LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[LeChuck]

There seems to be a distinct lack of strategy or forward planning with LvG, which is surprising as I thought he was pretty meticulous.

• Even though Varela and C B-J played well, going into our biggest game of the season with 2 young debutants screams of poor squad management. Even accounting for injuries, why not start Young as a LB? I mean, he's played there before, he's comfortable there, he's been in training with the squad playing there. How much training with the first team have Varela and C B-J done with the 1st team? To throw them in like that is poor. And they were decent but they weren't great (not really blaming them).
• We have Herrera, Schneidi missing due to injury, and Carrick who is half fit. Why not play Blind as a CM and put McNair as a CB? This is a must win game, and Blind as a holding midfielder would have served us well. Instead, he opted for Schweini (B2B), and Felli (AM) as our CMs. It's really poor strategy, and naivity. Or even play a half fit Carrick and sub him off for McNair and bring Blind on once he tires. There's so many more viable options, which LvG is too pigheaded to take.
• The subs: Powell on for Mata. Enough has been said about this, so I won't delve into it too much, but I'm still dumbfounded.

I'm not quite LvG out, btw, but I'm close to it.

 

[Henk de Rode]

If things deteriorate I don't see how you could keep him on. Hoping for the better but we might as well start looking around for a replacement. At the very least, it will provide a breath of fresh air for the team.
We should also evaluate the rest of 'his staff' though. It's getting difficult to predict the line up with all these injuries. Same bs all over again.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Our PL position seems to be his saving grace at the moment but if this wasn't the worst PL season for quality in the top 6-7 teams in living memory then I reckon we'd be 7-10 points off top.

This sums up the situation perfectly. If anyone actually wanted to win the league this year we would be miles off the top spot.

With our injury crisis if we drop points in as little as 2 games we can be back to 7th, and given our form its not that much of a stretch.

 

[Minimalist]

"What's happening boss?"

"The final lines of every story ever written...The fecking end."

He has to walk at the end of the season. Either by push (sacking) or his own accord (resign/early retirement).

Up until the last couple months I've truly backed him. However last season when defending him against onslaughts of negativity, I continually stated, "I don't mind the style of play, it's not critical provided we get top four by the end...and then next season I'll judge him more harshly on this."

Well I'm not going back on that. By going out of the CL at the group stages, in what was a genuinely easy group, he's failed this season already by Manchester United's high standards and it's not even halfway through the season.

• Average performance and style of play is still not good enough. Many factors for this but plenty down to him.
• Transfer policy is (while ambitious and ruthless) lacking wisdom for a man of his experience. Letting RVP go I think is looking silly (given Hernandez left as well, Wilson hasn't got many chances and aside from Martial no other strikers came in).
• His media discourse has begun to make him look as silly as Rodgers in his final days. Odd remarks and insulting statements to the supporters.
• Rooney's complete immunity to criticism (without even considering the continual place in the first XI) is just sickening to anyone who is capable of objective thinking.

He's cooked. I expect he'll get to the end of the season purely because we are unlikely to act mid-season.

 

[caid]

Cant say i buy it was an easy CL group.
It was very manageable and we should have qualified but it wasn't easy.

 

[K2K]

I keep seeing people mentioning the 250m. What the feck did we bought with that? Was someone else available and wanted to come and we didn't buy him? A Neymar? A Suarez?
Obviously, the ones who came and were available are not good enough. Would any of you rather play the young guns? He did that in the end and probably it was a signal for the Woody.

Is not like i support the man, but apart Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp and maybe Ancelotti i don't see anyone else above LVG. And they are all taken atm.

The Neymar thing has just reached a level of ridiculous now.

You do know that Barca purchased Neymar as a supposedly overhyped Brazillian that would flop and developed him to what he became. Thats something we've always done in the past.

This nonsense about signing Neymar and Suarez level players is beyond ridiculous as an excuse. Neither Sir Alex or Sir Matt ever had the luxury of signing a top 5 best player in the world either. Neither did Van Gaal at previous succesful stints at Ajax, Bayern or Barca(his first). His failure here cannot be justified either by that, seeing as club like Wolfsburg actually had to SELL that caliber of player in the summer. PSV too had to sell their two best players. The lack of logical thinking is beyond baffling.

 

[NinjaFletch]

There is such thing as striking a balance between the two and I can't think of a more shit example one could use to justify their point, as last night was entirely about the result. It was possibly the most important game of the LVG era so far, considering it's his second season here.

Agreed, but absolutely none of the complaining prior to last night was about results, rather, performances. And the most vociferous complainers said on multiple occasions 'I don't care about the results I want to be entertained'.

Last night was (for all the wrong reasons for us) a thrilling football match, and now suddenly results do matter.

I have no problem with people being unhappy that we went of the Champions League, and I don't really have any problem with people not being entertained by our football. But trying to argue that last night should in anyway be related to that trend is wrong.

If we'd played like that against PSV at home we'd be going though, similarly if we'd stuck to the 'philosophy' last night we'd probably be going through, too. That's what i was most annoyed about last night, the abandonment of the process.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

True, but they can still influence the Glazers' decisions. If the share price drops significantly there will definitely be a reaction.

They don't pay a dividend either. If hedge funds are dumping the shares, it's because they're not likely to increase in value...but since they're scarcely better than a novelty purchase it's not particularly relevant.

 

[JPRouve]

Cant say i buy it was an easy CL group.
It was very manageable and we should have qualified but it wasn't easy.

If you have the level of the CL, it was an easy group, the other "easy" groups were:

Lyon------- Chelsea---------- Atletico Madrid
Valencia---- Porto------------ Benfica
Zenit-------Maccabi Haifa---- Galatasaray
Gent------ -Dinamo Kiev-------Astana

 

[ghagua]

Okay, for those wanting him out here is a question.
You have seen our squad/players.
Consider our team, man for man and compare them with the top teams in our league and in Europe.

We are currently in joint 3rd. Do you honestly believe that another manager can do better with the players we have?

For me, our players (5 players excepted) are below average and getting top 3 with those players is a good achievement which most managers would struggle to do.
If had a Galactico striker I'd have put us as favourites, for the league so we are not as far away, from the league title as some may think.

Who's responsible for that? He's had 3 transfer window with significant funds. You're making it seem like someone else is responsible for that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Wait, so did he have little choice or was it down to him?

LVG seemingly can't even get credit for giving youth a chance here.

If we didn't have so many injuries and if he had strengthened the squad properly there is no way we would be seeing all these kids. Some maybe, but most of them have never been suggested as potential first teams.

 

[Lay]

I'd sack him. Bring in Carlo to sort shit out.

 

[Massive Spanner]

If we didn't have so many injuries and if he had strengthened the squad properly there is no way we would be seeing all these kids. Some maybe, but most of them have never been suggested as potential first teams.

LvG didn't strengthen the squad further because his policy is to use youth as backup. Claiming we only used them because we were forced to due to injuries and a small squad is silly given that's exactly what his plan was.

 

[Question234]

"What's happening boss?"

"The final lines of every story ever written...The fecking end."

He has to walk at the end of the season. Either by push (sacking) or his own accord (resign/early retirement).

Up until the last couple months I've truly backed him. However last season when defending him against onslaughts of negativity, I continually stated, "I don't mind the style of play, it's not critical provided we get top four by the end...and then next season I'll judge him more harshly on this."

Well I'm not going back on that. By going out of the CL at the group stages, in what was a genuinely easy group, he's failed this season already by Manchester United's high standards and it's not even halfway through the season.

• Average performance and style of play is still not good enough. Many factors for this but plenty down to him.
• Transfer policy is (while ambitious and ruthless) lacking wisdom for a man of his experience. Letting RVP go I think is looking silly (given Hernandez left as well, Wilson hasn't got many chances and aside from Martial no other strikers came in).
• His media discourse has begun to make him look as silly as Rodgers in his final days. Odd remarks and insulting statements to the supporters.
• Rooney's complete immunity to criticism (without even considering the continual place in the first XI) is just sickening to anyone who is capable of objective thinking.

He's cooked. I expect he'll get to the end of the season purely because we are unlikely to act mid-season.

Transfer policy is fine, blame him for not replacing the deadwood fully. Don't blame him for selling players that fans were happy to see walk out, so much revisionism going on here.

LVG told rvp that he wouldn't be first choice, it was then that rvp decided to leave.

Had we had rvp up top week in/week out and it not worked out fans would of moaned and accused him of favouritism. ust like fans did last season when he continued to play a "woeful" rvp instead of the club captain, rooney who had allll the goals in him if given a run of games up top

 

[Stretford End Phil]

If we didn't have so many injuries and if he had strengthened the squad properly there is no way we would be seeing all these kids. Some maybe, but most of them have never been suggested as potential first teams.

Yes, spot on. Last night was an act of desperation playing kids in a devastated squad. To play lads with no real first experience was plainly unrealistic as it proved. Can't blame the lads only the manager.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If you have the level of the CL, it was an easy group, the other "easy" groups were:

-Lyon------- Chelsea---------- Atletico Madrid
-Valencia---- Porto------------ Benfica
-Zenit-------Maccabi Haifa---- Galatasaray
-Gent------ -Dinamo Kiev-------Astana

Thats the thing, if you had offered me a choice of groups beforehand, (with us being pot 2) - the only group I'd have taken over ours was the Lyon group.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If we didn't have so many injuries and if he had strengthened the squad properly there is no way we would be seeing all these kids. Some maybe, but most of them have never been suggested as potential first teams.

LvG didn't strengthen the squad further because his policy is to use youth as backup. Claiming we only used them because we were forced to due to injuries and a small squad is silly given that's exactly what his plan was.

Exactly.

 

[Minimalist]

Transfer policy is fine, blame him for not replacing the deadwood fully. Don't blame him for selling players that fans were happy to see walk out, so much revisionism going on here.

LVG told rvp that he wouldn't be first choice, it was then that rvp decided to leave.

Had we had rvp up top week in/week out and it not worked out fans would of moaned and accused him of favouritism, just like fans did last season when he continued to play a "woeful" rvp

You're being very picky here let's be fair. The bigger point is a lack of strikers whether it's RVP or not. Certainly not a point to roll your eyes to.

I pick RVP simply because last season he rescued us more than once despite not playing well. In the current situation we find ourselves in, that would be great to have.

 

[bpet15]

I am struggling to get to one side of the fence with LVG. I like the fact that we achieved top 4 last year and that seems to be well within our grasp again this season, from a points standpoint, not a performance standpoint. For that, I appreciate the job he has done.

However, nothing about the man say Manchester United Football Club to me. We are a club chalk full of tradition and I can't see how a manager that has bounced around is the right fit for us. We are not like other clubs and I have no desire to become Chelsea or any of the other big clubs with a constant manager carousel. If the Board thinks we need some time to rebuild and integrate a new manager and players, then come out and say it. If the message "we are going to do this the MUFC way, but all supporters need to realize that this will take a couple of years, so we ask for your patience" was delivered, then I think I could live with that. Get in a young manager that will be around for a long time. Someone that bleeds MUFC and understands the rich history and the significance the club plays all across the world. Who is this manager? I am not sure, but we have had some great football minds make there way through our club.

I am off the fence...LVG out!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

LvG didn't strengthen the squad further because his policy is to use youth as backup. Claiming we only used them because we were forced to due to injuries and a small squad is silly given that's exactly what his plan was.

I love seeing the kids, but I hope when they have bad games they aren't written off. That seems to happen. Januzaj as the next best thing, then he wasn't putting the effort him, now everyone says we should have kept him. Wilson is brilliant, then he is injury prone rubbish, now we shouldn't have got rid of him. Paddy McNair can be good then he has an absolute stinker. Yes it's good for them to get a chance, but I hope people aren't expecting them to propel us right up the table. Because they are kids they will be inconsistant.

 

[Pexbo]

If we didn't have so many injuries and if he had strengthened the squad properly there is no way we would be seeing all these kids. Some maybe, but most of them have never been suggested as potential first teams.

Correct. That was a decision that was made by him and his staff over the summer. There is no way they didn't foresee injuries and fatigue playing a part at some point so it was always the intention to throw these guys into the pool and see how well they swim.

There is literally zero point in having an academy if you are not going to make use of it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Correct. That was a decision that was made by him and his staff over the summer. There is no way they didn't foresee injuries and fatigue playing a part at some point so it was always the intention to throw these guys into the pool and see how well they swim.

There is literally zero point in having an academy if you are not going to make use of it.

I hope these kids are good swimmers or we will sink.

 

[caid]

Thats the thing, if you had offered me a choice of groups beforehand, (with us being pot 2) - the only group I'd have taken over ours was the Lyon group.

Yeah its true,
There is no easy groups in the CL these days really.
Or maybe there never was and we're just weak enough for it to be relevant now.

 

[Question234]

You're being very picky here let's be fair. The bigger point is a lack of strikers whether it's RVP or not. Certainly not a point to roll your eyes to.

I pick RVP simply because last season he rescued us more than once despite not playing well. In the current situation we find ourselves in, that would be great to have.

No I'm not

Everyone who went deserved to go, only exception to the rule was Hernandez. Even then the crime wasn't selling him, it was failing to replace him with a forward who would suit our system much more. Both gigs and LVG said that Wilson and januzaj need week in week out games. That's why Wilson wasn't given ago, lvg didn't think he was ready. Do not confuse me with someone who defends LVG hopelessly, mistakes have been made but there is an ironic sense to all of this.

LVG's biggest mistake was not bringing in an experienced forward and defender. The club made strong attempts to sign both ramos and 1 of muller/neymar/bale and perez even mentioned that we tried for benzema. The mindset was to secure WC talent for those positions and if faced with failure, look towards youth or current options instead of just settling for second best. (an approach that, at the time MANY utd fans were happy to see the club take)

That very same approach is backfiring, doesn't mean his transfer strategy is as shite as people on here love to make out. Shit all over the manager if you want, his in-game management can be woeful at times but people are way to quick to knife the squad and suggest that 250 mil has been wasted. We still have a good squad when fit with good room to grow, that was nowhere near our best team last night.

 

[Smores]

Correct. That was a decision that was made by him and his staff over the summer. There is no way they didn't foresee injuries and fatigue playing a part at some point so it was always the intention to throw these guys into the pool and see how well they swim.

There is literally zero point in having an academy if you are not going to make use of it.

That's also a ridiculous way to bring them through. They should be slowly brought into the team rather than forced to suddenly perform in crucial games because a senior player got injured.

 

[Question234]

Correct. That was a decision that was made by him and his staff over the summer. There is no way they didn't foresee injuries and fatigue playing a part at some point so it was always the intention to throw these guys into the pool and see how well they swim.

There is literally zero point in having an academy if you are not going to make use of it.

Yep, not sure why people forget this.

I was freaking out saying we needed a ST and a CB but was humbled by many, reminded by many on the caf about the values of promoting youth but now we're in December and all that doesn't matter anymore.

It's only ever been about winning for us, simple as. Fans can't handle a gritty rebuild because things get messy and then they call for the next manager to come in at the first signs of trouble (yes people were even lvgout in his first season)

This is what I meant when I said we need a ST, where were the goals ever going to come from ? Also said it would be lack of goals, not blind, that would finish him when the entire place lost their shit and him starting as a CB. look at us now, Bind has actually proven decent at the back.

Yes rebuilds take time and are ugly that is why you have to make it seem as smooth as possible and that happens with goals and bare minimum requirements being met, LVG methods have brought us to a very sticky situation but this was foreseeable.

 

[Pexbo]

That's also a ridiculous way to bring them through. They should be slowly brought into the team rather than forced to suddenly perform in crucial games because a senior player got injured.

Tell that to Fergie.

 

[Minimalist]

No I'm not

LVG's biggest mistake was not bringing in an experienced forward and defender. The club made strong attempts to sign both ramos and 1 of muller/neymar/bale and perez even mentioned that we tried for benzema. The mindset was to secure WC talent for those positions and if faced with failure, look towards youth or current options instead of just settling for second best. (an approach that, at the time MANY utd fans were happy to see the club take)

That very same approach is backfiring, doesn't mean his transfer strategy is as shite as people on here love to make out. Shit all over the manager if you want, his in-game management can be woeful at times but people are way to quick to knife the squad and suggest that 250 mil has been wasted. We still have a good squad when fit with good room to grow, that was nowhere near our best team last night.

You're stretching the truth there. Many, including myself, were unhappy with heading into the season with only Wayne Rooney as a senior striker. A player, who last season (and previous seasons let's be real) has looked like he was on the decline. Certainly Rooney was no better than RVP last season and I would be baffled by anyone trying to argue that.

So many of us were concerned about the striker position and the playing staff we had for that. Plenty of folks however reassured us doubters that Rooney could still do the business and that allowing him to be the 'main man' would be great (just like in 2009/10). It was hard to kick up a fuss about it until a ball was kicked (or fumbled into touch - in Rooney's case).

I was impressed in a lot of ways by our apparent desire to sign real top tier talent for positions. I really was. However, when you don't get them, you have to have a back-up plan so that you can still come close to achieving your aims. Van Gaal has already crashed out of two competitions that we shouldn't have and therefore he failed to adequately prepare.

Depending on youth to fill up the squad numbers? I'm completely behind that. But when you pick your horse (for the first XI), you had best be damn sure that player is likely to A) play well consistently and B) not get injured. Well Rooney hasn't got injured much but his performances have been dire. Leaving him as the only recognised striker is poor management. Martial could have easily struggled early on (and to be fair, has struggled a bit since his initial explosion) so you can't argue that his signing was enough (especially given he's been played on the left as well). This of course is ignoring Van Gaal's reluctance to drop Rooney and give Wilson a chance (assuming he sees Martial as a left sided player when Rooney is fit).

 

[Lentwood]

Chelsea's First XI + Subs vs. Bournemouth cost £277m... and they won the league last year.

Granted they're doing shit this year, but everyones been banging on about that stat at the moment, so yeah.

Yeah true, but I would argue that they have spent a hell of a lot to get to those 23 players, so many expensive flops along the way

I think I saw a stat the other day which was that Chelsea have spent a £1BN in transfer fees alone since Abrahamovic came in, and I think that is crucial - because whilst City, Arsenal and Chelsea have all been spending for a decade we went through that ridiculous "there is no value in this market" spell under SAF which I think is coming back to haunt us now.

Over a 5 year period we had the same net spend as Villa and Stoke, and whilst I hate using net to excuse expenditure it's worth mentioning here because Ferguson allowed world class players to leave (Ronaldo) and replaced them with bargain basement options (Young)

I think before van Gaal came in we had started to lose sight of what a Manchester Utd player was, and we were missing out on the very best players and bringing in players who were very average at best

 

[bpet15]

No I'm not

Everyone who went deserved to go, only exception to the rule was Hernandez. Even then the crime wasn't selling him, it was failing to replace him with a forward who would suit our system much more. Both gigs and LVG said that Wilson and januzaj need week in week out games. That's why Wilson wasn't given ago, lvg didn't think he was ready. Do not confuse me with someone who defends LVG hopelessly, mistakes have been made but there is an ironic sense to all of this.

LVG's biggest mistake was not bringing in an experienced forward and defender. The club made strong attempts to sign both ramos and 1 of muller/neymar/bale and perez even mentioned that we tried for benzema. The mindset was to secure WC talent for those positions and if faced with failure, look towards youth or current options instead of just settling for second best. (an approach that, at the time MANY utd fans were happy to see the club take)

That very same approach is backfiring, doesn't mean his transfer strategy is as shite as people on here love to make out. Shit all over the manager if you want, his in-game management can be woeful at times but people are way to quick to knife the squad and suggest that 250 mil has been wasted. We still have a good squad when fit with good room to grow, that was nowhere near our best team last night.

I think you are correct on the surface but what makes anyone think that "IF" he would have brought in some of that talent they would have succeeded?

I see the complete opposite. It's not like we have League 2 talent trying to compete in the top flight. Chicharito is a full international that has scored many big goals for us, Di Maria was a top 10 talent in the world before he came here, Januzaj was one of the top teenagers in the world just 18 months ago, we could go on and on.

LVG's system or philosophy seems to be one that chokes out creativity, risks and the type of attacking football that all the supporters scream for. His biggest mistake is not changing the way he manages to suit the talent he had around him. While we might not have had the talent of Barcelona, we had players that were proven. His rigid philosophy and scare tactics have caused talented footballers to crawl up in a ball and become shadows of their former selves. Our creative players are given no freedom to create and have turned into little LVG robots.

Why does anyone think he would have treated some of the players mentioned above any differently. Or better yet, given his rigid structure and "philosophy" why does anyone think some of the top class talent would even want to play for him?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Tell that to Fergie.

Did Fergie do this often?

Also, Fergie's teams were usually packed with big personalties/leaders, who could help guide youngsters through games... we currently lack that.

The only big example I can think of is Macheda... but again, he was surrounded by other leaders in the team.

 

[Question234]

That's also a ridiculous way to bring them through. They should be slowly brought into the team rather than forced to suddenly perform in crucial games because a senior player got injured.

lmao

the class of 92 ? Rio, rooney and ronny in 2005 ? You say it like you have a better idea ??

 

[Adebesi]

I reread that All Hail The Kopites thing Plech did a while back. And the thing that jumped out at me was the bit mocking their constant reference to net spend. We do that a lot recently.

 

[Nighteyes]

Him bringing on youth players is very encouraging and I hope a couple of them can take this chance and cement themselves in the team.

The quality of football is crap though so unless we're seriously challenging for the league come May we should look at getting rid of him. No point in getting top 4 by the skin of our teeth only to crash out of the CL.

You know things are bad when it takes playing with no defensive protection to finally play some decent football.

 

[Question234]

I think you are correct on the surface but what makes anyone think that "IF" he would have brought in some of that talent they would have succeeded?

I see the complete opposite. It's not like we have League 2 talent trying to compete in the top flight. Chicharito is a full international that has scored many big goals for us, Di Maria was a top 10 talent in the world before he came here, Januzaj was one of the top teenagers in the world just 18 months ago, we could go on and on.

LVG's system or philosophy seems to be one that chokes out creativity, risks and the type of attacking football that all the supporters scream for. His biggest mistake is not changing the way he manages to suit the talent he had around him. While we might not have had the talent of Barcelona, we had players that were proven. His rigid philosophy and scare tactics have caused talented footballers to crawl up in a ball and become shadows of their former selves. Our creative players are given no freedom to create and have turned into little LVG robots.

Why does anyone think he would have treated some of the players mentioned above any differently. Or better yet, given his rigid structure and "philosophy" why does anyone think some of the top class talent would even want to play for him?

Yeah mate the philosophy is shite and makes players shite

that's why Xavi, robben, schweinsteger, muller and god knows how many others have developed into world class players under him. I'm sorry but I'm willing to go as far as he stopped playing di maria as a CM because he left us wide open and that isn't a crazy thing to do. I refute this notion that LVG destroys attacking intent in players.

It's unfair to ignore the rest of his career and come to that conclusion in 18 months.

 

[Smores]

Tell that to Fergie.

I don't think he relied on youth in that way at all. He wasn't shy of bringing them through but he also looked after them and most of the time it was games here and there. Even the exceptional talents were protected somewhat.

They certainly weren't used as a crutch for when other players got injured.

 

[Pexbo]

Did Fergie do this often?

Also, Fergie's teams were usually packed with big personalties/leaders, who could help guide youngsters through games... we currently lack that.

The only big example I can think of is Macheda... but again, he was surrounded by other leaders in the team.

We sold 3 big personalities in 95/96 and drafted in 6 youngsters from the academy.

 

[ants7]

I'm totally 50/50.

Half of me wants to wait and give LVG a chance to turn this over in to a success story. So that we could say that our patience pays off and we are indeed a decent bunch of fans who can wait and have patience.

The other half of course wants me to see the back of him in order to bring Pep or Carlo in on summer. Pains me to think that we could lose them just because we honor LVG's contract although things will not improve. I'm actually a bit embarrassed and ashamed to think like that.

Sad that we're in this situation but this too shall pass. That's just a real test for fans.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

We sold 3 big personalities in 95/96 and drafted in 6 youngsters from the academy.

No we didn't.

In 94/95:
Paul Scholes made 26 first team appearances
Gary Neville made 27
Nicky Butt made 35
David Beckham made 10
And Giggs obviously made shed loads

Phil Neville was they one who hadn't really played that much (and in turn, was the one who was used the least), but he still made his debut in 94/95... in fact, a few of the other players made their debuts for United before 94/95

 

[Fully Fledged]

Agreed, but absolutely none of the complaining prior to last night was about results, rather, performances. And the most vociferous complainers said on multiple occasions 'I don't care about the results I want to be entertained'.

Last night was (for all the wrong reasons for us) a thrilling football match, and now suddenly results do matter.

I have no problem with people being unhappy that we went of the Champions League, and I don't really have any problem with people not being entertained by our football. But trying to argue that last night should in anyway be related to that trend is wrong.

If we'd played like that against PSV at home we'd be going though, similarly if we'd stuck to the 'philosophy' last night we'd probably be going through, too. That's what i was most annoyed about last night, the abandonment of the process.

That's simply not true. Yes there are a few vocal people who have said that style is more important than results. Others myself included have highlighted the fact that we had won 3 games out of the last 9,10 and now 11 games. That is totally about results. Others have brought up that we have only scored 3 goals in the last 6 home games, you can't win matches without scoring.

I even answered the question do you want results or entertainment with either would be nice.
If you really believe losing 3-2 to a team that is 15 points off the top of the German league is a good performance then I don't know what you would call a bad one. Yes there was more excitement but it was mainly the opposition creating it. After all they scored 4 of the 5 goals.