Nothing indicates that the current club is more structured around football side than before. That's just wishful thinking.
LVG: Man Utd is a commercial club, not like Bayern Munich.
- Thread starter Giggsyking
- Start date
Nothing indicates that the current club is more structured around football side than before. That's just wishful thinking.
I do not like LVG, but he is right we are more focused on the finanical side of things.
I think we obviously still try to do well, but lack the right people for it.
I think we obviously still try to do well, but lack the right people for it.
The whole problem stems from the fact some people are basically delusional. By that I mean they've missed the last ten years of United being totally irrelevant in the fight for any big trophy and still have the attitude of 'feck everyone that's against us'.
That was a fair approach when Fergie was dominating the league and doing well in Europe but nowadays criticism is more about us being shite than jealousy or any other perceived fault of the messenger.
It’s easy for failures to blame elsewhere….:wasn’t a problem is SAF days…..
once a decent manager is in, a decent structure defined and built then the shit goes away…..
we know the Glazers are twats but they cannot be blamed for the shitshow that is currently being served up on the pitch - thats deflecting the blame from some seriously overpaid players inability to perform at the required level……thats got f-all to do with ownership but more to do with the shower that we have recruited over the last few years
once a decent manager is in, a decent structure defined and built then the shit goes away…..
we know the Glazers are twats but they cannot be blamed for the shitshow that is currently being served up on the pitch - thats deflecting the blame from some seriously overpaid players inability to perform at the required level……thats got f-all to do with ownership but more to do with the shower that we have recruited over the last few years
It was a problem with SAF, our squad was weak when he left.
LVG explicitly stated a few years ago in an interview with BBC after being sacked that he had spoken to Fergie about this and he felt the same way
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47704834
Of course Fergie must be a bitter old sod too...
It's got everything to do with ownership. Why is it so hard to understand? The players can't perform because they were randomly recruited without a modern footballing vision by a series of mercenary managers working to a commercial orientated transfer policy with a brief only to stay in the top four.
No offence but you need to look a little deeper than random failures in character within our squad.
Last edited:
There's a director of football and a technical director which wasn't the case when LVG was here.
Honestly I wouldn't trust what LVG says. Unless Fergie says it himself, it could just be LVG talking sh!te.
United are in a complete mess on the pitch, so you would have to be very brave to think you could take that on and fix a decade of problems.
It’s good for Ten hag to hear this kind of stuff before he decides to commit 3 years to the challenge.
It’s good for Ten hag to hear this kind of stuff before he decides to commit 3 years to the challenge.
Seriously?
How have Chelsea operated over the years?
We’ve just recruited the wrong managers at the wrong times and the wrong players at the wrong times.
Owners have backed those managers
Yes we haven't had the best structure but others put in charge to run the club have failed and failure has bred failure.
Highly paid ‘world class’ players who cant be arsed and don’t care for the shirt cannot always be laid at the blame of the owners……what about some personal pride ffs?
"He must not go to Man United in case he does better than me, which wouldn't be that difficult really, all he'd need to do is keep the fans awake for 90 minutes each week."
I adjusted your post a little.
Vaan Gaal is telling it like it is.
I haven't heard of the casual scouts. You may not like the structure but at least there is one which wasn't the case in the years after Fergie.
Edit: Sorry I thought you were the original poster I was replying to.
We hired footballing people in footballing roles. I thought that's a step no?
Van Gaal has a history of falling out with people. I'll provide a few examples below.
"Having previously worked together at Barcelona, where Van Gaal was coach and Koeman his assistant, the pair linked up again in 2004 at Dutch giants Ajax. At first, the arrangement seemed clear: Koeman was manager, Van Gaal was director of football. This meant Koeman had to handle all matters connected to the first team, like any manager would, while Van Gaal had to interact with scouts and attract new players. That way, Koeman could focus on matches without having to worry about transfers." Simple, right?
"Not to Van Gaal. The now Manchester United manager has always been a bit of a control freak. And his stint as Ajax director of football was no different. Almost immediately, Van Gaal started meddling with Koeman's business and interfering with the first team. These interferences soon started to get on the managers nerves."
"As Koeman explains in his self-titled biography, at every training session Van Gaal would take a chair from his office and take a seat right next to the training pitch. There, he’d sit and judge the players Koeman was coaching. On a few occasions, the director of football would start applauding the players he liked most."
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...onald-koeman-history-dutch-beef-and-bickering
"Having previously worked together at Barcelona, where Van Gaal was coach and Koeman his assistant, the pair linked up again in 2004 at Dutch giants Ajax. At first, the arrangement seemed clear: Koeman was manager, Van Gaal was director of football. This meant Koeman had to handle all matters connected to the first team, like any manager would, while Van Gaal had to interact with scouts and attract new players. That way, Koeman could focus on matches without having to worry about transfers." Simple, right?
"Not to Van Gaal. The now Manchester United manager has always been a bit of a control freak. And his stint as Ajax director of football was no different. Almost immediately, Van Gaal started meddling with Koeman's business and interfering with the first team. These interferences soon started to get on the managers nerves."
"As Koeman explains in his self-titled biography, at every training session Van Gaal would take a chair from his office and take a seat right next to the training pitch. There, he’d sit and judge the players Koeman was coaching. On a few occasions, the director of football would start applauding the players he liked most."
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...onald-koeman-history-dutch-beef-and-bickering
Last edited:
its hard not to love this guy. Hes mentalI like the guy and have followed his career closely. But he's not someone that should be taken seriously. He's fallen out with a whole host of people in his career and even blamed Barcelona of scapegoating the foreigners at the club last year.
It's just easy right now for anyone in football to take shots at United. Until things change, it won't stop.
We might have an army of scouts, but if we aren't using them, they're not going to make much difference are they? Case in point, this January, wouldn't you have thought we would've put them to good use to save our season?
Yeah, we have really changed since LVG's time. Van Gaal is just telling it as it is.
Last edited:
Exactly. Any little story is jumped on by pundits and fans unnecessarily. We know we've had problems and are having problems but those problems have been exacerbated by managers like Van Gaal.
It's about utilising the scouts for when we want to sign players that will also be targets in the summer window, or else we will end up panick buying. No sensible club buys a player in January unless said player is also in their long term thinking.
Come on you can't seriously believe that? Zakaria went to Juve for €5m. The risk/reward was virtually non-existent. Even if he never worked out, at least we would've had an actual DM with two working legs over currently; a knackered Matic.
We had the golden opportunity to send out the message that we're not rewarding failure anymore. Instead we're planning talks to renew Rashford & Shaw. Two players who have been woefully out of form for a long time, who don't deserve their current inflated contracts.
I'm just not seeing what's meant to have really changed here.
Last edited:
BM is a successful Football Club, but there is only 1 BM in Bundesliga, who can sign ANY players from rival clubs as they fancy, at rock bottom price, with every major Germany corporation Q up for sponsorship.
Real Madrid and Barcelona pretend to be football clubs, fail commercially.
PSG, Chelsea and City, are successful football clubs, only because of sugar daddy.
I see no wrong on being good commercially. I only see problem on our scouting department, and perhaps Academy as well, who fail to come up with youngsters good on skill and tactical awareness. Football or Commercial, this is no excuse.
When LVG sign up the 2x Sch, Darmian as RB, Blind & Rojo as CB, he lost my respect as good manager. Do you mean had we given them time, they might come good eventually?
Real Madrid and Barcelona pretend to be football clubs, fail commercially.
PSG, Chelsea and City, are successful football clubs, only because of sugar daddy.
I see no wrong on being good commercially. I only see problem on our scouting department, and perhaps Academy as well, who fail to come up with youngsters good on skill and tactical awareness. Football or Commercial, this is no excuse.
When LVG sign up the 2x Sch, Darmian as RB, Blind & Rojo as CB, he lost my respect as good manager. Do you mean had we given them time, they might come good eventually?
Believe me I know Zakaria very well as a player and I followed him at Gladbach. But the thing is he wasn't just £5m was he? There was probably his wages and commission fees that also needed paying. And Zakaria is most effective in a team that sacrifices defensive stability for goals and we don't play like that. And he's not someone that is going to display a passing range, because that's not his game. And that's without mentioning his injuries and the club possibly not being convinced by him as the most defensive midfielder. So I don't want the club to sign a player who they believe won't be better than their first choice targets for the role. I would rather see the club wait and sign a player for the role in question after the relevant recruitment and data science processes have been completed. And if a player fails those processes then he shouldn't be signed.
No sensible club would back a caretaker coach in the transfer window. Because the caretaker coach in his role isn't involved in the mid to long-term planning. And Rangnick is purely a counter pressing coach, so signing players for his approach in midfield would involve bypassing the midfield in his very direct vertical approach which is different to say ten Hag who looks to implement positional play by controlling the 5 horizontal spaces in the opponents half. Which are the two wide spaces, two half spaces and the centre space. So the player Rangnick was said to have wanted, was Amadou Haidara who is a high energy box to midfielder but wouldn't necessarily be a fit in a ten Hag team as a #8.
Last edited:
I agree, it's better to wait until summer to pick up your ideal choice, as January is purely a reactive window, but I definately felt that we lost some momentum by not at least bringing one more player for Rangnick, considering most of the squad are struggling to adapt. I also would disagree with Zakaria being unsuited. We've looked the best when he's used a dm when Matić has played (i know not same type) but he can't handle more than 30 mins unfortunately. I think if Rangnick had a fit dm the team would go up another level quickly.
Wasn't it meant to be different with Rangnick though? Because Rangnick is going to be involved in at least our mid term future? Weren't we lead to believe that he was coming in to help facilitate the new managers arrival. To begin the long tactical adaptation process, & also assess the squad 6 months in advance, so the new manager doesn't have to waste a season assessing them himself?
Last edited:
To be honest with you mate I never read anything about Rangnick coming into facilitate the arrival of the new manager. All I remember reading was that he's coming in as interim manager to help us see out the season at a time when we were being beaten comfortably by even the smaller teams. It was also reported that the club have signed him up to a two year consultancy role which I assume could be connected to the consultancy firm he's setup with Lars Kornetka (link below).
https://www.rangnick-kornetka-consulting.com/en/index.html
I personally hope we don't look to set the team up in Rangnick's image because for me personally I would prefer the more technical approach to recruitment rather than the heavy metal approach of Rangnick where midfielders aren't necessarily there to enhance the build up phase but rather to win the ball back quickly and force a quick counter. Hence his teams have been built around high energy midfielders and ten Hag will do the same without the ball but he won't sacrifice the technical element on the ball for the reasons I've outlined in my previous post.
Saw also in some other places, people going full defensive about this, LvG bursting their deluded bubbles, just cant take the truth. Imagine thinking we are football club with those in charge that have completely different priorities and views, they run it like its a corportate franchise.
Edit: Our biggest transfer since SAF is that cnut from Sunday Supplement as PR
Edit: Our biggest transfer since SAF is that cnut from Sunday Supplement as PR
No one can argue with LvGs assessment of United as a commercial club. He is spot on. We all know that.
He's correct. It's up to us to show ETH why moving here is the right choice for his career. For once, I think this is positive criticism coming out of Van Gaal.
100% agree. The club execs and owners need to demonstrate that they are ready to get back to focusing on winning trophies, not making profits. Unfortunately, our owners right now will never be able to focus on winning over earning.
Many people are getting irrationally angry just because a perceived ‘failed’ United manager has just recited something you lot have personally been saying for years….unless you’re a Glazer apologist, obviously. He isn’t wrong at all.
And also, it’s not just sour grapes. Why is it that Pellegrini, Lampard or Rodgers haven’t said a negative word about their previous employers since being sacked?
And also, it’s not just sour grapes. Why is it that Pellegrini, Lampard or Rodgers haven’t said a negative word about their previous employers since being sacked?
The guy is right!! You can argue his motive (for me he is an honest football person but understand why some may think he is jealous) but You can’t argue his statement.
Look at our record post SAF, we tried all managers but nothing seems to work. So he is right, we are not a football club but a commercial club. We have structural issues and bankers making decisions. Ed Woodward doesn’t know abc of football but he was the final decision maker at the club, unbelievable.
Look at the wages we are paying to some very mediocre players, tell me anyone with half decent knowledge of football will allow that….250k for martial??? 200k for Rashford??? Come on now
Look at our record post SAF, we tried all managers but nothing seems to work. So he is right, we are not a football club but a commercial club. We have structural issues and bankers making decisions. Ed Woodward doesn’t know abc of football but he was the final decision maker at the club, unbelievable.
Look at the wages we are paying to some very mediocre players, tell me anyone with half decent knowledge of football will allow that….250k for martial??? 200k for Rashford??? Come on now
Bayern Munich is also a commercial club. You have to be stupid for thinking otherwise. Van Gaal was just taking the piss. Even Westham are a commercial club. A non commercial club is a club like Wealdstone FC.
Bayern generate over 50% of their revenue via commercial interests.
I am sure people are smart enough to understand that’s not where VG was going… Bayern have a structure and system and people with footballing knowledge to run football side of things….how they want to play and players that suits that way….not
It isn’t about how much revenue generation from commercial interests blah blah…
Just look at our wage bill, it’s the 3rd highest only behind PSG and Real Madrid…..
Madrid won’t 4 CL since 2012-13 and PsG has infinite money…..
That’s not how football club is run….. he isn’t taking a piss….. some fans who don’t agree with him are…