LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

Do you want LVG sacked?

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Its far too early to give much credit to van Gaal. The last few mobths have been a nightmare that will take a lot more to get over. We do, however, seem to have learnt some lessons. So, good job van Gaal. Please keep it up.
 
That's how it should be. A positive home win against a team like Stoke. Anything other than that isn't good enough for united really. However under current circumstances it was a great result and a massive mood lifter. I actually felt happy for van Gaal tonight. It was good to see him walk away from the dug out after full time looking happy. Even though I have been slating him for the past few months I do wish him all the best.
 
A good performance but we've had good performances before under LvG and they've led nowhere.
 
Two wins against Derby and Stoke can't make me change my mind on Van Gaal. Don't forget what he's put us through, the Southampton defeat was only 10 days ago.

Let's see how we do against Chelsea and whether we're capable of putting together a strong run of wins, because that's the only way we could get into the top 4.
 
LVG has been very good at throwing out the odd performance like this which just about wins people over for long enough to keep his job a bit longer.

He's got a lot to prove still.

Something it does say is that the players are capable of more than they have been for most of the season. Something that some knew, but others were questioning.
 
1 good performance doesn't mean much. 5-10 more like that and maybe there's some progress made.

Let's see how we do vs Chelsea.
 
Its a start, if he can get us playing like that for another 2 or 3 games we can start to feel more positive. hes got a mountain to climb however.
 
Smores said:
You're revisiting your thoughts on LvG because a 50 million plus signing put in a good performance against championship side Derby??

We put out a full team and got the result with a hiccup along the way. I really don't see how he comes out with any credit from that game.
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Don't care what Martial's price tag is, he's absolute quality and we need more players like him.
 
Something that needs to be considered is we need a big summer in the transfer market, we already have a struggle against the 2 Spanish giants and with Pep at City we'll be at best 4th choice for the best players, and that's even if we make top 4. LvG would only have a season left and the fact you could sign for us and end up with your career in Giggs hands a year later would likely put many off.

If he gets us top 4 that is obviously great, but a clean break in the summer with a top younger manager coming in, is inoperative.
 
Papers over the cracks. Stoke were more open which allowed us to hit them on the counter. The 'Philosophy' football will be back against Chelsea or any other side which will park the bus
 
TakeMeHome said:
Papers over the cracks. Stoke were more open which allowed us to hit them on the counter. The 'Philosophy' football will be back against Chelsea or any other side which will park the bus
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Seems to be the case - the system works well when teams come to play and we can hit them on the break. Not so much when they sit deep.

The two Newcastle games highlight the point.
 
Still wont change my mind. Seen this all before. Same as last season, where we just about put some performances together and struggle into Top 4 and then rinse and repeat.

The expectations have been lowered so much in December, that if we finish top 4, it would be considered as a successful season among the club and the fans, which it shouldn't be.
 
Moyes would go a couple of good results then terrible result until the season was gone. The Stoke performance is a good start but we need to go 6-7 games in a row of good results to get something from this season. Beating Derby and Stoke at home should be routine, it just seems a big deal because of what came before it.
 
He somehow manages to give the impression that we still can achieve something substantial this season, maybe even the title. When the illusion disappears, it will be too late even for top 4.
 
TakeMeHome said:
Papers over the cracks. Stoke were more open which allowed us to hit them on the counter. The 'Philosophy' football will be back against Chelsea or any other side which will park the bus
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Pretty much this. Credit where credit due of course, but I just don't see last night as a turning point. Alas, it will have bought him even more time now.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Is this how he wants to play though? Much less possession, passing forward, direct play, basically what we all have been asking for.

If this is what he wants why hasn't he done it sooner, or has he only done it becasue it was basically his last throw of the dice, if so I'm not sure he deserves any credit really, just yet anyway.

He has put is through so much footballing pain this season, and I'm still very much looking forward to seeing the back of him.
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People have complained that he's too rigid in how he manages so he changes it and these same people still moan? Whether that ship had sailed is irrelevant (it wouldn't bother me if he left whatsoever) but if we are going to criticise LVG when we play poorly, be prepared to praise him when we play well.
 
"Evaluate at the end of the season".

Been my vote for a while and think it's what's going to happen. Just get us top 4 and then I think he'll probably walk with some pride in tact.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
Hardly. Have you not seen us the last 18 months?
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Yes, did you see us yesterday? Credit where credit is due, you can give it whilst still holding the view that you want him out.
 
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I was watching him last night during the Munich moment. He was standing up in such an unnatural way what i thought he looks like a puppet. But the desire is there and that is all that counts. He also seems to realize that giving freedom to his players while playing them into their natural positions is more important than the philosophy of possession football. He should secure CL football and we shall decide in the summer if he deserve to finish his career here.
 
Can't see him getting us 4th at all just now, Arsenal and City have too much quality to drop out of the top 4 completely, so that leaves either Leicester, who're looking good to maintain their run towards the title and Spurs who've looked pretty damn solid all year.

I think we'll end up 5th, he'll leave at seasons end and Giggs will come in.
 
SirAF said:
Pretty much this. Credit where credit due of course, but I just don't see last night as a turning point. Alas, it will have bought him even more time now.
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Agree that it's nowhere close to being a turning point. As someone else mentioned, it's a "winning streak of one game". Better than losing / drawing, but beating Stoke at home should really be routine and it speaks volumes for how far we've fallen that we're seeing this as a great result. Not sure about the buying of time though. It's clear that the Board wants him to go till the summer at least or we'd have brought in the new man (Mourinho?) early in January on the back of a horrendous run with the new-manager bump being allied to the opportunity of buying some players too. Since we've not done that, I don't think the result matters one bit. We're going to have to hope for Top 4...and for the Board to bring in a new man (not Giggs please!) in the summer to avoid a rinse-repeat of what happened last season.

ivaldo said:
People have complained that he's too rigid in how he manages so he changes it and these same people still moan? Whether that ship had sailed is irrelevant (it wouldn't bother me if he left whatsoever) but if we are going to criticise LVG when we play poorly, be prepared to praise him when we play well.
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I don't think people mind praising him (I certainly don't) but more that people are quite rightly, questioning whether this is a style that he's adapting to or whether it's just a one-off game before we revert to type. Thus far, Louis has stayed stubbornly rigid in the way he says he wants to the team to play. In several games early in the season, we played s*ite possession football in the first half before playing with more freedom in the second leading to a win. Each time, LvG said he preferred the first half. Against Stoke, we basically played the whole game like we played the second halves of those early-season games. It's therefore logical to ask whether this is actually a shift in style or just a one-off given that the opposition were setup in a nice way for us to capitalize upon.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Is this how he wants to play though? Much less possession, passing forward, direct play, basically what we all have been asking for.

If this is what he wants why hasn't he done it sooner, or has he only done it becasue it was basically his last throw of the dice, if so I'm not sure he deserves any credit really, just yet anyway.

He has put is through so much footballing pain this season, and I'm still very much looking forward to seeing the back of him.
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AZ played like that, so it's perfectly possible that he changed his initial plan. We will know in the next weeks.
 
As people have been saying, he liberated the players a little bit, as evidenced by the possession stats, and we start to play a lot better.

But I wonder if he is actually happy coaching us in these circumstances. Is that tantamount to us winning in spite of him, rather than because of him? What happens when you have a "philosophy" - as opposed to being essentially pragmatic in your approach - and the only way you can win is to completely ignore it?

I know Van Gaal can be pragmatic about some things like formations and positions. But is 47% possession against Stoke actually compatible with his idea of how football should be played? People have made a few joking (I assume they were joking) remarks about him not liking the fact that we "lost the possession", but isnt there a serious point in that? That is contrary to everything I thought I understood about how he sets his teams up, what he actually wants them to do.

This is what worries me. Or maybe not worries me, but is on my mind. The worry is, will he be tempted to change things back once we gain a little momentum, feeling that once we have our confidence back we will be able to play with the ball AND make chances? (And maybe he is right, but what if he is wrong?) And if he doesnt do that, will he step aside at the end of the season to let someone else take over, if he is not actually coaching in a way he truly believes in? I suspect so to be honest.

I felt a while back that probably Woodward had asked him to see out the season, because we had someone in mind who wasnt available until the summer. He may feel he has basically failed at this job, failed to implement his philosophy on the club, failed to get us playing the way he wanted us to - I never believed he was satisfied with what we were doing, he was always looking for something that we were never quite able to execute on the pitch. So I reckon (hope) he will loosen the reigns a bit, stop trying to implement his philosophy, go through the motions and allow the players a greater say in how we play and leave at the end of the season whatever happens. And maybe, liberated, the players can put in a strong performance for the last few months and actually qualify for Europe.

Either that or all the above is complete bollocks and Van Gaal is actually happy with us conceding the ball to a mid table club at home.
 
Last night was my favourite performance from us in a long while. What let's Van Gaal down is that the fans have been calling for these changes to be made for a long time. This is how we should be playing. How do we recognise this but he doesn't?

As others have mentioned, he seems to get lucky at just the right time to save his skin. He's one of the luckiest managers I've known in that sense. But, then again, I think most of our problems have been self inflicted by Van Gaal and could have been easily avoided.
 
Adebesi said:
As people have been saying, he liberated the players a little bit, as evidenced by the possession stats, and we start to play a lot better.

But I wonder if he is actually happy coaching us in these circumstances. Is that tantamount to us winning in spite of him, rather than because of him? What happens when you have a "philosophy" - as opposed to being essentially pragmatic in your approach - and the only way you can win is to completely ignore it?

I know Van Gaal can be pragmatic about some things like formations and positions. But is 47% possession against Stoke actually compatible with his idea of how football should be played? People have made a few joking (I assume they were joking) remarks about him not liking the fact that we "lost the possession", but isnt there a serious point in that? That is contrary to everything I thought I understood about how he sets his teams up, what he actually wants them to do.

This is what worries me. Or maybe not worries me, but is on my mind. The worry is, will he be tempted to change things back once we gain a little momentum, feeling that once we have our confidence back we will be able to play with the ball AND make chances? (And maybe he is right, but what if he is wrong?) And if he doesnt do that, will he step aside at the end of the season to let someone else take over, if he is not actually coaching in a way he truly believes in? I suspect so to be honest.

I felt a while back that probably Woodward had asked him to see out the season, because we had someone in mind who wasnt available until the summer. He may feel he has basically failed at this job, failed to implement his philosophy on the club, failed to get us playing the way he wanted us to - I never believed he was satisfied with what we were doing, he was always looking for something that we were never quite able to execute on the pitch. So I reckon (hope) he will loosen the reigns a bit, stop trying to implement his philosophy, go through the motions and allow the players a greater say in how we play and leave at the end of the season whatever happens. And maybe, liberated, the players can put in a strong performance for the last few months and actually qualify for Europe.

Either that or all the above is complete bollocks and Van Gaal is actually happy with us conceding the ball to a mid table club at home.
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I think there's an element of truth in that. Last night isn't the first time he's given us freedom and he usually does this when he comes under scrutiny, as if he knows we will perform better with the freedom. It's just that the one good performance (Everton,Chelsea etc) get followed up by more games of his philosophy. It's like one big cycle.

His ego has held him back from day 1, in my opinion. He is only interested in reinventing the wheel and seems to have no wish to be successful using somebody else's blueprint. This can be seen by the radical change in our tactics and the bewildering way he has played players out of position.
 
midnightmare said:
Agree that it's nowhere close to being a turning point. As someone else mentioned, it's a "winning streak of one game". Better than losing / drawing, but beating Stoke at home should really be routine and it speaks volumes for how far we've fallen that we're seeing this as a great result. Not sure about the buying of time though. It's clear that the Board wants him to go till the summer at least or we'd have brought in the new man (Mourinho?) early in January on the back of a horrendous run with the new-manager bump being allied to the opportunity of buying some players too. Since we've not done that, I don't think the result matters one bit. We're going to have to hope for Top 4...and for the Board to bring in a new man (not Giggs please!) in the summer to avoid a rinse-repeat of what happened last season.


I don't think people mind praising him (I certainly don't) but more that people are quite rightly, questioning whether this is a style that he's adapting to or whether it's just a one-off game before we revert to type. Thus far, Louis has stayed stubbornly rigid in the way he says he wants to the team to play. In several games early in the season, we played s*ite possession football in the first half before playing with more freedom in the second leading to a win. Each time, LvG said he preferred the first half. Against Stoke, we basically played the whole game like we played the second halves of those early-season games. It's therefore logical to ask whether this is actually a shift in style or just a one-off given that the opposition were setup in a nice way for us to capitalize upon.
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As he said post match he'd spoke with Carrick - the plan was to come out of the blocks, score an early goal and that would make the game far easier for us which is exactly what had happened, it wasn't coincidental.
 
pocco said:
I think there's an element of truth in that. Last night isn't the first time he's given us freedom and he usually does this when he comes under scrutiny, as if he knows we will perform better with the freedom. It's just that the one good performance (Everton,Chelsea etc) get followed up by more games of his philosophy. It's like one big cycle.

His ego has held him back from day 1, in my opinion. He is only interested in reinventing the wheel and seems to have no wish to be successful using somebody else's blueprint. This can be seen by the radical change in our tactics and the bewildering way he has played players out of position.
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If he thought that we would play better with more freedom, he wouldn't force us to play according to the philosophy. The thing is that playing with more freedom almost automatically means more chances for the opposition. Stoke were very poor yesterday but created several half-chances and if they had someone better than Crouch up front, it could have been a bit different. Not many teams would give us so much space and be as impotent in attack as Stoke last night. If we play in the same manner against Chelsea and Arsenal, they will beat us, probably quite bad as well.
 
Out.

Doesn't matter what he does now, he's already messed up our chances of finishing top four. Going on a run after it's too late to count for anything is such a Liverpool thing.
 
We always have had performances like yesterday within us but the problem is we can't do it consistently. This team works very well when the opposition wants to come out and play like Stoke did but when we get the majority of teams who park the bus we are not dynamic enough to break them down. This does indicate it's a tactical problem which stems from the manager.
 
Treble said:
If he thought that we would play better with more freedom, he wouldn't force us to play according to the philosophy. The thing is that playing with more freedom almost automatically means more chances for the opposition. Stoke were very poor yesterday but created several half-chances and if they had someone better than Crouch up front, it could have been a bit different. Not many teams would give us so much space and be as impotent in attack as Stoke last night. If we play in the same manner against Chelsea and Arsenal, they will beat us, probably quite bad as well.
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Its still progress though, given these are exactly the types of teams we have struggled against all season. Well, we have struggled against all kinds of teams. But there are a lot of teams out there just as impotent as Stoke, so if we have found a way to beat such teams, and if Van Gaal is willing to use this plan consistently when we face them, then its happy days. And we can try and play with more control against teams that have better players who we really need to worry about.
 
A good performance here and there doesn't change the fact that we had a dreadful season.
 
This win changes nothing.

Thoughout his tenure, Van Gaal has displayed lack of planning, a lack of knowledge of the United way and absolutely appalling football. The fact that Nick Powell was sent on during a must-win Champions League game and now he's on loan at Hull fecking City shows that there really is no plan behind Van Gaal's squad selection.

He's gutted our squad of so many players who could have been useful. Welbeck was sold because he was told he might not have enough game time, but the 2/3 of the strikers he was competing with were unceremoniously shown the door later. Nani was sold because Van Gaal decided on a 3-5-2, but that was abandoned in two months and we were left without quality wingers. He complains about lack of pace on the wings when both Welbeck and Nani are lightning fast players that provide exactly that.

This from Football 365 summed up United at the moment:
Furthermore, there was not even any great demand for signings from supporters. Having grown hoarse through their demands for entertaining football and/or Van Gaal to be removed from his position, fans could not stomach any more disapproval regarding new signings. It is as if an entire support has been deadened by their club, dejected into silence.
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Adebesi said:
Its still progress though, given these are exactly the types of teams we have struggled against all season. Well, we have struggled against all kinds of teams. But there are a lot of teams out there just as impotent as Stoke, so if we have found a way to beat such teams, and if Van Gaal is willing to use this plan consistently when we face them, then its happy days. And we can try and play with more control against teams that have better players who we really need to worry about.
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We struggled against such teams because they did not give us much space, unlike Stoke (who were missing their best defender too). I'm sure that we are going to struggle again against teams that do not pretend to be Barca 2 or something. I hope I'm wrong but most people do not take into account that it wasn't so much about the plan last night but mostly about how crap Stoke were both in defence and attack. We struggled against Shef. U because they were happy to sit back and defend deeply and this will probably happen again this season. Maybe I'm wrong though and LVG has stumbled over something genuinely working against weaker teams.
 
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Treble said:
We struggled against such teams because they did not give us much space, unlike Stoke. I'm sure that we are going to struggle again against teams that do not pretend to be Barca 2 or something. I hope I'm wrong but most people do not take into account that it wasn't so much about the plan last night but mostly about how crap Stoke were both in defence and attack. We struggled against Shef. U because they were happy to sit back and defend deeply and this will probably happen again this season. Maybe I'm wrong though and LVG has stumbled over something genuinely working against weaker teams.
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I suspect you arent to be honest.

But I am allowing myself to hope we have stumbled across something, or, as I said before, more specifically, that the thing we have stumbled across is that Van Gaal has given up trying to get us to do something he has accepted we cannot or will not do. And that the result of that will be an improvement, and then his replacement.

Up until a few weeks ago I was hoping for something different, I was hoping that Van Gaal would actually get through to the players, the penny would drop and we would start playing really well, his way. But sometimes you hope for something and it seems so unrealistic that the hope feels hollow, like the hope I might feel if I buy a lottery ticket, and I hope I win but I know I wont and I dont get excited about it. And then you need to find something else to hope, something you can actually trick yourself into believing. So now I have changed what I am hoping for, and so far its working out for me.
 
SirAF said:
Pretty much this. Credit where credit due of course, but I just don't see last night as a turning point. Alas, it will have bought him even more time now.
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I agree, was there a turning point? like we see under Ferguson in the second half of the 2005/06 season, because the run we went on and the football we played from january 2006 to May 2006 I felt was a turning point, I don't see it here because VG enjoys pulling the trigger and blowing his own foot to pieces
 
Results, performances and everything else is irrelevant now. We simply have to make the change in the summer to counter act Pep and City, something I don't see LVG is able to do.
 
its one good result (im not counting Derby because they're naff)

admittedly it was a very good performance but its still one match, its only 1 PL match after getting beaten at home by Southampton

time will tell whether we're on the start of finally turning this big tanker around or whether its going to take a new skipper to stop it running aground

what interesting to me is that the players were remarking after the Derby win that the manager allowed them to play with more freedom, now we've seen the same against Stoke with only 46% possession. Has the penny finally dropped for LVG?
 
We need a very strong finish and I still doubt it we will start winning games one after the other. I guess our season will continue to be up and down and the club should start preparing for next season. That means get a new manager on board and start looking at new players with him
 
It's sad to think this thread will blow up again if Chelsea beat us

Sadder to think they will then likely only be 6 points behind with 13 games to go.
 
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