LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[NinjaZombie]

I think it's very likely that Van Gaal will not be sacked and that the plan is to have Giggs take over when he retires.

I'm beginning to think, feck it, let Giggs and his pals have the job. Bring Scholes back in. Bring Butt back in. Bring them all back and let's finally put the Class of 92 question to rest.

 

[mbb8]

I think it's very likely that Van Gaal will not be sacked and that the plan is to have Giggs take over when he retires.

I'm beginning to think, feck it, let Giggs and his pals have the job. Bring Scholes back in. Bring Butt back in. Bring them all back and let's finally put the Class of 92 question to rest.

So you want us to do what Liverpool did with Souness, Evans, and Daglish in the 90s? Feck it, indeed.

Yeah, lets just ignore the fact that the greatest modern manager in football is available and go down this rabbit hole.

Im really starting to fear the sanity of this club. Shades of scouse mentality are beginning to take firm hold. Feck that.

 

[NinjaZombie]

So you want us to do what Liverpool did with Souness, Evans, and Daglish in the 90s? Feck it, indeed.

Yeah, lets just ignore the fact that the greatest modern manager in football is available and go down this rabbit hole.

Im really starting to fear the sanity of this club. Shades of scouse mentality are beginning to take firm hold. Feck that.

Calm down. I think you misunderstand me. I'm not in control of the club. Giggs would be sacked together with Van Gaal if it was.

My post was an expression of my resignation at what a shambles things are turning out to be.

 

[mbb8]

Calm down. I think you misunderstand me. I'm not in control of the club. Giggs would be sacked together with Van Gaal if it was.

My post was an expression of my resignation at what a shambles things are turning out to be.

It's not just your post. This Giggs idea needs to be killed already. Pep is coming, Simione too if Chelsea are intent, Klopp already did, Wenger isnt leaving, and Jose might just take a job at a club on the brink of top 4 to stay in England.

Giggs isnt ready for the hell that will be EPL next year.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think it's very likely that Van Gaal will not be sacked and that the plan is to have Giggs take over when he retires.

I'm beginning to think, feck it, let Giggs and his pals have the job. Bring Scholes back in. Bring Butt back in. Bring them all back and let's finally put the Class of 92 question to rest.

This is my biggest worry. That the plan is for Giggs to take over from LVG and we're trying to see that transition through.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It's not just your post. This Giggs idea needs to be killed already. Pep is coming, Simione too if Chelsea are intent, Klopp already did, Wenger isnt leaving, and Jose might just take a job at a club on the brink of top 4 to stay in England.

Giggs isnt ready for the hell that will be EPL next year.

It needs to be killed from the club's end. Till Giggs' shadow keeps hanging over every United manager, and ex players and managers keep bigging him up for the job, fans will worry about it happening.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Calm down. I think you misunderstand me. I'm not in control of the club. Giggs would be sacked together with Van Gaal if it was.

My post was an expression of my resignation at what a shambles things are turning out to be.

In a morbid self-harming kind of way I'm down for that too. Giggs needs to move on one way of the other. Let them take over and whatever the outcome we can put this idea to rest. The club can take a couple of season down the dump to finally rid itself of the sentimentality.

 

[mbb8]

In a morbid self-harming kind of way I'm down for that too. Giggs needs to move on one way of the other. Let them take over and whatever the outcome we can put this idea to rest. The club can take a couple of season down the dump to finally rid itself of the sentimentality.

Lol. The club cant do jack shit down the dump.

This isnt Spain or Germany and we are not Real and Barca.

You lunatics need to chill. How many world class players do you see on the pitch? And that's with 300 million spent.

We already embarrassed ourselves over the Di Maria debacle and have to extremely careful or we'll be left behind in a mudtrap.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Lol. The club cant do jack shit down the dump.

This isnt Spain or Germany and we are not Real and Barca.

You lunatics need to chill. How many world class players do you see on the pitch? And that's with 300 million spent.

We already embarrassed ourselves over the Di Maria debacle and have to extremely careful or we'll be left behind in a mudtrap.

Chelsea got back after finishing 6th, they are down the dump now and will be back next season as well, we finished 7th and got CL the next season.

I'm more concerned about the sentimentality and constant circus surrounding the club nowadays than any player recruitment issue. The rot is setting in and we need to do something about it.

In an ideal world I'd like Giggs to move on to pursue his own coaching career, the club to appoint the best manager available and get the top football people in to revamp the scouting and coaching system. However, there's an agenda within and outside of club to appoint Giggs in the immediate future and I'd rather we are done with that stuff one way or another.

 

[mbb8]

Chelsea got back after finishing 6th, they are down the dump now and will be back next season as well, we finished 7th and got CL the next season.

I'm more concerned about the sentimentality and constant circus surrounding the club nowadays than any player recruitment issue. The rot is setting in and we need to do something about it.

In an ideal world I'd like Giggs to move on to pursue his own coaching career, the club to appoint the best manager available and get the top football people in to revamp the scouting and coaching system. However, there's an agenda within and outside of club to appoint Giggs in the immediate future and I'd rather we are done with that stuff one way or another.

Chelsea won the UCL the year they finished 6th and that was the reason Hazard signed.

And they won th league because Jose came back. He's won 3 of their last 4 EPL trophies and I doubt they will win another anytime soon.

City have done far better business than us amd Arsenal are now just starting to flex their financial muscle. Dark times.

 

[K2K]

Seriously, without a clear successor what do you expect, he isn't going to let his manager leave.

Every well run business has a contingency plan in the event of the worst case scenario occuring.

There doesnt seem to be any here and they appear to be simply hoping things will eventually get better somehow.

Poor planning all round, a reactive approach to crisis rather than proactive solutions. This board scares me, and not just because of this.

 

[.Rossi]

It's been almost a year since McClair left and the club still haven't appointed a head of the youth academy, nor have they actually decided what direction they want to take the youth development in......

And people here expect them to actually sort this mess out with LvG?

 

[K2K]

I think regardless of tomorrow's result, LVG is likely to stay.

With the transfer window just a few days away, its likely that the club has targets in mind (Van Gaal alluded to that a few weeks earlier) and with the speed that they seem to react in, its unlikely that they would bring a new manager in and still be able to sign his targets in such a short time frame.

We'll probably panic buy a player or three (like we did with Moyes) and hope that our form turns around.

I think it will very well cost us a UCL spot, but that does appear to be the plan now. Woodward called Van Gaal a genius just a few weeks ago, and he seems to impressed with the work he's doing. Perhaps its time for the fans to accept that too.

 

[Esquire]

It's not just your post. This Giggs idea needs to be killed already. Pep is coming, Simione too if Chelsea are intent, Klopp already did, Wenger isnt leaving, and Jose might just take a job at a club on the brink of top 4 to stay in England.

Giggs isnt ready for the hell that will be EPL next year.

And that may explain why, we are reading today, that Ed wants LVG to tough it out. That and seemingly many in the hierachy are still against Jose being brought in.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

And that may explain why, we are reading today, that Ed wants LVG to tough it out. That and seemingly many in the hierachy are still against Jose being brought in.

The problem it appears, on face value, with that, is that LVG looks more and more like a defeated man with his players looking even more defeated than him. If he turns it around it would be great but there's an air of resignation (pun unintended) and helplessness around everyone involved.

 

[Esquire]

I think regardless of tomorrow's result, LVG is likely to stay.

With the transfer window just a few days away, its likely that the club has targets in mind (Van Gaal alluded to that a few weeks earlier) and with the speed that they seem to react in, its unlikely that they would bring a new manager in and still be able to sign his targets in such a short time frame.

We'll probably panic buy a player or three (like we did with Moyes) and hope that our form turns around.

I think it will very well cost us a UCL spot, but that does appear to be the plan now. Woodward called Van Gaal a genius just a few weeks ago, and he seems to impressed with the work he's doing. Perhaps its time for the fans to accept that too.

I agree with 99% of your post. However, I am not sure fans should just accept what this particular board and Ed deem best for the club anymore. Many here argue that this debacle is not Ed or the board's fault. The gist of the argument seems to be that what more can Ed or the board do when they have done all their due diligence when hiring LVG who (they think) was the best available candiate at the time. They have also backed him to the tune of 250m in transfer fees alone in implementing his philosophy. To some extent I accept that.

What I do not accept is some of these senior people at the club are out of their depth when it comes to footballing matters but they don't seem to recognize it. When LVG asks for this and that, does the board scrutinize his requests? You must admit that LVG's transfer dealings (trimming down the squad, having only one senior striker around, etc.) invites scrutiny and criticism. The reason that LVG has been able to do this with the board's full sanction seems to be because there is a dearth of other contemporary senior football executives (definitely not SAF or Sir Bobby) who act as a check and balance against whatever LVG wants to dictate. This may be more of argument to bring in a DOF (another thread has addressed this), but on evidence which we all can see, the board and Ed now deserve to be asked serious questions of why they let LVG essentially dominate the entire structure the way he did and, more significantly, how to get us out of this stagnation, or worse, regression.

 

[R'hllor]

Cant believe some people here went to support journos... i mean really gave my best to find part where LvG said something... "is understood..."

 

[Esquire]

The problem it appears, on face value, with that, is that LVG looks more and more like a defeated man with his players looking even more defeated than him. If he turns it around it would be great but there's an air of resignation (pun unintended) and helplessness around everyone involved.

And that is why I am saying there is a huge disconnect between Ed (the board) and the reality of the situation. When a famously self-confident and proud man indicates he is ready to quit, what is the point of asking him to stay, when all the evidence points to a continuation of the malaise. Commercial success or not, it just feels the club is not being properly run by its directors.

 

[NK86]

It's been almost a year since McClair left and the club still haven't appointed a head of the youth academy, nor have they actually decided what direction they want to take the youth development in......

And people here expect them to actually sort this mess out with LvG?

That is my biggest worry. We seem rudderless. All these calls that LVG is here to build a foundation and yet here we are 18 months in without a head of the youth academy! I think we are going to do a Liverpool. All these sponsorship deals will only reduce once we stutter our way to mid-table every year.

 

[K2K]

I agree with 99% of your post. However, I am not sure fans should just accept what this particular board and Ed deem best for the club anymore. Many here argue that this debacle is not Ed or the board's fault. The gist of the argument seems to be that what more can Ed or the board do when they have done all their due diligence when hiring LVG who (they think) was the best available candiate at the time. They have also backed him to the tune of 250m in transfer fees alone in implementing his philosophy. To some extent I accept that.

What I do not accept is some of these senior people at the club are out of their depth when it comes to footballing matters but they don't seem to recognize it. When LVG asks for this and that, does the board scrutinize his requests? You must admit that LVG's transfer dealings (trimming down the squad, having only one senior striker around, etc.) invites scrutiny and criticism. The reason that LVG has been able to do this with the board's full sanction seems to be because there is a dearth of other contemporary senior football executives (definitely not SAF or Sir Bobby) who act as a check and balance against whatever LVG wants to dictate. This may be more of argument to bring in a DOF (another thread has addressed this), but on evidence which we all can see, the board and Ed now deserve to be asked serious questions of why they let LVG essentially dominate the entire structure the way he did and, more significantly, how to get us out of this stagnation, or worse, regression.

You raise very good points.

The board is ultimately responsible for their subordinate's actions . So LvG's actions and subsequent results are their responsibility, as the board is the one that has to report to investors.

The lack of scrutiny of LvG's actions especially with regards to transfers and thinning of the squad are proving to be disastrous. The great thing about his time at Bayern was that he had a filter of football man on the board that could stop from making his weird decisions. So they could gain from what LVG was good at (setting up structure) but could limit some of his weird transfer decisions.

It seems our board simply gave him free reign, and only now when things are going wrong , they are panicking.

 

[JPRouve]

Every well run business has a contingency plan in the event of the worst case scenario occuring.

There doesnt seem to be any here and they appear to be simply hoping things will eventually get better somehow.

Poor planning all round, a reactive approach to crisis rather than proactive solutions. This board scares me, and not just because of this.

That's why I said almost a month ago to go for Ancelotti and I was very lonely in the Ancelotti camp. Honestly I find it quite disgusting to see you lot act like that, a month ago almost the entire caf was dreaming about Guardiola and was advocating for the use of as much time as possible to land him. Now you see why I didn't wanted to wait for someone who might not join us while Ancelotti was available particularly since I'm not sold on Mourinho.

Now we could try Sampaoli, Laudrup, Rodgers, OGS, Giggs or Mourinho.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

I hope we do a win

 

[CircusMonkey]

Can not believe he has not gone yet, what are they waiting for?
As a game attending idiot, who had the cheek to moan 3 months ago about the dire state of the football we were playing (and was shot down for being ungrateful) I can not believe the views of some fans, especially those who feel the answer is to throw yet more millions on overpriced players, and then theres those who don't care how dire the performances are as long as we win.

This is not the united way, and for those who have claimed we have had to change to compete, well that has worked out, and as for europe, the premiership sides are dire.

Sack him.

 

[2 man midfield]

I hope we do a win

What's one of them?

 

[Adisa]

I have accepted that this club will do a Liverpool.

 

[redindian1987]

That's it guys. It's so over, lock the gates shut down the club. The manager is useless, the players are useless, the board is incompetent.

Everybody's crap. Only one thing to do: have people posting on this forum on the board and another person as manager. Surely posters in a football forum will do better than professional businessman and football coaches.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Travelling to the game today with the knowledge that a win could possibly be the worst outcome. How has it come to this?

The apparent stalling from the board is troubling, they have a) think this is suddenly get better when LVG has clearly lost the support of fans and some of the players b) have tried but failed to convince the likes of Jose, Carlo of Pep to take the job and so are left with Ryan who I think is a much bigger risk that appointing David Moyes.

 

[K2K]

That's it guys. It's so over, lock the gates shut down the club. The manager is useless, the players are useless, the board is incompetent.

Everybody's crap. Only one thing to do: have people posting on this forum on the board and another person as manager. Surely posters in a football forum will do better than professional businessman and football coaches.

An appeal to authority.

great argument. It's not like those proffesional businessman and football coaches havent messed up big time before.

 

[AltiUn]

That's it guys. It's so over, lock the gates shut down the club. The manager is useless, the players are useless, the board is incompetent.

Everybody's crap. Only one thing to do: have people posting on this forum on the board and another person as manager. Surely posters in a football forum will do better than professional businessman and football coaches.

This'd be fine and funny if we weren't in free fall with the senior folks at the club not having the balls to sack a manager who has been vastly under performing without a win in the league in a month.

 

[Kostur]

That's it guys. It's so over, lock the gates shut down the club. The manager is useless, the players are useless, the board is incompetent.

Everybody's crap. Only one thing to do: have people posting on this forum on the board and another person as manager. Surely posters in a football forum will do better than professional businessman and football coaches.

It's not about how people on the internet forum would perform, it's about, as you called them, professional business man and football coaches who are underperforming immensely. 'Shut up because you wouldn't do better' is a bit silly sort of attitude here, it's like a surgeon who just transplanted a dick to your forehead telling you that you don't know shit because he's a surgeon and you're a pleb. Something is just not right and everybody can see it.

 

[K2K]

That's why I said almost a month ago to go for Ancelotti and I was very lonely in the Ancelotti camp. Honestly I find it quite disgusting to see you lot act like that, a month ago almost the entire caf was dreaming about Guardiola and was advocating for the use of as much time as possible to land him. Now you see why I didn't wanted to wait for someone who might not join us while Ancelotti was available particularly since I'm not sold on Mourinho.

Now we could try Sampaoli, Laudrup, Rodgers, OGS, Giggs or Mourinho.

To be fair, I've been advocating that we had reached our peak under Van Gaal, and that we need a better manager to push us on. I was thinking that we should do it at the end of the season, that is why Guardiola was so appealing.

But things have gone of the rails since then,and change is needed now. I would have preferred Ancelotti too, but as he's gone...I'd rather Mourinho...whatever his weaknesses are, he is still one of the best in the business.

 

[Esquire]

Travelling to the game today with the knowledge that a win could possibly be the worst outcome. How has it come to this?

The apparent stalling from the board is troubling, they have a) think this is suddenly get better when LVG has clearly lost the support of fans and some of the players b) have tried but failed to convince the likes of Jose, Carlo of Pep to take the job and so are left with Ryan who I think is a much bigger risk that appointing David Moyes.

Hope you have a good time... whatever happens we should always aim to win.

 

[Esquire]

To be fair, I've been advocating that we had reached our peak under Van Gaal, and that we need a better manager to push us on. I was thinking that we should do it at the end of the season, that is why Guardiola was so appealing.

But things have gone of the rails since then,and change is needed now. I would have preferred Ancelotti too, but as he's gone...I'd rather Mourinho...whatever his weaknesses are, he is still one of the best in the business.

Think even a month ago we wouldn't have landed Carlo as he was well on his way to Bayern. Can't believe our club has come to this.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

What's one of them?

Think Leicester have done some this season maybe ask them?

 

[redindian1987]

This'd be fine and funny if we weren't in free fall with the senior folks at the club not having the balls to sack a manager who has been vastly under performing without a win in the league in a month.

Might be just me, but I don't think sacking a manager a day before a game is ballsy, it would be reckless. Let's just throw our preparation into disarray for the sole reason of gaining approval from fans on the internet. That's completely rational behaviour.

 

[Adisa]

That Norwegian ex player turned journalist put up an interesting theory yesterday. He says there's no real replacement for LVG yet and Woodward doesn't want to give Giggs the job. Something he'll have to do if he sacks LVG now. Says other board members will not give OK for Mourinho because they don't want him and want Giggs. So the boardroom is Woodward group vs SAF group.

 

[K2K]

It's not about how people on the internet forum would perform, it's about, as you called them, professional business man and football coaches who are underperforming immensely. 'Shut up because you wouldn't do better' is a bit silly sort of attitude here, it's like a surgeon who just transplanted a dick to your forehead telling you that you don't know shit because he's a surgeon and you're a pleb. Something is just not right and everybody can see it.

Yes, it's a nonsensical argument paddled out when someone usually doesnt really have a good one.

No one compares this 'proffesional football man or football coaches' to us as a football forum. Rather we compare them to their peers and what the reasonable expectations of what their duties should be. Poor decision making is not excused because someone with less qualifications would do a worse job than you. That's not how business works.

 

[ravi2]

Might be just me, but I don't think sacking a manager a day before a game is ballsy, it would be reckless. Let's just throw our preparation into disarray for the sole reason of gaining approval from fans on the internet. That's completely rational behaviour.

Yup... Let's just stick with LVG despite all the evidence that points otherwise. Thats rational too isn't it? /S.

 

[redindian1987]

It's not about how people on the internet forum would perform, it's about, as you called them, professional business man and football coaches who are underperforming immensely. 'Shut up because you wouldn't do better' is a bit silly sort of attitude here, it's like a surgeon who just transplanted a dick to your forehead telling you that you don't know shit because he's a surgeon and you're a pleb. Something is just not right and everybody can see it.

Here's the thing: none of us have any idea of what the board is thinking. They might be privy to something we're not which makes them think we ought to stand by the manager. Maybe they will sack the manager, maybe they haven't done so because they don't want Mourinho, which isn't that crazy. To assume that the manager is so without self-respect that he would hang onto his job despite losing the trust of his staff and the players; to think that Woody is such a psycopath that he would risk is losing value is ridiculous.

 

[redindian1987]

Yes, it's a nonsensical argument paddled out when someone usually doesnt really have a good one.

No one compares this 'proffesional football man or football coaches' to us as a football forum. Rather we compare them to their peers and what the reasonable expectations of what their duties should be. Poor decision making is not excused because someone with less qualifications would do a worse job than you. That's not how business works.

Which isn't my point. At all.