LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[Burrow]

So basically we are shite because the fans shouted 'attack, attack, attack' and the media were getting on our case because we were playing dull football.

Feel free to bring any form of opinion rather than the simplest form of posting to this discussion. And if you feel like it, please answer the two questions I just recently posted.

Thanks.

 

[Godfather]

What? Now the fans are at fault? For demanding attacking football after going 3 games without scoring a goal? What the feck.

 

[Burrow]

Fans' fault! Rooney's fault! Giggs' fault! Players' fault! Media's fault!

But is it Van Gaal fault? Nah...

I'm pretty certain that you'll find more than enough posters blaming Louis, so I'm not quite sure I see the point of this post Spoony?

 

[Jazz]

Yes mate. The fans and our ex-players were agenda driven when they called us out on playing soul destroying tumescent crap. If anyone's agenda driven it appears to be you.

Whatever. Can't wait for you to get Giggs in charge. Be absolutely what is deserved.

 

[Burrow]

What? Now the fans are at fault? For demanding attacking football after going 3 games without scoring a goal? What the feck.

Yes? Do you feel that the notion is more ridiculous than say blaming the board or Ed Woodward for our form, as you've done in your previous posts?

 

[Fully Fledged]

As I really hate doing multiquotes and all that, I'm just going to ask all of you two questions:

Did the team, and the entire club, benefit from the level of toxic brought by the fans to our games?
Do you think you contribute to the solution or the problem we're currently in by attacking the club, rather than support it?

The wheels were already off we just commented on it.

 

[RedPnutz]

Some of you lot could read something negative about this club on a small note, believe it 100% and slate every single person related to the club for it. The way people tend to attack everyone affiliated with the club, management or what not is ridiculous. People are attacking Sir Bobby Charlton, Ferguson, Ed, Glazers, the manager, the players, thinking everything is wrong with the club. We're fecking spoilt, and our "fans" are getting on the verge of ridiculous for the last few months. It seems as some of you are just looking for new ways and theories to complain and attack the club simply because it suits your agenda.

This "crisis" has been self made. We kept churning out wins and results despite boring and tedious football, but as soon as the wins werent enough we started to complain. Fair enough, the match goers are by far more authorised to voice their complain than a lousy foreigner like me, but the results started going to hell when we, the fans, demanded attacking football. I'm absolute certain that most of you would take the boring wins right now, and most certainly would complain about that as well.

There is a Norwegian saying that is somewhat roughly translated to "Happiness in unhappiness" which I'm sure should be the Caf slogan these days.

Fantastic post. Now that you mentioned it, the losses did seem to coincide with LVG acceding to fans' chants of attacking football. I have no stats to back this up though.
It is never enough with some of the fans, LVG had 3 years to rebuild but some fans 'want their weekend back' or 'pay good money to see entertainment' so they want a quick fix. It is truly a thankless job, because one way or other fans will have at least one thing to moan about.

 

[Nighteyes]

Whatever. Can't wait for you to get Giggs in charge. Be absolutely what is deserved.

What?

 

[NK86]

Laugh all you want. The build up of the fans falling for the media narrative and what our ex players were doing - which was not only criticism - but an agenda based one to attack the manager at all costs started this freefall. Nobody says Lvg didn't cause his own problems - the issue is the way our ex players especially went about doing things. They could have had their say behind closed doors instead of joining in the hysteria and influencing the fans. Playing in that atmosphere is not good - I kept saying this. The more criticism, the more the confidence left them because we don't have tough bastards like Keane to pull the team through this - they are way too soft. Rooney only cares about himself, Giggs wants the job, so who is there to help the players?
Fans are influenced by the media and people they respect no matter if no one wants to admit it - they never booed a poor Moyes because Fergie said to stand by the manager, the ex players never attacked him the way they did LVG because he was Fergie's choice. And the fans went along with it for the most part. So yes, we are a part of any downfall.

It is LVG who refuses to budge from his philosophy of 'possession football' which caused our horrible form. Even now that is the case. We were just better defensively earlier and now even that has gone to toss. We have not improved in an attacking sense at all. So that influence that you talk about is not visible at all to the media or the fans.

 

[Burrow]

The wheels were already off we just commented on it.

If that is your honest take on it, then fair enough.

 

[peridigm]

I hope we're not keeping LVG or even appoint Giggs to take over until the end of the season based on trying to get Pep, unless Pep has already signed a contract. That would be madness. If he won't sign now, get Jose instead.

 

[Jazz]

What?

That's where it's heading - Giggs in charge - unless someone on our board suddenly gets some common sense. LVG will quit - and you'll have Giggs and attacking football.

 

[Godfather]

Yes? Do you feel that the notion is more ridiculous than say blaming the board or Ed Woodward for our form, as you've done in your previous posts?

I've not blamed them for our form, but certainy for the lack of action that is taken in response to this ridiculous form we are in atm. LvG should have been sacked already and Mourinho, Pep or Ancelotti appointed. We have waited too long and that's the board's fault.
The fans are entitled to vent their anger. Paying a shitload of money to watch that dross and suddenly they are at fault for our shit performances? If the manager and the players can't take some chants then they are not made for this profession. That's ridiculous. Btw we are still shit in attack. We still cannot score to save our lifes. It's just that we have started to be shit defensively as well. Nothing to do with the fans or the media. All those results were way too predictable. Many of our wins were down to luck after performing poorly. The feeling is that the results we are getting right now is exactly what the performances of this team have been like for the whole freaking season.

 

[nimic]

What?

Jazz is a real fan (TM), who blames the troubles of Manchester United on the negativity of the fans, yet clearly can't wait for the wheels to come off the bus entirely so he can gloat and say "I told you so", vindicating his sense of superiority.

 

[NK86]

100% agree that fans are to blame for the level toxicity - Unsatisfied fans gave the press an angle to create division.

But what is it which caused the fans to be dissatisfied? I think if you answer that question honestly then it all comes down to one person only.

 

[Godfather]

100% agree that fans are to blame for the level toxicity - Unsatisfied fans gave the press an angle to create division.

The fans react. They are usually not the centre of the problem that causes the havoc.

 

[Fully Fledged]

If that is your honest take on it, then fair enough.

Yeah we were dire on October had a good spell of 3 games back to back at the beginning of November then just lost it again. By the end of November you could see what was happening. DDG was stopping us form losing matches turning potential loses into draws that was not going to last for ever.
I'm not saying that we didn't play better defensively than we are now but we were still giving teams the chances to win most of the matches we drew.

 

[Nighteyes]

Jazz is a real fan (TM), who blames the troubles of Manchester United on the negativity of the fans, yet clearly can't wait for the wheels to come off the bus entirely so he can gloat and say "I told you so", vindicating his sense of superiority.

 

[Jazz]

It is LVG who refuses to budge from his philosophy of 'possession football' which caused our horrible form. Even now that is the case. We were just better defensively earlier and now even that has gone to toss. We have not improved in an attacking sense at all. So that influence that you talk about is not visible at all to the media or the fans.

But I didn't have a problem with us being solid - I felt the attack would have been sorted out. Now we're no longer solid. Everything's now gone to shit. We should have been more patient at least and stop putting pressure on the manager and players to get our attack going. If LVG was being shit about it then things should have been said and sorted behind the scenes. That's the point - put all your dirty bits out in public and things get out of control. NOBODY is absolving LVG - only saying other matters have contributed to the mess.

 

[NK86]

As I really hate doing multiquotes and all that, I'm just going to ask all of you two questions:

Did the team, and the entire club, benefit from the level of toxic brought by the fans to our games?
Do you think you contribute to the solution or the problem we're currently in by attacking the club, rather than support it?

The level of toxic! Fans shouting for their players to attack is toxic now? What next? Fans shouting 'shoot' when a player is near the penalty box will be used as a cause for players failing to score and performing miserably?
What contribution would you want from fans? They have been very, very patient (at least the match going fans) and the ones here on the caf don't affect LVG at the slightest. You think when we gloated about our wins, the media was heaping praises on our team and SAF? They were still calling it the worst United team they have witnessed but the players had a man like Sir Alex at the helm who knew how to manage them and get them to play as a team who do not know when they are beaten. Loot at us now. As soon as we concede a goal, the whole team looks like they have given up. That all starts from right at the top - from the manager.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes? Do you feel that the notion is more ridiculous than say blaming the board or Ed Woodward for our form, as you've done in your previous posts?

I understand your point but you are wrong, while the fans aren't helping with the attack chants, our problem has always been the lack of quality in our attacking play. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who thought that our attack was wank last season and that it was the priority this summer.
Personally I expected to see us in a crisis at some point, I expected to see our draws become loses and our tight wins, draws.
We were always going to pay the absence of synergy in that team.

 

[Mickeza]

Yes? Do you feel that the notion is more ridiculous than say blaming the board or Ed Woodward for our form, as you've done in your previous posts?

Call me deluded, but I do feel the man responsible for hiring LVG and who plays a big part in shaping both transfer policy and direction the club is going maybe more to blame than a few people shouting attack...

Incidentally, he also directs the media message coming out of the club, so if you think fans are spoilt to expect a few home goals and wins now and again following a 250m outlay, then maybe blame the man who continually repeats the fact we're the biggest club on the planet and can sign anyone we want. That probably increases the expectation and adds to the "pressure" LVG is blaming this run of defeats on.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

If LVG is lacking confidence in his ability to turn it around then surely the players must be too? Makes no sense whatsoever to allow him to continue. I'd have let Giggs take the reigns before appointing a new manager before the Swansea game. Who knows? we may win today, but all things considering it's bloody doubtful, isn't it? It's a worry though, that it's all gone to pot so quickly.

From what I have read, he said there is no artificial way to restore confidence, it is winning that restores confidence. As usual this is being blown all out of proportion and has been interpreted by the media as he is lost, lack of confidence in his own ability, one paper even saying he is slating the players, asked to leave because he is clueless and so on.

It is not rocket science, you lose a number of games on the trot, players who can't handle it make nervous mistakes, team starts carrying more players, other team senses the panic and goes for the throat causing more panic. We need a few of the senior players to step up and be counted. I hope he brings back Schmidfield, and move Young to the front line. Maybe even drop Jones who has been instrumental is causing panic. Need to get back to basics where the team plays as a team.

 

[Godfather]

As I really hate doing multiquotes and all that, I'm just going to ask all of you two questions:

Did the team, and the entire club, benefit from the level of toxic brought by the fans to our games?
Do you think you contribute to the solution or the problem we're currently in by attacking the club, rather than support it?

If LvG gets the sack alonside Giggs then yes, it is to our benefit. As much as it was to our benefit that the fans finally turned on Moyes.

 

[Nighteyes]

That's where it's heading - Giggs in charge - unless someone on our board suddenly gets some common sense. LVG will quit - and you'll have Giggs and attacking football.

What does that have anything to do with fans and ex-players being solely responsible for the demise of Manchester United? Or are you one those who believes the elaborate conspiracy theories wherein Giggs is playing the real life version of Game of Thrones?

 

[RedPnutz]

Laugh all you want. The build up of the fans falling for the media narrative and what our ex players were doing - which was not only criticism - but an agenda based one to attack the manager at all costs started this freefall. Nobody says Lvg didn't cause his own problems - the issue is the way our ex players especially went about doing things. They could have had their say behind closed doors instead of joining in the hysteria and influencing the fans. Playing in that atmosphere is not good - I kept saying this. The more criticism, the more the confidence left them because we don't have tough bastards like Keane to pull the team through this - they are way too soft. Rooney only cares about himself, Giggs wants the job, so who is there to help the players?
Fans are influenced by the media and people they respect no matter if no one wants to admit it - they never booed a poor Moyes because Fergie said to stand by the manager, the ex players never attacked him the way they did LVG because he was Fergie's choice. And the fans went along with it for the most part. So yes, we are a part of any downfall.

It's funny that the fans seem to think that players are like robots or should never be affected by sentiment or should just be able to buckle down and perform because they are paid six- seven-figure salaries.

It is of course true that the football was boring and there was much to improve on. I don't think anyone disputes that many things could be done better.

But there was so much brouhaha and negativity that it has become a wave that is sweeping across the club. You are right, we used to have guys like Bruce, Keane, Cantona and even Sir Alex himself was an immovable rock. But it is no longer the case, there is no player in our club that swaggers like Cantona even when chips are down, and no player like Keane who single-handedly refuses to lose. The club dynamic is very difficult, and Sir Alex's words to "get behind our manager" have long been forgotten.

 

[Jazz]

What does that have anything to do with fans and ex-players being solely responsible for the demise of Manchester United? Or are you one those who believes the elaborate conspiracy theories wherein Giggs is playing the real life version of Game of Thrones?

Listen - I did not say the fans or whoever are the sole cause of any problems - I am saying we all have contributed to it!

 

[RedPnutz]

Yes mate. The fans and our ex-players were agenda driven when they called us out on playing soul destroying tumescent crap. If anyone's agenda driven it appears to be you.

Seems no one can have a debate or discussion these days, without the word 'agenda' being leveled as an accusation. Whatever happened to the days where people just had different opinions?

 

[NK86]

But I didn't have a problem with us being solid - I felt the attack would have been sorted out. Now we're no longer solid. Everything's now gone to shit. We should have been more patient at least and stop putting pressure on the manager and players to get our attack going. If LVG was being shit about it then things should have been said and sorted behind the scenes. That's the point - put all your dirty bits out in public and things get out of control. NOBODY is absolving LVG - only saying other matters have contributed to the mess.

Did you even read my comment? I said we have not improved our attack but our defense has gone to toss. How is that caused by fans shouting for a better style of football? If we had been scoring 3 every game only to concede 4, then your point would have made a lot of sense but that is not the case.

As for sorting it out behind the scenes, the media can write all they want but the final call always lies with the manager. What cost us our place in the last 16 in the CL was the dull 0-0 draw at home against PSV. That was not because we changed our style of play but because LVG refused to budge. That is still the case but with his use of Fellaini and just dropping of MS has compounded our defensive struggles. So LVG has not adjusted or changed because of the fans or media. He has stuck to his guns and we are seeing the results of that right now.

 

[Burrow]

I've not blamed them for our form, but certainy for the lack of action that is taken in response to this ridiculous form we are in atm. LvG should have been sacked already and Mourinho, Pep or Ancelotti appointed. We have waited too long and that's the board's fault.
The fans are entitled to vent their anger. Paying a shitload of money to watch that dross and suddenly they are at fault for our shit performances? If the manager and the players can't take some chants then they are not made for this profession. That's ridiculous. Btw we are still shit in attack. We still cannot score to save our lifes. It's just that we have started to be shit defensively as well. Nothing to do with the fans or the media. All those results were way too predictable. Many of our wins were down to luck after performing poorly. The feeling is that the results we are getting right now is exactly what the performances of this team have been like for the whole freaking season.

See, I dont think we disagree with too much.

In terms of Van Gaal getting sacked, I'd rather see a United-manager get a chance to fix the downfall rather be just another club that thinks replacing a manager is the only solution. I have absolutely no idea how the process of hiring a manager works, neither if any of Mou, Pep or Ancelotti has been available mid-season, nor the clubs criteria for appointing a manager. If you do, then I'll take your word for it.

I agree about fans being entitled for vent their anger and of course they should feel free to do. I'm merely questioning the benefit of it, as it seems to be a rather selfish choice to create such a toxic atmosphere of which I've never ever seen at Old Trafford in my short time supporting the club. I disagree with the part about the managers/players not being influenced by the chants though, as this is more or less the main point when players talk about games. The players are quick to aknowledge the fans and their support when we're on a high, so why should it be any different when the fans are booing and jeering rather than chanting and cheering? Again, the match goers are more entitled than me to voice their opinion, I simply dont see the benefit of it.

I also agree that we're shit in attack, and recently in defence as well. However, the draws started to turn into losses after the fans demanded more attack and we've clearly abandoned much of our defensive solidity after Van Gaal and the players have tried to play a more attacking game. It's hard to argue that we've not been more attacking lately, we're simply not good enough at the moment. I would also argue that our draws/losses is down to atleast the same amount of luck/bad luck as our wins.

 

[Jazz]

Jazz is a real fan (TM), who blames the troubles of Manchester United on the negativity of the fans, yet clearly can't wait for the wheels to come off the bus entirely so he can gloat and say "I told you so", vindicating his sense of superiority.

If you're going to deliberate misrepresent what I'm trying to say then don't bother answering or commenting on my posts - simple.

 

[SteveJ]

"And in the next episode of Civil War on the Caf: end times, dogs and cats living together, Plech's prophecies, and UFOs with banners over Old Trafford."

 

[sammsky1]

But what is it which caused the fans to be dissatisfied? I think if you answer that question honestly then it all comes down to one person only.

It was a massive over reaction to the actual problems.

if you think about that honestly agree you'll agree

 

[Jazz]

It's funny that the fans seem to think that players are like robots or should never be affected by sentiment or should just be able to buckle down and perform because they are paid six- seven-figure salaries.

It is of course true that the football was boring and there was much to improve on. I don't think anyone disputes that many things could be done better.

But there was so much brouhaha and negativity that it has become a wave that is sweeping across the club. You are right, we used to have guys like Bruce, Keane, Cantona and even Sir Alex himself was an immovable rock. But it is no longer the case, there is no player in our club that swaggers like Cantona even when chips are down, and no player like Keane who single-handedly refuses to lose. The club dynamic is very difficult, and Sir Alex's words to "get behind our manager" have long been forgotten.

Thanks.
You're one of the only ones not trying to misrepresent what I'm trying to say nor bully me because I have a different opinion.

 

[UnitedinRed]

My question is, how do they get rid of a manager they dislike? They sure as hell will not perform up to standards. But i get it, it's a little complicated for you.

I think its a little too complicated for you.

Its a sad day when a fan defends player power. One of the biggest problems in the gane. Very sad indeed.

Do you employ this attitude in the real world? Or do you just believe ot applies in the fantasy world of football?

 

[sammsky1]

The fans react. They are usually not the centre of the problem that causes the havoc.

The root cause of the toxicity right now is the massive OVER reaction from our fans.

We have only just come out of top 4 and wiretap of table just 5 weeks ago. Even when we were top of the table, 50% of fans on here were whinging and complaining, giving the press enough space to build tension and pressure for no need whatsoever.

That has now worked itself into our dressing room and into the minds of the players.

 

[ravi2]

100% agree that fans are to blame for the level toxicity - Unsatisfied fans gave the press an angle to create division.

I think the dull uninspired football is the reason for the start of the toxicity, when we started continuously losing that's when the shit really hit the fan.

The fans aren't the fault here.

 

[Godfather]

See, I dont think we disagree with too much.

In terms of Van Gaal getting sacked, I'd rather see a United-manager get a chance to fix the downfall rather be just another club that thinks replacing a manager is the only solution. I have absolutely no idea how the process of hiring a manager works, neither if any of Mou, Pep or Ancelotti has been available mid-season, nor the clubs criteria for appointing a manager. If you do, then I'll take your word for it.

I agree about fans being entitled for vent their anger and of course they should feel free to do. I'm merely questioning the benefit of it, as it seems to be a rather selfish choice to create such a toxic atmosphere of which I've never ever seen at Old Trafford in my short time supporting the club. I disagree with the part about the managers/players not being influenced by the chants though, as this is more or less the main point when players talk about games. The players are quick to aknowledge the fans and their support when we're on a high, so why should it be any different when the fans are booing and jeering rather than chanting and cheering? Again, the match goers are more entitled than me to voice their opinion, I simply dont see the benefit of it.

I also agree that we're shit in attack, and recently in defence as well. However, the draws started to turn into losses after the fans demanded more attack and we've clearly abandoned much of our defensive solidity after Van Gaal and the players have tried to play a more attacking game. It's hard to argue that we've not been more attacking lately, we're simply not good enough at the moment. I would also argue that our draws/losses is down to atleast the same amount of luck/bad luck as our wins.

The problems at the back started with all those injuries we have atm. Rojo is three times the full back Blind is. Blind is a better CB then Jones. Young is not a defender full stop. Darmian has gone to shit or has been injured. Valencia is injured. Those are the things that crippled us at the back. With Schweinsteiger out and LvG's idiotic idea to field a Carrick-Fellaini midfield our defence gets zero pretection as well. Those are the things that are killing us. Not the fans or their chants.

 

[Member 5225]

In fact feck it, knowing us, LVG will come out post-match and might say 'this isn't good enough, I have tried my best and the fans deserve more, I'm handing in my resignation to the club'

And we'll come out tomorrow and say we've emphatically denied his resignation and he's the right man to take us forward or something.....

Oh my days - this is happening!!!!!

 

[ravi2]

I think its a little too complicated for you.

Its a sad day when a fan defends player power. One of the biggest problems in the gane. Very sad indeed.

Do you employ this attitude in the real world? Or do you just believe ot applies in the fantasy world of football?

In any job I worked at, if everyone is complaining about the style of a certain manager, or he isn't getting the desired results he will be under scrutiny. It works the same here.

 

[Jazz]

I think the dull uninspired football is the reason for the start of the toxicity, when we started continuously losing that's when the shit really hit the fan.

The fans aren't the fault here.

But they had the same uninspired dull football under Moyes - so why did he not face the same level of toxicity? Seriously, why is that? Is it because he's British?