Pep's contract expires this season.
LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
- Thread starter Livewire1974
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Then again that was only the case if you was expecting us to mount a serious CL challenge this year. We spent that shiteload of money last year just to get in to the CL; spending (i think less) as well as selling more players should have showed you that we were on a different road; a road we had to build. Getting in to the cup was all that was important. Let's not complain about not winning it on our return.
I agree with you; there is gaping holes in the first team; no idiot would put mata on the right for 2 seasons. However; he is slowly overhauling the squad in to something someone like guardiola can work with. It's sometimes shitting obvious. I posted something just a few mins ago about how we only really needed a ST, RW and 2 Cm's to have a properly organised first 11.
The only way I can see him sacked at the end of the season is if United finish 5th or lower and don't win the Europa League, thus gaining automatic entrance into next season's Champions League. I would move him on at the end of the season if United finish lower than third at least.
Aye this is realistic expectations; considering last year was all about purely top 4 anything less or similar is really disappointing.
I see a lot of the caf has reached the same conclusion as it did towards the middle of the Moyes era. Now we're just waiting for the lowest common denominator to reach that point - like Moyes this will take a while with a lot kicking, screaming and squealing involved.
And welbeck.
This squad is plenty good enough to win against top teams. With a few fewer sales it would be good enough to win the laegue and mount serious challenges in the cups.
Your stance, and probably mine afew weeks ago, reminds me of my stance on Falcao. I really thought he'd come good to his last game with us. You've already said the team isn't gelling and now we need a new striker a rw and 2 CBS... And perhaps replace our best midfield players right after. They'll have to gel too. Reminiscent of Liverpool also. Next year. Or the year after.
Clearly someone watched only the West Ham game.
There's alot of such people around. In a way it's reminiscent of the way people used to justify Rooney's poor form. Pointing to specific games whilst ignoring the majority of crap that has been served up.
Liverpool have been doing it for countless seasons though; we have been doing it for one or 2 at max. He sold Welbeck, cleverley, Rafael; though being young but rightfully not good enough.
With regards to your post, with the right expectations; this isn't even the next year. No one expected us to win the title last year; why people are disappointed in our good league position and our CL exit is what has me confused.
Why van gaal sold players like RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Falcao is because these players are easily replaceable. Maybe not right at this moment but noone talks about RVP now we have Martial. I believe that the Spine is there, not just that but also alot of the players that will make up the wider squad.
Players like lingard might not be overly good enough for the starting XI every week but he is good enough to be say what Ashley young was for SAF.
We have the spine (de gea, smalling, blind, shaw, memphis, martial) sorted for at least the next 5 years barring transfer feuds and tussles. We also have a fantastic young squad now, with Mcnair, Lingard, peireira & the boys who played today. How is this similar to Liverpool at all?
We have the money to cover this spine and squad up with the best attributed players; that's why I'v not been surprised us trying ever so hard for the likes of Neymar or Muller because in reality; that is all we need.
Basel Game. I assume you didnt watch that. What about the matches for PSV in the dutch league. I assume he didnt beat anyone there either.
Two sides of the coin.
Is this even serious? Are we going to refer to a single game in the qualifying round, a cameo against west ham where we didn't even win and a pathetic Dutch league a year ago as evidence of a great player?
That pathetic Dutch League..... we couldn't beat the Champions of that pathetic league, who sold their two best players, over 2 games
I've always wondered why we get called glory hunters...
That pathetic Dutch League..... we couldn't beat the Champions of that pathetic league, who sold their two best players, over 2 games
That's more of an indication of how poor we are. You think City/Arsenal/Chelsea and heck even Spurs/Saints would be as toothless as we were? Nope.
That pathetic Dutch League..... we couldn't beat the Champions of that pathetic league, who sold their two best players, over 2 games
and Memphis played for us, so what's that make him?
Tactically I am at a loss at what exactly LVG is trying to achieve because I don't understand the teams he puts out against different oppositions. Against the likes of West Ham and Newcastle at home he plays with two holding mids. While he plays with just one holding/deep lying mid when playing Arsenal and Wolfsburg away. What exactly goes through his mind when he makes those team selections?
Is this what world class managers are classified as these days?
Terrible man management, terrible squad management, terrible substitutions, no game plan, no tactical awareness. Nothing.
Terrible man management, terrible squad management, terrible substitutions, no game plan, no tactical awareness. Nothing.
Not unfair, but how many players 24 and under in the squad will be good enough to be in the 16-18 first squad types every great team has?
De Gea, Shaw, Martial and Memphis are the only ones that seem more likely than not and then Blind, Smalling, Mata, Schneiderlin and Herrera are not much older and are good enough if mostly only near the bottom of that list. So, we still need between 7-9 players and that's assuming De Gea stays.
That's not all Van Gaal's fault, but it's not like we're a young team with clear starters at most spots. We're about half filled and the rest is mainly nonsense.
Besides, it's not the playing of youth that's a problem. It's the fact that we just don't score enough goals to reliably breeze through the CL group stages or compete for the title. It can be done (see Madrid, Atletico) but the margin for error is so thin that it's not really a logical way for a team with United's resources to go about things.
I pretty much agree with Scholes on the average team thing. We are just an average team who could compete with some average teams.
I think Fergie could possibly win us the league, but I really dont want to go that route.
We cant repeating the same mistakes like we have done in the past. We did the same thing with Sir Matt, we need to move on.
No, getting third in this league is not the greatest feat because of the level of all the top teams playing in the PL. If we come third behind City and Arsenal, it has more to do with Chelsea's implosion than our improvement.
If Pep is available, I would sack him irrespective of where we finish this season. If Pep is unavailable, then LVG should get the boot if any of the three are not met:
1.Finish in the top 2,
2. Improve our overall play and style,
3. Win a cup.
With the amounts he has spent, if those three are not met then it is time to move him on and get a manager who knows how to get the best out of his players and improve them.
You do realize that LVG won the domestic title with those two clubs in his first two seasons and also got Bayern to the CL final as well. Then he got the boot from both the clubs in his third season. I think moving him on after this season is absolutely the right time.
Correlation does not men causation. By your logic, both got better after he was sacked and got better managers in, maybe we should do that.
He's never won the uefa/europa cup, hasnt won the fa cup in 15 years now, and not won the league in 3 years.
So I wouldnt mind that treble, thank you
He has to go. He's a total fraud of a manager, who quite frankly, seems to be losing the plot.
I dread to think what he'd do if we give him another £100 million to spend.
I dread to think what he'd do if we give him another £100 million to spend.
I would like to wait until the end of the season but potential managers for next season may require an earlier time-frame. My minimum requirement for LVG to retain his job would be a genuine title challenge. If all he can deliver is a distant 3rd or 4th place then I can't see the point of letting him continue for the final season on his contract.
Currently we have 29 points from 15 PL games. This time last season we had 28 points from 15 PL games. So we are one point better off.
In the disappointing first half of last season, packed full of injuries, red cards and penalties conceded, we picked up 36 points. In the second half of the season we managed 34 points.
We have witnessed a lot of change but only minimal improvement. I would have expected a decent manager (better than Moyes) to deliver similar results without any net transfer expenditure, never mind the huge sums LVG has spent.
Currently we have 29 points from 15 PL games. This time last season we had 28 points from 15 PL games. So we are one point better off.
In the disappointing first half of last season, packed full of injuries, red cards and penalties conceded, we picked up 36 points. In the second half of the season we managed 34 points.
We have witnessed a lot of change but only minimal improvement. I would have expected a decent manager (better than Moyes) to deliver similar results without any net transfer expenditure, never mind the huge sums LVG has spent.
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I have no doubt sacking him will unleash a tiger off the leash but that tiger is not blooded yet. Guardiola is coming here. Ideally he would sign a one year extension with bayern because the only reason this pressure is here is people don't want to lose out on their dream manager.
A man who has blooded in Xavi,iniesta , Valdes, schweinsteiger, Alaba,Muller , aswell as instilling the likes of Ribery,robben, badstuber etc is not a fluke.
Half these players attribute their success towards him rather than guaridola or heycknes. That is more than correlation.
You would just about get one player with that.
Oh no he might buy another martial blind Shaw or Memphis. :0
If we were looking for a manager to win titles we would have gone for mourinho or just about anyone apart from van gaal. His effing trophy hall is literally empty and is his weakest area of expertise.
That's all it is to some people though. Just trophies.
We could get ancelotti or guardiola be successful for 5 years maximum and then be stuck in this same position. Not a single manager has put bayern or Barcelona back to positions they were pre-van gaal because his stuff sticks from the youth ground s up.
Barcelona will still thump Madrid be that Tito,guardiola,rijkaard or Enrique. Likewise bayern, stick any Tom sick or Harry and you won't see them having a horror show ever again.
As I said, only 2 teams are actual giants. Bayern & Barcelona. What happens to the likes of Dortmund, Madrid, man city, juventus season between season is proof that most managers are only good as their contracts.
You are making no sense. So LVG is this messiah who puts the structures in place which enable any guy to come in and win trophies. Is that what you are saying? Is that the reason why LVG had Bayern outside the CL places and Heckneys got them to do a treble with a lot of the same team? Or why Pep came in years after LVG and revolutionized Barca and had them become the best club team in history?
To make a comment that LVG has not been brought here for trophies but for some other reason is bizarre at best. Obviously the club wants trophies. Why else would they try and buy the best players.
For whatever reason, it just isn't working for Van Gaal. The players don't seem to want to play for him anymore. We should get rid at the end of the season and clear out the players who aren't playing for the shirt. If you can't play for the club, regardless of who the manager is then you're not good enough for Manchester United.
Your acting like Barcelona were a rubbish team before. Rijkaard was doing fantastic with ronaldinho and ego'I and Henry. Do you not remember?
I'm sure your not idiotic enough to put all the praise on Luis Enrique eh? His treble and this Barcelona team has nothing to do with guardiola ( in your eyes) . Things get passed on. In fact I can't go a week without hearing xavi talk about van gaals influence on Barcelona.
Right now as things stand, it doesn't take a genius to manage bayern or Barcelona to the CL compared to let's say, managing Porto to the CL. However I attribute bayerns and Barcelonas lack of Reliance on managers because of what van gaal started. After he entered both clubs neither took a backward step.
Now that is a reason we would hire him: trophies or not. To make sure we are one day with the top 2 teams in the world. Teams that don't seem to have a particularly bad season. Winning trophies can be done by guardiola, ancelotti, simeone or whatever manager is the flavour of the month.
I think you need to see the team left by Guardiola compared to the team left by LVG from his Barca days. Also Rijkaard was doing well but nowhere near as good as Pep has. You putting Pep's contribution down and telling it is because of VG that he was successful with those teams is preposterous.
What is more baffling is you insinuating that we didn't hire LVG to win trophies. Why on earth are we splurging like crazy if that was not the case?
We have spent a lot on a few players while selling loads. I ask you, do you really buy martial, Memphis Shaw etc to win titles immediately.
LVG kept Barcelona selling Xavi to us and blooded in iniesta. 2 out of 3 fundamental players in guardiola's period. I'm taking nothing away from him. It's just that he is not a manager who builds teams from scratch. He manages top clubs at the top of their game to get the best out of them. Almost like a deadly finisher finishing off an assist.
It would make sense to fire LVG if a better manager were available. Giggs is not a good option, IMO.
I think he could go next month, I think we will drop out of the top four over next few weeks, it was looking likely anyway but with the injuries we now have I see us dropping a lot of points. I can see the fans really turning on him once that happens and it may prompt action, especially with Ancelotti being available.
I don't understand how anyone can think he's doing a good job. He's got the 3rd most expensive squad in Europe, most of which he put together himself, he's got us playing the worst football in the league, he's created a team that can barely score a goal, he's just got us eliminated from the group stage of the CL from piss easy group, he constantly makes awful substitutions... I really good go on.
What exactly is he doing well? Or more importantly, what is he doing or adding, that most half decent managers wouldn't be able to do? And on a fraction of the budget to?
What exactly is he doing well? Or more importantly, what is he doing or adding, that most half decent managers wouldn't be able to do? And on a fraction of the budget to?
I'm currently at "LVG stay" unless Pep becomes available. I'm not totally convinced Ancelotti is a better option for us than LVG. So leaving Pep aside, I'd wait till the summer, see whether LVG has made some serious progress with this team, and then look at options such as Ancelotti, Pochettino etc., and compare. If he makes enough progress then I'd continue with him, and let him finish his "attack" part of the rebuild.
Then our approach to squad building is flawed. We should not be relying so heavily on young players, particularly upfront.
My other problem with this whole "jam tomorrow" premise is that it fails to take into account our rivals (and, unlike Bayern and Barcelona, we are not in a different financial stratosphere to our domestic competition). The other clubs will not stand still in terms of player recruitment while Van Gaal is labouring over his masterpiece.
Fair enough, good post.
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