Ya, in the meantime you keep making your straw-mans. Everyone of has got a job to do.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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Ya, in the meantime you keep making your straw-mans. Everyone of has got a job to do.
Anyone who is hanging on to our league position to say that all is well at United should know that the second half of our season is tougher than the first. We play most of the tough away games in the second half. Our away form under Van Gaal would mean that we are going to struggle to keep hold of our league position.
January signings is mandatory, as well as looking for better manager to replace Van Gaal in the summer.
January signings is mandatory, as well as looking for better manager to replace Van Gaal in the summer.
This is an over-optimistic take on what LVG is doing IMO. Look, I do think that laying foundations is important. However, results and success cannot be ignored. Not to mention quality of football. As of now, especially in the last category LVG is being found wanting. And he needs to deliver on that. Any manager does. Simply signing a few kids and bringing a change in style isn't enough.
I think things will get very interesting if we lose the next few matches. I am generally concerned that the poor form, confidence and injuries have gotten too much and could ruin this season.
With such a young squad and an inexperienced assistant manager Van Gaal is going to have to work really hard to turn the confidence around. Even the senior players he does have aren't really equipped to be leaders and rally the troops IMO. Rooney is in awful form and in self preservation mode, Carrick is gradually being phased out, and Schweinsteiger is being criticised by LvG and worried about his own form.
He's surrounded himself with a thin squad - in terms of numbers and leadership, he has fans annoyed and the media circling. A bad run will see us reach crisis point. The next few weeks are massive.
With such a young squad and an inexperienced assistant manager Van Gaal is going to have to work really hard to turn the confidence around. Even the senior players he does have aren't really equipped to be leaders and rally the troops IMO. Rooney is in awful form and in self preservation mode, Carrick is gradually being phased out, and Schweinsteiger is being criticised by LvG and worried about his own form.
He's surrounded himself with a thin squad - in terms of numbers and leadership, he has fans annoyed and the media circling. A bad run will see us reach crisis point. The next few weeks are massive.
I'm not even close to wanting him sacked yet. End of the season is the time to judge, as always.
I don't think you get what that even means unless you're criticizing yourself now which is probably the natural evolution.Think you may be in for a shock.
18 months is more than enough time for fans to come a judgement.
Come on let's be sensible now, if van Gaal is doing a bad job then what in the name of Christ are Pellegrini, Wenger and Mourinho doing? All have had money and time to build their squads over a period of several years and yet there are still obvious deficiencies and we are matching (or bettering) those sides at the moment. But if you want me to list them;
1) Absolute shite out, good young players in
2) Got us back into the CL
3) Didnt finish 7th
4) Now look competitive in every game at least, which is something you could not say two years ago
I usually don't waste my time on you as I don't have enough of it to deal with your straw man's. My bad that I replied to your post.Neither do I have time to find posts which are arguing what a good job he is doing laying foundations and how he has challenging for the league.
Oh you have loads of time. You spend all your time here whining. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone with "not enough time" would do.
Neither do I have time to find posts which are arguing what a good job he is doing laying foundations and how he has challenging for the league. You do it, you seem to have enough of it.
Btw, for future reference, the strawman argument happened when you said this:
LVG has so far been disappointing. No doubt about it.
Ah the old 'well our rivals are doing shit, so it's okay if we are doing shit too' reasoning. Literally the stupidest logic in the world.
If your house was on fire would you look at your neighbours house and think 'ah it's okay, theirs is on fire too'?
Surely that can't be the objective 1.5 years after Moyes?
"Looking competitive in every game" is something Bournemouth should aspire to.
I don't spend all my time here, but whenever I come here, I do spend it on expressing my anguish on how bad things have been. I don't come here for winning arguments or gaining false victories. I don't need a forum to feel better about myself. If you want to discuss this issue further, let's take it to private messages. May be we can help each other.I didn't. Like I said, you only need to look around to find posts which say how good a job he has done getting rid of "deadwood", laying foundations and having us challenging for the league; which is all total and utter bullshit.
Biggest myth of the LVG era for me but each to their own.
Calling not coming 7th an improvement is scraping the barrel really as you can use both tenures to highlight deficiencies in the other . (Moyes came 7th, LVG 4th, Moyes QF, LVG out in group stages etc.)
I'm not entirely sold on Ancelotti as the right fit for Utd. Good manager but just not completely convinced he's right for us.
LVG is here till the end of the season and most likely next season too. People shouldn't underestimate that LVG was Woodwards man - he isn't going to fold on this yet. How the club can contemplate letting Pep go to a rival without putting up a fight is utterly negligent.
LVG is here till the end of the season and most likely next season too. People shouldn't underestimate that LVG was Woodwards man - he isn't going to fold on this yet. How the club can contemplate letting Pep go to a rival without putting up a fight is utterly negligent.
and that is literally the stupidest analogy in the world.
I get your point around being short in areas, but I'm not quite sure how you get there and what evidence there is to support it.
- You point out the average age of our defenders but don't actually give it. Off the top of my head taking out Valencia and Young, the average of those listed is 23? The average age of the strikers you've listed is also about 23 so really age doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.
- On the subject of strikers you've pointed out a "measly number" as compared to last season and have gone on to name more players? After which you've pointed out that they wont gel in a season because they're not Falcao...?
- Midfield is our oldest area but arguably its where you need the experience - you don't get many midfielders who hit their peak at say an average of 23 such as our defence/attack - pogba being the only one who springs to mind. You've said Van Gaal bought 1 of those you listed when he actually bought 3. In terms of last night, the two most versatile of those listed were both out injured and it showed as we had to play the least versatile (Fellaini) in an unnatural position. Also, isn't "Schneiderling" some kind of cider?
- "The only gaps we have left are for players that can make a difference in positions that do make a difference." This just plain confused me.
I think people are aware that money will be spent but don't feel like any player of great benefit to us will be able to work in this system he has. The first batch of his signings didn't exactly set the world alight and truthfully we would be nowhere this season without the continued class of de Gea and the emergence as one of the best CBs in the league by Smalling.
We can buy whoever we want but the fact is that players are being stifled by the approach we take to every game. The gaps in the squad really aren't the major problem here, its the football we are playing.
1) Januzaj,wilson. Two promising players phased out.
2) then took us out again
3 & 4 are something you would expect spurs/soton. No disrespect to them.
It's not really worth discussing. I didn't even say you spend all your time here. I have 50K posts FFS. Why would I say that to anyone?
Well yeah just because you find everything terrible it doesn't mean others can't find something good. It doesn't mean "LVG has been AWSUM". But people are allowed to say he's do some good things. Not everything has to be looked at with hate.
Taking my own case I do think he's done some things but well, but overall is this the expectation I had when he took over? feck no.
Been in a shit mood all day because of this result. We knew this was a must win and we couldn't do it against Wolfsburg. Something has got to give. Europa is a pointless competition, not happy about being in it.
Wouldn't being angry about seeing the back of van gaal now
Wouldn't being angry about seeing the back of van gaal now
It probably is, but it's the same logic. If it's going shit for someone else, then it's okay for it to be going shit for you?
Van Gaal shouldn't be defended on the basis of Wenger/Mourinho/Whoever doing a bad job too. He should be judged solely on what he's doing.
There's a wee paradox with that statement you replied to who said "LvG is doing what SAF did - leaving behind a youthful squad"...because I thought the quality of the squad SAF left behind wasn't exactly "great"? this would be corroborated by so many being sold. We practically have an entire new squad, barring a couple of senior citizens, a GK and 1 or 2 defenders, iirc.
If you're going to be leaving behind a "youthful, energetic" squad, you best make sure it's got the quality to go with it (which I have no doubt Herrera, Schneiderlin, Shaw, Martial etc. does have! - but we paid through our eyeballs for most of them).
So yeah, I'd at least expect some return on investment during LvG's reign (whether that is trophies or excellent football!) after the money invested, other than "oh, I've left my successor a young squad".
The logic is stupid as well. You're right but I find it funny that people have no problem using klopp and ranieri to critisise LVG. No disagreements because LVG is underperforming.
Still my position is the same, firing him now is kneejerk and risks freefall, especially if his replacement is giggs. He's here till the summer at least.
I somewhat want him gone because he's genuinely holding the club back with his enormous ego. Like yesterday when he substituted Mata for Powell in a completely inexplicable move, he does things like that constantly to prove himself as a genius and show people that he can make unexpected choices. Football isn't about this, managers like Pep or Ancelotti will usually pick the best team available without trying to make it all about themselves like van Gaal does. He won't stop playing Rooney because he loves him and he's his best captain ever and it apparently doesn't matter how well he plays, he will dismiss Herrera for 10 games in a row for having two misplaced passes because it makes him look like a genius for not playing his best available midfielder, he will send our only right sided winger on a loan to Dortmund because it will prove that he is a genius... Stop this nonsense and get someone in who will be more about results and work than talking nonsense and desperately trying to prove themselves. First it was Moyes and his defeatist 'not my fault' attitude, now it's van Gaal with 'all about me'. Why can't we have a normal manager?
Had enough now. Get rid of this Fraud. £300 million spent and the balance of the team is still not right. when we attack we get cut apart and when we play defensive football we cannot score. Dont feel sorry for him one bit with the injuries. He chose to work with a smaller squad. Starting to sound like Liverpool fans with the 'we are 3 points off the top' statements
I do wonder if we've signed him past his prime as a manager. Let's not forget managers' have those phases as well. Fergie won plenty at the end of his career but he started caring little for fluid attacking football and the overall performance levels of his players, as long as we somehow won matches. He went from someone who throughout his career wanted fans entertained to wanting the job done at any cost. So even the arguably football's greatest had changed at the end of his career. There's an attention to detail that he possibly didn't care as much as other things. And you wonder whether we've gone for someone at the wrong end of his career in LVG even from a short-term perspective. It's possible that his implementation of ideas, judgment aren't as good as they once were.
Our best midfielder, Ander Herrera gets ignored. Hes starting to criticise BS aswell. of course he aint going to be the same dynamic player he was at Bayern. How many years ago was that? My 3 year old has a better first touch than his captain yet he never says a bad word about him
It's not really worth discussing. I didn't even say you spend all your time here. I have 50K posts FFS. Why would I say that to anyone?
I don't see any progress, amol.
He has been allowed to do whatever he wants and our defense, midfield and attack all look unsettled. Even after buying and selling so many players: do we have 4 defenders that we can confidently field in defense? Does our midfield look settled? Can we field two first choice central midfielders and say, yes this is a combination worthy of a top team? Does our attack look settled? Do we have four that we can come to an agreement on? Do we have enough goals and creativity?
Last night was one of the few times when our team had to find a balance between the attack and defense, and we looked totally inept doing that. We were hilariously bad in both departments.
Yes, he has spent a lot of money and a couple of players in Shaw and Martial look like potential world class players. What about the rest? Is it the players or the tactics? Are the rest bad or are we making them look bad? Will you be confident enough giving this man another huge transfer kitty? What is the guarantee that the next attacker we buy is not going to suffer the same fate that all our attackers have suffered so far?
To have so many unanswered questions after him being in charge for 18 months is a huge red flag for me. I think he has been terrible despite the support he has gotten from the board and the fans at this club. We are basically nowhere; we don't have a settled XI, we don't have a good enough squad, our football is insipid and boring, and we are already out of two cup competitions. I don't see any reasons to be positive.
Really daft to play Schweinsteiger as his only CM yesterday.
The treatment of Herrera really grates me. That and the Rooney thing (they're interconnected now) are my biggest gripes with LVG.
If you're using the post Fergie Moyes season as the benchmark then obviously there's improvements but we were considered to have underperformed so badly with a shite manager, how can that be the benchmark for a top coach coming in after him?
We were always going to improve with more money spent and we were always going to improve when our confidence was regained from losing Fergie.
If Moyes had stayed on and splashed the cash then top 4 would have been the minimum. After going out the CL this season he'd be in trouble again. LvG is barely matching the low expectations set against a manager who was out of his depth.
He does deserve a run at the league though but as soon as it looks like we may not get 4th he needs to be out the door. His is not a long term project anyway.
It would be idiotic to throw him out now. We're still in a good position in the League and let's see how far we go in the FA Cup. If we can hire Pep or another top quality manager for the new season we should do it though
That is a really interesting point, we have been moaning about playing 2 DM's, but that is likely as you say the reason the defence has looked so good. Only have a very immobile BFS in front of them last night did not give them the protection, it appears they still need to function properly.
I voted for his position to be evaluated at season end. I have now stopped listening to what he says. I just don't want to know anymore.
Spot on, for some reason he's been getting credit from our improved defence but it's only improved in the sense it's protected by pointless possession and two midfield enforcers, all at the cost of our attack. Take away the possession and you've got Sam Allardyce tactics.
Ancelotti also said "every one wants to manage united". So i think getting him before january. Assuring him that he wont be judged by this season, paying him enough and getting him before january so as to change the squad would sway him. It would be a P.R. dream too, with him saying i wouldnt do it for any other club.
Other Managers-
Mourinho (yes him),
Jorge jesus (Best manager in portugal, plays good football,won alot)
Pochettino
Tuchel
Sampoli
Mancini
Giggs
Frankly speaking, ancelotti will come if he is offered the job right now.
I know that. But if you hire a new manager you should at least give him the environment he wishes to work in, and not forcibly thrust him into the job using money. That's the wrong way IMO.
My take on those options:
Mourinho - can bugger off, not fit for United
Jorge Jesus - no idea
Pochettino - would be my choice as someone to consider in the summer
Tuchel - only just joined Dortmund.
Sampoli - no idea
Mancini - no way
Giggs - novice, can't believe are happy sacking LVG and Giggs taking over now.
Many folk acknowledged that the squad was lacking in some areas at the start of the season, regardless of how much we had spent, yet use the same stick to hit LvG with. We still need a lot more quality to compete. Yes, the football has been poor but we just haven't been clinical enough.
Why?
I don't want him sacked, I've defended him a few times in various threads over the past few weeks and in several threads again since last night.
However, to play devil's advocate, if the club are definitely going to 'part ways' with Louis in the summer, Pep is definitely off to City and Ancelotti would be willing to join us in January, would it not make more sense to do so sooner rather than later? To have 5 months to assess the squad, see what he's working with and head into the summer window knowing exactly what he wants?
It seems the previous summer just gone was the first since Fergie where we've not been hindered by a new manager needing time to bed in, and thus having a sub par window as a result.
However, to play devil's advocate, if the club are definitely going to 'part ways' with Louis in the summer, Pep is definitely off to City and Ancelotti would be willing to join us in January, would it not make more sense to do so sooner rather than later? To have 5 months to assess the squad, see what he's working with and head into the summer window knowing exactly what he wants?
It seems the previous summer just gone was the first since Fergie where we've not been hindered by a new manager needing time to bed in, and thus having a sub par window as a result.
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