LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[Kostur]

I'm sickened there's so many United fans that want him out so early. We are meant to be one of the "good-guy" clubs, that give managers a chance to prove their worth and to apply their teaching and principles to the club. We did that with Ferguson after a floundering start and thank Christ for that.

Here we have LvG, one of the most proven and decorated managers in the game today. A manager who has bought well (Martial and Blind have been our best performers this season, and most people didn't know who they were this time last season). A manager who has given youth a chance, giving a debut to countless players in our youth system - something 99% of managers would not have the balls to do at the highest level, but something that has been lauded for years as "the United way" (I guess "we can't win anything with kids"). A manager who has, in a relatively short space of time, shown that he can improve the side.

Defensively we have performed at the highest level in about fifteen years. This is with Chris Smalling (who, before LvG was around, was a calamity of a player - let's not forget) playing out of his skin, Ashley Young, Messiah reincarnate with LvG's influence (need I say anything about his pre-LvG contributions), Blind being excellent and Luke Shaw being extremely unlucky.

Our one ray of sunshine in attack has been Martial, who LvG brought in despite WIDESPREAD criticism, for God sake.

I think it's sickening that United fans want a manager this experience out. I think it's really entitled, horrible and genuinely sickening, a symptom of the age that we are in. LvG took a poison chalice with taking managerial control of a club that was aging, wildly imbalanced, and had expectations far above their current level. He has made progress, and a lot of it - to get rid of him now when he has barely begun that process is an irrational, unfair product of this instant-gratification world. Removing him now is ultimately something that we would live to regret dearly.

You're taking it to next level.

He wouldn't have to 'give the chance to the youth' in the first place if he didn't feck up buying a decent CB in the summer, brought in second natural RB perhaps and didn't have to rely on Lingard in attack because he fecked up buying attacking players.

So Blind and Martial have been our best performers, sure, Fellaini was one of our better performers last season but it doesn't make Moyes any less shit for us than he really was.

 

[gooDevil]

Meh. His job was to stabilize us as a top 4 team and title challenger, that's been done so far.

I feel like he didn't do a lot of homework on our players, like with injuries, but also with cutting loose Evra, Hernandez and Januzaj for no good reason. Obviously our injuries exasterbate the lack of depth. Depth, that helped win us the league several times in the last several seasons.

If we challenge for the title then I think he's done his job for this season.

But I'm eager to see us step back into the European top 5 or so.

 

[JPRouve]

Meh. His job was to stabilize us as a top 4 team and title challenger, that's been done so far.

I feel like he didn't do a lot of homework on our players, like with injuries, but also with cutting loose Evra, Hernandez and Januzaj for no good reason. Obviously our injuries exasterbate the lack of depth. Depth, that helped win us the league several times in the last several seasons.

If we challenge for the title then I think he's done his job for this season.

But I'm eager to see us step back into the European top 5 or so.

Evra wanted to go, iirc Van gaal wanted him to stay.

 

[Sultan]

. Removing him now is ultimately something that we would live to regret dearly.

Alternatively, keeping him is something that we might live to regret. Judging from the previous 18 Months he's hardly endeared himself to United fans. He's admitted being only here for the short term. Personally, it doesn't make much sense to give him an open chequebook when the next manager might want something entirely different.

 

[Spock]

Unless the slide is precipitous, Louis should remain on board until May. By then he will have done what he could have hoped to do.

As for the third season, what top player could we possibly attract to United with the knowledge that the manager who brought him there will be gone in one season? No one, really.

Two full seasons, thank him for his work and move on with a new manager.

 

[Livewire1974]

I voted "Evaluate at the end of the season". But by "evaluate" I meant replace.

Why bother waiting? Better to get it done before he does more damage.

 

[Tyrion]

Why bother waiting? Better to get it done before he does more damage.

I don't think any option we have is better than changing in the summer. If I was in charge, I'd start negotiating with Pep and Ancelotti to see who'll take over in the summer (if they're interested), with Guardiola being the first choice. I don't think LVGs doing any damage, just that we are stagnating and haven't progressed enough to justify keeping him while the playing style is a good reason to look elsewhere. Sacking him in December while we're still competing for the title (sorta - there'll be no title race this here, just an accidental winner), may make us look trigger happy (which could put off Guardiola) or could risk top 4 if we appoint an inexperienced manager.

 

[spwd]

Personally I'd get Carlo in now and give him free reign for the rest of the season while talking to pep and deciding which of the two to go with because I believe lvg has done as much as he will achieve so no point waiting until the end of the season.
If we get Carlo in now he will have chance to assess the team before the summer and act accordingly sooner than waiting until the end of the season to do anything.
If lvg was pulling up trees then it would be a different matter but he seems to be getting worse, and like others have said before we should act now instead of waiting too long and writing off the season like we did with the ginger one

 

[pocco]

Personally I'd get Carlo in now and give him free reign for the rest of the season while talking to pep and deciding which of the two to go with because I believe lvg has done as much as he will achieve so no point waiting until the end of the season.
If we get Carlo in now he will have chance to assess the team before the summer and act accordingly sooner than waiting until the end of the season to do anything.
If lvg was pulling up trees then it would be a different matter but he seems to be getting worse, and like others have said before we should act now instead of waiting too long and writing off the season like we did with the ginger one

Good plan. Potentially 4 managers in a 3 year period.

 

[spwd]

If they're not good enough they're not good enough, lvg says he's not staying anyway so why does it matter, if Carlo does well keep him, but my point is we shouldn't wait until the end of the season to change IF we do,the longer the new guy is here the better.

 

[spwd]

Personally I'd prefer it if lvg was a success but I can't see him doing much more than he has and we have the potential to get Carlo/pep so we would be fools not to try to get one of them for the long run

 

[roykeane19]

Theres obviously a reason in his first stint at Barca he only stayed 3 years, 2nd stint at Barca he was sacked after 1 year, and for Bayern he only lasted 2 years.
The simple fact is hes just not a good manager, hes been very lucky he got to manage 2 of the worlds biggest clubs, especially with the players they had

 

[LeftyBlaster]

I'm sickened there's so many United fans that want him out so early. We are meant to be one of the "good-guy" clubs, that give managers a chance to prove their worth and to apply their teaching and principles to the club. We did that with Ferguson after a floundering start and thank Christ for that.

Here we have LvG, one of the most proven and decorated managers in the game today. A manager who has bought well (Martial and Blind have been our best performers this season, and most people didn't know who they were this time last season). A manager who has given youth a chance, giving a debut to countless players in our youth system - something 99% of managers would not have the balls to do at the highest level, but something that has been lauded for years as "the United way" (I guess "we can't win anything with kids"). A manager who has, in a relatively short space of time, shown that he can improve the side.

Defensively we have performed at the highest level in about fifteen years. This is with Chris Smalling (who, before LvG was around, was a calamity of a player - let's not forget) playing out of his skin, Ashley Young, Messiah reincarnate with LvG's influence (need I say anything about his pre-LvG contributions), Blind being excellent and Luke Shaw being extremely unlucky.

Our one ray of sunshine in attack has been Martial, who LvG brought in despite WIDESPREAD criticism, for God sake.

I think it's sickening that United fans want a manager this experience out. I think it's really entitled, horrible and genuinely sickening, a symptom of the age that we are in. LvG took a poison chalice with taking managerial control of a club that was aging, wildly imbalanced, and had expectations far above their current level. He has made progress, and a lot of it - to get rid of him now when he has barely begun that process is an irrational, unfair product of this instant-gratification world. Removing him now is ultimately something that we would live to regret dearly.

The drama is strong with this one.

First of all. Poisoned chalice? Wildly imbalanced? Ffs. You make us sound like a relegation threatened club whose squad just got gutted.

Defensively we are not at be highest level ever for 15 years. And before you quote me the stats, use your eyes to look at how vulnerable we are every game and how dependent we are on De Gea and the lack of clinical finishing on the opposition's part.
He gave himself three years here. It's not like we signed him for 7 like Moyes and are wanting him out now.

The important thing is to actually use your own eyes and look at how poor we are on the pitch for the majority of his tenure so far. Now, couple that with his constant lowering of standards and his refusal to change his approach to football. And you have someone who despite his experience and "decorations" has introduced a system that is poison to the club. So spare me your self righteous rhetoric bullshit.

 

[simonhch]

This isn't 1986. Football is a ruthless business. Just like it is in any industry. Top companies, and let's not forget that is what we are now...a company, don't tolerate failure. Environments are more dynamic and change is constant. It's not to be feared, it's to be embraced.

I'm all for giving a manager time if there is clear evidence he is building something in the medium or long term interests of the club, and short term survival isn't threatened. For the first time, I am questioning whether Van Gaal is meeting these simple objectives.

And by "short term survival" I mean preserving the ethos of the club, remaining competitive, ensuring champions league participation, and not damaging the brand.

 

[spwd]

And surely Simon he isn't?

 

[SteveJ]

Ashley Young, Messiah reincarnate

That line alone makes me think the whole post's a wind-up.

 

[Ramshock]

I expected this sooner.

 

[markorm]

Tired of his shite.

Shut the feck up with yer shite and let's play football. No processes no formulas, just football, yeah.


He's blowing through too many quality players and dumbing down talented players to fit in his bullshit system, I'm now sick of watching a limp 11 bobble around the pitch.

I'm now don't care too much if I miss a game, I'm not split, just fed up.

Leave please. Ancelotti please.

 

[Utd7]

If the underwhelming performances weren't enough to convince you he's not the right man for the job, then his quotes at the press conference should be. We used to critize Moyes for not having the right mentality to manage a club the stature of Manchester United and LvG's quotes today were shocking. He tried to defend the loss, alluding to the fact we played a young team and could still cause damage to Wolfsburg? His message was essentially, it's more difficult to win now and the fans should accept dissapointment because this is the competative climate now. I've lost all faith in LvG honestly and I was a big advocate for his hire.

 

[Tyrion]

This isn't 1986. Football is a ruthless business. Just like it is in any industry. Top companies, and let's not forget that is what we are now...a company, don't tolerate failure. Environments are more dynamic and change is constant. It's not to be feared, it's to be embraced.

Well you would say that, you're the evil boss.

I agree though. For all the talk of United giving managers time, we had SAF for over 20 years. What idiot would sack him? It's the equivalent of praising Barcelona's coaches for spotting that 18 year old Messi "had potential". Our "traditions" keep getting twisted around and exaggerated beyond common sense.
Plus United have far more advantages now then back then ito money and resources. United managers have more resources now so are expected to accomplish more - seems fair to me.

 

[Ødegaard]

That line alone makes me think the whole post's a wind-up.

I just think he's a bit thick.

 

[Brocky]

I don't often post, but here's what I think.

As long as we don't drop out of qualifying for the CL, he should be allowed to see out his contract....UNLESS, Guardiola is available at the end of the season. Why? Well...

1 - He was brought in to do a job. His brief from the board was to steady the ship, improve the team and win a title if possible. As has been said many times, that's something he's done before at big clubs. For me, he's doing that. He's playing youth. He's buying prospects. He's building from the back (as Fergie always did, if we were having bad times) and we're within touching distance of the title. He's doing what the board tasked him with, to be fair.

2 - Pep and Carlo aside, who do you get? I'd have maybe said Klopp, but that's about it. Giggs would be a ridiculous move, at this point in time, imho. So, unless we can get either of those two, it'd be a bad move, looking at the big picture of things, to get rid of LVG. At the end of next season, when he does leave, whoever takes over at that point will have a solid foundation to work with. Thats what he means by "process", I believe. He's rebuilding the club that was left in a mess by lack of investment in the last two seasons under Fergie and the Moyes debacle. The result was that the whole squad pretty much went to shit. LVG is sorting that out.

Injuries permitting, we're a left-back, a top striker and a forward-thinking midfielder away from a CL contender squad, imo. If we can get Rooney out of the door and get Woody to snap up a mobile, clinical #9 and Bale or a forward of similar ilk, from a squad point of view, we're well on our way. There are more factors, other than just personel, of course....which brings me to...

Style. Sure, the style of football is boring. Really....fecking....boring. But I honestly think that between that and the fans' inevitable, massive, expectation for results that comes with being a United manager, some people are just not seeing the bigger picture of what he was brought in to do by the board.

On the subject of expectations; When he was brought in I'm quite sure that most fans' expectations were pretty much the same as mine. First season - back in CL. Second season - challenging for the league and CL group qualification. Third season - We should be winning the league or CL. Anything more is a bonus. So, aside from the obvious, he's on track. He's rebuilding the squad and playing youth. He's going to leave the club in a solid position. I think we as fans need to look at the big picture, ride out the shit football, get behind him and we will be better off for it in the long run.

Unless we can get Pep.

Regarding the money he's had available. Yeah, he's spent a lot but let's be fair, Di Maria - 60m - accounts for a quarter of that money. Who the feck expected that to turn out the way it did? So we've got...

Herrera, Shaw, Blind - all very good players with plenty of years left.
Memphis, Martial - young, potentially top talent, not quite there.
Schweinsteiger - brought in for his experience and leadership (which we sorely lacked and was what we were all crying out for 18 months ago) hasn't done it, but early days.
Schneiderlin, Rojo, Darmian - not amazing buys but good and should become good first teamers or at least fringe players.

So, has he really bought bad? Honestly?

To put it into a bit of perspective, that's nine players - ten, if we count Di Maria - City's front five cost £200m.

Also, for those that have only known good times with attacking, entertaining football and don't already know; ask the older fans about the Sexton & Atkinson era. They'll tell you about how, after the steaming pile of shit we were turning out under Sexton, Atkinson was brought in to play attacking, entertaining football, like we had previously under Busby. It was good and pleased the fans for a while and then results went to shit and that became the issue. So we brought in a hard-headed manager to sort things out from the ground up. His first few years were poor, we were playing comparatively defensive and boring football, not getting great results and people wanted him sacked, but he was clearing out dead wood, playing youth, building a foundation. He only ended up being at the helm through the club's most stable and most dominant era, dontchya know!.

Now, of course I'm not suggesting that LVG will do that. I believe that there will never be anyone to emulate Fergie in my lifetime, in fact. My point is, I believe that we need that kind of manager at this point in time and that people need to get over the modern day, media-fueled need for instant gratification, look past the relatively boring football we're currently playing at this moment in time - something that we've not been used to for an unprecedented number of years and, in fact, many NEVER have experienced - and then consider the bigger picture.

LVG will pass the club onto the next guy in a miles better state than he found it. Tactics, formations, training methods and, yes, even philosophies can all be re-evaluated and changed within a couple of months by a new manager. It's not like we'll never be able to play entertaining ever again!

Right now, though, I think we need LVG and getting rid would be the worst thing we could do.

Unless we can get Pep.

Always get Pep.

Pep.

 

[Sarni]

it's fair to say he's not the genius we expected and the genius he claims himself to be constantly. In fact, he's a bit of an idiot. The constant contradictions in what he says, ridiculous tactical decisions and substitutions, and bizarre transfer choices keep further highlighting that the man is an ignorant, cocky fecker who is full of self-righteous bullshit.

He's that guy at work who tricks you into thinking he's amazing at his job when you first meet him, but the more you work with him and see him actually do the work, the more you realise he's terrible at his job and just fools everyone into thinking he's great with his constant hyping up of himself.

That's just so accurate. Everything van Gaal does is aimed at making him look like a genius. He will make odd decisions no one else would never make to prove that he's better and it has actually been the most annoying thing with him. He will hate and drop a good performer (Herrera) but will praise and keep someone who is awful for long periods (Rooney).

 

[The Red Thinker]

I don't often post, but here's what I think.

As long as we don't drop out of qualifying for the CL, he should be allowed to see out his contract....UNLESS, Guardiola is available at the end of the season. Why? Well...

1 - He was brought in to do a job. His brief from the board was to steady the ship, improve the team and win a title if possible. As has been said many times, that's something he's done before at big clubs. For me, he's doing that. He's playing youth. He's buying prospects. He's building from the back (as Fergie always did, if we were having bad times) and we're within touching distance of the title. He's doing what the board tasked him with, to be fair.

2 - Pep and Carlo aside, who do you get? I'd have maybe said Klopp, but that's about it. Giggs would be a ridiculous move, at this point in time, imho. So, unless we can get either of those two, it'd be a bad move, looking at the big picture of things, to get rid of LVG. At the end of next season, when he does leave, whoever takes over at that point will have a solid foundation to work with. Thats what he means by "process", I believe. He's rebuilding the club that was left in a mess by lack of investment in the last two seasons under Fergie and the Moyes debacle. The result was that the whole squad pretty much went to shit. LVG is sorting that out.

Injuries permitting, we're a left-back, a top striker and a forward-thinking midfielder away from a CL contender squad, imo. If we can get Rooney out of the door and get Woody to snap up a mobile, clinical #9 and Bale or a forward of similar ilk, from a squad point of view, we're well on our way. There are more factors, other than just personel, of course....which brings me to...

Style. Sure, the style of football is boring. Really....fecking....boring. But I honestly think that between that and the fans' inevitable, massive, expectation for results that comes with being a United manager, some people are just not seeing the bigger picture of what he was brought in to do by the board.

On the subject of expectations; When he was brought in I'm quite sure that most fans' expectations were pretty much the same as mine. First season - back in CL. Second season - challenging for the league and CL group qualification. Third season - We should be winning the league or CL. Anything more is a bonus. So, aside from the obvious, he's on track. He's rebuilding the squad and playing youth. He's going to leave the club in a solid position. I think we as fans need to look at the big picture, ride out the shit football, get behind him and we will be better off for it in the long run.

Unless we can get Pep.

Regarding the money he's had available. Yeah, he's spent a lot but let's be fair, Di Maria - 60m - accounts for a quarter of that money. Who the feck expected that to turn out the way it did? So we've got...

Herrera, Shaw, Blind - all very good players with plenty of years left.
Memphis, Martial - young, potentially top talent, not quite there.
Schweinsteiger - brought in for his experience and leadership (which we sorely lacked and was what we were all crying out for 18 months ago) hasn't done it, but early days.
Schneiderlin, Rojo, Darmian - not amazing buys but good and should become good first teamers or at least fringe players.

So, has he really bought bad? Honestly?

To put it into a bit of perspective, that's nine players - ten, if we count Di Maria - City's front five cost £200m.

Also, for those that have only known good times with attacking, entertaining football and don't already know; ask the older fans about the Sexton & Atkinson era. They'll tell you about how, after the steaming pile of shit we were turning out under Sexton, Atkinson was brought in to play attacking, entertaining football, like we had previously under Busby. It was good and pleased the fans for a while and then results went to shit and that became the issue. So we brought in a hard-headed manager to sort things out from the ground up. His first few years were poor, we were playing comparatively defensive and boring football, not getting great results and people wanted him sacked, but he was clearing out dead wood, playing youth, building a foundation. He only ended up being at the helm through the club's most stable and most dominant era, dontchya know!.

Now, of course I'm not suggesting that LVG will do that. I believe that there will never be anyone to emulate Fergie in my lifetime, in fact. My point is, I believe that we need that kind of manager at this point in time and that people need to get over the modern day, media-fueled need for instant gratification, look past the relatively boring football we're currently playing at this moment in time - something that we've not been used to for an unprecedented number of years and, in fact, many NEVER have experienced - and then consider the bigger picture.

LVG will pass the club onto the next guy in a miles better state than he found it. Tactics, formations, training methods and, yes, even philosophies can all be re-evaluated and changed within a couple of months by a new manager. It's not like we'll never be able to play entertaining ever again!

Right now, though, I think we need LVG and getting rid would be the worst thing we could do.

Unless we can get Pep.

Always get Pep.

Pep.

Brilliant post. Hit every bloody nail on the head.

The media can drive fan support. Imagine the 10-15 articles telling what is what, overpowering your own opinions in the process.

All it took was Scholsey to start shitting on the club. For Rio to join the chorus.

Let's see past the bullshit and just give the man a chance. By the way, 18 months is not nearly enough if you want to create a great teams again. It takes time. As Gary Neville said before he went to the lands beyond - All this team needs is one or two game-changing players and we can walk the league after.

We don't have that. Every top club has it but we dont.

Martial - too young to be consistent.
Memphis - Young and still adjusting to the prem.
Mata - can't single-handedly take the game on himself.
Lingard - Young and learning

You see we don't have an Alexis Sanchez. We don't have an Aguero or a Neymar or a Ronaldo or a Robben or Lewandowski or an Aubameyang....

THat X-factor. That top class man. We don't have it. Wayne Rooney was that man. He was supposed to be that man this year as well with a system focusing him as the point of attack. But, he's been well below average and that's why we're in the shit we're in.

 

[Water Melon]

So far, I have not seen anything to suggest that LvG will win the league this season and CL next. What I have seen is a team playing dull football, with ultra-precautious tactics and impotent attack. I would not be willing to give LvG another 100+ million quid to try to win the league. I honestly believe that the most important added value that a top manager brings to his team is an ability to get the maximum out of the existing squad and make additions to improve on that maximum. In LvG's world everything is perfect theoretically, however, practically we are hesitant to play proper football against the teams like West Ham and Leicester, or when City play Yaya fecking Toure as an attacker. We are the biggest brand in the world of football and we need to care about the value of this brand. I am sure Woodward realizes that.

 

[Womp]

Brilliant post. Hit every bloody nail on the head.

The media can drive fan support. Imagine the 10-15 articles telling what is what, overpowering your own opinions in the process.

All it took was Scholsey to start shitting on the club. For Rio to join the chorus.

Let's see past the bullshit and just give the man a chance. By the way, 18 months is not nearly enough if you want to create a great teams again. It takes time. As Gary Neville said before he went to the lands beyond - All this team needs is one or two game-changing players and we can walk the league after.

We don't have that. Every top club has it but we dont.

Martial - too young to be consistent.
Memphis - Young and still adjusting to the prem.
Mata - can't single-handedly take the game on himself.
Lingard - Young and learning

You see we don't have an Alexis Sanchez. We don't have an Aguero or a Neymar or a Ronaldo or a Robben or Lewandowski or an Aubameyang....

THat X-factor. That top class man. We don't have it. Wayne Rooney was that man. He was supposed to be that man this year as well with a system focusing him as the point of attack. But, he's been well below average and that's why we're in the shit we're in.

Don't agree, but for arguments sake let's say I do. Who's fault is it that we don't have that player? Who's fault is it that he put all his eggs in Wazza's basket? It's his. The same way it's his fault that he doesn't have the ability to switch up the tactics to accommodate the fact that we lack such a player. Why not switch to a counter attacking set-up, which would rely less on individual brilliance than a dire possession based system, with limited movement? It would be taking advantage of the fact that our attackers bar Mata are all quite quick, along with the fact that we have a good set of midfielders who are good at breaking up play and driving the ball forward.

He's running out of excuses, hence his weird press conferences, similar thing happened before Bayern and Barca drove him out I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The same way it's his fault that he doesn't have the ability to switch up the tactics to accommodate the fact that we lack such a player.

That's what bothers me more than anything. You look at the way we set up and our apparent inability to attack with real intent without suddenly looking overly shaky defensively - and you have to wonder. We have more resources than almost any other club on the planet, yet the manager has to shield the back four with two defensive midfielders - tactics usually employed by positively weak sides.

Something is completely off there. It shouldn't be necessary. I get the basic logic: Master the possession game and bring in a world beater to make the attack click. Fair enough. But the discrepancy between the ideal he's aiming for and the present reality of the team is too big. It's one of two: Either we are a positively weak side in terms of player quality (but that's his responsibility) - or they're not being used well. Or well enough.

 

[Kostur]

That's what bothers me more than anything. You look at the way we set up and our apparent inability to attack with real intent without suddenly looking overly shaky defensively - and you have to wonder. We have more resources than almost any other club on the planet, yet the manager has to shield the back four with two defensive midfielders - tactics usually employed by positively weak sides.

Something is completely off there. It shouldn't be necessary. I get the basic logic: Master the possession game and bring in a world beater to make the attack click. Fair enough. But the discrepancy between the ideal he's aiming for and the present reality of the team is too big. It's one of two: Either we are a positively weak side in terms of player quality (but that's his responsibility) - or they're not being used well. Or well enough.

Especially that we've played some decent football last year with formation that used only 1 defensive midfielder who was screening the defence and used two #8s.

 

[The Red Thinker]

Don't agree, but for arguments sake let's say I do. Who's fault is it that we don't have that player? Who's fault is it that he put all his eggs in Wazza's basket? It's his. The same way it's his fault that he doesn't have the ability to switch up the tactics to accommodate the fact that we lack such a player. Why not switch to a counter attacking set-up, which would rely less on individual brilliance than a dire possession based system, with limited movement? It would be taking advantage of the fact that our attackers bar Mata are all quite quick, along with the fact that we have a good set of midfielders who are good at breaking up play and driving the ball forward.

He's running out of excuses, hence his weird press conferences, similar thing happened before Bayern and Barca drove him out I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.

Wait... were you hiding under a rock when dozens of articles across two months linked us from Bale to Neymar? Neymar's dad admitted we tried to sign him. We were openly going after Bale. We were on the market and we were furiously searching. Hell we were ready to pay digusting amounts of money for Muller. Bayern emphatically said he's not for sale.

So is it for lack of trying? No. Did he want to get that man? Yes.

Who's fault you ask? Blame the transfer market why don't you? It's bloated and every player is costing a bomb. Plus that type of player simply isn't available. Simple as that.

It's all too easy to point the finger. Why don't you dig a little deeper and find out if there was a concentrated effort to sign that "marquee" player. Blame Woodward then? It's a business deal isn't it?

This isn't black and white. We got one of those marquee players and his name was Di Maria. Who the feck knew he was spineless and decided to not even try and adapt to the manager.

This is life. Get over what if's. We tried. We failed. Now we deal with it. It's not for lack of trying.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I don't often post, but here's what I think.

As long as we don't drop out of qualifying for the CL, he should be allowed to see out his contract....UNLESS, Guardiola is available at the end of the season. Why? Well...

1 - He was brought in to do a job. His brief from the board was to steady the ship, improve the team and win a title if possible. As has been said many times, that's something he's done before at big clubs. For me, he's doing that. He's playing youth. He's buying prospects. He's building from the back (as Fergie always did, if we were having bad times) and we're within touching distance of the title. He's doing what the board tasked him with, to be fair.

2 - Pep and Carlo aside, who do you get? I'd have maybe said Klopp, but that's about it. Giggs would be a ridiculous move, at this point in time, imho. So, unless we can get either of those two, it'd be a bad move, looking at the big picture of things, to get rid of LVG. At the end of next season, when he does leave, whoever takes over at that point will have a solid foundation to work with. Thats what he means by "process", I believe. He's rebuilding the club that was left in a mess by lack of investment in the last two seasons under Fergie and the Moyes debacle. The result was that the whole squad pretty much went to shit. LVG is sorting that out.

Injuries permitting, we're a left-back, a top striker and a forward-thinking midfielder away from a CL contender squad, imo. If we can get Rooney out of the door and get Woody to snap up a mobile, clinical #9 and Bale or a forward of similar ilk, from a squad point of view, we're well on our way. There are more factors, other than just personel, of course....which brings me to...

Style. Sure, the style of football is boring. Really....fecking....boring. But I honestly think that between that and the fans' inevitable, massive, expectation for results that comes with being a United manager, some people are just not seeing the bigger picture of what he was brought in to do by the board.

On the subject of expectations; When he was brought in I'm quite sure that most fans' expectations were pretty much the same as mine. First season - back in CL. Second season - challenging for the league and CL group qualification. Third season - We should be winning the league or CL. Anything more is a bonus. So, aside from the obvious, he's on track. He's rebuilding the squad and playing youth. He's going to leave the club in a solid position. I think we as fans need to look at the big picture, ride out the shit football, get behind him and we will be better off for it in the long run.

Unless we can get Pep.

Regarding the money he's had available. Yeah, he's spent a lot but let's be fair, Di Maria - 60m - accounts for a quarter of that money. Who the feck expected that to turn out the way it did? So we've got...

Herrera, Shaw, Blind - all very good players with plenty of years left.
Memphis, Martial - young, potentially top talent, not quite there.
Schweinsteiger - brought in for his experience and leadership (which we sorely lacked and was what we were all crying out for 18 months ago) hasn't done it, but early days.
Schneiderlin, Rojo, Darmian - not amazing buys but good and should become good first teamers or at least fringe players.

So, has he really bought bad? Honestly?

To put it into a bit of perspective, that's nine players - ten, if we count Di Maria - City's front five cost £200m.

Also, for those that have only known good times with attacking, entertaining football and don't already know; ask the older fans about the Sexton & Atkinson era. They'll tell you about how, after the steaming pile of shit we were turning out under Sexton, Atkinson was brought in to play attacking, entertaining football, like we had previously under Busby. It was good and pleased the fans for a while and then results went to shit and that became the issue. So we brought in a hard-headed manager to sort things out from the ground up. His first few years were poor, we were playing comparatively defensive and boring football, not getting great results and people wanted him sacked, but he was clearing out dead wood, playing youth, building a foundation. He only ended up being at the helm through the club's most stable and most dominant era, dontchya know!.

Now, of course I'm not suggesting that LVG will do that. I believe that there will never be anyone to emulate Fergie in my lifetime, in fact. My point is, I believe that we need that kind of manager at this point in time and that people need to get over the modern day, media-fueled need for instant gratification, look past the relatively boring football we're currently playing at this moment in time - something that we've not been used to for an unprecedented number of years and, in fact, many NEVER have experienced - and then consider the bigger picture.

LVG will pass the club onto the next guy in a miles better state than he found it. Tactics, formations, training methods and, yes, even philosophies can all be re-evaluated and changed within a couple of months by a new manager. It's not like we'll never be able to play entertaining ever again!

Right now, though, I think we need LVG and getting rid would be the worst thing we could do.

Unless we can get Pep.

Always get Pep.

Pep.

This, along with @Reapersoul20 's post, puts some perspective into place. Unless Pep becomes available, and it's either us or City for him, stick with LVG till the end of his contract. Woodward needs to do his bit in the next window, though.

 

[Womp]

Wait... were you hiding under a rock when dozens of articles across two months linked us from Bale to Neymar? Neymar's dad admitted we tried to sign him. We were openly going after Bale. We were on the market and we were furiously searching. Hell we were ready to pay digusting amounts of money for Muller. Bayern emphatically said he's not for sale.

So is it for lack of trying? No. Did he want to get that man? Yes.

Who's fault you ask? Blame the transfer market why don't you? It's bloated and every player is costing a bomb. Plus that type of player simply isn't available. Simple as that.

It's all too easy to point the finger. Why don't you dig a little deeper and find out if there was a concentrated effort to sign that "marquee" player. Blame Woodward then? It's a business deal isn't it?

This isn't black and white. We got one of those marquee players and his name was Di Maria. Who the feck knew he was spineless and decided to not even try and adapt to the manager.

This is life. Get over what if's. We tried. We failed. Now we deal with it. It's not for lack of trying.

So basically:

1. We tried signing Neymar and Muller and failed, whilst just about knowing they would never join us.
2. We signed Di maria and he flopped, then sold him a season after and replaced him with potential in Depay, which hasn't worked out in our favour yet.
3. We let available and very good players move to other clubs, KDB etc, due to reason one.
4. We sold nearly half our squad and didn't buy any back-up and now are playing 18 year old reserves who haven't played first team football their whole life.

All this and LVG isn't the issue? The fact that we "tried" isn't a good enough excuse, I'm sure Bristol City would try and sign Neymar too, doesn't mean he's going to sign for them. The transfer market being "bloated" is also not an excuse considering all fecking summer all Woodward spoke about was how we have "unlimited funds" and would pay top money for top players, how did other clubs manage to strengthen?

Fact of the matter is LVG bought some good players in Darmian, BFS etc, but spending your whole summer trying for the world's best players when everyone knew it'd be almost impossible for them to join and not having any plan b's is LVG's fault. He signed Martial and was extremely surprised by how good he was, he himself said it. He didn't obtain the players, then he didn't implement a system to accommodate the players he did have, he's too stubborn with his philosophy.

 

[bleedred]

Wait... were you hiding under a rock when dozens of articles across two months linked us from Bale to Neymar? Neymar's dad admitted we tried to sign him. We were openly going after Bale. We were on the market and we were furiously searching. Hell we were ready to pay digusting amounts of money for Muller. Bayern emphatically said he's not for sale.

So is it for lack of trying? No. Did he want to get that man? Yes.

Who's fault you ask? Blame the transfer market why don't you? It's bloated and every player is costing a bomb. Plus that type of player simply isn't available. Simple as that.

It's all too easy to point the finger. Why don't you dig a little deeper and find out if there was a concentrated effort to sign that "marquee" player. Blame Woodward then? It's a business deal isn't it?

This isn't black and white. We got one of those marquee players and his name was Di Maria. Who the feck knew he was spineless and decided to not even try and adapt to the manager.

This is life. Get over what if's. We tried. We failed. Now we deal with it. It's not for lack of trying.

Are you telling us that we needed these marquee signings like Bale, Neymar,Muller for us to win against the likes of N'castle, PSV,CSKA, and West ham!!!

Trying?. We could try to sign in Messi in every transfer window and say well, we tried and couldnt get the marquee signing. What was the plan B or C, if we didnt get the targets?. Whose fault is that?

 

[Adisa]

I ask again, what do the people who want him sacked now want the club to do?

 

[NJM78]

So basically:

1. We tried signing Neymar and Muller and failed, whilst just about knowing they would never join us.
2. We signed Di maria and he flopped, then sold him a season after and replaced him with potential in Depay, which hasn't worked out in our favour yet.
3. We let available and very good players move to other clubs, KDB etc, due to reason one.
4. We sold nearly half our squad and didn't buy any back-up and now are playing 18 year old reserves who haven't played first team football their whole life.

All this and LVG isn't the issue? The fact that we "tried" isn't a good enough excuse, I'm sure Bristol City would try and sign Neymar too, doesn't mean he's going to sign for them. The transfer market being "bloated" is also not an excuse considering all fecking summer all Woodward spoke about was how we have "unlimited funds" and would pay top money for top players, how did other clubs manage to strengthen?

Fact of the matter is LVG bought some good players in Darmian, BFS etc, but spending your whole summer trying for the world's best players when everyone knew it'd be almost impossible for them to join and not having any plan b's is LVG's fault. He signed Martial and was extremely surprised by how good he was, he himself said it. He didn't obtain the players, then he didn't implement a system to accommodate the players he did have, he's too stubborn with his philosophy.

This.

Players were available he just went after rare diamonds from super clubs and yes whilst we are still a super club we have a bunch of cubic zirkonias playing horrible football under a stubborn coach. I don't see the appeal myself to the worlds best players wanting to come here. A manager like Pep would surely help with this but even then I highly doubt we'd get any of these players. His (LvG) transfers have been very hit and miss.

Even when we were on top our transfer strategy was very odd. I know this is not the current managers fault but how come Liverpool could buy Suarez when everyone could see at Ajax he was going to be a great player, even Torres they got who for a few years was untouchable. City got Aguero and Yaya and now De Bruyne. We were signing the likes of Zaha, Owen and Valencia etc. Arsenal signed Sanchez whilst we went for Di Maria, that I still don't get and we all know that turned out shite for us - also we didn't prize the great Di Maria from Madrid they wanted him gone otherwise we would not have got him.

These are all great players who were and still are not considered on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo. Even Chelsea beat us to Hazard and Robben back in the day. United have either refused to pay or blatantly ignored these types of player and now we are struggling badly and desperate for top players.
Louis having us fail to get out of CL group as easy as ours was, being humiliated each year in our league cup by lower league teams, playing awful football for the most part over 18 months is not helping our cause one bit, I just don't see him being with us past the summer. Thats what I hope anyway. If we cant get Pep get Ancelloti. I think it will cost us another 200 plus million and a better and more appealing manager to get us back to challenging for the top honors.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I ask again, what do the people who want him sacked now want the club to do?

Not sure exactly waht you're getting at here, but I would imagine people want a better manager in, or a manger that at least tries to play the football United want to see, tbf it's not like there isn't an option out there.

Btw I didn't vote for him to be sacked.

 

[NoPace]

Unless the slide is precipitous, Louis should remain on board until May. By then he will have done what he could have hoped to do.

As for the third season, what top player could we possibly attract to United with the knowledge that the manager who brought him there will be gone in one season? No one, really.

Two full seasons, thank him for his work and move on with a new manager.

This is basically my view. A new manager who has us press and play faster can walk in the door and with the right 2-3 signings and a healthy Shaw and De Gea not in Madrid and we could really be good next season.

I'm surprised Pochettino to United isn't a bigger topic of discussion here.

 

[Xaviesta]

This is basically my view. A new manager who has us press and play faster can walk in the door and with the right 2-3 signings and a healthy Shaw and De Gea not in Madrid and we could really be good next season.

I'm surprised Pochettino to United isn't a bigger topic of discussion here.

So am I. If they maintain the excellent progress made with him I'm charge, that might change. He's brought through young players, English players fwiw and got Spurs playing some good football.

 

[Dans]

He'll soon be a distant memory, another blip, like Moyes, in our history. He'll have achieved nothing.

 

[shivab]

You have to give credit where its due. He's got some young players through who are playing well. But there are some young players like Memphis wilson and mcnair who are underperforming/ underperformed under him.
We are touching distance from the top of the league but we are also out of the CL.
Everything isnt terrible there are many positives to take but we are all focussed on the negatives because of two reasons imo -
1)hes an arrogant stubborn dictatorial fecker
2)the style of football and the joy being sucked out if it.

His personality isnt going to change anytime soon (or ever) so if van gaal sets the latter right and makes us play more attractive football, finishes in the top 4 while continuing to give young academy players a chance he will win back a lot of fans even if we don't win any trophies this year.

 

[Question234]

I ask again, what do the people who want him sacked now want the club to do?

fire lvg and sign ancelotti mid season and during an injury crisis lol then want him fired for pep when he doesnt even make top 4.

Our fans.