Funny but actually true.LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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Funny but actually true.I have no doubt they are considering their options.
I think if we lose badly to the scousers then he should go
It's not funny we have less ambition than Juventus just after their relegation.
That terrible run we were on is just way too much for us to recover, and that run will ultimately cost us the top 4, which could sum up VG and Moyes has the 2 worst managers we have had in decades. Its gutting that worst case scanrio after fergie left, we would end up with the 2 worst managers in the clubs history in decades
Well, let's hope that those running the club have already laid the groundwork for "going forward" - i.e. got someone in mind, already talked to them etc... Then it's just a case of sack him sooner or later. And Giggsy can have his few months in the driving seat.
It must be obvious to the board that even a few more draws & we'll be losing sight of a European place. The decision then is merely "is LvG a bigger liability in charge or sacked?".
It must be obvious to the board that even a few more draws & we'll be losing sight of a European place. The decision then is merely "is LvG a bigger liability in charge or sacked?".
You would really hope so.
http://strettynews.com/depressing-d...ed-are-marching-towards-death-in-mediocrity/?
Depressing, dreary and damning: United are marching towards death in mediocrity.
Depressing, dreary and damning: United are marching towards death in mediocrity.
Don't worry, lads. We're just behind Leicester, West Ham, and Spurs in the league table in January.
What this all has really exposed is that we are run by the worst board of any top tier team. Some of the decisions made by them have been just horrendously shocking.
SAF's excellence really covered up a lot of horse shit and incompetence by our upper management.
Ill go further than that - its the worst run top tier team in any sport globally.
Who knows what they are thinking at this stage?
The best case scenario is that we are waiting for Pep at the end of the season but my gut tells me he is off to City...so who does that leave us with? I wouldn't mind Jose, but why wait till we cannot mathematically qualify for the Champions league without doing so?
What, because we havent fired our manager quickly enough? Or because of the quality of the signings?
That seems ridiculously OTT to me.
Such extremes. A couple of exciting signings 5 months ago and you have threads like Woody The Transfer Don. OK I know that was a bit tongue in cheek but still, people were kissing his balls for doing what is in fact simply his job, signing people. Fast forward to now and we are the worst run club anywhere in the world, because our manager goes on an awful run and we dont get rid of him fast enough.
That seems ridiculously OTT to me.
Such extremes. A couple of exciting signings 5 months ago and you have threads like Woody The Transfer Don. OK I know that was a bit tongue in cheek but still, people were kissing his balls for doing what is in fact simply his job, signing people. Fast forward to now and we are the worst run club anywhere in the world, because our manager goes on an awful run and we dont get rid of him fast enough.
How many of his signings would count as shrewd? The only one that would fall into that category for me would be Blind and even then he shouldn't be an automatic starter for us.
We are fast heading down the road of being just a money making machine. The Glazers will not be here for long. But by the time they sell the club to some Sheik, we will have lost our soul.
The club needs to be stabilised immediately and long term plans put in place. Hire the best manager and staff and players. Once that is in place we can talk about all the traditions like the Youth set up.
The club needs to be stabilised immediately and long term plans put in place. Hire the best manager and staff and players. Once that is in place we can talk about all the traditions like the Youth set up.
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To be fair to Woody nobody could expect that somehow players lose their quality once coached by Van Genius.
Schneiderline has been a shadow of his former self.
It is really getting on my wick how last night seems to have given Louis yet more time, and some positive headlines.
If he can get the team playing this attractive football why the hell hadn't he done it on a consistent basis before? The only reason he let them off their leash is because of all the criticism he has been getting after the FA cup game, there is no way he wanted to play like that last night.
How can in anyway can that be deemed a positive? We play crap football we don't win (or rarely), we play attractive football we don't win, it's a nonsense and if we play like we did last night against anyone remotely decent then we'll get torn apart, so don't expect to see it again any time soon.
And anyone questioning the players just look at the vast difference in Saturdays game against last night, and tell me they are not deeply under lvG's power.
If he can get the team playing this attractive football why the hell hadn't he done it on a consistent basis before? The only reason he let them off their leash is because of all the criticism he has been getting after the FA cup game, there is no way he wanted to play like that last night.
How can in anyway can that be deemed a positive? We play crap football we don't win (or rarely), we play attractive football we don't win, it's a nonsense and if we play like we did last night against anyone remotely decent then we'll get torn apart, so don't expect to see it again any time soon.
And anyone questioning the players just look at the vast difference in Saturdays game against last night, and tell me they are not deeply under lvG's power.
Do you have any idea the state our youth set up is in? Its in complete disarray and its been a year since we've had anyone head up our youth programme. We've lost every game to our biggest youth rivals (City and Liverpool) at every age group from U10 onwards this season and our U18 are currently on losing streak of 9 games. That is beyond negligent. Woodward's solution? Lets build a mini OT.
We continue to work towards a set up where the manager controls everything while ignoring everyone around us who have moved on from that. Ferguson is gone. We went for the legacy appointment with Moyes and it was never going to work. We continued it with LVG and we continue to operate in crisis. The footballing decisions are left to be made by a man who (and ill keep this civil despite my personal opinion) is an Investment Banker to trade. Tell me any other sporting institute in the world that lets someone with that experience make key sporting decisions? That's right. None. As a result of that lack of experience, there is no defined strategy to any of our recruitment, direction, or youth programme.
Not all fans consider the first team the be all and end all of Utd - I am certainly not one of them. In fact, it worries me that some do not understand just how far behind the club has fallen across the board. Not only did we let City catch up, we sat and watched them go right past us. Arrogance and negligence of the highest order are what have brought us to this point.
To my mind it is crazy to think the way we are playing is not the fault of the manager. My fear is, after last night, Louis' bum will be twitching and he won't want us attacking any more in case we throw away more leads.
He is like the anti-Fergie. In 2012/13 how many times did we eek out wins from disastrous positions, or throw away leads just to snatch wins at the death. Southampton (A) sticks out the most, cos of the Van Persie hat trick, but there were loads. Some of those games we might not have deserved to win but we got the three points because Sir Alex feared not winning more than losing, unlike Louis.
Does anyone think he sabotages games in which we play fluid attacking football by making insane substitutions, which ensures that we concede goals.. thus allowing him to push the narrative that this side is not to be trusted if allowed to be free flowing and attacking.
The decision to remove two of our best players in Lingard and Herrera just seemed downright bizarre - suicidal. I mean taking someone off for missing a chance is ridiculous, especially if the lad has scored already and not really had any other chances of note to even miss. I thought it was incredibly petulant to take him off. We needed Lingard for his ability to track back and for majority of the game we looked more likely to score than concede.
It is once he took legs off and put on the likes of Mata/Depay, that the balance completely went and suddenly we had a team which in theory was more attacking (Mata is more attacking than Herrera/Depay is more attacking than Lingard), but in reality led to us being less penetrative and more prone to failings in defence.
As alluded to above, his game management is simply awful. Right now, Van Gaal and Mata are two people I would love to see the back of from this club.. if I knew we could shot of them in return for Rooney playing well, starting every game and going in the summer I would take it. He may be a fat bastard but even in this current state he has been more productive than either of them in their respective roles.
The decision to remove two of our best players in Lingard and Herrera just seemed downright bizarre - suicidal. I mean taking someone off for missing a chance is ridiculous, especially if the lad has scored already and not really had any other chances of note to even miss. I thought it was incredibly petulant to take him off. We needed Lingard for his ability to track back and for majority of the game we looked more likely to score than concede.
It is once he took legs off and put on the likes of Mata/Depay, that the balance completely went and suddenly we had a team which in theory was more attacking (Mata is more attacking than Herrera/Depay is more attacking than Lingard), but in reality led to us being less penetrative and more prone to failings in defence.
As alluded to above, his game management is simply awful. Right now, Van Gaal and Mata are two people I would love to see the back of from this club.. if I knew we could shot of them in return for Rooney playing well, starting every game and going in the summer I would take it. He may be a fat bastard but even in this current state he has been more productive than either of them in their respective roles.
We keep this up and we won't be far behind the likes of Milan and Liverpool or even looking at the likes of Toronto Maple Leafs(richest, most popular NHL team, 47 years without a championship) and the Detroit Lions (LOL) in terms of pure ineptitude and totally botched succession 'plans'. For the investment the club has made the return is about as pathetic as it could be.
OK, I take all that on board. But worst management of any sports club, globally?
Maybe I am just being too literal minded, I am no stranger to a bit of hyperbole myself so I guess I should accept it in others.
Name one worse - that's the challenge. I honestly cannot think of one. Im talking about from a sporting perspective.
Yes he will be, but on all the evidence we have seen so far he just won't do it, we have 17 games left so 51 points to play for, and we are sat on 34 points after 21 games which averages about 1.6 points game, let's say we increase that somehow to 2 points per game from now on, we'll end on 68 points which is highly unlikely to be enough, and the chances of us averaging that are slim anyway when you consider we have played a lot of our 'easier' away games already, and our home form is hardly reliable.
Like I say maybe Ed is happy to follow LvG until the bitter end and face no CL again, but the facts are staring him in the face, why he's not doing something about it is the only question now.
Well, without thinking about it for more than 3 seconds, Newcastle fans would probably want to throw their name into the ring.
OK we signed some shit players. We are not unique in that regard.
Our youth setup is a shambles, as you said. But the youth setup of most clubs in this country is a shambles, as we discuss at length after every single international tournament. Clubs like Southampton are the exception, not the rule. Is ours any worse than ALL those other shit clubs in this regard?
Honestly, I cant name a club that is worse because I dont follow what other football clubs in England do, let alone in the rest of the world, let alone what American football teams are up to, or the Tanzanian U18 syncronised swimming team.
I just think, OK we are a shambles at the moment, and that is quite predictable after the loss of our autocratic manager who held everything together, very competently but somewhat single handedly for decades. Plus HIS boss, who supported him quite ably, at the same time. This has been discussed many times for years. So yes we are in disarray.
Shit, maybe you are right and we are, actually, the worst managed team in any sport, globally.
How do you know that Woodward is making all these sporting decisions? You have no idea whatsoever how the club is run behind the scenes
and in regards to the youth set up - results at those levels are pretty meaningless, it is all about player development and getting players ready for the first team and I would say that we have actually improved massively in that regard with several homegrown players making the step up recently and doing pretty well - the trust in youth is actually one of the biggest positives of the last couple of years.
The transfer business of the club has not been that bad at all either - the only mistake has been spending too much time trying to sign Galacticos and then missing out on other targets
Because whether we like it or not his job specification will outline performance targets rather than than unquantifiable entertainment targets.
There's been a few times in the last 18 months that pressure has built up from fans and the media to adopt a more attacking approach and each time he's tried it the team has let him down and hemmorhaged goals at the wrong end.
There's a clear issue with balance still. The fact is that we just don't have the quality up front to consistently punish opposition. The only reason teams constantly throw players forward against us in counter attacks is because they just don't have any fear in our attack if they lose the ball.
Martial aside, who isn't a top class attacker yet (potentially definitely but compare him to established top class players and he isn't that level) who do we have that strikes any sort of fear in the opponent? Rooney? Mata? Lingard? Memphis? Young?
I don't have any confidence in any of those players punishing the opposition and the opposition won't either.
So what does Van Gaal do? He sets us up the way he thinks this side will gain the most points. By limiting the opposition and hoping we take one of our few chances.
Guardiola lined up in Summer, unable to get a competent temporary manager - no sacking for LVG until the Summer?
Let's hold on to the optimism boys and girls.
Let's hold on to the optimism boys and girls.
It's a valid fear imo, Newcastle are not a good side yet they could have beaten us last night, yes we could have beaten them too, but for me it was two teams who's ability level wasn't too different, so how can we possibly go out and play like that against the better sides?
LvG knows this which is why he's protecting our defence with this possession based stuff, the flip side is that we can't attack when we play like this.
For me LvG is now in a corner, he gets criticised for play the boring high possession stuff that might win us more games than we lose, and the team aren't capable of winning enough games playing on the attack as last night.
Christ. I don't know where to start with this.
If its not Woodward, who is it? Its certainly not the Glazers. The point is there is nobody qualified in place that should be making those decisions.
Results are meaningless? That is just down right disrespectful to anyone working at that level. Tell that to anyone who was won the FA Youth Cup. Yes its about player development but its also about investing in our future. We are in a situation now where we are missing out on the best young talent simply because we are not offering as attractive a proposition that City can offer - and im not talking financially now. The problem is so rife that Utd have written to the FA asking for action because they believe there has been underhand tactics employed by City in the intake of local talent. This wouldn't be happening if Utd hadn't sat on their hands for so long, and secondly employed someone to pull together the youth programme. As I said, this job has remained unfilled for over 12 months.
With all due respect to Newcastle - they are not operating at the same standard of Manchester United. I mean top tier teams.
The youth set up of Chelsea, City, and Arsenal are light years in front of ours and my point is that never used to be the case. We have stood by and let it happen. Each of those clubs have a plan on recruitment at every level and an idea of how best to develop that talent.
OK I actually missed those quite crucial words in the original posts: "top tier team".
I still have my doubts, but as I said I dont know enough about other teams to comment really. Surely some of the big Italian clubs are a bit of a shambles. But yeah, I dont know so I cant really argue with you about it.
I agree he is clearly swayed at times by public opinion, he did the same thing against Chelsea and many were fooled into thinking it was the start of something, rather than it actually been mean to settle the fans down a bit, & tbf it worked a treat with most of them, it doesn't quite explain the approach against Sheffield utd but overall this is clearly the case.
It then raises the obvious question why he would be bullied into changing his approach if he knows the usual way is our best chance of winning, and why after 18 months a manager who has assembled a squad (at great expense) who's best bet is to defend and hope to nick a goal from a handful of chances per game is still here.
Like I say I just don't see anyway out for him now, he is stuck between a rock and a hard place, but as he's still owed £9 million on his contract then I don't really blame him for not walking away.
Your opinion that the youth system is falling apart because no one replaced Brian McClair is absolute bollocks - Warren Joyce has been reserve team manager since 2008, Paul McGuiness with the younger players has been there since 2005 so things are in good hands and nowadays there is even Nicky Butt plus several others involved at various levels. Clearly there is vast experience there already plus LvG has a strong history of working with young players so the idea that its all somehow the job of Ed Woodward to look after the youth system is laughable.
City have spent vast sums on their academy but this is mostly about FFP loopholes plus they needed to spend it as I cant even remember the last time they ever promoted a homegrown talent to the first team - meanwhile we have several homegrown players in and around the first team squad and most of them are doing well so I have no idea what you are even complaining about.
There are many reasons to criticise Van Gaal and the United board but really the youth set up is the least of our problems
If we were hosting them then I think the crowd reaction of a battering by the Scouse would be enough to force the board's hand. However, being away from home means there'll be a smaller contingent of United supporters voicing their discontent, which may quieten the vitriol to an extent.
We're lucky that Liverpool are seemingly scared of their own supporters at the moment... so maybe another 3-3 is on the cards.
@LonelyFire on the money
The away support are the most loyal, if they turn then he is in trouble.
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