LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

Do you want LVG sacked?

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Triple.Threat said:
Their fans forums are seriously talking about resting their back four for our game. Thats how toothless Van Gaal's United are. They were actually very pleased to get Man United.
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When fans of a championship club are saying that, VG is possibly the worst manager in the clubs history in decades
 
Oneunited26 said:
When fans of a championship club are saying that, VG is possibly the worst manager in the clubs history in decades
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Come on, Moyes was worse.

Scorpy said:
“I’m very disappointed I cannot reach the expectations of the fans. They have, or they had, great expectations of me, and I cannot fulfil them, so I am very frustrated.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jan/24/louis-van-gaal-manchester-united-fans-hopes
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I feel sorry for him in a way. It's his last job and it's disappointing for all involved for it to end badly but it's pretty obvious this is ony going one way.
 
Papers saying he's about to walk. Problem is Giggs doesn't want to do interim.
 
edcunited1878 said:
LVG can leave, however the structure of it all is dumb.

When Fergie was first appointed, he was able to create his vision of a club. At that time, it wasn't a commercial entity, so footballing side was able to set a proper foundation. Academy, scouting system, nutrition, club culture, ethos, etc. Class of 92 and then all the pieces/players came into play.

Then all the money and commercialization came second, however it complimented the footballing side like no other and the dominance of Fergie was for all to see. But he remained the constant. Meanwhile, David Gill and the board thought everything was in place. Insert here (manager, executive chief) and press play. Oops.

In American sports, which is long typical of some of the Director of Football or Bayern/Barca footballing setups, there's the commercial and sporting sides. United will always have the commercial side (in general - not including current play). However, the structure of the football/sporting operations are completely stupid and frankly ass backwards.

The type of football to be played and success achieved (i.e. the standards and how those standards are to be attained) are not the issue/question/problem.

It's the vision or philosophy of it all. Woodward doesn't have this. Fergie had it since Scotland and made it come true at United, so there was no need to have the structure because he was the structure. He knew how it should be run, who makes decisions, why. Complete autonomy. But it's different days and it was even in the later years of Fergie. Fergie had a great backroom staff and coaches, he simplified it. Fergie knew the team would pick itself like it does for the most part now, but there will be a few players that had to be rotated in/out. Get the team mentally ready, keep morale up and oversee the mental side. Coach 1 runs training session, Coach 2 runs conditioning, Coach 3 runs gym time, Coach 4,5,6 runs specific training for specific positions.

The Club failed in realizing this. The insert here and press play attempt with Moyes was naive and wrong. LVG was the right choice at the time, however Woodward himself probably doesn't know what is needed in terms of actual talent or changing. For example, if United needs a right winger type player, does Woodward know how to spot a talent or does he rely everything on LVG and the scouts? If you're in charge of the footballing matters, one must be able on their own, know if the player is quality or can grow. Have a constructive process with scouts, manager and coaches on whether or not the player is good enough. I question if Woodward is this adept.

Why there isn't a Board of Football and a hierarchy is stupid.
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LvG was brought here to instil the philosophy/vision you mention. The whole idea of a vision/philosophy is that it is a constant in the club. It is easy to follow it in good times, but the whole idea of a philopsophy is that even when the grapes turn sour you still stick to your idea of how the club should be run. In that regard, I understand the decision of the board to stick with LvG. It is obvious that he is also responsible for the position we are now in, and he has definitely made his mistakes. Maybe everyone can try to answer the following multiple choice answer. (underlined is standard redcafe answer, bold is the one that logically makes sense).

Current form aside, considering there are three teams with better players overall (City, Chelsea, Arsenal), our logical league position should be:
a) 1st
b) 2nd
c) 3rd
d) 4rd

Considering the fact that all top teams are struggling, we can conclude that:
a) All top team managers are shit!
b) The league has gotten stronger in general through investing all the tv money

Considering the current performances of Liverpool and Chelsea under new managers, changing our manager will:
a) Solve all our problems!
b) Will probably not change all that much

Given the track record of LvG over the past years (Winning the league with AZ in Holland, equivalent to winning the league with Spurs here. Becoming 3rd in the WC with a very mediocre Dutch team. Winning the league and getting into the CL finals with a Bayern Munich who's striker is Ivica Olic, and has Van Buyten and De Michelis as central defenders, alongside Butt in the goal. On some key positions, that team had really mediocre players in comparison with what they had the years after), we can say that LVG generally is:
a) a bad manager, definitely lost it!
b) a good manager.

And yes, sometimes our football hurts my eyes too. The difference is however that I believe that the manager is adds or subtracts maybe 5% to the team's performance in comparison to the total summed quality of the players.
 
Acquire Me said:
He will probably not resign, so thats it then? I refuse to believe our club want to neglect its fans like this.
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He would eventually be sacked if we failed to make the top 4, which we won't with him in charge. The board are blind though. We are basically pissing away another season.

I know we have issues but we really could save this season if we sack him. We could win 2 cups and finish 3rd or something. Why not make the change now? If we made it after Wolfsburg we may have had a pop at the title!
 
itso 7 said:
If the players are letting him down, not taking responsibility as it were, then he has the power to act on it by dropping them en masse and going into matches with the few that are playing for him plus the youths. You could see Mourinho trying it at Chelsea but the fact that LvG hasn't come down hard on the worst of the lot: Mata, Fellaini and Rooney spring to mind - it means that he is satisfied with the players' execution of his game plan!
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I would argue that he did drop Mata, McNair, Young, Herrera and Depay when they did not do what he wanted or perform as he wanted. Maybe even Schniederlin. There is also an argument to say that he did it with ADM. He chose the players, so there is no defense for that, and he will be accountable for that.

Maybe I am just a different breed from some of you, and we have probably all played the game, but I doubt very much whether any of our abilities dropped just because the coach said I want you to man mark him, or stay out wide, hold your position. We have probably all had games where we just didn't feel right physically or mentally and it affected our game. That is not the fault of the coaches or managers. If he doesn't do something about it during the game, if he has the luxury, then sure he should get what he deserves. But not all player performances are the managers fault. Also, when a player like Depay does the header at Stoke, Adnan in the Southampton match, why turn on the manager. The players fecked up.
 
Tyrion said:
Come on, Moyes was worse.



I feel sorry for him in a way. It's his last job and it's disappointing for all involved for it to end badly but it's pretty obvious this is ony going one way.
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Is it? At this rate we will end up finishing 7th no champions league football. Let's not forget the top 4 during Moyes era was stronger than the top 4 currently, not factoring in that we have tallied the least amount of points in the PL era. VG had a full range of summer activity, ripped apart half the squad without replacing the numbers. He's done just has bad has Moyes
 
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Offside said:
He would eventually be sacked if we failed to make the top 4, which we won't with him in charge. The board are blind though. We are basically pissing away another season.

I know we have issues but we really could save this season if we sack him. We could win 2 cups and finish 3rd or something. Why not make the change now? If we made it after Wolfsburg we may have had a pop at the title!
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You are right in everything. Why cant our board see this. Amazing it is.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I hate this silly little straw man that gets brought up every week by LVG apologists, without fail. "You can't blame LVG for [individual event that counted against us]". As if everything else that's been happening this season is all nice and perfect.
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No one is saying that, but it is just as pointless saying we have done feck all in his time and he is the cause of all our problems. You don't like him or his style of football great. Have your view, but don't expect everyone else to agree with you. I do not accept he is the main cause of our problems, so I won't shout for his dismissal. You can go shout for his dismissal at OT, wave your imaginary wanker signs, boo, write abusive messages on social media or do what ever you like to show your frustration. That's not me, so I wont be joining your party.
 
Just pay his contract up and move on. I don't think any single fan would be bothered if we send him into retirement with a £8m payoff.
 
SalfordRed1960 said:
Your entitled to your view, but I am happy with mine. If you really believe the players have no responsibility then I would suggest your dislike for everything LVG is clouding your judgement.
It has been stated in many threads LVG will get the boot if he doesn't meet his targets. That is no different to anyone else. That doesn't defend players being held accountable for their performances.
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It's one thing not meeting end of season targets, it's something different when you play like relegation candidates, are equal with Sunderland for the least amount of goals scored, I could go on. How is that acceptable to any United fan never mind the club itself?
 
.Rossi said:
:rolleyes:



Apologies. Didn't know.


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Why the rolled eyes, I actually remember why, look at the description of his twitter profile. The idiot used transfermakt to find the name of an agent company and used the "family member" company.
 
SalfordRed1960 said:
I find your argument just as silly.

Many of you have this belief that because the players are not performing that means they are not playing for LVG. This also gets countered by the 'they are ignoring him' if they do anything good. That is just plain and simple LVG bashing for the sake of it. Just as we are lucky if we win with one shot, but if the opponents do it, then they are not lucky.

LVG brought Adnan on yesterday to provide an attacking threat as he wanted to win the game where we had largely been second best. How can he be held accountable for the stupid mistake which led to the goal. Seriously, their player is on the corner flag with another United player marking him, so why the feck would you go and foul him. Why is that LVGs fault.

You can all blame LVG for many things, but just because you have a view does not mean that it is reality. There are many possible reasons. You may be right, I just do not agree with you all and I watch the same dross as you each week.
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Sorry can I just stop you there. He brought him on at left back, a decision which not only nullified his threat but also led directly to the Southampton goal
 
VG out, but Giggs can't be the replacement.

Wiki states: After his final match in charge, a 1–1 draw with Southampton, Giggs admitted to breaking down in tears, in part due to the pressure of managing United, and also said he had struggled to sleep during the period.[127][128]

It cannot be Giggs. I can't believe he is ready especially given he's spent so much time with Lucky and Moyes.
 
Why not just give giggs the rest of the season to see what he can do? If he fails replace him in the summer.

He cant do any worse than LVG and he would at least bring something new to our game than the dross LVG offers.
 
clarkydaz said:
seems like his only concern is the fans booing, like everything else is ok
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Yesterday he was asking us what he can do differently, like he'd manage based on fan votes for players or tactics:nervous:

He's already gone in his head IMO, just a matter of time before we put him out of his misery, the unfortunate reality is that not many people walk into retirement the way they want to.
 
Orange said:
LvG was brought here to instil the philosophy/vision you mention. The whole idea of a vision/philosophy is that it is a constant in the club. It is easy to follow it in good times, but the whole idea of a philopsophy is that even when the grapes turn sour you still stick to your idea of how the club should be run. In that regard, I understand the decision of the board to stick with LvG. It is obvious that he is also responsible for the position we are now in, and he has definitely made his mistakes. Maybe everyone can try to answer the following multiple choice answer. (underlined is standard redcafe answer, bold is the one that logically makes sense).

Current form aside, considering there are three teams with better players overall (City, Chelsea, Arsenal), our logical league position should be:
a) 1st
b) 2nd
c) 3rd
d) 4rd

Considering the fact that all top teams are struggling, we can conclude that:
a) All top team managers are shit!
b) The league has gotten stronger in general through investing all the tv money

Considering the current performances of Liverpool and Chelsea under new managers, changing our manager will:
a) Solve all our problems!
b) Will probably not change all that much

Given the track record of LvG over the past years (Winning the league with AZ in Holland, equivalent to winning the league with Spurs here. Becoming 3rd in the WC with a very mediocre Dutch team. Winning the league and getting into the CL finals with a Bayern Munich who's striker is Ivica Olic, and has Van Buyten and De Michelis as central defenders, alongside Butt in the goal. On some key positions, that team had really mediocre players in comparison with what they had the years after), we can say that LVG generally is:
a) a bad manager, definitely lost it!
b) a good manager.

And yes, sometimes our football hurts my eyes too. The difference is however that I believe that the manager is adds or subtracts maybe 5% to the team's performance in comparison to the total summed quality of the players.
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Very well reasoned post and I agree with your logic construct.

I read an article a few days ago about a statistical analysis by a PhD mathematics geek at Cambridge university about the true impact of a football manager at a club; other factors including quality of players, salaries and bonuses, size and passion of fan base.

This chap was quite certain that the impact was about 13-15% and at most a manager like SAF was at 19%. So I think you are very close to the truth.

Also I like your point about Liverpool and Chelsea not enjoying a dramatic change in fortune via a mid season sacking ... And that there are no longer any easy games for a new manager to come into so he can hit the ground running with some early wins.

I still don't know what is the right answer in our current situation. Despite all the clamour for LVGs resignation and the really dull football, I'm still of the opinion that his vast experience counts and if anyone knows how to solve this mess it should be him.

Right now I'm only just in favour of fully supporting him til end of the season and fingers crossed something changes. But if the board make that decision, they have to back him this week in transfers and bring in at least 2 new quality players, if only just to inject some less cynical players into the mix.

I'd literally bust the bank for Stones and Lukaku. Pay Everton £100m for both of them (we have the cash and I'd rather it's invested in the first team than in dividends right now!). Evertons season is going nowhere so if the offer is crazy enough they might go for it.

Bringing in Giggs or Mourinho right now offers no certainty whatsoever of a top 4 finish. However we do know it can't get any worse than it is right now and surely the form has to change for LVG.

There is no perfect answer right now, which is why the board are finding it so hard to make a decision.
 
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Zexstream said:
Why not just give giggs the rest of the season to see what he can do? If he fails replace him in the summer.

He cant do any worse than LVG and he would at least bring something new to our game than the dross LVG offers.
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That's my ideal scenario right now

Would love to see what he can do
 
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