LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[GBBQ]

Richard keys is laying into him as well, and he claims that most players aren't happy within the squad, i dislike keys but here it is anyway:



http://richardajkeys.com/richards-blog/entry/louis-hang-your-head-in-shame

Hugely disappointed in how the last couple of weeks have gone and there should be question marks over LVG but this from Keys is absolute bollocks.

 

[Rado_N]

I'm glad we've got upstanding people like you to do our talking for us


The fact you have to ask suggests its a waste of time and like many others you will change the goalposts constantly.

Honestly don't know why anyone who isnt having a paddy even bothers. However, I will play along.

To complain about the tone of his post and then immediately follow-up with this takes an almost impressive lack of self awareness.

Stopped our slump,
Made us competitive,
Addresses issues in defence and midfield,
Brought something of a fear factor back to OT, teams don't come for an easy win anymore,
Integrated several young players, continuing the real United way,
Ended the period of being whipping boys for the top PL sides.
Put Liverpool back in their place after Moyes,

Watching United isn't comparable to a bad comedy these days. It may be dull at times but dull over embarrassing and shameful any day of the week.

How does our list of results this season equate to stopping a slump? We've had, what, six 0-0 draws in 10 games?

Competitive with whom? I don't think there are many teams we'd go up against right now and have fans believing we'd win.

Addressed issues in midfield and defence? Did you see the line up last night? People keep pointing to the defence but I'm not buying it, we've been ridiculously lucky at times, West Ham should have scored 5 and don't even get me started on last night.

Fear factor at OT?! Come off it! Every team knows exactly how to get the better of us and knows they'll at least probably get a draw!

Integrated young players, OK, fine, I like seeing youngsters break through.

We're not whipping boys, if that's an achievement given the quality of the PL at the moment then OK.

The last paragraph really sums things up, the best thing you can come up with about this United is that we're not embarrassing and shameful, and to be honest that's pretty debatable considering the image of the club right now.

 

[bosnian_red]

Difficult to know what to do.
It took SAF 6 years to win the title.
I think most on here would have got rid after three years.

Sir Alex didn't have £200m to spend on new players per season and didn't take over a side that had dominated English football for years recently.

 

[Sepukku]

I keep seeing people mentioning the 250m. What the feck did we bought with that? Was someone else available and wanted to come and we didn't buy him? A Neymar? A Suarez?
Obviously, the ones who came and were available are not good enough. Would any of you rather play the young guns? He did that in the end and probably it was a signal for the Woody.

Is not like i support the man, but apart Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp and maybe Ancelotti i don't see anyone else above LVG. And they are all taken atm.

 

[Adebesi]

@JPRouve I dont think this is quite what you are getting at but in some ways Id have admired him more if he had stuck to his guns and ground out a tight, boring 1-0 win. If it had ended 0-0 he would have come under severe criticism, sure, but at least he would have had the courage of his convictions. The way we played last night he seemed to abandon everything he said he wanted from us. In that sense, yes, he butchered his own process. If he decides that is the way we need to go, that he liked the look of last night and thought we were unlucky, fair enough. But if we go back to what we were doing before, what was the point? If he didnt believe in what we did last night, why did he send us out to do it? Is he really just responding to what journalists say he should be doing? I thought he had more belief in his own system than that to be honest.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Sir Alex didn't have £200m to spend on new players per season and didn't take over a side that had dominated English football for years recently.

Also completely discounting the massive amount of change in Football that has happened since then.

 

[UnitedinRed]

To complain about the tone of his post and then immediately follow-up with this takes an almost impressive lack of self awareness.

How does our list of results this season equate to stopping a slump? We've had, what, six 0-0 draws in 10 games?

Competitive with whom? I don't think there are many teams we'd go up against right now and have fans believing we'd win.

Addressed issues in midfield and defence? Did you see the line up last night? People keep pointing to the defence but I'm not buying it, we've been ridiculously lucky at times, West Ham should have scored 5 and don't even get me started on last night.

Fear factor at OT?! Come off it! Every team knows exactly how to get the better of us and knows they'll at least probably get a draw!

Integrated young players, OK, fine, I like seeing youngsters break through.

We're not whipping boys, if that's an achievement given the quality of the PL at the moment then OK.

The last paragraph really sums things up, the best thing you can come up with about this United is that we're not embarrassing and shameful, and to be honest that's pretty debatable considering the image of the club right now.

The best thing is we are building for a future.

Which is a million miles away from the United of 2 years ago, when most ourmtside of the club had written us off permanently. We were done, has beens, old news.

Oh and Merkel shouldn't be speaking for those of us not in panic mode. Kidding ourselves? When did being rational and open minded tune into a bad thing exactly? Getting shouted down for not being a blubbering mess after every game? What the hell...

Injuries. Have you counted how many. That goes sone way in explaining the line up last night, which played well tbf.

Did you enjoy our hammering from our rivals? Or do you prefer competing or bettering them? I know which I prefer anyway.

How many times have we lost this season? How many times have we won. What could this all mean? And how does every team know how to beat us yet a large number fail to beat us. It makes no sense, could you clarify. Thanks

 

[Mutter Merkel]

It was dull and effective. Not now of course but we were going along nicely until everyone lost their shit over a few bloody draws.

You would think we had just suffered consecutive relegations.

We haven't been effective, though. We've collected 29 points from 15 games in the league. that's less than 2 points per game, and two points a game would only net you 76 points at the end of the season. Unlike last season where our form improved after an awful start (13 points from 10 games), this season we're going the other way. There are no signs we're going to enjoy even a paltry 4/5 games like we had last season when we beat Spurs, Liverpool and City with commanding performances. We've got one of the worst goal-scoring records in all the competitive European leagues, and now we've crashed out of a very weak Champions' League group. He's failed to move us on from last season at all, and it's only because the top clubs have been so inconsistent this season that we're close to the top of the league. Leicester are leading the way, for goodness sake.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Also completely discounting the massive amount of change in Football that has happened since then.

And the 20+ outgoing players. £200m to replace 20+.... Hmmmm.

 

[UnitedinRed]

We haven't been effective, though. Weve collected 29 points from 15 games in the league. that's less than 2 points per game, and two points a game would only net you 76 points at the end of the season. Unlike last season where our form improved after an awful start (13 points from 10 games), this season we're going the other way. There are no signs we're going to enjoy even a paltry 4/5 games like we had last season when we beat Spurs, Liverpool and City with commanding performances. We've got one of the worst goal-scoring record in all the competitive European leagues, and now we've crashed out of a very weak Champions' League group. He's failed to move us on from last season at all, and it's only because the top clubs have been so inconsistent this season that we're close to the top of the league. Leicester are leading the way, for goodness sake.

We were effective. We've hit a bad patch. Sone of us can handle it. Some can't.

Perhaps you should give credit to other sides too. Leicester are top which means they are ahead of all, which says something about Leicester. Unless youre so full of it you dismiss other sides as cannon fodder for us. Would be very Christian would it.

 

[JPRouve]

Difficult to know what to do.
It took SAF 6 years to win the title.
I think most on here would have got rid after three years.

Did you believed in SAF plans? And do you believe in LVG plans?

Because at the end that's where I have a problem, when LVG was announced as United manager, I said that in my opinion he wouldn't won a title but that he would help us organize the club and the roster. In january I had doubt about what he could give us after his first season and now I think that he is out of his depth. He did a good job during his first season and he is doing a bad one in the second, he lacks something I don't know what it is but there is a tool that he doesn't own and that we need if we want to be a better football club.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

And the 20+ outgoing players. £200m to replace 20+.... Hmmmm.

Did we have to get rid of 20?

 

[UnitedinRed]

Did we have to get rid of 20?

According to everyone in the summer, yes.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

To complain about the tone of his post and then immediately follow-up with this takes an almost impressive lack of self awareness.

How does our list of results this season equate to stopping a slump? We've had, what, six 0-0 draws in 10 games?

Competitive with whom? I don't think there are many teams we'd go up against right now and have fans believing we'd win.

Addressed issues in midfield and defence? Did you see the line up last night? People keep pointing to the defence but I'm not buying it, we've been ridiculously lucky at times, West Ham should have scored 5 and don't even get me started on last night.

Fear factor at OT?! Come off it! Every team knows exactly how to get the better of us and knows they'll at least probably get a draw!

Integrated young players, OK, fine, I like seeing youngsters break through.

We're not whipping boys, if that's an achievement given the quality of the PL at the moment then OK.

The last paragraph really sums things up, the best thing you can come up with about this United is that we're not embarrassing and shameful, and to be honest that's pretty debatable considering the image of the club right now.

The thing about integrating young players. There have been injuries in both of his season so has had little choice but to bring kids in. This isn't a class of '92 situation when players have been got rid of to let a special group of young players flourish. He has brought young players in because the squad size is too small. That is down to him.

 

[kps88]

I'm no fan of LVG but there certainly are parallels to when SAF was trying to rebuild the club. You could argue SAF was a one off though.

Look at the league finishes in SAF's early seasons. Finished 2nd in his first full season followed by 11th and 13th place finishes. That's an insane drop. We also spent loads more than then league winners Arsenal and Liverpool. Could have easily made the argument back then to sack him for taking a team from 2nd and turning them into a mid table side despite spending a lot of money.

Rebuilds take time and don't always mean a steady climb upwards. If the Caf was around back then the vast majority would have hated him and wanted him gone.

 

[Rado_N]

The best thing is we are building for a future.

Which is a million miles away from the United of 2 years ago, when most ourmtside of the club had written us off permanently. We were done, has beens, old news.

Oh and Merkel shouldn't be speaking for those of us not in panic mode. Kidding ourselves? When did being rational and open minded tune into a bad thing exactly? Getting shouted down for not being a blubbering mess after every game? What the hell...

Injuries. Have you counted how many. That goes sone way in explaining the line up last night, which played well tbf.

Did you enjoy our hammering from our rivals? Or do you prefer competing or bettering them? I know which I prefer anyway.

How many times have we lost this season? How many times have we won. What could this all mean? And how does every team know how to beat us yet a large number fail to beat us. It makes no sense, could you clarify. Thanks

You're doing exactly the same thing you're complaining about. Knock off the wise-ass attitude, you just come across like a child.

Yes I'm aware of our injuries, and who's fault is it that the squad is too thin?

You can't just ignore the pathetic 0-0 draws because they're not losses, when did 'not a loss' become an achievement?

I said everyone knows how to set up against us and get at least a draw, I.e. they know how to nullify us, you need evidence, see the aforementioned six 0-0 draws.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm no fan of LVG but there certainly are parallels to when SAF was trying to rebuild the club.

Look at the league finishes in SAF's early seasons. Finished 2nd in his first full season followed by 11th and 13th place finishes. That's an insane drop. We also spent loads more than then league winners Arsenal and Liverpool. Could have easily made the argument back then to sack him for taking a team from 2nd and turning them into a mid table side despite spending a lot of money.

Rebuilds take time and don't always mean a steady climb upwards. You could easily argue SAF was a one off though.

SAF was a young ambitious manager, LVG isn't. SAF was still learning, LVG thinks that he knows better.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm no fan of LVG but there certainly are parallels to when SAF was trying to rebuild the club.

Look at the league finishes in SAF's early seasons. Finished 2nd in his first full season followed by 11th and 13th place finishes. That's an insane drop. We also spent loads more than then league winners Arsenal and Liverpool. Could have easily made the argument back then to sack him for taking a team from 2nd and turning them into a mid table side despite spending a lot of money.

Rebuilds take time and don't always mean a steady climb upwards. You could easily argue SAF was a one off though.

SAF was going to be here for a long time. It took him years. LvG was only 3 years at the most. You can't complete it in that time. We panicked after Moyes and should have found a long term manager. Not someone who is likely to irritate most of his players. They can't be happy and if some decide to leave, then the rebuilding job will never be done.

 

[Mutter Merkel]

We were effective. We've hit a bad patch. Sone of us can handle it. Some can't.

Perhaps you should give credit to other sides too. Leicester are top which means they are ahead of all, which says something about Leicester. Unless youre so full of it you dismiss other sides as cannon fodder for us. Would be very Christian would it.

Oh I can handle it. The last time I laughed my way through a game of football was when Moyes was in charge. That was until last night, where I could only yelp with laughter at the lack of organisation from our manager. It's a consistent theme with us; he either sets us up to play negative football and we scratch out a draw or a 1.0 with one or two shots on target, or we go for it and leave chasms of space for the opposition (Leicester last season and Wolfsburg last night). What it tells me is that we're not just getting unlucky, and that these are not just blips on our otherwise-serene road to title contention, but these are deep systemic problems which will only be remedied by changing the man in charge.

After 18 months, Van Gaal has nowhere to hide. There are no more excuses. On the subject of Leicester, the point is obvious; they are top of the league because of how inconsistent all the usual title challengers have been. Not a single one of those clubs is averaging more than two points per game. That's pretty poor form after 15 games.

 

[LeChuck]

We were effective. We've hit a bad patch. Sone of us can handle it. Some can't.

Perhaps you should give credit to other sides too. Leicester are top which means they are ahead of all, which says something about Leicester. Unless youre so full of it you dismiss other sides as cannon fodder for us. Would be very Christian would it.

Pretty dick thing to do bringing his religious beliefs into a discussion about football.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I'm glad we've got upstanding people like you to do our talking for us


The fact you have to ask suggests its a waste of time and like many others you will change the goalposts constantly.

Honestly don't know why anyone who isnt having a paddy even bothers. However, I will play along.

Stopped our slump,
Made us competitive,
Addresses issues in defence and midfield,
Brought something of a fear factor back to OT, teams don't come for an easy win anymore,
Integrated several young players, continuing the real United way,
Ended the period of being whipping boys for the top PL sides.
Put Liverpool back in their place after Moyes,

Watching United isn't comparable to a bad comedy these days. It may be dull at times but dull over embarrassing and shameful any day of the week.

Who fears coming to Old Trafford anymore, seriously? Teams know they could take 3 points from us if they really worked for it and had a bit of luck, not like in the past where the game was already lost for them before stepping foot on the pitch.

Liverpool put themselves back in their place, has no bearing at all on LVG. Although he did get good results against them last season, That was pleasing.

 

[kps88]

SAF was going to be here for a long time. It took him years. LvG was only 3 years at the most. You can't complete it in that time. We panicked after Moyes and should have found a long term manager. Not someone who is likely to irritate most of his players. They can't be happy and if some decide to leave, then the rebuilding job will never be done.

I think long term managers like SAF no longer exist. All the top ones don't spend too long in one place. The other alternative is getting someone from a tier below but that is too risky, like we saw with Moyes. Don't think the fans would have the patience for a long term manager anyway.

 

[LeChuck]

Teams are fearful coming to OT as they are scared we might pass sideways.

 

[Barca84]

The only reason it was Rooney and Carrick and not others is that they were senior players chosen as representatives to put the point across. There will be more of these types of things happening and not all of them will be made up bollocks. A few more 0-0s and that will be the end of it imo.

What positive things have players said about him? Please do post a quick list.....

Another man with a crystal ball and a bad knee spasm.

There's been plenty of positivity coming out of the club from players and higher up alike. Most recently it was Herrera and to save me posting any lists how about you go do a bit of reading?

The club are backing him for the duration of his contract and they've let it be known there's more money for him to use too. So, like it or not, he's not going anywhere just now. Let's see where we stand in January, post window, re league position and any incomings. This league is there for the taking and changing the manager would just derail the season completely. Whatever happens review at the end of the season - I doubt there'll be many advocating change if we win the bloody thing.

Glad to hear you have the inside track on Rooney & Carrick. can you let them know via your contacts that a lot of United fans think the problem lies with supposed senior players such as themselves being a bit shite. Ta.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Fear factor at OT?! Come off it! Every team knows exactly how to get the better of us and knows they'll at least probably get a draw!

Integrated young players, OK, fine, I like seeing youngsters break through.

At Old Trafford in the league we've Won 4 and Drawn 3... some fear factor.

Also, again, I'm not sure you can say Van Gaal has "integrated young players" to his credit ... yes, he's integrated some young players pretty well... but others he's just thrown in at the deep end (which is hardly the best way to be bringing young players into the team).

 

[Massive Spanner]

Our PL position seems to be his saving grace at the moment but if this wasn't the worst PL season for quality in the top 6-7 teams in living memory then I reckon we'd be 7-10 points off top.

 

[Rado_N]

At Old Trafford in the league we've Won 4 and Drawn 3... some fear factor.

Also, again, I'm not sure you can say Van Gaal has "integrated young players" to his credit ... yes, he's integrated some young players pretty well... but others he's just thrown in at the deep end (which is hardly the best way to be bringing young players into the team).

Very true.

Our PL position seems to be his saving grace at the moment but if this wasn't the worst PL season for quality in the top 6-7 teams in living memory then I reckon we'd be 7-10 points off top.

Bingo.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I can't see it. He had a back operation in the summer too.

Didn't know that, maybe he wants to fully recover before being back on the sidelines which is understandable. Maybe he wouldn't come right now then.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Our PL position seems to be his saving grace at the moment but if this wasn't the worst PL season for quality in the top 6-7 teams in living memory then I reckon we'd be 7-10 points off top.

And after this weekend, we could easily be closer (points-wise) to 7th or 8th then 1st.

 

[Shark]

Our PL position seems to be his saving grace at the moment but if this wasn't the worst PL season for quality in the top 6-7 teams in living memory then I reckon we'd be 7-10 points off top.

Indeed. I doubt the board are as black and white as some fans are though, regarding our supposedly good league position. I'd wager that they're very concerned at how our season is shaping up after the money invested in the summer.

 

[Leftback99]

3 transfer windows on and £200m+ spent, I actually think Moyes would have us in a better position than we are now. That is how badly the last 18 months have gone for me.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Indeed. I doubt the board are as black and white as some fans are though, regarding our supposedly good league position. I'd wager that they're very concerned at how our season is shaping up after the money invested in the summer.

I've no idea what our board are thinking but if they're really rejecting Pep in favour of honouring LvG's contract and are serious about making Giggs our next manager then they're thicker than most of the fans are!

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I've no idea what our board are thinking but if they're really rejecting Pep in favour of honouring LvG's contract and are serious about making Giggs our next manager then they're thicker than most of the fans are!

If that's actually true I'd expect investors to sack the board sooner rather than later. It's only a matter of time before the club's financials begin to see a serious impact, and hedge funds are already starting to ditch United shares.

 

[Adebesi]

If that's actually true I'd expect investors to sack the board sooner rather than later. It's only a matter of time before the club's financials begin to see a serious impact, and hedge funds are already starting to ditch United shares.

Theyre non voting shares arent they? There's nought they can do (as far as I understand it.)

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The thing about integrating young players. There have been injuries in both of his season so has had little choice but to bring kids in. This isn't a class of '92 situation when players have been got rid of to let a special group of young players flourish. He has brought young players in because the squad size is too small. That is down to him.

Wait, so did he have little choice or was it down to him?

LVG seemingly can't even get credit for giving youth a chance here.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Theyre non voting shares arent they? There's nought they can do (as far as I understand it.)

True, but they can still influence the Glazers' decisions. If the share price drops significantly there will definitely be a reaction.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The thing about integrating young players. There have been injuries in both of his season so has had little choice but to bring kids in. This isn't a class of '92 situation when players have been got rid of to let a special group of young players flourish. He has brought young players in because the squad size is too small. That is down to him.

I've called LvG an incompetent idiot numerous times today but this simply isn't true - LvG's policy has always been using youth to balance the squad and replace injured players wherever he went.

 

[Barca84]

3 transfer windows on and £200m+ spent, I actually think Moyes would have us in a better position than we are now. That is how badly the last 18 months have gone for me.

But there is nothing, not a shred of evidence from his time as manager, for thinking that.

 

[Sereques]

In all honesty, what exactly is wrong with the team. It's not personnel issue anymore because I believe we have good players. What is wrong? All the games we drew/lost except arsenal, we look like we will win and suddenly it ends in defeat to 0-0. I can't explain it, same way I can't explain yesterday's game.

 

[Sereques]

3 transfer windows on and £200m+ spent, I actually think Moyes would have us in a better position than we are now. That is how badly the last 18 months have gone for me.

I doubt Moyes will know what to buy with 200M and Moyes won't clean the house which was something we desperately need at that time.