Luke Shaw | Deal done! Almost...

[Dante]

I'm not saying we shouldn't pay £30m. I just think it's an insane amount for someone of his standing. Just like £200m would be insane for Messi.

Generally speaking, I'm firmly in the "pay whatever it takes" camp.

 

[#07]

I can't help but feel that most of the people talking about Shaw's potential as a world class fullback are basing their views on Football Manager.

He looks a decent enough player, but hardly a standout. Not to mention that he plays as a defender for an unglamourous team that I doubt many people watch often enough to get a true view of his consistency.

That said, I do actually want us to sign him because it's hard to believe the hype isn't at least partly justified. But some of the rhapsodising in this thread seems a little much to me.

£30m seems insane though, regardless of how good he becomes. He'll still only ever be a ruddy left back.

Sense.

Admittedly, I haven't seen very much of Shaw this season but what is so special about him? He was average during the 1-1 draw we had with Saints earlier in the season. I'm not saying he's rubbish, he looks a good enough defender and he will improve his sense of timing and positioning with age but £30 million...? That's ridiculous.

How much was Evra?

This is why so many top clubs shop abroad for talent. We could get a similarly talented left back for half the price if we went overseas. How much would Coentrao cost? £15-£20 million? This transfer adds to the sense that the people at the top of the club are totally clueless.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Bale was a good left back at Spurs when he eventually got a good run of games, my recollection is that his impressive attacking prowess from that position is what led to him being pushed further forward in the first place

 

[Blasphemy]

He looks a good young full back but I don't see £30m worth of talent there even though I'd be happy if we signed him.

 

[bishblaize]

He looks a good young full back but I don't see £30m worth of talent there even though I'd be happy if we signed him.

Yeah, pretty much sums it up. Personally I think the £30M includes the English Player Tax. If he were Swedish you'd be talking £10-15M for what we've seen so far.

At least you'll get 15 years of service is he develops into a good player.

 

[Varun]

Make sure you tell them to ignore people on the internet when they consult you about what to do next.

Dont be obtuse. My point is simple, there's no point talking with such conviction about what a fair price is for a player, specially when you know so little about the actual factors in the deal.

 

[Buchan]

Why the feck are people so hung up on transfer fees?

It's beyond bizarre.

 

[Ekeke]

Barcelona wouldnt have been nearly as successful without Dani Alves. Its more about how we'd use this £30 million fullback rather than fullback never being worth that much.

Personally I dont believe anyone will pay much more than £25 million for Shaw and he'd be a good signing at £20 million. Ricardo Rodriguez should go for the £30 million since he's well on his way to becoming the best leftback in the world and has the goals and assists to go with it like Alves did and Juan Bernat should be about £15 million

 

[Dante]

Dont be obtuse. My point is simple, there's no point talking with such conviction about what a fair price is for a player, specially when you know so little about the actual factors in the deal.

There was no conviction on fairness, just on the magnitude of the touted price. If we were to pay £50m for him I'd brush it off pretty quickly, but that wouldn't stop me from thinking it was crazy.

You obviously have a problem with people who actually care about transfer fees. I'm relatively nonplussed on the matter. You should probably have picked on someone else.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Sense.

Admittedly, I haven't seen very much of Shaw this season but what is so special about him? He was average during the 1-1 draw we had with Saints earlier in the season. I'm not saying he's rubbish, he looks a good enough defender and he will improve his sense of timing and positioning with age but £30 million...? That's ridiculous.

How much was Evra?

This is why so many top clubs shop abroad for talent. We could get a similarly talented left back for half the price if we went overseas. How much would Coentrao cost? £15-£20 million? This transfer adds to the sense that the people at the top of the club are totally clueless.

There's plenty of question marks over someone like Coentrao too for £20m. Poor injury record being one of them as well as not knowing if he's really up for it.

It's too much for Shaw but that's how it is. Moyes isn't going to come up with some new philosophy that turns us into a modern footballing side, so we're best off just paying for it. At least when he fecks off the new man will have a lot of good players to work with. And he's very marketable = £££ = happy Malcolm.

 

[united_99]

Why do so many of you behave as if we've got some stupid kid in charge of finances of the club who's sanctioning these deals on a whim without considering everything any of you could consider and more? People with much superior knowledge of the club finances and finance in general will either agree or disagree to pay 30mil on Shaw. If they do agree to do it, I dont understand the hue and cry here, they wont ask you to pitch in.

Fellaini? The club sanctioned the deal and hig wages after all, what if we spend ridiculous amount on 2 or 3 similar players (by that I mean not better than anything we have and a squad player at best), wouldn't you be worried? Of course it's not our money, but then why discuss it at all? If we are that rich, then no problem we wasted that much on Fellaini, if it doesn't work out we can try another expensive experiment and then another until it works out?

I can understand that it doesn't matter at all if we buy Vidal for 45 mil or 50 mil, or if Rooney is on 220 k or 260 k, who cares as the difference here is minimal anyway. But if the speculation is 35 mil fee and 85 k wages for an 18 year old when realistically you could get someone like Coentrao (a proven Portuguese international who has played at the highest Level and is still young) for 12 mil fee and on wages not much higher than we are reportedly offering Shaw, then of course fans have the right to be worried. The argument that we have financial experts running our club is of course true, but doesn't mean much if those same experts agreed to the Fellaini deal for example.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Barcelona wouldnt have been nearly as successful without Dani Alves. Its more about how we'd use this £30 million fullback rather than fullback never being worth that much.

Personally I dont believe anyone will pay much more than £25 million for Shaw and he'd be a good signing at £20 million. Ricardo Rodriguez should go for the £30 million since he's well on his way to becoming the best leftback in the world and has the goals and assists to go with it like Alves did and Juan Bernat should be about £15 million

They wouldn't have been, you're right about that and the fact that it's stupid to say a full back can't be worth £30m. Like Dante said though - is Shaw capable of doing what Dani Alves did so well for Barcelona? Let's not rewrite history here, when Barcelona bought Dani Alves he was already a key player of that successful cup winning side of Sevilla, where he had already shown he could be a right back, centre midfielder and right winger in the same game. Shaw is absolutely nowhere near that level yet, and I'm not sure he has it in him to ever reach it.

 

[united_99]

I'm not saying we shouldn't pay £30m. I just think it's an insane amount for someone of his standing. Just like £200m would be insane for Messi.

Generally speaking, I'm firmly in the "pay whatever it takes" camp.

That's the thing, I wouldn't have any problem paying over the odds for proven quality, but the fee + wages reported on Shaw are ridiculous, especially when Moyes hasn't shown yet that he is the right man to use his signings effectively.

 

[Varun]

There was no conviction on fairness, just on the magnitude of the touted price. If we were to pay £50m for him I'd brush it off pretty quickly, but that wouldn't stop me from thinking it was crazy.

You obviously have a problem with people who actually care about transfer fees. I'm relatively nonplussed on the matter. You should probably have picked on someone else.

I wasnt picking on you. If you'd noticed, I didnt even quote you. You chose to respond to my post which combined with your "30mil will be insane, he's just a ruddy LB" comment doesnt really fit with your supposedly nonplussed attitude on the matter.

Fellaini? The club sanctioned the deal and hig wages after all, what if we spend ridiculous amount on 2 or 3 similar players (by that I mean not better than anything we have and a squad player at best), wouldn't you be worried? Of course it's not our money, but then why discuss it at all? If we are that rich, then no problem we wasted that much on Fellaini, if it doesn't work out we can try another expensive experiment and then another until it works out?

I can understand that it doesn't matter at all if we buy Vidal for 45 mil or 50 mil, or if Rooney is on 220 k or 260 k, who cares as the difference here is minimal anyway. But if the speculation is 35 mil fee and 85 k wages for an 18 year old when realistically you could get someone like Coentrao (a proven Portuguese international who has played at the highest Level and is still young) for 12 mil fee and on wages not much higher than we are reportedly offering Shaw, then of course fans have the right to be worried. The argument that we have financial experts running our club is of course true, but doesn't mean much if those same experts agreed to the Fellaini deal for example.

You seem to be missing the point I was making. If a player X isnt United quality for me, I wouldnt want him even at a cut price. But when you do think a player is United quality, what the club pays to get him shouldnt be a big concern as people with more knowledge of the club finances, what we can afford etc and with better knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the transfer make the call. For instance, in this Shaw deal, for all we know, Chelsea have offered 30mil, so we either match it or find a new LB and considering Shaw's age and quality, the club has decided to go ahead.

Regarding the Fellaini but, seems you are someone who's never believed he was good enough or will be. So would you have been happy with the transfer if we'd got him for 15mil instead of 27?

 

[Dante]

I wasnt picking on you. If you'd noticed, I didnt even quote you. You chose to respond to my post which combined with your "30mil will be insane, he's just a ruddy LB" comment doesnt really fit with your supposedly nonplussed attitude on the matter.

I think the amount of money involved in the game nowadays is insane. But if £30m is what it takes, then so be it.

 

[SolidState]

There was no conviction on fairness, just on the magnitude of the touted price. If we were to pay £50m for him I'd brush it off pretty quickly, but that wouldn't stop me from thinking it was crazy.

You obviously have a problem with people who actually care about transfer fees. I'm relatively nonplussed on the matter. You should probably have picked on someone else.

In regards to your comments in this thread. I used to think the same ever since we were linked to him at the start of the season so I began watching Southampton.

Theres a key difference. Southamptons results have been unspectacular but their football has been nothing short of fantastic. They play the old United way with in-stepping wingers and controlled but penatrative passing in the middle.

Because their style lends itself to wing-play and in-stepping wingers, the full backs need to be fast, deadly and able to cross the ball. Luke Shaw possesses those traits and more. His tracking back is superb, against City he had the left flank covered and provided an amazing ability to run the wing.

I would say the most similar player ive seen compared to a young in-form Evra. The only thing he could develop is an eye for goal, he is more about the set up than Evra at the moment.

Now you take all this into account and then look at the market. How many talented young Left Backs are there out there that have those qualities without glaring downfalls. I can name one or two, then take into account his age 18, man this guy is super young and only getting better.

Look at how much teams have been looking at to get Januzaj, how much his potential is touted, imagine Januzaj with Shaw on the overlap. Not only that but in terms of national awareness for lack of a better word, the Manchester United future back 4 is 3/4 the England back 4.

All these factors tell me that Shaw is nothing short of a bargain even at 30m, give it a couple of years and people will be saying how much value we got from the move.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm not saying we shouldn't pay £30m. I just think it's an insane amount for someone of his standing. Just like £200m would be insane for Messi.

Generally speaking, I'm firmly in the "pay whatever it takes" camp.

200m is not insane for Messi at all. For one I think Real underpaid for Ronaldo. Messi and Ronaldo are different level to pretty much everybody else. Just for shirt selling and commercial standpoint is not something I'd call insane. On top of that Real get part of the image rights so it's money well spend if you ask me.

Having said that I pretty much doubt we'll sign him for the value it is touted around. Shaw is around 20m-25m and I think we should get him for that. And 20-25m for a left back who can play 10 years at top level is good long term investment.

 

[DWelbz19]

We were always going to need to fork out if we wanted him; City and Chelsea, and even Liverpool are going to be all over him too.

 

[Ekeke]

They wouldn't have been, you're right about that and the fact that it's stupid to say a full back can't be worth £30m. Like Dante said though - is Shaw capable of doing what Dani Alves did so well for Barcelona? Let's not rewrite history here, when Barcelona bought Dani Alves he was already a key player of that successful cup winning side of Sevilla, where he had already shown he could be a right back, centre midfielder and right winger in the same game. Shaw is absolutely nowhere near that level yet, and I'm not sure he has it in him to ever reach it.

Maybe he is capable, he's extremely young and already has flashes of superb quality in attack. He's already a good dribbler with a powerful frame and pace, which is a great combination and he puts a good ball into the box. He also finds a creative way to make a pass at times when the obvious route is blocked. But obviously as you'd expect of a teenager, its the consistancy that isnt there yet. They are just flashes and he's nowhere near the finished product.

More importantly he's already shown hes a very solid left back at premier league standard. At his age Dani Alves would have been torn to shreds.

 

[united_99]

I wasnt picking on you. If you'd noticed, I didnt even quote you. You chose to respond to my post which combined with your "30mil will be insane, he's just a ruddy LB" comment doesnt really fit with your supposedly nonplussed attitude on the matter.



You seem to be missing the point I was making. If a player X isnt United quality for me, I wouldnt want him even at a cut price. But when you do think a player is United quality, what the club pays to get him shouldnt be a big concern as people with more knowledge of the club finances, what we can afford etc and with better knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the transfer make the call. For instance, in this Shaw deal, for all we know, Chelsea have offered 30mil, so we either match it or find a new LB and considering Shaw's age and quality, the club has decided to go ahead.

Regarding the Fellaini but, seems you are someone who's never believed he was good enough or will be. So would you have been happy with the transfer if we'd got him for 15mil instead of 27?

Not even that, considering I don't even rate him higher than Cleverley I didn't think we needed a squad player at all in midfield, so considering we didn't even need him it's an insane money. But of course it would have hurt less if we only paid around 8-10 mil - even 15 mil for a squad player is way too much. Don't get me wrong, if a player is really good, I don't mind paying over the odds, but then he must be as good as RvP in his position (which means one of the best) or at least he must be the one who the manager considers vital to his plans (whereas in Fellaini's case Moyes even said we didn't buy him to play every game ). Since Moyes has been here we have had confirmed interest in Baines and Coentrao, now we are reportedly interested in Shaw. These are actually 3 players with a different profile (the only common thing is that they are left backs), but somehow Moyes is/was interested in all three. This tells me that Moyes still doesn't know why exactly he wants Shaw and how exactly will he fit into his non-existent system. Therefore paying 30 mil fee is a huge risk, whereas Coentrao would be a relative low risk with 12 mil fee and is actually the better player at the moment and still only 26.

 

[Ekeke]

What else did Real Madrid tell you when they told you they only want £12 million for Coentrao? If thats all they wanted we wouldnt have tried to loan him

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

One of the main things I've noticed is his ability to defend, how many top full backs are noted for their attacking ability? Or set pieces? I think Luke Shaw is pretty good defender for his age.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I was all up for Shaw but looking at the £30m+ price tag and seeing Juan Bernat play for Valencia, I think Bernat should be our top target. He is young, has good technique, is quick, has skills, can cross, pick out a pass, can tackle, tons of stamina and wont cost a bomb I dont think.

 

[united_99]

What else did Real Madrid tell you when they told you they only want £12 million for Coentrao? If thats all they wanted we wouldnt have tried to loan him

It was reliably reported that he was available for 12 mil, the loan bit was probably because he is not PL proven and therefore Moyes didn't know how it would work out. It is well-known that Moyes even waited till the very last hours to get the loan deal done so Madrid didn't have time to get their replacement.

 

[Blasphemy]

Why the feck are people so hung up on transfer fees?

It's beyond bizarre.

Our club has a finite amount of money no? If we spend £30m on Shaw we'll have less to spend in other areas.

 

[Varun]

Not even that, considering I don't even rate him higher than Cleverley I didn't think we needed a squad player at all in midfield, so considering we didn't even need him it's an insane money. But of course it would have hurt less if we only paid around 8-10 mil - even 15 mil for a squad player is way too much. Don't get me wrong, if a player is really good, I don't mind paying over the odds, but then he must be as good as RvP in his position (which means one of the best) or at least he must be the one who the manager considers vital to his plans (whereas in Fellaini's case Moyes even said we didn't buy him to play every game ). Since Moyes has been here we have had confirmed interest in Baines and Coentrao, now we are reportedly interested in Shaw. These are actually 3 players with a different profile (the only common thing is that they are left backs), but somehow Moyes is/was interested in all three. This tells me that Moyes still doesn't know why exactly he wants Shaw and how exactly will he fit into his non-existent system. Therefore paying 30 mil fee is a huge risk, whereas Coentrao would be a relative low risk with 12 mil fee and is actually the better player at the moment and still only 26.

That's what I dont get. Why does it hurt you more if we pay 27mil and less if we'd paid 15? You have nothing to do with the fee in any way. I can understand your fears concerning Moyes and it being him that spends the money this summer but then again, the concerns shouldnt simply go away if we agreed a deal at 25 rather than 30mil.

 

[Ekeke]

It was reliably reported that he was available for 12 mil, the loan bit was probably because he is not PL proven and therefore Moyes didn't know how it would work out. It is well-known that Moyes even waited till the very last hours to get the loan deal done so Madrid didn't have time to get their replacement.

? It was speculated.

Now, you're Real Madrid and a top club comes to you asking to buy a player you bought for 30 million euros plus Garay for 14 million euros. Why do you sell him? He's 26, on a long contract and the most expensive fullback you ever bought. You also need to sign someone to replace him. So why do you do it for less than half of what you paid for him?

Yeah reliably.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's the thing, I wouldn't have any problem paying over the odds for proven quality, but the fee + wages reported on Shaw are ridiculous, especially when Moyes hasn't shown yet that he is the right man to use his signings effectively.

Not sure what you're implying here? Are we going on the assumption that Moyes shouldn't be trusted to spend any money at all? Or he can spend a finite amount on any one player but no more than that? This would make the whole discussion about potential transfers insanely complicated. How about we discuss these players on the basis of whether or not they would be a good signing for Manchester United?

 

[united_99]

jeez, it's not that difficult, is it? They have Marcello and in case he gets injured or is suspended they want a replacement. A top class player like Coentrao will not be satisfied to be a replacement/2nd choice most of the time.

 

[united_99]

Not sure what you're implying here? Are we going on the assumption that Moyes shouldn't be trusted to spend any money at all? Or he can spend a finite amount on any one player but no more than that? This would make the whole discussion about potential transfers insanely complicated. How about we discuss these players on the basis of whether or not they would be a good signing for Manchester United?

In an ideal scenario, yes, absolutely! But not everything is black and white, so much less money on Coentrao, who is a better and very proven player (he was Portugal's best player when they played Spain in the WC 2010 and one of the main reasons the match only ended 1-0, and he was only 22 back then) is a very low risk compared to spending 30 mil on an 18 year old (with wages reported to be 85 k).

Regarding your suggestion about discussing if they would be a good signing for Manchester United, then Conentrao also fits the bill perfectly.

 

[Orc]

Chelsea fans still reckon that he's theirs if they want him. Saw one say they'd offer cash + Bertrand which seems reasonable. It makes just as much sense for them to want him as it does for us, but there's no way they'd pay £30m for him.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Chelsea fans still reckon that he's theirs if they want him. Saw one say they'd offer cash + Bertrand which seems reasonable. It makes just as much sense for them to want him as it does for us, but there's no way they'd pay £30m for him.

We could probably offer our 3rd choice left back if we had one. The fact is we're in dire need of a full back and everyone knows it. When it's all weighed up, Shaw is likely to settle here as well as anybody from another league and if it goes to plan will be England left back for a few years.

 

[BW.k]

Spoiler

He's a muppet like rest of us. Come on you Luke

 

[Orc]

We could probably offer our 3rd choice left back if we had one. The fact is we're in dire need of a full back and everyone knows it. When it's all weighed up, Shaw is likely to settle here as well as anybody from another league and if it goes to plan will be England left back for a few years.

They're just about in the exact same situation we're in. We both have old, past it LB's who likely won't be back next season. All they have to do is move the RB who's been playing at LB back to his natural position and there's a spot freed up for Shaw. Mourinho has expressed his desire to have English players in his team so it makes perfect sense to buy the young, English, Chelsea supporting LB who grew up idolizing Ashley Cole apparently.

Thing is, if we really are willing to pay an insane £30m for him than I think he's ours as I can't see anyone else paying that for him. Remember, Chelsea just bought one of the most sought after and highly rated young CB's in January in Kurt Zouma for only £12m or something like that. They seem to be trying really hard to fall in line with FFP, so there isn't a chance they pay that much for Shaw.

 

[Dante]

If this deal does go through, I'd expect the initial fee to be relatively small, with the addons making up the bulk of the headline figure.

 

[Ekeke]

jeez, it's not that difficult, is it? They have Marcello and in case he gets injured or is suspended they want a replacement. A top class player like Coentrao will not be satisfied to be a replacement/2nd choice most of the time.

He's under contract, hence he hasnt left and has been a backup. Nothing has changed.

 

[DWelbz19]

Spoiler

He's a muppet like rest of us. Come on you Luke

I don't see it on his actual twitter. Either fake, or he deleted it. Most likely fake.

 

[PlayerOne]

I don't see it on his actual twitter. Either fake, or he deleted it. Most likely fake.

No, it's real. I screenshot too, check the Twitter thread.

 

[Steven Seagull]

They're just about in the exact same situation we're in. We both have old, past it LB's who likely won't be back next season. All they have to do is move the RB who's been playing at LB back to his natural position and there's a spot freed up for Shaw. Mourinho has expressed his desire to have English players in his team so it makes perfect sense to buy the young, English, Chelsea supporting LB who grew up idolizing Ashley Cole apparently.

Thing is, if we really are willing to pay an insane £30m for him than I think he's ours as I can't see anyone else paying that for him. Remember, Chelsea just bought one of the most sought after and highly rated young CB's in January in Kurt Zouma for only £12m or something like that. They seem to be trying really hard to fall in line with FFP, so there isn't a chance they pay that much for Shaw.

Ivanovic has done a pretty impressive job at RB and Mourinho loves him. £30m is probably what Southampton are demanding, rather than Chelsea pushing the price up.

Whatever happens we're likely going to have to pay at least 20% over the odds this summer, so why not do it for the most promising English full back since Cole himself? Seems the most obvious choice to me. Unless there's loads of Evra's floating around for £8m.

 

[M'n'M]

I'll stick my neck out and say he'll not sign for United for no other reason than he will be wanted by other clubs who can offer CL football.

I may of course be wrong.