Luke Shaw nearer to Manchester United exit [The Times]

Craig Ward said:
I'm not disputing that's Lingard best position.

Miki was signed by jose and immediately banished from the squad, when he hit form this year, again Jose shunned him from the squad. Miki is used too sparingly by Jose for me, its clear there is an underlying issue between them, which is why Miki cant hit form, as he is often left in the cold for no good reason.

I've said in various posts, Lingard Is our in-form player. Despite him missing an open goal against Leicester and being poor on times, he's deserving to have the spot currently.

But Miki is better than anything we have at AM, just Jose opts not to use him regularly enough.
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You are contradicting yourself there, you do realise?

Mkhi is pure dogshit right now and doesn't deserve a starting spot. What Lingard has proved is that younger players can come in and take their chance.
 
Back to Shaw, I wonder if Mourinho has him in his long term plans. He’s been impressive when called upon and he’s 10 years younger than Young who admittedly has been in excellent form. If the problem is his attitude and off field behavior then any good performances won’t help him. Mourinho doesn’t indulge that kind of behavior at all.
 
Craig Ward said:
Miki was signed by jose and immediately banished from the squad, when he hit form this year, again Jose shunned him from the squad. Miki is used too sparingly by Jose for me, its clear there is an underlying issue between them, which is why Miki cant hit form, as he is often left in the cold for no good reason.

.
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He was dropped when he was in form? Did you hit your head after the first three games of the season?
 
Craig Ward said:
So missing an open goal to kill a game off is acceptable? Give over.

that was a schoolboy error and he deserves to be slated for it. A professional footballer missing an open goal
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C'mon that was a bad miss yes but he has more than earned a starting place and is out performing most players in the squad.
 
RDCR07 said:
He was dropped when he was in form? Did you hit your head after the first three games of the season?
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he was dropped when he was on form, uptil the watford game last season pundits, fans this forum and others where talking about how well he was doing after returning from injury.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
You are contradicting yourself there, you do realise?

Mkhi is pure dogshit right now and doesn't deserve a starting spot. What Lingard has proved is that younger players can come in and take their chance.
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Miki spent 7 games out of the squad, then makes a couple of sub appearances and you expect him to perform at the highest level? Jose's management on the player is shambolic.

If Miki had a run of games as our AM, he'd show his quality. Unfortunately Jose doesn't allow this.

Can everyone stop claiming Lingard is a young player? He's 25/26 I believe, he's not the Same age bracket as Rashford/Martial, he's supposed to be established by this point, but he's still a bit part player who is on a good run at the moment. Credit where credit is due, he;s playing half decent.
 
Craig Ward said:
Miki spent 7 games out of the squad, then makes a couple of sub appearances and you expect him to perform at the highest level? Jose's management on the player is shambolic.

If Miki had a run of games as our AM, he'd show his quality. Unfortunately Jose doesn't allow this.

Can everyone stop claiming Lingard is a young player? He's 25/26 I believe, he's not the Same age bracket as Rashford/Martial, he's supposed to be established by this point, but he's still a bit part player who is on a good run at the moment. Credit where credit is due, he;s playing half decent.
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No one claimed that he's a young player but he's younger than Mkhi! The point was, and it appears to go above your head, is that Lingard has been around the system before Mkhi arrived and he's never let us down whereas Mkhi has. This proves that promoting homegrown talent has its rewards.

I hope Mkhi is gone in January, he's had his opportunity. Goodbye
 
Robbie Boy said:
Eh? He was dropped after his form went to absolute shit. Even at that, he was still getting chances when he was woefully out of form.
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So when Pogba or Lukaku or Martial hit a run of poor form (which they all have), does Jose banish them from the entire squad, not the team, the SQUAD for 7/8 games?

Jose's management of Miki is atrocious. The player cant get a run of games, and when he does, its last 4/5 games and he's shunned again. Its frustrating because he is one of our better talents and we simply aren't using him.

Same with Shaw to some degree, Jose slated him last season. I am glad Shaw is proving himself now, and hope he continues to get game time.
 
Craig Ward said:
So missing an open goal to kill a game off is acceptable? Give over.

that was a schoolboy error and he deserves to be slated for it. A professional footballer missing an open goal
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Yes, at the time. But to bang on about it still after a game in which he’s just rescued us from defeat is bizarre. How long are you going to hold it against him, all season?
 
Craig Ward said:
Miki spent 7 games out of the squad, then makes a couple of sub appearances and you expect him to perform at the highest level? Jose's management on the player is shambolic.

If Miki had a run of games as our AM, he'd show his quality. Unfortunately Jose doesn't allow this.

Can everyone stop claiming Lingard is a young player? He's 25/26 I believe, he's not the Same age bracket as Rashford/Martial, he's supposed to be established by this point, but he's still a bit part player who is on a good run at the moment. Credit where credit is due, he;s playing half decent.
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What do you call the first 3 months of the season but a run of games? He certainly wasn't showing quality.

Lingard isn't supposed to be established at this point. He turned 25 a couple weeks ago. Players develop at different rates and it has always been known that Lingard is behind a couple of years in development due to his size.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
No one claimed that he's a young player but he's younger than Mkhi! The point was, and it appears to go above your head, is that Lingard has been around the system before Mkhi arrived and he's never let us down whereas Mkhi has. This proves that promoting homegrown talent has its rewards.

I hope Mkhi is gone in January, he's had his opportunity. Goodbye
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Agree, homegrown talent can work. If used correctly,

If Lingard was truly an elite player, he'd have an established role in the team by this point in his career. Fact is, he is doing well now but has, and will always be a squad option rather than a guaranteed starter.

Lets end it there as we are going round in circles a little. I'll celebrate just as any other fan when Lingard scores, but you wont ever change my opinion that Miki is a better player than Lingard.
 
Craig Ward said:
So when Pogba or Lukaku or Martial hit a run of poor form (which they all have), does Jose banish them from the entire squad, not the team, the SQUAD for 7/8 games?

Jose's management of Miki is atrocious. The player cant get a run of games, and when he does, its last 4/5 games and he's shunned again. Its frustrating because he is one of our better talents and we simply aren't using him.

Same with Shaw to some degree, Jose slated him last season. I am glad Shaw is proving himself now, and hope he continues to get game time.
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I love how people can be so certain, even when there is no proof. He hasn’t in anyway shown he’s one of our better talents, he has had pleanty of opportunities to prove himself, but has no consistency, just the occasional flash of skill. Why would the manager give him another run of games - look what Lingard and Mata have done in the past two matches. Doesn’t deserve to be in the squad.
 
golden_blunder said:
Yes, at the time. But to bang on about it still after a game in which he’s just rescued us from defeat is bizarre. How long are you going to hold it against him, all season?
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So we should only remember the good and not bemoan schoolboy errors costing us points? If it helps, I'm a little unhappy that Rashford screwed the one-on-one up as well.

I'm a fan - when errors cost the team points I vent. That's football. I celebrate when we score and hate it when we lose
 
limerickcitykid said:
What do you call the first 3 months of the season but a run of games? He certainly wasn't showing quality.

Lingard isn't supposed to be established at this point. He turned 25 a couple weeks ago. Players develop at different rates and it has always been known that Lingard is behind a couple of years in development due to his size.
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If I recall, Miki started the season by scoring and assisting at will? Or did I miss that?

Agree players develop at different rates, but at 25 there should be some level of consistency, surely? How long should we wait, until he's 30? 32? Ridiculous post. Messi, Silva, players of that build all had a bit to they're game at 25, this is when a players enters the peak years. Your mistaking 25 for 20
 
Mkhitaryan started the season fantastically then for some reason disappeared in some of the 'bigger' games (like he did last year). Personally I think his return to form (or lack thereof) will make or break our attacking play for the rest of the season. If United do not buy in January, I personally do not see another option than to give him a long run of games hoping he can be the Mkhitaryan of old.
 
Craig Ward said:
If I recall, Miki started the season by scoring and assisting at will? Or did I miss that?

Agree players develop at different rates, but at 25 there should be some level of consistency, surely? How long should we wait, until he's 30? 32? Ridiculous post. Messi, Silva, players of that build all had a bit to they're game at 25, this is when a players enters the peak years. Your mistaking 25 for 20
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You are exhibiting incredibly short term memory. Yes, Mkhi was good the first 2-3 games, but he became increasingly poor as the season progressed. Poor decision makings, unable to carry the ball forward, poor passing and dribbling. He was consistently being bad, inspite of that, Mourinho gave him many chances, until the form of Martial and Rashford allowed him to drop Mkhi.

Lingard is yet to show top drawer quality, but this season he has outperformed 28 year old Mkhi fair and square, both in terms of decision making and end product. The thing is, we need someone even better and to make room, someone needs to be moved on.
 
I can’t understand why people are so upset about this. He’s been rubbish since joining us. An absolute flop.
 
Craig Ward said:
So when Pogba or Lukaku or Martial hit a run of poor form (which they all have), does Jose banish them from the entire squad, not the team, the SQUAD for 7/8 games?

Jose's management of Miki is atrocious. The player cant get a run of games, and when he does, its last 4/5 games and he's shunned again. Its frustrating because he is one of our better talents and we simply aren't using him.

Same with Shaw to some degree, Jose slated him last season. I am glad Shaw is proving himself now, and hope he continues to get game time.
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You do know there was a disagreement between the two of them after Mkhi's performance in one of the games? When Jose said something like it was Mkhi's job to track down a player and he didnt and as a result they scored, Mkhi disagreed. Thats why he was completely banished. So drop in form coupled with that made him disappear. Martial last season was in poor form but he didnt agree and cause a scene, hence he was dropped to the bench.
 
I’m beginning to get suspicious that good old @Craig Ward is Armenian with all this Mkhitaryan arse licking.

Mkhitaryan has two months to sort himself out. Mourinho constantly played him and that didn’t work. Yes Mkhitaryan was assisting and scoring at will against the mighty Swansea and West Ham. Two of the worst teams in the division. He’s done nothing since September.

Also you seem to be going on about Lingard missing that open goal but funny enough forgetting the moment where Mkhitaryan was put through against Leicester and squared it to nobody rather than shooting.
 
Bojan11 said:
I’m beginning to get suspicious that good old @Craig Ward is Armenian with all this Mkhitaryan arse licking.

Mkhitaryan has two months to sort himself out. Mourinho constantly played him and that didn’t work. Yes Mkhitaryan was assisting and scoring at will against the mighty Swansea and West Ham. Two of the worst teams in the division. He’s done nothing since September.

Also you seem to be going on about Lingard missing that open goal but funny enough forgetting the moment where Mkhitaryan was put through against Leicester and squared it to nobody rather than shooting.
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Fear not fool, I'm not Armenian.

And recognising we have a good player on our hands that our manager doesn't trust is hardly arse licking., Its called an opinion.

I wish we signed griezmann as well, but we didn't. I think griezmann is a good player, does that mean I'm licking griezmanns arse and must be French now?

I've also mentioned Rashfords one-on-one for example, i'll highlight the good and bad from any of our players.

I've never said Miki is flawless, my point is he is the better player and hasn't been treated right by our manager. I've said numerous times Lingard is our form player, my argument isn't about form, its about ability. I strongly believe Miki is our best attacking midfielder, and I think he should be played there ahead of Mata and Lingard, Lingard has come in and done well, fair play to him
 
Craig Ward said:
Fear not fool, I'm not Armenian.

And recognising we have a good player on our hands that our manager doesn't trust is hardly arse licking., Its called an opinion.

I wish we signed griezmann as well, but we didn't. I think griezmann is a good player, does that mean I'm licking griezmanns arse and must be French now?

I've also mentioned Rashfords one-on-one for example, i'll highlight the good and bad from any of our players.

I've never said Miki is flawless, my point is he is the better player and hasn't been treated right by our manager. I've said numerous times Lingard is our form player, my argument isn't about form, its about ability. I strongly believe Miki is our best attacking midfielder, and I think he should be played there ahead of Mata and Lingard, Lingard has come in and done well, fair play to him
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Erm he certainly hasn’t proved it in the last 3 months.

Hasn’t been treated right by the manager? The same manager who constantly played him when he was in shite form. He was rightfully dropped. The only thing Jose made a mistake in was not dropping him soon enough.
 
Jaybomb said:
Memphis Depay was sold and he had lots of potential.
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Memphis never showed half as much as Shaw did when they both had a similar run in the team. Outside of a few top EL performances, Memphis didn't give us much hope to cling to.

That said, Shaw has to be nearing the end too. Happy to give him a run to see if it clicks but surely this is/was the last chance.
 
The issue with having players like Shaw in the squad, is the vicious circle we end up in.
Shaw plays 3-4 games approaching January and looks pretty good. We opt not to pursue a new LB. Shaw gets injured or his form collapses end of January. We're left playing Blind and Darmian at LB on a rotational basis. Summer rolls around; Shaw is fully fit again, looks good in pre-season. We opt to show faith in his potential.....

You can see where I'm going here. Anderson was a good example of this actually. We are nowhere near ruthless enough with some of our players and end up holding onto them while they barely contribute anything and impressive upgrades end up signing for other clubs.
 
Shaw hasn't put a foot wrong since he started getting back into the fold, IMO. No player is going to be flawless but he's done more than enough to show his worth. Views to the contrary seem to be based on stereotype or what people would have said before he started getting game time again, such as questioning whether he can defend (the definition of a 'someone else said it, so I'll repeat it' argument if every I heard one)
 
Craig Ward said:
Miki spent 7 games out of the squad, then makes a couple of sub appearances and you expect him to perform at the highest level? Jose's management on the player is shambolic.

If Miki had a run of games as our AM, he'd show his quality. Unfortunately Jose doesn't allow this.

Can everyone stop claiming Lingard is a young player? He's 25/26 I believe, he's not the Same age bracket as Rashford/Martial, he's supposed to be established by this point, but he's still a bit part player who is on a good run at the moment. Credit where credit is due, he;s playing half decent.
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Miki had a run at the start of the season then he started to stink the place up, he should be on his way soon.
 
Oscie said:
Shaw hasn't put a foot wrong since he started getting back into the fold, IMO. No player is going to be flawless but he's done more than enough to show his worth. Views to the contrary seem to be based on stereotype or what people would have said before he started getting game time again, such as questioning whether he can defend (the definition of a 'someone else said it, so I'll repeat it' argument if every I heard one)
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He's been here three and a half years though out of a five year contract and he's still not established despite being on £100k a week.
 
Let him go IMO. If you want to be a top team these days you have to have great fullbacks and he is not and hasn't shown it apart from a 8 game run 2 years ago.
 
Hawks2008 said:
Let him go IMO. If you want to be a top team these days you have to have great fullbacks and he is not and hasn't shown it apart from a 8 game run 2 years ago.
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Being a top team has nothing to do with letting go young and talented players in positions you desperately need reinforcements.
 
Kostov said:
Being a top team has nothing to do with letting go young and talented players in positions you desperately need reinforcements.
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That might ring true but what if said player has constantly disappointed and/or just doesn't look like he has it in him to fulfill his potential?
 
NinjaZombie said:
That might ring true but what if said player has constantly disappointed and/or just doesn't look like he has it in him to fulfill his potential?
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Well none of that applies to Shaw I'm afraid. Even more so if you take in consideration his turn in fortunes the last couple of games, two of which he was voted Man od the match.
 
Kostov said:
Being a top team has nothing to do with letting go young and talented players in positions you desperately need reinforcements.
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The reason we desperately need reinforcements at left back is because our options in that position are poor including Shaw.
 
Hawks2008 said:
The reason we desperately need reinforcements at left back is because our options in that position are poor including Shaw.
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He's clearly a more than capable to compete with whomever we could bring in, or would you rather put your faith in Blind, or Young who'll be 32 next year? Besides, Shaw has never been consistantly poor for us since he's been here. Why would we throw him out now when he's just getting back into it? We could and should go for Sandro or the likes because we need that competition, but if we simultaneously get rid of the back-up Sandro can always do a Filipe Luis, and then we're in the exact same position as before..
 
Shaw is a quality LB, who would flourish under a decent attacking style manager. They won't get rid of him, as Pochettino will want him as a starter when he arrives(:-
 
Hawks2008 said:
The reason we desperately need reinforcements at left back is because our options in that position are poor including Shaw.
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We have a 22 year old LB with enormous potential, who has had a rough time with injuries (one of which was very bad), unstable situation at managerial level and coupled with his personal issues. In the last 2 months he has showed why we shouldn't give up on him just yet. That notion that because we are a big club we must only be ruthless so we can go back where we belong is total rubbish.

We are in no situation to write of a talent such as Shaw in a position we lack quality, especially when we need reinforcements in 3-4 other positions. Great teams aren't just bought, they are built with patience and vision. If Shaw continues to build on his recent form we save 50m and potentially we have the best LB in the league.
 
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