of course it wasn't. And most people on here would've called him insane if he had done the very opposite. But if he had done it, and it had paid off, that would have been an actual, undeniable LVG style genius move. What we've seen recently is largely taken as coincidence more than genius - while being spun the other way round by some of his more vocal supporters.
Just read his standard quote that Rooney is his captain and shall always play. If he can't see what's wrong with that then yes, i agree he should just piss off and take Rooney with him.
I don't think it is by design. He can talk about having a small squad to incorporate youth all he wants, but he was playing Young as a fullback before he'd give the youngsters a chance and is only doing so now because he has no other option. Rashford is only getting a chance because he mishandled Wilson and insisted Rooney play every minute of every game. I think he screwed up and stumbled into it, the same way he stumbled into Smalling being our best defender when he was dead set on it being Jones and Blind.
Also these comments destroyed any good will he may have built up with me:
http://www.football365.com/news/van-gaal-rooney-is-captain-so-will-always-play
We have had young/youth players and he made a cock up of them as well.
The truth is that some of the players he has used in the last week, have not been Vangalised. Once he gets a few weeks with them, they too will be cocked up.
He used to be a decent manager, but for the EPL, in 2016, he is a top 4 or top 5 manager. Fans must ask themselves if they are happy to go for top 4 every year or if they want me. If top 4 is enough, then LVG (or Arsene Wenger) is the man.
You trying to seduce us?
I don't think the aim of the rebuild is to have the odd go at the league title once. Tottenham's squad has also been a work in progress for about 5 years now, and it is all right to have a go at the title in this season but it will need some serious strengthening to be a contender for both the title and the CL in the next five years. That's all right, but because it's only Tottenham.
United is still considerably behind in squad quality, and that's not because LvG signings were terrible. That because the net spend isn't that great and Ferguson didn't leave a balanced squad at all and Moyes didn't help either. United is still considerably behind on spending.
If you don't have confidence in LvG for the rebuilding job it would be nonsense to want him for another year. I personally don't agree with that, I know him a little bit longer and therefore have confidence in him, but I can see why you doubt him and this season didn't go according to plan and he's not been making it easy to keep confidence. But that's not the point here.
The point is that the transition from a club led by a single great manager, and already in decline in the latter years, to a club without Ferguson and managers who are there for 7 years max has to be made, and it has to be made without losing/with restoring it's greatness. That has to do with structure, DoF's and things like that, and certainly with a vision on the academy, but also with a style of play and a new squad. If you say that transition should be smooth and fun and done in a year and can't survive a two month crisis, you're just not ambitious as a fan. You want a quick fix and a manager who's a supposed guarantee for a title? You're not gonna get it because it doesn't exist. With or without Van Gaal, the fans must be able to find the patience and not act as spoiled kids because there's no guarantee United will get back to it's glory years at all, ever. There are footballers who want to be stars but don't want to train and won't stay away from the beer and the chips, and they won't make it. There are also clubs who want to win prizes but don't want endure anything, don't want to make long term plans and can't resist the temptation of an appearant quick fix. Those clubs won't make it either.
If LVG genuinely feels that Rooney is indispensible, then fair enough - he's the manager who'll stand or fall by his decisions, after all, so he has a right to stick by his choices. I hope, though, that's the only reason for Wayne's continued selection; if not, then it's very dishonest of LVG (& the club, I guess) not be straight with the fans as to why Rooney 'shall always play'.
That being said though, I believe that's it the former, thankfully - van Gaal genuinely thinks that he can't do without Rooney.
Youve highlighted the risk there though. It can be difficult to change the formula without changing the result. If he starts looking at bringing through kids, or trying to be a bit more adventurous in his approach, or whatever else he might feel is expected of him at United, there is no knowing whether he will have the same success at all. You can never be certain people will replicate their former successes when they change job but as soon as you start asking them to change their approach, even a little bit, you increase that uncertainty. I remember thinking this when the story about Mourinho's letter to the board broke, with one of the tabloid headlines being something like: "I can change." Maybe he can, but at what cost?
The reason he has generally avoided bringing through youngsters might be because he doesnt have a great eye for talent that hasnt fully emerged yet, for example. While he is among the best in the world at parking the bus and instilling defensive organisation, he might not be able to achieve anything like the same impressive results with a more expansive gameplan - not against the tougher opposition anyway. In the latter case its an even bigger leap of faith for me, in a way it is like hiring the best carpenter in the world and setting him to work as a plumber. I have voted for Mourinho, and also want to see us play attacking football, so I am slso in two minds about this, but there is definitely part of me that thinks if he comes we shouldnt encumber him with directions on specific styles of play or quotas for bringing through kids or anything else. If those things are as important to fans as they say, and as important to Woodward, perhaps we should be looking for a manager who has made a name for himself prioritising those things.
Well he actually just added those results to the end of LVG other season crimes and it happens to us more than most. we got something like 1 win in 5 vs the bottom 6 and have lost 4 of the bottom 6 or something like that which is shite. We have actually beaten 2 of the top 6 (Arsenal and Spurs mind you), haven't beaten City, Leicester or West Ham. In terms of the supposed top 6, this season we haven't beaten Chelsea at all so its still 2 victories
Gullit didn't last a year in the eredivisie either. I don't think it's about language, but it's about the WC of 1974, the 1.2 million members of the Dutch FA (about 8% of the total population) and a tradition of amateur football and exercise.
Since 74, very organized football and tactical innovation got in the Dutch football DNA. Even if you're gonna play summernights football in a park in the Netherlands, everybody is looking for triangles, play a positional game and keep the pitch wide, and if a foreigner participates and is playing 'freely' and on instinct, he will get negative comments that would make Van Gaal sound like a smooth diplomat. Also the youth football is very well organized (in this huge Dutch FA), in the teams itself, but also the surroundings. All the young boys get a proper trainer and are tought tactics as everybody thinks they're very important. And with it's tradition of amateur football and clubs for all kinds of physical exercise, it's much more about teaching and making players better than it is about selecting the best players like in Englands long tradition of professional football. The introduction of professional football about 60 years ago never killed the teaching tradition because money could be saved by making the players that are already there better.
So all the Dutch players are used to getting teached a lot and getting lots of tactical instructions, and not play by instinct without using their brains. Germans share a lot of these traditions, they have a huge FA and very well organized youth football, and their tradition is just more about physical exercise. But after the euro 2000 the DFB decided to switch to more tactical and technical schooling of boys and attacking football, and generally, Germans take instruction very well. Van Gaal's German wasn't much better than his English. Any typical English manager would have a difficult time in either the Bundesliga or the Eredivisie because the players expect to be tought and instructed at another level.
But all over the world young people want to learn and learn fast, so it isn't a surprise that LvG has more trouble teaching the old dogs new tricks than he has with the youngsters.
This sort of revisionism seems to be awash on here.
He'd just cruised the league, we had Rafael, Smalling and Jones all young and potential to be really good players, while still having Evra, Vidic and Ferdinand for experience. De Gea was one of the best keepers too, and Evans was also in the mixer to add extra depth.
Striker wise Van Persie was top of his game, and Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez was a good mix there. Valencia and Nani on their day were perfectly decent too.
Yes centre mid needed a top signing, but you can't say this wasn't balanced.
We had more balance then than now! Look at the defences we've had to put out, and the amount of youngsters out wide
Losing against lower teams is always annoying and frustrating.
Saying 2 wins in 'n' matches is just said to continue the negativity which I understand in this thread, however, we have 5 wins in our last 7 competitive matches which paints a different picture. You can only beat who is in front of you.
No one is saying we are wold beaters, turning the corner, but referring to a subset of results adds no value. We are 5th based on our poor season, in the quarter finals of the FA, last 16 of Europa (whether we want to be or not) and we have provided little entertainment this season. That is all that matters, not in the week starting 'n' we won 0. We could say we have 1 in 1 is that even worth discussing.
That's fair enough. I was saying n wins in N matches vs XYZ standard of opponents for the record, but I guess it doesn't matter against who and what the individual results were that got us there, we are still 5th which is all that we should be judged on. If we scraped 4th, I guess it wouldn't matter whether we did that by being shite vs lesser teams and ok vs the top 6. It just doesn't matter I suppose. That said, I did find the Moyes habit of getting annihilated by our supposed rivals unbearable.
How can you say he didn't do much with what we have spent? Nearly every player he signed seemed like a good decision at the time. Most have proven to be just that when they get the opportunity like Herrera martial depay and blind. Falcao and di Maria all the fans rejoiced over as they were top players worthy of the chance. Went on to be given similar chances at Chelsea and psg even after 12 months with us. Darmian looked quality and was a stand out option for the outlay. May yet come good. Same with schneiderlin for me.
Anyone who has changed their mind on LVG on the back of one week of football needs their head examined. Do it between now and the rest of the season and I would still not be backing him to remain another season.
Just goes to show how fickle a lot of football fans are.
Just goes to show how fickle a lot of football fans are.
I'm not fickle but if we continue playing well and see these youngsters doing well until the end of the season there is an argument for allowing him to continue next season with a view to seeing if pochettino can continue on from this season and
Then going for him in summer 2017.
whilst im glad he has given the 'young uns' a chance, and even gladder that a couple of them have really taken their chance, I keep in mind that his hand has been forced in many ways. For example if Arsene Wenger had allowed us to loan his fullback rather than refusing to release to a competitor then we probably wouldn't have seen Varela or CBJ this season. Likewise would we have seen Rashford this season if we had been successful in signing that lad from PSG that ended up going to China? Again, probably not.
So if I take the youngsters out of the equation and look at what he has done over the last 18 months, am I happy with his performance? No
So if I take the youngsters out of the equation and look at what he has done over the last 18 months, am I happy with his performance? No
An aging group of players and youth like cleverely & welbeck lost to city the year before his last. If he had won something then fair is fair and we had a good team.
How SAF fixed a broken team was by getting one veteran player in van persie who year after winning the title was always isn't good as the year before.
The there is Moyes who is a shitty manager, with a shitty squad.
No one here is half of what SAF was and even if we had a class of 92 team it would be wrong to expect that managers can win with arguably a team built for one manager alone.
That's all well and good but we were far away from that. We were far away from a class of 92 a squad of 2008.
IMO this squad will have abundance in talent and squad gaps/fillers. All we need now is to fill the last areas with kids (RW, LCB) and then start to add some players in their prime to help a team of the future to win things Now kn the present.
He did go out and sign some young players for big money instead of signing players he could reasonably expect to deliver quicker results. He did trim the squad allowing easier routes to the first team squad for young players. He is playing these kids and was playing lingard over Mata for example showing its not just injuries forcing his hand.
If he starts playing kids from the off; he is risking his job. If he plays kids when he has to - he has no other option. The fact he planned for this makes no difference. Debuchy would have been an injury away from getting replaced with kids.
"ROONEY SHALL ALWAYS PLAY!"
Just when some optimism has returned, he reiterates this complete nonsense.
Just when some optimism has returned, he reiterates this complete nonsense.
One week in the whole season - one week! Two games which were against, with all due respect, part-timers. This is Man Utd. Have our expectations become so low?
As for Pochettino, good manager yes but don't see a hope in hell of him ending up at Utd.
Correct.
I think that has already happened this season. He took a risk with betting on Rooney and it hasn't paid off. We have to be harsh moving forward, like van Gaal was with the players he sold, which should mean that van Gaal and Rooney shouldn't be at United next season.
when did he say that?
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