I think the last three results have earned him a reprieve. Hopefully (fingers crossed) this up turn in form and playing style continues, the main focus has to be the push for top four or the Europa league. I know neither of which will be easy but Champions league is expected for Van Gaal to keep his job.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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Long term in football is a few games. I see after a week of good results some fans have changed their votes in this thread. Forgetting the fact we've mostly been pretty dire for the entire time LvG has been a manager.
It's hilarious. I mean the season is almost a complete write off; we only have an outside chance of making the top 4 and any decent side will start as favorites against us in both the cup competitions (one of which is a B grade competition we entered after being knocked out of the premier competition), but a couple of decent performances and we should forget everything that has happened in the last 20 months.
That's the problem with hitting the rock bottom, even a mild upturn seems like a major climb. If one thing VG has been successful in, it's in lowering our standards to Liverpool's level. "Next year will be our year".
I enjoyed the last two performances as much as anyone else, but this is similar to Arsenal in the last 10-12 years, start achieving the minimum when everything is lost and project it as a positive. Still, they made the top 4.
Can we have an option of "Sack him after the Liverpool games"?
LVG's tenure till now has been frustrating as he seemed to a very hard taskmaster and not willing to budge from his philosophy. But it does look like the players still like playing for him and that has showed. Maybe LVG has accepted that his way to play is not the only way.
Yes, one week might be too soon to come to this conclusion but i would still stand by him. Watching the game on Sunday felt like United of old. It felt great and this shows that LVG has it in him to change. If we go on a good run and achieve 4th then we should give him next season.
It's all well to sack him and get Jose in but many are forgetting that Jose will bring his own set of problems and thinking he will come and trophies will follow. All the big teams have got new managers on the same level of Jose so it's not going to be easy for him either.
I would still give LVG his next season. Think without players like Rooney, Carrick screwing up united's rhythm United might prosper. Rooney is the main problem why United have been this bad in my opinion coupled with LVG's persistence of doing things his way. Maybe that has changed now.
I think it was @Cal? who said it best.
We seem so obsessed with hiring long term managers and hoping that they turn out to be successes, rather than hiring successful managers and then hoping they stay long term.
Jose himself has said that he wants a long term stint and that he is tired of moving around. This would be a challenge for him, but is one he would relish.
And very few of us are worried about the gap between Bayern, Barca or Real(No English is close, but sadly we even further behind than the top English sides). Its the gap in our own league and poor cup perfomances against league 1 outfits that worry us.
Van Gaal is short term as he is only here for another season, whereas the new manager will be here for longer. It amazes me how people cant comprehend that.
Do you believe that once Wayne regains fitness, VG will continue with the formation we've seen of late? I'm not saying he won't but I've got a feeling he'll go right back to his old methods, particularly as Rooney is club Cpt. and all that.
Spot on.
Its just that I don't trust him. A title challenge would've been nice but top 4 and F.A. cup may have pacified me. But the champions league and premier league campaigns were bordering on embarrassing. Europa league is just a backdoor into champions league due to our failings yet still it offers another crack at the champions league so its fine I guess.
However, the level of football throughout most of his tenure has disengaged me from football. Old Trafford has become a bit of a joke. He has low expectations and we want to be doing well in the 2 main competitions (premier league and champions League). I still feel he will be prone to crazy decisions, a lack of understanding how to succeed in the premier league, whilst I still feel we will struggle again in the Champions League. He will also play Rooney every game(no rashford), probably 2 holding midfielders etc so nothing much will change. He has been forced into these current positives but this isn't his M.O. We have enough evidence from 20 odd months and also the aversion to continue what was working well for us last season.
IF he went to the season with same team, but gave chance to Rashford, Varela and the rest of debutants to prove themselves once he's seen that things just don't work (slow build-up, Rooney out of form, no penetration on the wings, no attacking threat, possesion without end product) I doubt there would be anyone here being unhappy with him since it would show his intent of trying to find solution rather than ignoring the problem thinking his 'philosophy' will solve it itself.
But he's started to play younger players only when there really wasn't any other option (Rooney, Martial, Fellaini, Keane out, Rashford being given the chance), same at RB (Darmian, Valencia, Young out) and other areas of the pitch as well. He could've played them earlier in the season in League Cup or FA cup but was ignoring them, but now when he have so many players out he plays them and takes credit for it, laughable really!
He must go at the end of the season.
But he's started to play younger players only when there really wasn't any other option (Rooney, Martial, Fellaini, Keane out, Rashford being given the chance), same at RB (Darmian, Valencia, Young out) and other areas of the pitch as well. He could've played them earlier in the season in League Cup or FA cup but was ignoring them, but now when he have so many players out he plays them and takes credit for it, laughable really!
He must go at the end of the season.
Yep, things will be back to the usual shite once Fellaini and Schweinsteiger return.
It is ridiculous if people have changed their minds based on two piss-easy matches and (frankly another piss-easy one in hindsight) Arsenal.
I enjoyed it against Arsenal but more in a 'well at least we might get something of value from this season' way. He still needs to go. I don't hate him and frankly I still think he's several levels above Moyes (including his entertaining nature) even if the results don't reflect that but we need a top level coach and he's not it.
That has been my thinking too for a long time now.
Couple of poor months and countless average months....
I didn't realise they done commentary to that. Epic
In 2017 Van Gaal's part of the job is supposedly done, so 2018 seems reasonable to me. It also seems reasonable to me from the perspective of the size of the job. This club as been almost a one man enterprise for almost 27 years, the decline was already on it's way and given the fact that you just can't go out and buy a top squad no matter how much money you spend and there wasn't much top squad to build on, 5 years is needed to get enough new top players in. Big club, big era, big man, big rebuild, why you would think it could be done in 2 years I don't know, but I guess it has more to do with your own impatience than a realistic assessment of what is needed and how much time that normally costst.
Also the season isn't terrible yet, that depends on how it ends. Of course, so far results haven't been good enough, especially in november and december, and there were too many boring matches and too few highly exciting matches to compensate for that. But from the long term perspective, it really isn't that important, mainly because the question is not when United will be back at the top, but if United can get back to the top without Ferguson.
Will he? Also Mourinho will need time to buy world class players because they tend not be for sale all the time. He can win the league with the quality players at Chelsea, but the squad of United won't be at that level soon.
Oh dear, average. Sounds to me like Ferguson was nothing special and him leaving should not make any difference.
I don't buy all this talk about huge time taken to turn things around. Leicester almost got relegated, had a storming last 6weeks, and have now a real chance of winning the league.
All on a slither of our budget.
Tottenham have emerged too.
So it doesn't always have to take ages, and hundreds of millions. Simply about the right manager, style of play and players.
I'm shocked that 3 decent results have some fans believing in LVG again.
WTF!!
He spent 18 months creating a playing style, which didn't work. It was a complete failure. Fans of all teams acknowledged that we were the most boring team to watch, bar none.
So he changed things massively from Newcastle onwards, since which time we have been average.
Rooney gets injured, and we bring in youngsters who have been coached by Warren Joyce, who perform well for 3 games, making LVG look better than he actually is.
When Rooney gets back, we will be back to square one.
In case people have forgotten, our form is akin to a team in the bottom of half of the table.
We are currently in 5th place which apparently is being heralded as a fantastic achievement. Bear in mind that Moyes, who was woeful was sacked for being in 6th/7th place.
LVG is a top 4/5 manager. He proved this last season and is doing so again this season.
If people like 4th place, then they should vote for LVG to stay. If they want to fight for 1st place, LVG is not the man (as he has proved and is currently proving).
I'm pretty sure that he'll be here next season now. I think Woody was always looking for a reason to keep him and this run of wins, coupled with the sudden positive press around him will give him reason to keep Van Gaal.
Personally I think it'll turn out to be one of our biggest ever feck ups if we do, particularly since the idea of Giggs taking over afterwards will probably still be on the cards, but still, I am convinced LVG will be our manager next season.
Personally I think it'll turn out to be one of our biggest ever feck ups if we do, particularly since the idea of Giggs taking over afterwards will probably still be on the cards, but still, I am convinced LVG will be our manager next season.
Fergie got 1st and 2nd place continuously.
Nobody is asking LVG to do the same, because Fergie was extra special.
However, to given a huge amount of money to spend on players and for us to be struggling to make top 5 is unacceptable.
To remind you Mancini got fired after he got MCFC to 2nd place and getting to the FA Cup final.
Pelligrini is being removed, even though his team are in a higher position than ours.
I think the expectations of some fans is now so low, than they deem 5th place as some sort of achievement.
What run of wins ? We've only beaten Arsenal at home and some nano-minnows noone had heard about, who also beat us the previous week.
Exactly, before this 'run of wins' against Arsenal and some absolute nobodies we'd lost 3 of our last 6 and had 5 wins in 18 going back to November. Getting through in the Europa and FA Cup was the minimum expectation.
The counter argument to us lining up in a less cautious fashion has always been that we're too fragile at the back for this to work. Partly, that has some merit – and the Arsenal match certainly showed that we're pretty damn shaky at the back at times.
However, to use this as an argument in favour of LVG and his approach (as his disciples have done) is dubious at best: What any manager could have done is to bring in a considerably more solid (in a purely defensive sense) CB than Blind to pair up with Smalling. Fielding a ball player back there – and often enough a pair of generally offensive fullbacks to boot – will necessarily make us more vulnerable. It may be necessary for LVG (given his insistence on a certain set-up), but it isn't generally necessary – and it's very much open to debate whether it brings the best out of the available players on the whole.
I doubt there is one United fan who thinks that.
He isn't long term so no point keeping him any further as it hampers our chances of getting a good coach quickly who can stay for the next 3-4 years. Also, it would rule out Giggs taking over who isn't ready at the moment and is too much of a risk in the position we are in. However, I hope LVG manages to make these last months joyful like the past week so that years down the line, we can look back and have memories to talk about unlike his predecessor whose mere appearance these days bring out annoyance.
I think it's the posters who never lost faith , it's just that theyve had to stay quiet and only now after a win feel brave enough to spout their deluded nonsense.
To them everything is all part of the grand process. Every failure just a necessary part of achieving the philosophy.
Any idea how many people change their votes?
After year and a half they only needed 3 games against 2 terrible opponents and Arsenal to change their view on van Gaal, those are some special people.
Altough, the caf narrative has changed a lot over last few weeks and we are not talking just about few people, incredible how easily people change their opinions.
We'll lose in another tumescent display to mediocre opposition and the fickle fans will be back on the 'Sack him now!' bandwagon.
When the first team was doing absolutely shit with like 3-4 wins in 5 months. LVG knows we have very gullible fans , who its amazing how far and fast their standards have dropped after 20 years of staying in the top 3.
So he had a big injury crisis so he threw on the youth, and if they had not been as good as they are, no one would be mentioning the youth thing, frankly I dont think he had any choice but to play the kids, due to injuries
The saddest thing in all this, is how much the first team has regressed. Then again young players are not on massive wages, so they still have that hunger, and desire to impress. Personally I believe the main problem in football, especially english, football, is they get too much too young
So he had a big injury crisis so he threw on the youth, and if they had not been as good as they are, no one would be mentioning the youth thing, frankly I dont think he had any choice but to play the kids, due to injuries
The saddest thing in all this, is how much the first team has regressed. Then again young players are not on massive wages, so they still have that hunger, and desire to impress. Personally I believe the main problem in football, especially english, football, is they get too much too young
No-one should change their vote based on the last 3 games. We are still 12 points behind Leicester and out of the top 4. We still didn't get out of the group stage in Europe. We still embarrassingly lost at home to Middlesborough, Norwich and Southampton (again).
Oh, I completely agree with you. But that's how it's being spun. It all seems to be heading in one, inevitable direction....
That's the thing. He's not got to take a risk on someone who's never played in the first team (a Loftus-Cheek for example).
With Rashford, Varela, Lingaard, CBJ and TFM, the hard bit, the debut and the first 5-10 games' nurturing, will have been done for him. They'll have the same sort of experience Robben had when he arrived at Chelsea.
Let's not forget Mourinho has played plenty of home-grown teenagers in the past (Carlos Alberto at Porto, Santon and Balotelli at Inter) and brought in teenagers from elsewhere (Sergio Canales at Inter, Zouma at Chelsea).
The idea that he doesn't trust young players is a myth based on his record with academy players with Chelsea, and none of the managers they've had there over the past 10 years has given any young player an opportunity, which tells you something about the club's priorities and the real strength of their academy.
The circumstances will (hopefully) be different at United.
One thing that's getting my back up is the growing volume of people commenting how Van Gaal supports the youth and how he's turning it around at United.
Lets not forget that the guy had all the money he wanted given to him and he pisses it up the wall buying world class players only to turn then into wooden 1 dimensional puppets to see his philosophy. THIS is the real Luis van Gaal.
The Luis van Gaal that nailed his colours to the mast and made Rooney captain and despite a continuing lack of leadership presence on the pitch has stuck by that decision.
He has brought a player through in Jesse, I'll give you that. But if anyone thinks that that side that's out there playing the exciting football is anything to do with Luis van Gaal and his philosophy is gravely mistaken.
He had his chance and fouled it up and we as supporters and them as club owners have given him a lot more time than many other prem managers will have had.
I'm not fooled. With a full squad he'll be back to his shite tactics and unique brand of possession anti football.
Lets not forget that the guy had all the money he wanted given to him and he pisses it up the wall buying world class players only to turn then into wooden 1 dimensional puppets to see his philosophy. THIS is the real Luis van Gaal.
The Luis van Gaal that nailed his colours to the mast and made Rooney captain and despite a continuing lack of leadership presence on the pitch has stuck by that decision.
He has brought a player through in Jesse, I'll give you that. But if anyone thinks that that side that's out there playing the exciting football is anything to do with Luis van Gaal and his philosophy is gravely mistaken.
He had his chance and fouled it up and we as supporters and them as club owners have given him a lot more time than many other prem managers will have had.
I'm not fooled. With a full squad he'll be back to his shite tactics and unique brand of possession anti football.
Because no other top manager has ever lost out to a non-top tier team. It happens, live with it. Maybe we can do a Fergie and blame the shirts as we did when we lost 6-3 to Southampton or do a Rafa or Jose and talk about conspiracies.
I can understand fans who look at LVG's tenure and argue over the whole the performances have not been good enough, but to pick out specific games and results as though that is some indicator is pretty pointless. Or we may as well say he has an excellent record against the supposed top 6 clubs, therefore he is brilliant.
That's what happens when you're so shit for such a large portion of the season, he's lowered expectations that much. Good win at the weekend and great seeing the younger players doing well but not a chance should he be manager next season.
One win against a crowd of bottlers and people are changing their votes. It beggars belief.
I think everyone who believes LVG should stay just based on the last couple of games is a fool
Overall (if we won´t make TOP4) he was massively unsuccessfull and does not deserve another 10-million managerial year at the club.
Overall (if we won´t make TOP4) he was massively unsuccessfull and does not deserve another 10-million managerial year at the club.
He doesnt deserve another season.
He's had 20 months of mostly failure here. I cant think of 15 good games he's had . At times its been as embarrassing as Moyes era, and for someone with Van Gaal's accolades, that's simply unacceptable.
Another season of his will set us back even further. I'm hopeful that he is definitely leaving at season end. He gets a well deserved retirement, we get a fresh start. An extra season of his vs an new tenure for a new manager. I know which one is more long term.
Maybe he'll go out with his head held high, but we've been here before, i wouldnt be suprised if this was another false dawn. Especially when Rooney and co are fit again.
He's had 20 months of mostly failure here. I cant think of 15 good games he's had . At times its been as embarrassing as Moyes era, and for someone with Van Gaal's accolades, that's simply unacceptable.
Another season of his will set us back even further. I'm hopeful that he is definitely leaving at season end. He gets a well deserved retirement, we get a fresh start. An extra season of his vs an new tenure for a new manager. I know which one is more long term.
Maybe he'll go out with his head held high, but we've been here before, i wouldnt be suprised if this was another false dawn. Especially when Rooney and co are fit again.
Well I disagree with the first point, I'm not saying we will be dictating to him on regular basis, but if he is coming in I firmly believe the use of the youth will have been discussed at length with him, and there is not a chance he will be allowed to completely ignore it.
If the second point is true then we have to steer clear, I would like to think he comes to us with a different approach, one which will see him as our long term manager, and not one who ends up alienating everybody, ignoring the youth, and leaving on bad terms.
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