LVG: Man Utd is a commercial club, not like Bayern Munich.

Bondi77 said:
How was it obvious that Morgan, Depay and Darmian wouldn't work out at Utd?
Their form was good at their previous clubs and I thought we were getting good signings and was surprised they didn't work out.
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This. Everyone wanted Schnerderlin and Darmian was courted by Bayern. Memphis was who I was the most iffy about.

LVG is correct. United aren’t a football club, they’re a dinosaur club with a dinosaur approach. This isn’t the club we grew up with.
 
el3mel said:
Every time we discuss LVG, that Juanfield game came in discussion. It's as if time stops after this game. The fact that LVG fans have to recycle the same 2 or 3 games over and over again to show that his United side "dominated" big teams says it all.

Anyway, this is the Liverpool side we dominated at Juanfield.

https://www8.0zz0.com/2022/03/28/18/586962146.jpg

This Liverpool side finished 6th that year and they played full 45 minutes against us with ten men. They had Brenden Rogers as a manager and they lost 6-1 to Stoke City this year.

Next year when they hired Klopp, LVG had to park the bus to scrap a 1-0 win in a game we faced 19 shots and only had one shot on target which was Rooney's goal, then they destroyed us completely in the EL tie that year.

LVG was managing in a shit Premier League.
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The standard of the squad doesn't mean much when you factor in that, under Fergie, we faced Liverpool teams just as average as that, with a much better team ourselves, and were routinely dominated at Liverpool in terms of hardly ever being able to get out of our half.

What Louis did was a step in the right direction. He needed sacking as he couldn't take us further, but he planted a solid foundation to work from. Us tearing that up for a quick fix set us back years.
 
So is a commercial club, whatever the hell that is, supposed to stay a commercial club forever or? How does United become a football club?

Isn’t United trying to go a different direction now? Employing an ambitious manager along with structural changes?
 
Yagami said:
The standard of the squad doesn't mean much when you factor in that, under Fergie, we faced Liverpool teams just as average as that, with a much better team ourselves, and were routinely dominated at Liverpool in terms of hardly ever being able to get out of our half.

What Louis did was a step in the right direction. He needed sacking as he couldn't take us further, but he planted a solid foundation to work from. Us tearing that up for a quick fix set us back years.
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Not sure he actually did anything, let alone planting a solid foundation. I mean it was a very poor league back then, so poor that the top 3 were Leicester, Arsenal and Spurs. A decent to good manager with a decent to good squad should actually be taking advantage of such a season and winning the league. Instead we finished 5th.
Pep wasn’t in England yet, Klopp was just settling in, Conte wasn’t there yet and Mourinho just left Chelsea close to relegation places. To make LvG’s work look even worse he was already in his 2nd season with United. In his first season we weren’t even in Europe so he had enough time to implement his “philosophy“ but all we did in his 2nd season was scoring a grand total of 49 goals.
The only reason I actually still wanted him to stay was that the alternative was Jose. But that’s really it. LvG performed badly in a poor league.
 
clarkydaz said:
if we are giving out contracts without a manager to Bruno, Rashford and Shaw who have been dreadful this season then not much has actually changed.

I applaud LVG for saying it, anyone throwing shade on the Glazers is ok in my book
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the whole point of a footballing structure is to not be dependent on who the manager is, so while rashford/shaw on current form definitely don't deserve a new contract we should absolutely hand out contracts to players without the managers say so as long as they fit the profile of player for the style of football we want to implement

Bruno deserves his btw.
 
ForeverRed1 said:
But there is a reason they have success and we dont. It’s not down to luck or coincidence.
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Just because we've been incompetent for the majority of the last decade, does not mean we are not trying to be successful. Success is also not the only qualifier, whether we are football club or just a business.
 
We have to be a commercial club because we don’t have a sugar daddy owner. We were a commercial club under fergie and did pretty well.
We just need the right blueprint and hopefully the next manager can bring that.

LVG sounds bitter to me.
 
Van Gaal is full of shit.

ForeverRed1 said:
But there is a reason they have success and we dont. It’s not down to luck or coincidence.
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I disagree, coincidence plays a large part. Look at Klopp. Didn’t want to leave Dortmund, disaster of a start to the season, grows tired, announces he’s leaving at the end of the season (14/15). No top clubs in the immediate search for a new manager so he isn’t signing any contracts, Liverpool have a disaster of a start under Rodgers in the 15/16 season and sack him, hires Klopp who sees the potential of Edwards. Goes from having a dysfunctional sporting setup under Rodgers, where everyone took the piss out of their transfer committee, where the manager wanted to be in charge of everything and was constantly arguing with Edwards, to having a very well functioning setup under Klopp where Edwards is promoted to sporting director and they work together in regards to transfers. Their setup for handling transfers is suddenly a dream scenario for every top club.

People just don’t like coincidences, but it plays a rather annoyingly large part in life.
 
AdNani said:
the whole point of a footballing structure is to not be dependent on who the manager is, so while rashford/shaw on current form definitely don't deserve a new contract we should absolutely hand out contracts to players without the managers say so as long as they fit the profile of player for the style of football we want to implement

Bruno deserves his btw.
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We signed Bruno on a 5,5 year contract in jan 20, option to extend for another year. I have no idea what wages the fecker is on, probably not peanuts.
 
Says a man whose transfers have been absolutely disastrous. Every club is a commercial one. Go home LVG you're drunk and bitter.
 
Bayern have no peers in the Bundesliga. They were able to sustain their footballing POV all while developing their commercial side. They cannot afford these players or status without a very strong commercial side, which is the most valuable in their domestic league. And the attention United get from the media continues to be about clicks and engagement. If you need content, just throw shit out about Manchester United. Hated. Adored. But Never Ignored.

Bayern have such vast resources and influence on German football, they really are too big to fail in Germany. And the Bundesliga cannot afford nor allow Bayern to struggle financially or football wise. Every other club can fluctuate, but not Bayern. They have operated in a position of strength for a long time and have no real challengers, which is not the same for Manchester United and in England.

While United have an eye on the commercial side, it is imperative for them to do so because they don't have wealthy owners like City nor Newcastle. The football side has needed more structure and investment and specialization for a long time now, totally, but that too takes investment and money, which the Glazers don't have as much compared to other owners/investment groups.

LVG has some craziness to him and has been a very successful manager and influence on football across multiple countries, but his comments are pretty high level, broad strokes.
 
Lay said:
This. Everyone wanted Schnerderlin and Darmian was courted by Bayern. Memphis was who I was the most iffy about.

LVG is correct. United aren’t a football club, they’re a dinosaur club with a dinosaur approach. This isn’t the club we grew up with.
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He's a bitter old man who failed at United and holds a grudge over his sacking.
 
LVG called us a commercial club, but what would be done differently during his tenure if we were a football club by all means ?

I thought we have abided all his requests to the best extent. You can't blame Man Utd for not bringing in Muller or Hummels , who clearly not for sale or not likely to play aboard. FFS we even sold Rafael, Evans, Nani just because he did not like them and then replaced with Darmian, Blind and Depay , all flopped one way to the other.
 
Lay said:
United aren’t a football club, they’re a dinosaur club with a dinosaur approach.
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Well matched with Van Gaal then. The man did more damage than the rest of our post Fergie managers combined.
 
He's such a dickhead. You don't say it in public. Doing so is purely for his own petty gain because he can't handle how shit he was. It's disrespectful to the fans and the club that paid you millions.

Maybe hiring someone that isn't a sour dinosaur is the start of becoming 'a football club'.
 
afatzp said:
LVG called us a commercial club, but what would be done differently during his tenure if we were a football club by all means ?

I thought we have abided all his requests to the best extent. You can't blame Man Utd for not bringing in Muller or Hummels , who clearly not for sale or not likely to play aboard. FFS we even sold Rafael, Evans, Nani just because he did not like them and then replaced with Darmian, Blind and Depay , all flopped one way to the other.
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to be fair he was moaning straight away about the pre season schedule in USA saying its crazy prep for a season
 
If I was part of the united board and I’d just heard or seen LVG saying that then I’d do everything in my power to make ten Hag our manager just to spite LVG… surely ten Hag won’t listen to him though… he clearly wants the move he’s just waiting for us to offer him a contract… make it happen!!
 
VeevaVee said:
He's such a dickhead. You don't say it in public. Doing so is purely for his own petty gain because he can't handle how shit he was. It's disrespectful to the fans and the club that paid you millions.

Maybe hiring someone that isn't a sour dinosaur is the start of becoming 'a football club'.
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Speaking of sour, just minutes after Louie's sacking United appointing his sourness majesty king Jose. The club is doing this to themselves since summer 2013.

LvG and Mou speaking out is just a long term effect of United hiring them in the first place. Seems like hiring level headed Rangnick with perspective of hiring level headed Hag on top could be a lesson learned along the way in this aspect.
 
He's right of course. Any manager would be mad to come to us expecting to seriously challenge under our structure.

He was absolutely awful for us though.
 
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I think people are getting his comments wrong. What he means with commercial club is that the club is not run by people who understand football.

Having people who understand football at the head of your club is crucial to develop an overarching strategy. That’s what Bayern has: They know what kind of manager and playstyle they want. Of course not every manager is going to work out but at least managers can build upon the squad they find when starting.

At United the last managers all had fundamentally different understandings of football (Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho, Ole) and thereby a lot money is wasted.

Now depending on how much of a role Rangnick will play in rebuilding the club, that might change.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
I think everyone gets it and a good % agrees with that comment as well. But still feck LVG and his sideways passing.
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Why is half of this discussion ‘duh a club needs to make money, shocker’ then?
 
Wiesenlooser said:
Why is half of this discussion ‘duh a club needs to make money, shocker’ then?
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Because people are defensive since we all know we are shit and feel they need to defend this mythical image of the club that's currently mugging them off financially and emotionally.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Schneiderlin’s drop off confuses me to this day.
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This was when Chelsea had peak form Matic and he was the only better DM in the Premier League at the time....the poster does not know what he is talking about.
 
Wiesenlooser said:
I think people are getting his comments wrong. What he means with commercial club is that the club is not run by people who understand football.

At United the last managers all had fundamentally different understandings of football (Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho, Ole) and thereby a lot money is wasted.

Now depending on how much of a role Rangnick will play in rebuilding the club, that might change.
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I thought that too and I don't think he's wrong and much like Jose, people can't separate these manager's failures from some good points that they might make about the structure of the club or the players. You mention Ole or Jose too and it's like you're starting a war with super intense reactions on both sides. Our fans have a truly bizarre emotional reaction to managers where reason just doesn't come into it.

Setting aside his horrendous second season and the dour football he played here, i think LVG seems a top bloke and very old school guy- I can understand if he's bitter about how his time ended here though and the way the club was/is run.
 
Wiesenlooser said:
I think people are getting his comments wrong. What he means with commercial club is that the club is not run by people who understand football.

Having people who understand football at the head of your club is crucial to develop an overarching strategy. That’s what Bayern has: They know what kind of manager and playstyle they want. Of course not every manager is going to work out but at least managers can build upon the squad they find when starting.

At United the last managers all had fundamentally different understandings of football (Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho, Ole) and thereby a lot money is wasted.

Now depending on how much of a role Rangnick will play in rebuilding the club, that might change.
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It's the same Louis Van Gaal that praised the United board when he first started in his job due to him being left to his own devices, unlike at Bayern where he said he was constantly being questioned by Uli Hoeneß.

His issue regarding the commercial aspect, which he made clear during the USA preseason tour, when he said he tour, due to its commercial nature was hindering his preparation for the new season.

He was allowed complete autonomy on the football side and he not only gutted the squad and replaced some of our better players with inferior ones. He also went on to sign players like Rojo, who he said impressed him in the world Cup semi against his Dutch side in 2014. He said that in a interview with MUTV at the time we signed Rojo.

Our issue has been a simple one. We've allowed too much control to the managers post Fergie and didn't have a strong enough recruitment structure until 2018, which could question the manager. And even then the recruitment staff on the transfer committee were ignored by the board in favour of the manager signing players on the back of using their personal recruitment staff.
 
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Irwin99 said:
I thought that too and I don't think he's wrong and much like Jose, people can't separate these manager's failures from some good points that they might make about the structure of the club or the players. You mention Ole or Jose too and it's like you're starting a war with super intense reactions on both sides. Our fans have a truly bizarre emotional reaction to managers where reason just doesn't come into it.

Setting aside his horrendous second season and the dour football he played here, i think LVG seems a top bloke and very old school guy- I can understand if he's bitter about how his time ended here though and the way the club was/is run.
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The way his time ended was quite disgraceful (although the press played a role in it). So was Joses treatment of Schweinsteiger (which btw, Jose acknowledged himself).

I don’t believer, however, that Van Gaal is that bitter about it. He retired from club football a long time ago. There’s a match between the Netherlands and Germany and I assume he was just asked at the press conference. Van Gaal is known to be blunt and just openly say whatever he thinks. He also said that he thought the WC in Qatar was BS.
 
Sandikan said:
Let's see how Bayern fare if 2 or 3 oil teams take over their rivals. Meaning they can't just bully almost every other club for their best players at knock off fees.
Let's see how more than just a club and all that sh!Te they are then.
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With these morons in charge in doesn't matter. how much our competition can spend. Our board paid 80 million for Harry Maguire.
Gums said:
Disagree. If the PL had the same model as the BL, limiting control of outside investors, Utd would probably still be dominating the PL up to this day in a similar way that Bayern does. I doubt 9 or 10 in a row, but certainly every other title going our way. Any comparison between Bayern and Utd at this time is pointless. The BL model protects the status quo, the PL model uplifts anybody willing to add endless pits of money to the game. Even being managed fantastically from top to bottom would not give Utd the amount of success that Bayern has.

United‘s problems didn‘t start with mismanagement, they started with real competition. Competition, fair or not, was the only thing that was able to break the supremacy.
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No, we're massively outspending Liverpool and we've spent more than CIty (and anyone on the planet) if we only look at the past couple of years. Our problem is the board makes business decisions over football decisions. That's why we signed Ronaldo instead of the DM we desperately needed.
 
el3mel said:
Not really, no.

He's right, but he's rude to say it in public.
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It is. Granted the people within that structure may prove to be incompetent but there's people between the managers position and Woodward's position now and there wasn't before.
 
It's depressing that so many people here don't understand this basic thing about the Glazer ownership. There is a difference between profit maximisation and winning silverware. The Glazers have been doing the former and are indifferent to the latter. The reason is that nearly all the fans will continue to watch anyway for a very long time. It's what economists call inelasticity of demand. If you can sell a shit product and a good product for the same amount, you might as well sell the shit product.

The only reason they have apparently changed course is because their lack of on field success now threatens that economic model and they will only alter it to the extent they need to in order to fix the problem and finish fourth. So LvG is quite right from an objective point of view.
 
Rightnr said:
Because people are defensive since we all know we are shit and feel they need to defend this mythical image of the club that's currently mugging them off financially and emotionally.
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Been noticing quite the backlash on here whenever anyone in football offers up their honest opinions regarding the club. LVG was asked directly about the Ten Hags to United stories and he gave his take, he didn't bring it up just to bring it up.

Same thing with the latest round of Pogba related fervor and outrage over his responses to being questioned pointedly by French media about the club while he's the French NT.

It's become a shoot the messenger mentality on here because the messages themselves can't really be argued against anymore. Seems like some would prefer the peachy and rosy PR slanted answers that a lot of the players feel compelled to release whenever things get rough instead of candid ones
 
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