LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

Do you want LVG sacked?

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RedPnutz said:
You make good points overall but a lot of it is hindsight isn't it?

Hiring Moyes was probably the key problem that impacted our ability to sign players and led to a cascade of poor outcomes. Ability aside (since there was a infinitesimal chance he could have come good), but I am thinking it is difficult for the likes of Thiago and Cesc to get excited about playing for Moyes. I think we tried to sign some quality players that summer but they didn't want to come. Also I think Moyes simply felt comfortable with Rooney - sort of like a security blanket if you will. He knew Rooney since youth and Rooney's stature at the club then (and possibly his agent) caused him to find comfort and extend Rooney's contract.

As for LVG's hire, I agree that it was a logical decision. Regarding replacements, to be fair that's difficult to predict. We did sign ADM, Falcao, Shaw and Herrera. And we were not in the CL so the squad couldn't have been that bloated.
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Amol, I like the direction you're heading in and you have it spot on regarding Cesc and Thiago. I said it myself at the time. For the record, I was in the Moyes Out camp even before he was appointed, for this very reason. He was never going to attract the best players. That said, I disagree on your take on his feelings about Rooney. I think he panicked. He was going through a tough and rough patch. Also, Rooney was his star player and someone seen as a 'talisman' by fans. Apart from being the one setting new record lows for losses, he didn't want to go down in United lore as the manager that lost Rooney. Simple as. That's why he completely reversed the move SAF had made to get rid of Rooney. And we're paying the price. Ed's to blame too. Ed is a money-man. Rooney sells the most jerseys. He therefore went with the money...

Regarding replacements, I remember the day we landed Falcao. The fans were positively floating. Recall several posts about how United had the best forward line in the world etc. with RvP, Rooney, Falcao and di Maria. So it's hard to blame the management for that bit. I really think I'll lay off Ed on that one. He may have overspent, but remember that the world and its dog knew our position and we weren't in Europe either. This summer, he pulled off real bargains when it came to Morgan and Basti in particular.

amolbhatia50k said:
And no, it's not that I'm not counting SAF and SBC, I'm calling our only two men being two extremely old chaps, very odd. Get the bright minds of our recent ex-players on board. Ajax have, for example, hired Van Der Sar, as their marketing director, presumably because he knows Ajax through and through, is I imagine in their opinion intelligent, and has played for the best marketed football club on the planet.
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1. Like I said, totally agree we need a DOF. I was merely highlighting that we don't have one because we're still carrying the baggage of SAF's legacy. Also, he's on the Board and refuses to accept that a DOF is the way to go. So, well, we're stuck.

2. Who would these wise ex-players be though? United are screwed in that sense. Now, I know that pundits often spout clichés, but really, look at some of the guff we read:
a. Scholes? Wants Rooney to be the centerpiece of the squad. Also feels Giggs should be in charge. He himself wants no part in the management side.
b. Rio? Ummm... Never the smartest, was he?
c. Keane? Oh damn!
d. Robson? We've seen him in management already. Hardly setting the world alight...
e. Hughes? Doubt he'd drop full-time management...not now...
f. Neville? Awesome thought - but he's now a manager and just won't take this up...
g. Who else?

3. I don't think a DOF needs to be a "footballing man" per se and definitely not a recent player. Southampton rely on a mix of statisticians and coaches. Txiki has been awesome everywhere and is fairly old. Sammer isn't the most recent retired player... The list goes on...
 
Zexstream said:
Im sick of hearing people say he needs time.

Time for what exactly?

250 million and he has achieved in 18 months far less than Moyes achieved in 12 months.

Give LVG more time for what exactly? How could Giggs be any worse?

We need change, we need instant change, letting LVG stay for another few months is the very worst of all our options.
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He needs time. To get us to 6th place. He just needs time.
 
midnightmare said:
Amol, I like the direction you're heading in and you have it spot on regarding Cesc and Thiago. I said it myself at the time. For the record, I was in the Moyes Out camp even before he was appointed, for this very reason. He was never going to attract the best players. That said, I disagree on your take on his feelings about Rooney. I think he panicked. He was going through a tough and rough patch. Also, Rooney was his star player and someone seen as a 'talisman' by fans. Apart from being the one setting new record lows for losses, he didn't want to go down in United lore as the manager that lost Rooney. Simple as. That's why he completely reversed the move SAF had made to get rid of Rooney. And we're paying the price. Ed's to blame too. Ed is a money-man. Rooney sells the most jerseys. He therefore went with the money...

Regarding replacements, I remember the day we landed Falcao. The fans were positively floating. Recall several posts about how United had the best forward line in the world etc. with RvP, Rooney, Falcao and di Maria. So it's hard to blame the management for that bit. I really think I'll lay off Ed on that one. He may have overspent, but remember that the world and its dog knew our position and we weren't in Europe either. This summer, he pulled off real bargains when it came to Morgan and Basti in particular.



1. Like I said, totally agree we need a DOF. I was merely highlighting that we don't have one because we're still carrying the baggage of SAF's legacy. Also, he's on the Board and refuses to accept that a DOF is the way to go. So, well, we're stuck.

2. Who would these wise ex-players be though? United are screwed in that sense. Now, I know that pundits often spout clichés, but really, look at some of the guff we read:
a. Scholes? Wants Rooney to be the centerpiece of the squad. Also feels Giggs should be in charge. He himself wants no part in the management side.
b. Rio? Ummm... Never the smartest, was he?
c. Keane? Oh damn!
d. Robson? We've seen him in management already. Hardly setting the world alight...
e. Hughes? Doubt he'd drop full-time management...not now...
f. Neville? Awesome thought - but he's now a manager and just won't take this up...
g. Who else?

3. I don't think a DOF needs to be a "footballing man" per se and definitely not a recent player. Southampton rely on a mix of statisticians and coaches. Txiki has been awesome everywhere and is fairly old. Sammer isn't the most recent retired player... The list goes on...
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Van Der Sar was the obvious choice for me. We missed the boat on that. Neville would be an interesting option. From a purely footballing contacts perspective, Beckham has huge reach and appeal.
 
Been away for three days and I am completely baffled how he's still in the job. We've lost it completely, it will take years for the club to recover from the mismanagement since Ferguson left. It's completely mental to stick with van Gaal.
 
Loon said:
If he gets a window to spend in, he's not going until CL is impossible. I'm convinced he's staying now.
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Probably best to brace oneself for this. The upside, if one can call it that, is that the January window could give us a boost. A competent attacker of some description. Could brighten it up considerably, at least in theory.
 
LonelyFire said:
Van Der Sar was the obvious choice for me. We missed the boat on that. Neville would be an interesting option. From a purely footballing contacts perspective, Beckham has huge reach and appeal.
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Has appeal, but he's not the smartest guy. As DOF, you need someone with intelligence and vision and being a great footballer doesn't give you that. Neville would be great as he's already shown on telly that he sees beyond just what's happening on the ball. Becks, much though I like him, sounds quite empty when talking about football from a tactical perspective (just my opinion of course).

Sarni said:
It's completely mental to stick with van Gaal.
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Not so mental if you think about what they may be planning (I'll outline that below).

Ijazz17 said:
I think many have already mentioned it and I'll just reiterate the same. I feel the board are being decisive, but it's just that they are not (atleast, some members of the board) are not keen on getting mourinho. They ignored him the first time (Believe all the quotes of his 'promise' to Abrahmovic all you want, I honestly think he was sure he would get the job), why would they do a U-turn and give in now ? They might have contacted Pep's entourage behind the scenes but probably not got assurances, so they have little choice but to back can Gaal.
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Interesting take and one that I have too. My guess is that Ed won't want to pull the trigger now since everyone knows that Pep is available in the summer. Pep won't leave mid-season. He's got everything to play for with Bayern and nothing to play for at United (or Chelsea). Where will he go? Will he take a break? City? Chelsea? United? Frankly, if Ed pulls the trigger and appoints Mourinho, we'll lose out on Pep and lose out on him permanently. I feel there's a massive chance that we're trying like Hell to get Pep in. That means that if we fire LvG, we're looking for an interim manager. In turn, this rules out Mourinho for good.

If I were playing FIFA, I'd say "Let's bring in Carlo to manage us to the end of the season and then have him and Pep swap places". Since Ed's in the real world, with the limited options at his disposal, he's hoping that LvG can haul us through this and into the top 4 by season's end by which time he hopes to bring in Pep. Note that with all the other top clubs in Europe pretty settled, there's also a good chance that Mourinho himself will still be available at that time - should Pep decide to take his trophy magnet elsewhere...
 
If he's not gone after the Swansea match, I can only take it to mean the board was never going to sign Mourinho and we'll take our chances over the summer when it's easier to pry some of our targets away.

I don't know, I find that approach depressing but I can understand if they have no intention to get Jose. Suppose that route is the best in the long run.
 
Loon said:
If he gets a window to spend in, he's not going until CL is impossible. I'm convinced he's staying now.
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I have a feeling we've got someone lined up for Summer to take over.
 
midnightmare said:
Has appeal, but he's not the smartest guy. As DOF, you need someone with intelligence and vision and being a great footballer doesn't give you that. Neville would be great as he's already shown on telly that he sees beyond just what's happening on the ball. Becks, much though I like him, sounds quite empty when talking about football from a tactical perspective (just my opinion of course).


Not so mental if you think about what they may be planning (I'll outline that below).


Interesting take and one that I have too. My guess is that Ed won't want to pull the trigger now since everyone knows that Pep is available in the summer. Pep won't leave mid-season. He's got everything to play for with Bayern and nothing to play for at United (or Chelsea). Where will he go? Will he take a break? City? Chelsea? United? Frankly, if Ed pulls the trigger and appoints Mourinho, we'll lose out on Pep and lose out on him permanently. I feel there's a massive chance that we're trying like Hell to get Pep in. That means that if we fire LvG, we're looking for an interim manager. In turn, this rules out Mourinho for good.

If I were playing FIFA, I'd say "Let's bring in Carlo to manage us to the end of the season and then have him and Pep swap places". Since Ed's in the real world, with the limited options at his disposal, he's hoping that LvG can haul us through this and into the top 4 by season's end by which time he hopes to bring in Pep. Note that with all the other top clubs in Europe pretty settled, there's also a good chance that Mourinho himself will still be available at that time - should Pep decide to take his trophy magnet elsewhere...
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You need to wake up and realise Guardiola is not going to Utd. There is no race to be won. City have been lining this up for years.
 
Rory 7 said:
That's not actually true. At AZ for example he was almost out the door before going on to win the Eredivise.

I don't see any comparision with the LVG/Giggs plan and Liverpool/Leeds. Liverpool has managed succession very successfully for over twenty five years until King Kenny couldn't handle the pressure and Leeds imploded under the weight of their own debt. I don't know of any club who attempted to do what we are trying with LVG/Giggs, I don't know if it will work but at least is innovative!
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Wrong - in his career as a manager his longest stays were at Ajax and AZ where he did indeed win one championship but then he went to Bayern. The rest of his career involved two spells at Barca 3 and 1 seasons, Bayern 2 seasons, Holland 2 and 2. His time at Ajax was his most successful 20 years ago when he won silver. Since the Bundesliga in 2010 LVG has underachieved. Indeed his record has been on a gradual downward trajectory since his rise to prominence in the 1990s with Ajax.

Wrong - Liverpool continued to use the in-house route after Shankly in 1974 and up to and including Evans in 1998. This was successful for 16 years and they became the poster for English football. But then the club exploited it's in-house resources beyond their sell-by date in 1990 when they last won the league. The notions of continuity and stability failed the club as it became complacent about its former glories and arrogant in regards to the stability of the 'Liverpool Way reputation'. By 1998 it had failed and forced to accept outside managers, which it has never properly come to terms with. The proof of this was to once again turn to Dalgleish as a manager.

Ignored - Leeds in desperation went back to former players to restore club culture but Bremner was the only one to achieve success with a second division promotion. In addition the club leveraged enormous monies for players and at the point of coming back collapsed into a dreadful mess and almost disappeared.

The best managers bring new ideas, new ways of playing, and cast a vision for the club - hence Pep's popularity. Fergie, Busby and the Doc had these qualities in buckets. Since Fergie: Moyes was bereft of ideas that destroyed a championship side, LVG had a punt with marque players in his first season but only reached 4th and has now resorted to his 90s philosophy (Germans call it stoneage football), which is failing; and our board fiddles with no plan other than to keep making money while our great reputation burns.
 
midnightmare said:
Has appeal, but he's not the smartest guy. As DOF, you need someone with intelligence and vision and being a great footballer doesn't give you that. Neville would be great as he's already shown on telly that he sees beyond just what's happening on the ball. Becks, much though I like him, sounds quite empty when talking about football from a tactical perspective (just my opinion of course).


Not so mental if you think about what they may be planning (I'll outline that below).


Interesting take and one that I have too. My guess is that Ed won't want to pull the trigger now since everyone knows that Pep is available in the summer. Pep won't leave mid-season. He's got everything to play for with Bayern and nothing to play for at United (or Chelsea). Where will he go? Will he take a break? City? Chelsea? United? Frankly, if Ed pulls the trigger and appoints Mourinho, we'll lose out on Pep and lose out on him permanently. I feel there's a massive chance that we're trying like Hell to get Pep in. That means that if we fire LvG, we're looking for an interim manager. In turn, this rules out Mourinho for good.

If I were playing FIFA, I'd say "Let's bring in Carlo to manage us to the end of the season and then have him and Pep swap places". Since Ed's in the real world, with the limited options at his disposal, he's hoping that LvG can haul us through this and into the top 4 by season's end by which time he hopes to bring in Pep. Note that with all the other top clubs in Europe pretty settled, there's also a good chance that Mourinho himself will still be available at that time - should Pep decide to take his trophy magnet elsewhere...
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Yes, I too had suggested the FIFA option to bringing in Carlo till the end of the season. But we can't be sure that Mourinho will be available will he, if the Pep option fails. There are rumours that he might fancy the England job, and that Madrid want him back as well. Also, it's Mourinho, won't his pride take a massive hit if he knows he is second choice at United ? Would he really come then (Remember, it is Mourinho after all!)
 
Guys you need to get real, he ain't going anywhere unless he does not meet his targets. If he meets them, which the board obviously expect, why would they get rid of him.

Woody and LVG have made it abundantly clear this was a 3 year plan. Actions on that plan are to assess Giggs and to have a foundation that allows youth to be given a chance. Something will have to drastically change for LVG to be removed, and the availability of someone like Jose or Pep wont cut it.

Being peeved at our position and style is understandable, but you are only kidding yourself and building up your own dissatisfaction and stress levels by hanging on every, sometimes irrational, views that he is going.
 
AltiUn said:
I have a feeling we've got someone lined up for Summer to take over.
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The apparent safety of LVG's job seems to suggest to me that the plan might actually have all along been to get LVG to set the team up for Giggs.
 
midnightmare said:
I feel there's a massive chance that we're trying like Hell to get Pep in.
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There's also a massive chance Pep has already decided where he's off to. And if that is indeed the case, I doubt it's United. Frankly, I don't think Pep has been part of the scheme for United. Looks much more like Giggs has been the long-term candidate to me.

If we go for Maureen, it'll be because LVG's position has become untenable and a premature Giggs appointment is regarded as too risky. *

* Or that Maureen is too good an opportunity to let go. Him becoming available wasn't something we could've factored in.
 
Stretford End Phil said:
Wrong - in his career as a manager his longest stays were at Ajax and AZ where he did indeed win one championship but then he went to Bayern. The rest of his career involved two spells at Barca 3 and 1 seasons, Bayern 2 seasons, Holland 2 and 2. His time at Ajax was his most successful 20 years ago when he won silver. Since the Bundesliga in 2010 LVG has underachieved. Indeed his record has been on a gradual downward trajectory since his rise to prominence in the 1990s with Ajax.

Wrong - Liverpool continued to use the in-house route after Shankly in 1974 and up to and including Evans in 1998. This was successful for 16 years and they became the poster for English football. But then the club exploited it's in-house resources beyond their sell-by date in 1990 when they last won the league. The notions of continuity and stability failed the club as it became complacent about its former glories and arrogant in regards to the stability of the 'Liverpool Way reputation'. By 1998 it had failed and forced to accept outside managers, which it has never properly come to terms with. The proof of this was to once again turn to Dalgleish as a manager.

Ignored - Leeds in desperation went back to former players to restore club culture but Bremner was the only one to achieve success with a second division promotion. In addition the club leveraged enormous monies for players and at the point of coming back collapsed into a dreadful mess and almost disappeared.

The best managers bring new ideas, new ways of playing, and cast a vision for the club - hence Pep's popularity. Fergie, Busby and the Doc had these qualities in buckets. Since Fergie: Moyes was bereft of ideas that destroyed a championship side, LVG had a punt with marque players in his first season but only reached 4th and has now resorted to his 90s philosophy (Germans call it stoneage football), which is failing; and our board fiddles with no plan other than to keep making money while our great reputation burns.
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All wrong. Souness was an outside appointment for example. I could go on but I'm wasting my energy.
 
Akash said:
Which is why the people at the club have spent the best part of 300m in the last 3 season trying to claw their way back up the table right? Which is why we have repeatedly targeted big players over the last 3 transfer windows right? Because the club lacks ambition:rolleyes:
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Blindly throwing money about is one thing, being happy with drawing 0-0 at home to any team, not least a team 15th in the league and without their key players, is another.

Mitchell Nicholas said:
How about you give the name of a manager who'll fulfil what you want.
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That's not my job. But there are top class managers who can get the best out of our players and plenty more who can spend £300m and at least challenge the title. LvG won't even get top 4 this season. Its pathetic.

Adisa said:
Like who? I know some have mentioned Mourinho but the club might not be keen on him for obvious reasons. Giggs is a non starter as far as I'm concerned.
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Id rather see what Giggs is like as a manager first before writing him off.
 
Thing is, if Van Gaal meets his top four target, he'll get to finish his contract with another season. If it is to be Giggs after that, I hope Gary Neville comes in with him. Then just hope for the best.
 
Some of the rhetoric coming from the players after the game last night suggests that they've had their way with LVG re: the style of football.

Just seen tweats (via the official United account) from Schneiderlin and Herrera regarding playing attacking football.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Blindly throwing money about is one thing, being happy with drawing 0-0 at home to any team, not least a team 15th in the league and without their key players, is another.



That's not my job. But there are top class managers who can get the best out of our players and plenty more who can spend £300m and at least challenge the title. LvG won't even get top 4 this season. Its pathetic.



Id rather see what Giggs is like as a manager first before writing him off.
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IF you get rid of van Gaal, somebody has to replace him. Who would you bring in if it was your decision. What has Giggs done to warrant a shot at the United job? Nothing.
 
When Fergie retired, the Glazers wanted him to nominate his long term successor. Their rationale was they would not have to deal with some prima donna who will make waves when the investment was sold. Of course whoever Fergie selected will not cost an arm and a leg. It helped thier cause that Charlton said No to Morinho. What the Glazers did not expect was that Moyes was completely ill prepared for the job. In comes van Gaal to steady the ship, with Giggs being the succesor. What the Glazers did not expect was van Gaal wanting to bring forward his retirement a year and a half. My observation of the Bournemouth and the Norwich matches baffled me. I asked myself is this guy sabotaging the games? No one could be this incompetent. Someone here posted that was what he did at Bayern so he could get the Holland job.

This is why Morinho will not get the job, certainly while the Glazers remain the owners. Their plan obviously is sell the club in a couple of years. That is why they must have begged van Gaal to remain. It is also obvious that Giggs will be the next manager.

They will make some investments in the window to enable us to make that 4th spot. That is all we can expect.
 
Loon said:
Thing is, if Van Gaal meets his top four target, he'll get to finish his contract with another season. If it is to be Giggs after that, I hope Gary Neville comes in with him. Then just hope for the best.
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There is no way his target is the top 4. That was the bare minimum fecking last year! He needs to win something this year.
 
I still remember the clip of Martin Edwards shitting himself when asked if Brian Clough was in the running for the job when the Doc was binned.
 
What's really frustrating about the predicament we're in is that we have a solution, even if it's a short-term solution, to the problem right in front of us:

Jose Mourinho

The board's apparent loathing of Mourinho is irrational. He wins trophies and moves on. Giggs can learn the ropes of football management from one of the best in the business and in 2 or 3 seasons take over once Mourinho has won several trophies. How is not a perfect plan to prepare Giggs for the role of manager that, at least we believe, is what the board wants?

Giggs is nowhere near ready and experiences enough right now or this summer to take the job of manager of United.

As for the risks of a Mourinho regime, they are few and wildly overrated. The task right now is to restore order to a squad that has, let's be honest, lost confidence in its manager, severely underperforms and bores the shit out of club supporters and neutrals.

Allowing this to continue could have significant long-term commercial ramifications for the Glazers, which is reason enough to act boldly.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
IF you get rid of van Gaal, somebody has to replace him. Who would you bring in if it was your decision. What has Giggs done to warrant a shot at the United job? Nothing.
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There is always Mourinho, but what about one of the successful young south american manager, one of them has to be good?
 
Offside said:
There is no way his target is the top 4. That was the bare minimum fecking last year! He needs to win something this year.
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It's truly ridiculous how the goalposts keep shifting and the standards slipping. I keep hearing about "three year plans"- what good are these plans if there's absolutely no progression? LVG getting top four last season wasn't some stroke of genius; it was, as you said, the bare minimum. This season the expectation was that we'd challenge for the title, and that's just not happening at the moment.
 
JPRouve said:
There is always Mourinho, but what about one of the successful young south american manager, one of them has to be good?
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Mourinho is who i'd bring if i were United and van Gaal was sacked during the season. Which young South American manager are you talking about?
 
Stretford End Phil said:
:lol:
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What's so funny? Souness was appointed after he had 'proven' himself at Rangers, he left Liverpool some four years prior to his appointment as manager. He then returned, dismantled the aging mess Kenny left him and appointed his own staff. If that's not a outside appointment what is? It's the very opposite of what United are attempting with LVG and Giggs.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
IF you get rid of van Gaal, somebody has to replace him. Who would you bring in if it was your decision. What has Giggs done to warrant a shot at the United job? Nothing.
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If we're really playing this game and I magically become the United owner tomorrow, I would first try telling van Gaal to stop being a boring possession obsessed idiot and that United fans need attacking football, passion and goals.

If it didn't work out by March time, then I wouldn't just appoint someone off the top of my head, I would extensively research and talk to candidates. But even someone like Pellagrini, an unlikely candidate as he may be, has proven he can win the title with attacking football. And is very likely to be out of work come May. Guardiola you obviously have to consider, Mourinho would be worth talking to as well. We wouldn't be short of options
 
JPRouve said:
But foresight evaluation is also a thing, mid term evaluation too. You don't have to wait the end of cycle to evaluate it, in theory there should be milestones and if those milestones aren't reached repeatedly, actions should be taken.
Now, do you think that registering less than 50% of wins is a normal course of actions, do you think that recording less than 2pts per games is normal?

Considering that we are talking about Manchester United, the reality is that Van gaal's results have been extremely shit, it's not going to please a lot of people, some will say that we reached top 4 last season but we did it with less than 2pts per games, that's a Europa League performance.
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Yea I agree with you. It's fair to evaluate mid term as is the case in normal work, but I really don't have an idea how the board is viewing this. The fans are sort of closer to the ground but the board isn't. I suspect they might be treating a large part of fan discontent as just noise.
 
Red Dreams said:
When Fergie retired, the Glazers wanted him to nominate his long term successor. Their rationale was they would not have to deal with some prima donna who will make waves when the investment was sold. Of course whoever Fergie selected will not cost an arm and a leg. It helped thier cause that Charlton said No to Morinho. What the Glazers did not expect was that Moyes was completely ill prepared for the job. In comes van Gaal to steady the ship, with Giggs being the succesor. What the Glazers did not expect was van Gaal wanting to bring forward his retirement a year and a half. My observation of the Bournemouth and the Norwich matches baffled me. I asked myself is this guy sabotaging the games? No one could be this incompetent. Someone here posted that was what he did at Bayern so he could get the Holland job.

This is why Morinho will not get the job, certainly while the Glazers remain the owners. Their plan obviously is sell the club in a couple of years. That is why they must have begged van Gaal to remain. It is also obvious that Giggs will be the next manager.

They will make some investments in the window to enable us to make that 4th spot. That is all we can expect.
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The rapid decline in Bayern's football, was quite remarkable. Has to be said, LVG is quite devious, and plays all kinds of games with the media and his staff. What has been seen in UK is only a tip of his potential. Dutch and German TV pundits have been strong in their criticism, which was quite revealing during the last World Cup. When he referred to resignation after the Stoke game it was so obvious a decoy for the pundits. Problem is he knows he has nothing to lose if he fails - he can only get richer. In a sense football has constructed paradise for failures.
 
Stretford End Phil said:
The rapid decline in Bayern's football, was quite remarkable. Has to be said, LVG is quite devious, and plays all kinds of games with the media and his staff. What has been seen in UK is only a tip of his potential. Dutch and German TV pundits have been strong in their criticism, which was quite revealing during the last World Cup. When he referred to resignation after the Stoke game it was so obvious a decoy for the pundits. Problem is he knows he has nothing to lose if he fails - he can only get richer. In a sense football has constructed paradise for failures.
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Interesting comments. Can you go into more detail on the kinds of "games" he plays?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The apparent safety of LVG's job seems to suggest to me that the plan might actually have all along been to get LVG to set the team up for Giggs.
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Would be the cheapest option for the money men that run the club today. Moyes should have been gone earlier but they waited til we couldn't get top 4 as it was cheaper.

Credit to our fans but they're happy to take our money but unwilling to do what's necessary to stop us being subjected to this miserable standard of football.
 
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