LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

Do you want LVG sacked?

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Mitchell Nicholas said:
So am I. If they maintain the excellent progress made with him I'm charge, that might change. He's brought through young players, English players fwiw and got Spurs playing some good football.
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Issue is that it might not be as straight forward as Unted rocking up and saying we want you and it automatically happening, Spurs are building a new stadium and have lofty ambitions, for the man who has seen them progress and maybe get them into the CL places ( they'll never be a better opportunity than this season for them to do it) to then just walk away when United come knocking just might not happen, or interest him.

Anyway I'm firmly in the Carlo camp for our next manager, less risk and no strings attached.
 
Question234 said:
fire lvg and sign ancelotti mid season and during an injury crisis lol then want him fired for pep when he doesnt even make top 4.

Our fans.
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I doubt any fan wants that, although I know this is more a tongue in cheek reply.
We'd only go for Ancelloti if Pep tells us just like he did to SAF that he has promised another club or he'll stay at Bayern. Carlos is the next best option and is currently unemployed, I actually always thought Klopp may end here but that ship has sailed for now. As for Louis he needs to be gone at end of season, even if he fecked up on a ridiculous scale from now on and walked out or got sacked before the season ends we could just have Giggs to see us through. I think both Ancelloti and Pep would take this job even with no Europe on offer.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
This sort of argument doesn't really work. "Bad things have happened before" is not a valid excuse for bad things happening again. It's similar to the "we played crap football under Fergie too" argument. So what? Fergie was in charge for 27 years. You'll find examples of most things happening during his uncommonly long reign.
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It's not an argument that we should be satisfied or not disappointed with this result and that everything is all right. But it does show that United has been in decline for years and can't get past the group stage with some poor matches anymore.
 
So we all know that Fergie would most probably win the league had he been in charge today. But, we all know that the team he left was not a pretty sight. Gibson, Cleverley, Anderson, and many more that were supposed to be "United Quality" were far worse than any of the players we complain about today, such as Fellaini, Memphis, Lingard, and Rooney.

Although Van Gaal has made some accomplishments, he has so far largely been seen as a failure in the eyes of us fans. There are reasons for us to expect great things from the manager because, luckily, we are currently one of the largest market brands in the sport world, and will hopefully continue to be so in the foreseeable future.

However, we expect us to go far in a tournament that we won seven, 7(!), years ago? Of course we should always strife for improvement, and of course attacking football is a style of football we as fans appreciate, but to turn towards our players and staff simply because they do not "live up to our expectations" is seen as a reasonable reaction?

Most likely, and surely, we will transition from Van Gaal and our current style of football, but several teams show that this is never a given, and neither should devils around the world expect.
 
He'll be gone in the summer unless we win a trophy. We can't go into next season with a manager in the final year of his contract. Remember when SAF was due to retire?

His press conferences are now starting to annoy me, after the West Ham game when asked if he understood the fans frustrations he answered with a blunt 'no' and said 'you cannot demand goals'. Well .... We can actually because 1. We've paid to watch this shit and can demand what the fu.ck we want.

2. Entertaining football is what Manchester United have always been about (apart from the Dave Sexton era and now this Dutch clown with his philosophy).

He also now seems to be telling us that our expectations of Manchester United are the problem and that we should accept being mediocre.

Roll on the summer!
 
Right now LVG is harming the Man Utd brand, part of UTD's financial domination (a very large part) is due to global appeal, brought about by the excitement and glamour of the club and the premiership. These international fans are far less loyal than home based (not intended as a criticism).

Either play exciting football and maybe loose a few, or play boring football and win everything..... playing boring and not winning is turning everybody off!

The damage that this does to the brand, the value of the club, and it's position in global football could take more to recover than turning the team around could, it seems a shame given the length of time Utd have spent establishing the brand to do such damage.

For me the sooner the football improves the better, if that means LVG out so be it, both for my sanity as a supporter/spectator and for the good of the brand.
 
Zed 101 said:
Right now LVG is harming the Man Utd brand, part of UTD's financial domination (a very large part) is due to global appeal, brought about by the excitement and glamour of the club and the premiership. These international fans are far less loyal than home based (not intended as a criticism).

Either play exciting football and maybe loose a few, or play boring football and win everything..... playing boring and not winning is turning everybody off!

The damage that this does to the brand, the value of the club, and it's position in global football could take more to recover than turning the team around could, it seems a shame given the length of time Utd have spent establishing the brand to do such damage.

For me the sooner the football improves the better, if that means LVG out so be it, both for my sanity as a supporter/spectator and for the good of the brand.
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not a shred of evidence for this. No financial data or anything.

Just say it.
 
Crumpsall Red said:
He'll be gone in the summer unless we win a trophy. We can't go into next season with a manager in the final year of his contract. Remember when SAF was due to retire?

His press conferences are now starting to annoy me, after the West Ham game when asked if he understood the fans frustrations he answered with a blunt 'no' and said 'you cannot demand goals'. Well .... We can actually because 1. We've paid to watch this shit and can demand what the fu.ck we want.

2. Entertaining football is what Manchester United have always been about (apart from the Dave Sexton era and now this Dutch clown with his philosophy).

He also now seems to be telling us that our expectations of Manchester United are the problem and that we should accept being mediocre.

Roll on the summer!
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Yeah that's what grates, he's saying we've still got expectations of a decade back. Basically, be happy with what Louis has done. Perhaps we shouldn't expect more than a major CL failure every season. It's nothing new he's been moving the goalposts since he arrived. Crafty man.
 
He's going down the Moyes route isn't he?

If we don't try every possible way to get Pep in the board and Woodward should look at their own positions imo. Van Gaal is done for, it's only a matter of if he'll sit out the season.
 
Question234 said:
not a shred of evidence for this. No financial data or anything.

Just say it.
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It's so obvious you don't need to hire data analysts. I've even been seeing empty seats at the ground. An anomaly in previous seasons.
 
Sultan said:
It's so obvious you don't need to hire data analysts. I've even been seeing empty seats at the ground. An anomaly in previous seasons.
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Yeah and the majority of match going fans are starting to boo him. Seems hard to believe for some.
 
Sultan said:
It's so obvious you don't need to hire data analysts. I've even been seeing empty seats at the ground. An anomaly in previous seasons.
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funny, i went to the sunderland game and saw no empty seats so....That's why you need stats. Because your mind sometimes lies to you :drool:

I'm going to a game in jan so I'll be sure to check again.
 
Spoony said:
Yeah and the majority of match going fans are starting to boo him. Seems hard to believe for some.
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He seems to think fans singing "LvG's red army" is a tribute to his philosophy and process rather than in support of the team.

He's a fruitcake.
 
Question234 said:
funny, i went to the sunderland game and saw no empty seats so....That's why you need stats. Because your mind sometimes lies to you :drool:

I'm going to a game in jan so I'll be sure to check again.
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Make sure your mind doesn't lie.

The official stats will be around 75,000 attending the match. Again not correct.
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
It's not an argument that we should be satisfied or not disappointed with this result and that everything is all right. But it does show that United has been in decline for years and can't get past the group stage with some poor matches anymore.
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That's fair enough, and I agree that we have been in steady (if not all that dramatic until recently) decline for some years now. But "we" aren't now what "we" were back then. This is largely LVG's team. The question, then, becomes whether the decline (which started before his time) is an extenuating circumstance.

Is it? I don't think it is. At least not in the sense that crashing out of the CL in that fashion is a direct consequence of said decline and thus largely something LVG can't be held accountable for.

Also, it's been done to death but it bears repeating in this particular context: Moyes had a decent run in the CL. The decline arguably reached its nadir under him - but we still had a decent run in the CL. Could have been sheer coincidence, of course, but it nevertheless puts this season's failure to progress in perspective.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Not sure exactly waht you're getting at here, but I would imagine people want a better manager in, or a manger that at least tries to play the football United want to see, tbf it's not like there isn't an option out there.

Btw I didn't vote for him to be sacked.
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Ancelotti has said he's not joking any club mid season and pep isn't available until the summer at least. Sacking him now isn't a serious option.
 
Adisa said:
Ancelotti has said he's not joking any club mid season and pep isn't available until the summer at least. Sacking him now isn't a serious option.
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If he really wants United, and United were decisive enough in sacking LvG and making Carlo an offer he can't refuse, then I have no doubt he'd join us this season.

I am not saying I want that to happen just yet, but Carlo is unlikely to miss out on joining us just because we move for him mid season.
 
Womp said:
So basically:

1. We tried signing Neymar and Muller and failed, whilst just about knowing they would never join us.
2. We signed Di maria and he flopped, then sold him a season after and replaced him with potential in Depay, which hasn't worked out in our favour yet.
3. We let available and very good players move to other clubs, KDB etc, due to reason one.
4. We sold nearly half our squad and didn't buy any back-up and now are playing 18 year old reserves who haven't played first team football their whole life.

All this and LVG isn't the issue? The fact that we "tried" isn't a good enough excuse, I'm sure Bristol City would try and sign Neymar too, doesn't mean he's going to sign for them. The transfer market being "bloated" is also not an excuse considering all fecking summer all Woodward spoke about was how we have "unlimited funds" and would pay top money for top players, how did other clubs manage to strengthen?

Fact of the matter is LVG bought some good players in Darmian, BFS etc, but spending your whole summer trying for the world's best players when everyone knew it'd be almost impossible for them to join and not having any plan b's is LVG's fault. He signed Martial and was extremely surprised by how good he was, he himself said it. He didn't obtain the players, then he didn't implement a system to accommodate the players he did have, he's too stubborn with his philosophy.
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Right by your logic we should have kept the guys in our team who wouldn't play much, who didn't want to adapt and let that fester in the dressing room? That's asking for trouble. Sure you'd have bodies but you'd have lost the dressing room in no time.

He tried to sign and failed... who's fault is that? Blame the money men.

You said he should have signed players like KDB etc... I'm fascinated to know who these etc were. I am of the opinion that there aren't many available of that calibre out there, if not any. They're all contracted at big clubs. So what then? Just give up? You can't fault the man for ambition. He's not an idiot. These things don't go forward if the money men hadn't given an inclination that there was a possibility to sign these superstars.

The World's best players is exactly what we need. That X Factor. That game changer. On one hand you want them in the team and on the other you say it was stupid to go after them. Make you mind up.
 
Sultan said:
It's so obvious you don't need to hire data analysts. I've even been seeing empty seats at the ground. An anomaly in previous seasons.
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I work with fellow season ticket holders who sell their tickets for games more and more now.
 
bleedred said:
Are you telling us that we needed these marquee signings like Bale, Neymar,Muller for us to win against the likes of N'castle, PSV,CSKA, and West ham!!!

Trying?. We could try to sign in Messi in every transfer window and say well, we tried and couldnt get the marquee signing. What was the plan B or C, if we didnt get the targets?. Whose fault is that?
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We do beat the likes of Newcastle, West Ham et al. We are third in the league with the best defensive record. I think our league form is not bad at all. Against West Ham we had a plethora of chances but none of our players failed to convert. Is that the manager's fault as well? Far too easy to point the finger.

As for the Champions league campaign, the team messed up. That much is certain. Do people remember when we finished bottom of the group under Fergie? We had some fine players there but we didn't do well enough to beat 'the likes of CSKA and PSV'. This is football. You win some and you lose some. We lost at the worst possible time and with an injury list that has left us bare.

I'm personally happy he trimmed the squad because that means we let a lot of our youth through to the first team. We have unleashed Jesse Lingard, seen the potential of Borthwick-Jackson and Varela in the process. Growing pains. These kids now have invaluable experience that will help in their growth.

So why do we need marquee players? Because they make the entire team grow. When Ronaldo was firing on all cylinders for us, he dragged the rest of the team with him. Making everyone play better. How? Confidence. Belief. These are the things that come with having marquee players. They imbibe self-belief in the team. So even when a team has lost that player, the rest will still have that confidence to pull through.

And yes to beat the likes of CSKA, PSV and West Ham consistently you need marquee players. Take Messi and Neymar away from Barcelona they suddenly look far less threatening. When Messi was injured Barca took some time adjusting to life without him and they struggled. They looked half the side. They were lucky to have another two world beaters in their team to back it up.

Take Sanchez and Ozil out of Arsenal and do you think they'll consistently beat other teams? No they won't. Arsenal fans will tell you that themselves. Consistency requires greatness and we don't have that now.
 
The Red Thinker said:
Right by your logic we should have kept the guys in our team who wouldn't play much, who didn't want to adapt and let that fester in the dressing room? That's asking for trouble. Sure you'd have bodies but you'd have lost the dressing room in no time.

He tried to sign and failed... who's fault is that? Blame the money men.

You said he should have signed players like KDB etc... I'm fascinated to know who these etc were. I am of the opinion that there aren't many available of that calibre out there, if not any. They're all contracted at big clubs. So what then? Just give up? You can't fault the man for ambition. He's not an idiot. These things don't go forward if the money men hadn't given an inclination that there was a possibility to sign these superstars.

The World's best players is exactly what we need. That X Factor. That game changer. On one hand you want them in the team and on the other you say it was stupid to go after them. Make you mind up.
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You're clutching at straws. I didn't say it wasn't justified getting rid of those players, what wasn't justified was not replacing them and having a thin squad. It's not his fault he couldn't sign his targets, it was his fault that he didn't have any back-up targets that maybe were a little more realistic. Some players we could have signed who were available are, Costa, Dybala, KDB and I'm of the opinion that if we went in for Sterling he would have considered us, considering he's a United fan and all - just to name a few, not world class players yet by any means, but they are players with bags of potential who are already very good. '

These things don't go ahead unless the money men give him an inclination that it's possible due to our funds? We have enough funds to buy any player in the world, guess we should just try and sign Messi every window, what do you know, it was that easy all along.

The world's best players for the most part already play at the world's best teams, and if you take off your red tinted glasses, you'd see we're shite at the moment, why would they want to join us for a little more money unless they're mercenaries, something which hasn't worked out for us at all in the past.

Lastly, of course I want us to sign the world's best players, doesn't make it possible though.
 
Brocky said:
I don't often post, but here's what I think.

As long as we don't drop out of qualifying for the CL, he should be allowed to see out his contract....UNLESS, Guardiola is available at the end of the season. Why? Well...

1 - He was brought in to do a job. His brief from the board was to steady the ship, improve the team and win a title if possible. As has been said many times, that's something he's done before at big clubs. For me, he's doing that. He's playing youth. He's buying prospects. He's building from the back (as Fergie always did, if we were having bad times) and we're within touching distance of the title. He's doing what the board tasked him with, to be fair.

2 - Pep and Carlo aside, who do you get? I'd have maybe said Klopp, but that's about it. Giggs would be a ridiculous move, at this point in time, imho. So, unless we can get either of those two, it'd be a bad move, looking at the big picture of things, to get rid of LVG. At the end of next season, when he does leave, whoever takes over at that point will have a solid foundation to work with. Thats what he means by "process", I believe. He's rebuilding the club that was left in a mess by lack of investment in the last two seasons under Fergie and the Moyes debacle. The result was that the whole squad pretty much went to shit. LVG is sorting that out.

Injuries permitting, we're a left-back, a top striker and a forward-thinking midfielder away from a CL contender squad, imo. If we can get Rooney out of the door and get Woody to snap up a mobile, clinical #9 and Bale or a forward of similar ilk, from a squad point of view, we're well on our way. There are more factors, other than just personel, of course....which brings me to...

Style. Sure, the style of football is boring. Really....fecking....boring. But I honestly think that between that and the fans' inevitable, massive, expectation for results that comes with being a United manager, some people are just not seeing the bigger picture of what he was brought in to do by the board.

On the subject of expectations; When he was brought in I'm quite sure that most fans' expectations were pretty much the same as mine. First season - back in CL. Second season - challenging for the league and CL group qualification. Third season - We should be winning the league or CL. Anything more is a bonus. So, aside from the obvious, he's on track. He's rebuilding the squad and playing youth. He's going to leave the club in a solid position. I think we as fans need to look at the big picture, ride out the shit football, get behind him and we will be better off for it in the long run.

Unless we can get Pep.

Regarding the money he's had available. Yeah, he's spent a lot but let's be fair, Di Maria - 60m - accounts for a quarter of that money. Who the feck expected that to turn out the way it did? So we've got...

Herrera, Shaw, Blind - all very good players with plenty of years left.
Memphis, Martial - young, potentially top talent, not quite there.
Schweinsteiger - brought in for his experience and leadership (which we sorely lacked and was what we were all crying out for 18 months ago) hasn't done it, but early days.
Schneiderlin, Rojo, Darmian - not amazing buys but good and should become good first teamers or at least fringe players.

So, has he really bought bad? Honestly?

To put it into a bit of perspective, that's nine players - ten, if we count Di Maria - City's front five cost £200m.

Also, for those that have only known good times with attacking, entertaining football and don't already know; ask the older fans about the Sexton & Atkinson era. They'll tell you about how, after the steaming pile of shit we were turning out under Sexton, Atkinson was brought in to play attacking, entertaining football, like we had previously under Busby. It was good and pleased the fans for a while and then results went to shit and that became the issue. So we brought in a hard-headed manager to sort things out from the ground up. His first few years were poor, we were playing comparatively defensive and boring football, not getting great results and people wanted him sacked, but he was clearing out dead wood, playing youth, building a foundation. He only ended up being at the helm through the club's most stable and most dominant era, dontchya know!.

Now, of course I'm not suggesting that LVG will do that. I believe that there will never be anyone to emulate Fergie in my lifetime, in fact. My point is, I believe that we need that kind of manager at this point in time and that people need to get over the modern day, media-fueled need for instant gratification, look past the relatively boring football we're currently playing at this moment in time - something that we've not been used to for an unprecedented number of years and, in fact, many NEVER have experienced - and then consider the bigger picture.

LVG will pass the club onto the next guy in a miles better state than he found it. Tactics, formations, training methods and, yes, even philosophies can all be re-evaluated and changed within a couple of months by a new manager. It's not like we'll never be able to play entertaining ever again!

Right now, though, I think we need LVG and getting rid would be the worst thing we could do.

Unless we can get Pep.

Always get Pep.

Pep.
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Take a bow, my friend. Couldn't have said it better myself. Brilliant post.
 
The Red Thinker said:
We do beat the likes of Newcastle, West Ham et al. We are third in the league with the best defensive record. I think our league form is not bad at all. Against West Ham we had a plethora of chances but none of our players failed to convert. Is that the manager's fault as well? Far too easy to point the finger.
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I think I watched a different game to you this season. You could say,it was an off-day, but we are having too many off days. Also, strikers missing chances is not new for any club. If you create more the chances are you will score more. As for the West ham game, many in here would agree that they ad better chances than us. So it is the managers fault. If a team is lacking goals, its bereft of confidence and what has the manager done to overcome this after all the games in which we have failed to score and even create chances in some.

As for the Champions league campaign, the team messed up. That much is certain. Do people remember when we finished bottom of the group under Fergie? We had some fine players there but we didn't do well enough to beat 'the likes of CSKA and PSV'. This is football. You win some and you lose some. We lost at the worst possible time and with an injury list that has left us bare.
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Fergie rightly got the stick in here and from fans elsewhere for that. and so should LVG.

I'm personally happy he trimmed the squad because that means we let a lot of our youth through to the first team. We have unleashed Jesse Lingard, seen the potential of Borthwick-Jackson and Varela in the process. Growing pains. These kids now have invaluable experience that will help in their growth.
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Not to sound too condescending, I am not sure how you can see the potenial after 1 game!!!

So why do we need marquee players? Because they make the entire team grow. When Ronaldo was firing on all cylinders for us, he dragged the rest of the team with him. Making everyone play better. How? Confidence. Belief. These are the things that come with having marquee players. They imbibe self-belief in the team. So even when a team has lost that player, the rest will still have that confidence to pull through.

And yes to beat the likes of CSKA, PSV and West Ham consistently you need marquee players. Take Messi and Neymar away from Barcelona they suddenly look far less threatening. When Messi was injured Barca took some time adjusting to life without him and they struggled. They looked half the side. They were lucky to have another two world beaters in their team to back it up.

Take Sanchez and Ozil out of Arsenal and do you think they'll consistently beat other teams? No they won't. Arsenal fans will tell you that themselves. Consistency requires greatness and we don't have that now.
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You have two main arguments. 1) In football, we win some games, we lose some. To win consistently, we need marquee players which we dont have now.

Can this argument not have been applicable to Moyes as well. We didnt have Marquee players back them and we were winning some games, some more comfortably than now. May be if we had given some marquee signings, We could have challenged the league. Dont you think so? . So were we wrong in sacking him.

Winning consistenly may require marquee players. But we have won 4 in our last 13. That is not a form which can be defended saying its because we lack marquee players. Other teams around us like have better form even without the marquee players. City have silva and aguero out, yet how come they are winning?.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
That's fair enough, and I agree that we have been in steady (if not all that dramatic until recently) decline for some years now. But "we" aren't now what "we" were back then. This is largely LVG's team. The question, then, becomes whether the decline (which started before his time) is an extenuating circumstance.

Is it? I don't think it is. At least not in the sense that crashing out of the CL in that fashion is a direct consequence of said decline and thus largely something LVG can't be held accountable for.

Also, it's been done to death but it bears repeating in this particular context: Moyes had a decent run in the CL. The decline arguably reached its nadir under him - but we still had a decent run in the CL. Could have been sheer coincidence, of course, but it nevertheless puts this season's failure to progress in perspective.
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Of course LvG is accountable, but we have to take in account where United as a club stands in the bigger European picture. Moyes also had a relatively easy group, got through well but if it wasn't for Van Persie, he would have failed against Olympiacos, which I think certainly isn't better than Wolfsburg or PSV. I don't think United was at a higher level back then. I think it's been at a level for years now where the group stage is tricky, and an off day and bad luck can be fatal. There's not much margin for errors anymore, as both LvG and SAF have experienced.

United hasn't progressed to a level that getting through the group stage is a certainty yet. But that doesn't mean no progress is made, it's just slower than hoped. It's slower than I expected to, but my expectations about the speed of progress were quite high and I think I understand why it's slower and why it's still at a reasonable pace.
 
Not been on for a week or so after the shite that has been churned out, I couldn't handle the potential meltdowns including having one of my own!

We cannot get rid of him now, pretty much what @Brocky in a superb post earlier. To add my spin to it I personally have previously backed the style of play as he has made us hard to beat despite it being dire on the eye. The criticism i have on this though is that he seems to set us up with the focus on not losing as the priority rather than setting us up to win the game which for me is totally something different in the years i have watched United - but somehow we are in touching distance of challenging for the title so it is somehow working...

He has had the balls to give young players an opportunity which has been a breath of fresh air. These lads are getting valuable experience which will set them and the team up so well for the future. I just hope that one of them really nails down a place in the team and kicks on otherwise it won't necessarily have been a success.

The negatives though and they really piss me off but I suppose they aren't justification for sacking him -

I find his press conferences and open criticism of players a little too much. I mean FFS coming out and saying we can't win the Champs League the day before the Wolfsburg game was poor for me. As a player you don't want to read about your manager saying you are not capable of winning the competition you are in regardless of whether he thinks it.

His open criticism of players after games is terrible, we have become used to managers in this country of protecting players regardless but he just tears into them openly in the open and the majority of the time he is miles off. How Rooney has escaped his open critiques is beyond me?

Finally the fact that he never gets off his seat and changes things during games. He is supposed to be very strong tactically but all I have seen are changes made by very poor substitutions. Players can be coasting through a game, get a tough line bollocking and they soon change!

He certainly hasn't and isn't endearing himself to the fans which I think we are all finding strange with his random comments.

Overall though consider the state of what Moyes left and look at us now and I would have to consider what he has done so far to be a success when you put it into that perspective.
 
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Sultan said:
It's so obvious you don't need to hire data analysts. I've even been seeing empty seats at the ground. An anomaly in previous seasons.
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clarkydaz said:
I work with fellow season ticket holders who sell their tickets for games more and more now.
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Its starting to become like that. I bet there will be lot of empty seats next weekend against Norwich. Many ST holders I know are selling it off cause they think its not worth sitting through it.
 
The football has been boring me to tears for a long time now. Said in November last year that it was 'like watching paint dry in the main'. It's all a far cry from the pace, flair and never say die attitude of Fergie's best teams - the teams that attracted me to Manchester United in the first place.

Going out of the Champions League at the group stages is also not what I was looking for at the start of the season. Given Van Gaal has tended to be quite good at tournament football, I expected the early knock-out stages at least. And we really should've been able to beat PSV at home. So the criticism Van Gaal is attracting here is legitimate and warranted.

On the other hand, everyone seems to have forgotten that we're still actually in the title race. 3 points behind Leicester - who realistically, won't stay there - and only one point behind Arsenal and City, or main rivals.

This time last year, we were 11 points behind leaders Chelsea, and 8 points behind 2nd placed City. So that is progress of sorts. We may end up falling away over the next few months. On the other hand, we might end up rallying, a la the City/Tottenham/Liverpool run of games last season. It's absolutely not beyond the realms of possibility.

Calling for LvG to be sacked now, while sort of understandable, seems a bit of an overreaction. I do believe we're making steady progress, and that he'll leave the club in a much better state than he found it.
 
Brocky said:
2 - Pep and Carlo aside, who do you get? I'd have maybe said Klopp, but that's about it. Giggs would be a ridiculous move, at this point in time, imho. So, unless we can get either of those two, it'd be a bad move, looking at the big picture of things, to get rid of LVG. At the end of next season, when he does leave, whoever takes over at that point will have a solid foundation to work with. Thats what he means by "process", I believe. He's rebuilding the club that was left in a mess by lack of investment in the last two seasons under Fergie and the Moyes debacle. The result was that the whole squad pretty much went to shit. LVG is sorting that out.
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I disagree with the notion that we should not sack LVG because Pep and Ancelotti is not available. What if they are never available?

I am starting to believe the players are starting to lose faith in him and if this continues on, there is no reason for him to stay. At this point he is doing more damage to the squad than rebuild it

Brocky said:
LVG will pass the club onto the next guy in a miles better state than he found it. Tactics, formations, training methods and, yes, even philosophies can all be re-evaluated and changed within a couple of months by a new manager. It's not like we'll never be able to play entertaining ever again!
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Yet it takes LVG more than 18 months???
 
After LVG's press performance it's pretty clear he's adopting that extreme persona from his final days at Bayern - bizarre statements and stupid comments. The guy is losing it as he has with the squad and their performances. When the journalists turn up the heat his demeanour will implode and his press-cons will explode. Get ready for the ride guys the muppet is about to supernova.
 
NessunDorma said:
The football has been boring me to tears for a long time now. Said in November last year that it was 'like watching paint dry in the main'. It's all a far cry from the pace, flair and never say die attitude of Fergie's best teams - the teams that attracted me to Manchester United in the first place.

Going out of the Champions League at the group stages is also not what I was looking for at the start of the season. Given Van Gaal has tended to be quite good at tournament football, I expected the early knock-out stages at least. And we really should've been able to beat PSV at home. So the criticism Van Gaal is attracting here is legitimate and warranted.

On the other hand, everyone seems to have forgotten that we're still actually in the title race. 3 points behind Leicester - who realistically, won't stay there - and only one point behind Arsenal and City, or main rivals.

This time last year, we were 11 points behind leaders Chelsea, and 8 points behind 2nd placed City. So that is progress of sorts. We may end up falling away over the next few months. On the other hand, we might end up rallying, a la the City/Tottenham/Liverpool run of games last season. It's absolutely not beyond the realms of possibility.

Calling for LvG to be sacked now, while sort of understandable, seems a bit of an overreaction. I do believe we're making steady progress, and that he'll leave the club in a much better state than he found it.
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We have 1 point more at this stage than last year, just because the Premier League continues to decline doesnt mean we've made much progress under LvG. I dare to say that he wouldnt get top 4 with what he's showed so far in 13/14. Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool have also declined since then. Honestly I wouldnt be content if I was Woodward with just being a contender in PL, the league is poor, United should be one of the European giants, but we cant even get out of the easiest group..
 
Sammyjunn said:
We have 1 point more at this stage than last year,
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Yeah, but those comparisons never really work, for all sorts of reasons. You can only judge a team within the context of the league they are in here and now, and we're much closer to the top than we were last year.
 
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